BLU spells

General gear BLU (TP set) using MM RR and Apoc:
Quad: 1395, 1466, 850, 1426 EFCA: 3500
A. Spikes: 1861, 1266, 1840
Barbed Crescent: 851, 503
Wind Breath: 523, 635
Thunder Breath: 2192, 2392, 2172, 2453
Vapor Spray: 1048, 1195, 1186
Tourbillion: 957
Bloodrake: 830
Terror: Load of crap
Pyric: Doesn't even work
TB + 1 hp atma = 3057
From that
A. Quad seems weak for it's set and spell cost
B. Pyric Bulwark doesn't even work lol
C. Terror doesn't land on NMs (least Heqet resisted, intentional?)
D. Tourbillion's far too weak for a special 5min timer spell

General thoughts:
Thunder breath seems a very nice spell but has a harsh damage scale on NMs (~2.4k on Spiders in Mis, ~900 on Athamas).
Wind breath is nice for it's MP cost.
Tourbillion, bit weak and it's add effect didn't even seem notable.
Quad is a bit weak for 5 set points, doesn't seem worth it.
A. Spikes seems fairly decent, it apparently chains with CDC to do Darkness according to the BLU I was with.
Vapour Spray seems good also, if maybe slightly weak for it's MP cost.
Bloodrake, I did it at full HP (because I failed to read the drains HP bit lel) but if it's 100% HP conversion it could be pretty good in a pinch.
Pyric Bulwark didn't work (no effect message iirc).
Terror resisted.
Ain't tried the others yet.

-Rawr

Quad is quite good actually its an spell equivalent of cdc so i found it pretty nice blooddrake is indeed a 100% hp conversionso its just awesome, terror about for 30 secs but nms probably resist it anyway so nice try i guess, i wish i had an idea on vaporspray poison dmg also, orcsh counter stance seens to be a 10% counter but this is just eyeballed assumption with no counter trait and little test (might be more might be less) and it stacks with mnk counterstance, as for pyrric im trying to make it work too used about 5 times without sucess i may be starting to think that there either is some special condition for it to work or it just plain sucks in acc i will try to use one on red hp to check if it has something to do with it

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Originally Posted by Smokenttp

Quad is quite good actually its an spell equivalent of cdc so i found it pretty nice blooddrake is indeed a 100% hp conversionso its just awesome, terror about for 30 secs but nms probably resist it anyway so nice try i guess, i wish i had an idea on vaporspray poison dmg also, orcsh counter stance seens to be a 10% counter but this is just eyeballed assumption with no counter trait and little test (might be more might be less) and it stacks with mnk counterstance, as for pyrric im trying to make it work too used about 5 times without sucess i may be starting to think that there either is some special condition for it to work or it just plain sucks in acc i will try to use one on red hp to check if it has something to do with it

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Quad's weaker than A.Spikes (which is both less set points and less MP), at 5 set points and 98? MP I think it was there's much better options out there.

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Originally Posted by RaenRyong

Quad's weaker than A.Spikes (which is both less set points and less MP), at 5 set points and 98? MP I think it was there's much better options out there.

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Indeed, and it has a crap spell bonus.

well no luck with pyrric as of now and as for quad indeed there are better options but by no means its a bad spell

More tests:
GOH: 1023 Burn seems mildly potent.
Bilgestorm: 331
~30% attack drop and ~37% Def down.
A. Spikes at 300% TP: 1806
A.Spikes CAEFF300%: 4440
Nuke set:
GOH MM/Ultimate/Smould. Sky: 2527
TB 3 HP atma Mavi Tath/Mirage Head: 4395
WB 3 HP atma Mavi Tath/Mirage Head: 1098
Vapor Spray MM/Ult/Nox. Fang: 1061, 1222 on higher HP.
VS 3 HP atma Mavi Tath/Mirage Head: 2197
(HP with 3 atmas on = 3822 HP)
Vapor Spray is a breath despite ingame text not stating so.

Outside Abyss:
Quad: 1477
Barbed: 475
A. Spikes: 1405
WB: 396
TB: 1588
VS: 807
Tourb: 1226
Bilge: 304
Bloodrake: 920
(My hp = 1538 HP)
Mob target: Torama in Onzozo

Data I've gathered:

Quadrastrike
Deals moderate to severe physical damage and can crit while under the effect of either Chain Affinity or Efflux.

Vapor Spray
HP/2. Poison unknown (presumably broken, I couldn't get it to land a single time).

Thunder Breath
100% of HP = damage

Orcish Counterstance
1 Minute duration, 10% +/- counter (approx., still need to parse it), no reduction of defense and a separate effect from Counterstance.

Amorphic Spikes
Deals around the same damage as Quadratic Continuum, if not slightly more, and makes Darkness with CDC.

Wind Breath
HP/4

Barbed Crescent
Decent damage, decent range(NOT a true ranged attack). Accuracy down effect is -30 accuracy for 2-3 minutes.



Unbridled Learning spells:

Absolute Terror
Lasted about 20 seconds. Seems to share the same resistance properties as Jettatura i.e. will not land on any NMs.

Gates of Hades
5fTP, 1.0dINT, 20% STR/DEX, the burn effect is 21HP/tic with a -45 INT down effect to go with it.

Tourbillion
Moderate to severe physical damage along with a 33% DEF down effect that lasts for roughly 2-3 minutes.

Pyric Bulwark
Broken at the moment, cannot test.

Bilgestorm
Low physical damage along with a 25% Attack and DEF down as well as an untested ACC down.

Bloodrake
Moderate to severe physical damage that drains HP to the caster for the same amount as damage done.


I'd like to formally thank you SE for giving us some worthwhile stuff here. While some of these are somewhat underpowered and will likely be underused (speaking about the Unbridled learning spells, of which only two or so can be expected to be worth it in the end anyway as they share the same 5 minute cooldown) they'll all have a use somewhere, which is more than I can say about most of our arsenal.

After testing these and playing with them for a while, I can safely say that I am happy with where they are. I do sincerely hope that you do not change these for the worst. They're balanced enough as is, and are wonderful additions to any BLU's repertoire.

To people for some reason suggesting that Quadrastrike is not a good spell: it will allow us to deal at least a little damage to higher level NMs, and is balanced enough in that it cannot crit without the aid of Job Abilities to where it (hopefully) won't be nerfed to all hell like Heavy Strike was. Furthermore, calling Skillchain Bonus a crap trait is preposterous.

I also heftily disagree with your assessment on Tourbillion, it's a fantastic spell. You won't find a stronger defense down effect.

Also not sure what your method for testing the ATK and DEF down on Bilgestorm was, but it's highly inaccurate.

It was quick eyeballing, ain't got any solid way of testing it fully on the test server. Hence the ~ on it D:
Tourb just seems meh to me, not brilliant damage, and knowing SE the Def down prolly won't even land on anything worthwhile. And if Quad can only crit with job abilities than my opinion of it is even worse. A.spikes seems to do more under the influence of CA/Eff.
If you want to go get some numbers on some worthwhile NMs, go ahead. For now I'm not even gonna consider the spell.
Vapor Spray I didn't notice the poison, but it could be very weak. Didn't keep mobs alive long enough to wait for it to wear.

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Originally Posted by RaenRyong

Tourb just seems meh to me, not brilliant damage, and knowing SE the Def down prolly won't even land on anything worthwhile.

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It's one of our most powerful spells if the defense down remains at 33%. Yes, it is most certainly 33%, my testing method is completely accurate, and exists on any server ever.

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And if Quad can only crit with job abilities than my opinion of it is even worse. A.spikes seems to do more under the influence of CA/Eff. If you want to go get some numbers on some worthwhile NMs, go ahead. For now I'm not even gonna consider the spell.

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Your loss, I guarantee that quadrastrike will be superior on most NMs due to crits. If you know how blue magic works, you'll know why. My testing suggests a 40~50% crit rate with Efflux and Emp+2 pants (150TP).

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Vapor Spray I didn't notice the poison, but it could be very weak. Didn't keep mobs alive long enough to wait for it to wear.

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The poison effect does not land, there's nothing to notice. Tested on rabbits in Ronfaure, which have 33 HP, even 1/tic would be noticeable.


Edit: Some numbers as requested.

Hahava

Quadrastrike: w/ CA+EFF 752, w/ EFF 601, 722, no JAs 558 (this one was during Raksha, was kind of bizarre, I'm chalking it up to a set proc for now)
Amorphic Spikes: w/ CA 218, 272, 316
Barbed Crescent: 164, 166 (ACC down landed)
Bloodrake: 178, 337 (drain didn't proc ofc)
Tourbillion: 455 (DEF down landed)
Wind Breath: 293 (-50% from Yaksha)

For comparison,

Vanity Dive: 241
Heavy Strike: 668, 639

Again, the crits pull it ahead, very far ahead, on serious targets.

Do you have to have Counter on for Orcish Counterstance to work? Because I tried it wasn't seeing any counters at all the whole time. And that's 3 straight tries.

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Originally Posted by Absit

Do you have to have Counter on for Orcish Counterstance to work? Because I tried it wasn't seeing any counters at all the whole time. And that's 3 straight tries.

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It has a pretty low rate of ~10% and a relatively low duration too, so it's well within possibility that you just happened to lose a bunch of imaginary dice rolls over the course of those three minutes.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

It has a pretty low rate of ~10% and a relatively low duration too, so it's well within possibility that you just happened to lose a bunch of imaginary dice rolls over the course of those three minutes.

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also keep in mind that counter is based on your accuracy, so if, for whatever reason, your accuracy sucks, your counter rate will suffer. In that same vein of thought, if the monster can't touch you, you can't counter it, because counter check comes after evasion/parry/shadow checks.

Does orcish-counterstance lower your MDB like it does for the orcs?

Well...they added all the animations...but that's about it. Pyric Bulwark is still broken and unless Vapor Spray poison lasts forever the effect still isn't there. Why put a spell in that doesn't work? If the spell isn't ready for mass testing LEAVE IT OUT.

Okay, final rundown of Skillchain properties:

Quadrastrike=Impaction/Liquifaction
Amorphic Spikes=Gravitation/Transfixion
Barbed Crescent=Distortion/Scission
Bilgestorm=Darkness/Gravitation
Tourbillion=Light/Fragmentation
Bloodrake=Darkness/Distortion

It appears the Thunderbreath has been nerfed to 66% of hps.

As someone who plays blue mage extensively, at this new %, I will never use this spell.

100% = Strong, very useful (not overpowered by any means)
80% = Situationally servicable spell
66% = Garbage spell, will be used as often as Mortal Ray

As it stands, of all our breath spells, now Windbreath will be the only usable spell (low MP cost, casting time for solid damage with a great build).

The drawback SE might be forgetting about is that to achieve good damage on breaths you have to #1) Have a specific build which overlaps with nothing else (alot of inv space) #2) The right race/HP merits #3) Enough HP to actually cast the spell (ie if you pull hate and get hit, you need more support than say a blm to repeat the same damage #4) Additionally, to get good damage you cant cast other magical nukes without a gear swap (which kills your build and needs support to get back to good damage).

As an added anti-bonus, many Notorious Monsters already resist breath spells vigorously.

Oh, and don't forget that the range of breaths is less than stellar. While only a few Blue Magic spells have the normal magic range of 20+, this seems noteworthy because being hit by an Area of Effect thing will affect breath damage.

I can't figure out why they reduced the power of a spell that already had plenty of drawbacks.

Don't want Blu useful on anything higher than VT obviously.

Well, I was having high hopes for potent poison on water vapor. guess I can dream on... SE really needs to re-evaluate a lot of blu spells.

We already have the most potent non-helix DoTs there are, one of them being a poison effect that is far cheaper than Vapor Spray. Was more hoping that these breaths would actually be useful for their damage rather than any stupid added effects tacked on.

For reference:
Disseverment - 22/tic poison (3m duration)
Cold Wave - 22/tic frost (30s duration)
Gates of Hades - 21/tic burn (2.5m duration)

Was hoping for something extreme dot really... Something to compete with the old thunder breath. doubt either thunder breath or water vapor will be of much use though unless they make an nm for them.

has anyone noticed that pyric bulwark wears off after the first hit... sure it hit for 0 but the pot was only doing 32 ish normally... thats a really low amount of damage to absorb.... or is it more it absorbs 1 hit regardless of how much damage it would do?

Absorbs one physical attack regardless of how much damage it does.