[dev1042] Paladin spells

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11-18-2011, 06:48 AM
Zumi

[dev1042] Paladin spells

It would be nice for Paladins to get 'Shell V' somewhere on the way to 99. It's not really game braking or anything its nice to be able to do your own shell spells and not have to use a lower level.
11-18-2011, 07:35 AM
Daniel_Hatcher

I'm actually surprised they never got it too be honest. They got Protect V.
11-18-2011, 08:46 AM
Neisan_Quetz

They never got Shell IV at 75 cap either, so this is actually expected for SE. Not that it made sense back then either.
11-18-2011, 09:54 PM
Psion

I'm guessing their idea is that paladin is a blood tank, and although they are aligned with divine protection like white mage, they aren't as "specialist" in divine protection against magic as a white mage would be, being more aligned with divine protection against physical damage.

Or something.

I'm not the dev team, don't shoot me! /hides
11-19-2011, 07:01 AM
Zumi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

They never got Shell IV at 75 cap either, so this is actually expected for SE. Not that it made sense back then either.

Yes I realize this. It was stupid back then, and its stupid now. Paladins can learn a high level White Magic spell Holy 2 but not Shell V?
11-19-2011, 09:07 AM
Economizer

Not exactly trying to argue against Paladin getting Shell V or whatever, but some numbers and whatnot:

The difference between Shell IV and Shell V is ~3%. The difference between Shell V and a 5/5 Shellra V is also ~3%. Phalanx will net you very roughly >3% damage resist on a 1000 damage hit. Basically, if you are soloing, you can match a Shell V in most cases.

All this said, unless you are soloing, if a ~3% difference in damage is significant enough to matter to you (Shell IV to V) then shouldn't you bring a White Mage with relevant merits?

Of course, a complete spell list might be more relevant then numbers statements to those who posted this thread - in which case no numbers statements will change anyone's mind, even if that's what I was trying to do (I'm not).
11-22-2011, 05:24 AM
Camate

Sorry to say, but we do not have any plans for paladin to learn Shell V.
11-22-2011, 05:43 AM
Hayward

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camate

Sorry to say, but we do not have any plans for paladin to learn Shell V.

*Aims a rubber chicken in Camate's direction*
11-22-2011, 06:33 AM
Thala

This isn't exactly the most devastating news. I don't remember the last time I had PLD in a party with a job that didn't have Shell V. But...why? I can't come up with any logical or balancing reason as to why PLD should not get the spell at 99...
11-22-2011, 06:40 AM
Leonlionheart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camate

Sorry to say, but we do not have any plans for paladin to learn Shell V.

Good. This is white.
11-22-2011, 08:06 AM
Deadvinta

The developers have no true concept how to make the players happy if they won't add a simple spell such as Shell V to the Paladin's white magic list.

Square Enix Final Fantasy XI Development Team, give me some solid feedback. Give me five solid reasons why you cannot and will not give them this spell.
11-22-2011, 09:24 AM
Neisan_Quetz

1. Pld doesn't need it
2. Bring an actual healer if Pld needs it
3. If fighting something you don't need an actual healer for, Pld doesn't need it
4. See number 1
5. Did I mention Pld doesn't need it already?
11-22-2011, 11:59 AM
Juilan

Its up there with giving everyone but whm higher cure spells despite the fact cure iv gives a disproportionately low cure at this point in time.
If it wasn't for my whm account I couldnt tank anything on pld because cure iv would never keep me alive after I take a monster's weapon skill...
11-22-2011, 12:18 PM
Neisan_Quetz

That sounds like a personal problem and not a Paladin one imo.
11-22-2011, 12:33 PM
Daniel_Hatcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thala

This isn't exactly the most devastating news. I don't remember the last time I had PLD in a party with a job that didn't have Shell V. But...why? I can't come up with any logical or balancing reason as to why PLD should not get the spell at 99...

Capping MDT with an Aegis and Shell V, stupid, but this is probably SE's logic.
11-22-2011, 01:04 PM
Neisan_Quetz

You could do that without Shell V with Aegis.
11-22-2011, 01:15 PM
Economizer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

Capping MDT with an Aegis and Shell V, stupid, but this is probably SE's logic.

Aegis actually ignores (and is independent of) the MDT cap if I'm not mistaken.
11-22-2011, 01:26 PM
Neisan_Quetz

I'm fairly certain he's aware of that; what I was referring to is capping Magic damage taken for Aegis only (you can't go to 100% and I've heard conflicting reports; it either caps at -87.5% or -90% damage taken, either one is doable by Pld with Shell IV).
11-23-2011, 03:39 AM
Darkzeru

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadvinta

The developers have no true concept how to make the players happy if they won't add a simple spell such as Shell V to the Paladin's white magic list.

IMO there's no FULL way to make players happy....in fact i don't even know why people think that every time someone isn't happy with something that it needs to be changed...

Like others have said they don't "need" it......that's what healer jobs are for..... partially....

They tend to have their reasons behind their actions whether we agree with them or not....
11-23-2011, 07:34 AM
Daniel_Hatcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

I'm fairly certain he's aware of that; what I was referring to is capping Magic damage taken for Aegis only (you can't go to 100% and I've heard conflicting reports; it either caps at -87.5% or -90% damage taken, either one is doable by Pld with Shell IV).

Assuming lvl 99 will be 50% on Aegis wouldn't that only make 71%? That said gear would allow it to go higher anyway.
11-23-2011, 07:44 AM
Neisan_Quetz

Formula is

Magic Damage You Take = Floor( (Magic Damage you would have Taken)×(100% (-% Magic Damage Taken -% Damage Taken) -% Aegis Magic Damage Taken )÷( 1 + MDB/100 ) )

Can reach 90% with Aegis 90, but I've heard it's capped at 87.5%.
11-23-2011, 07:48 AM
camaroz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

1. Pld doesn't need it
2. Bring an actual healer if Pld needs it
3. If fighting something you don't need an actual healer for, Pld doesn't need it
4. See number 1
5. Did I mention Pld doesn't need it already?

Pld doesn't need Holy2 but they're getting it.
11-23-2011, 07:56 AM
Neisan_Quetz

Quote:

Originally Posted by camaroz

Pld doesn't need Holy2 but they're getting it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camate

Sorry to say, but we do not have any plans for paladin to learn Shell V.

Nope.jpeg, get over it.
11-23-2011, 08:21 AM
Daniel_Hatcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Formula is

Magic Damage You Take = Floor( (Magic Damage you would have Taken)×(100% (-% Magic Damage Taken -% Damage Taken) -% Aegis Magic Damage Taken )÷( 1 + MDB/100 ) )

Can reach 90% with Aegis 90, but I've heard it's capped at 87.5%.

Ah, fair enough then.
11-23-2011, 08:33 AM
Atomic_Skull

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadvinta

The developers have no true concept how to make the players happy if they won't add a simple spell such as Shell V to the Paladin's white magic list.

Square Enix Final Fantasy XI Development Team, give me some solid feedback. Give me five solid reasons why you cannot and will not give them this spell.

Same reason only THF gets base treasure hunter higher than 3. Yes giving everyone everything would make a lot of people happy, but it would also ruin a lot of jobs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thala

I can't come up with any logical or balancing reason as to why PLD should not get the spell at 99...

Because they have Aegis.
11-23-2011, 08:36 AM
Atomic_Skull

double post, ignore.
11-23-2011, 11:41 PM
Hayward

It's amusing how some people will say anything to justify aspects of certain jobs being underpowered for fear of them becoming "overpowered". From Red Mages' melee ability to Paladins' ability to effectively defend themselves and do enough damage in the process, this silly talk seems to have "protect (restore in the case of RDM) my job's bandwagon status at any cost".
11-24-2011, 01:56 AM
Seiowan

Is anyone else finding it amusing that hard-to-obtain harder-to-upgrade relics are being toted as the sole reason for not giving Paladin's Shell V? Even though someone already mentioned that they can apparently hit the cap without it? Even though they can just get a WHM's fully merited Shell V in a group and get the same bonuses?

There are tons of overpowered soloists in the game, Paladin is rarely mentioned as being amongst them. Let's at least be realistic here.
11-24-2011, 02:44 AM
Alhanelem

Quote:

Because they have Aegis.

Because Aegis is totally within the typical player's reach.
11-24-2011, 02:51 AM
Darkwizardzin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Because Aegis is totally within the typical player's reach.

.....and another player casing shell V on you is not?

last time I had checked this was a teamwork based game.
11-24-2011, 02:59 AM
Brolic

Why is this even a thread?
11-24-2011, 03:29 AM
Zumi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brolic

Why is this even a thread?

Why you ask? Its the feedback forum and I am giving them my feedback on how I think Paladins should get Shell V.
11-24-2011, 03:40 AM
Darkwizardzin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zumi

Why you ask? Its the feedback forum and I am giving them my feedback on how I think Paladins should get Shell V.

Well I wouldn't drag this on for too long... SE has clearly stated they aren't going to give them the spell.

I't be more constructive to give feedback on something that will make a difference.
11-24-2011, 05:50 AM
Hayward

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkwizardzin

.....and another player casing shell V on you is not?

last time I had checked this was a teamwork based game.

By "teamwork", I suspect you mean cronyism.

After 7 years of playing and being a native Chicagoan, yes I am that cynical.
11-24-2011, 06:46 PM
Theytak

"Plds can't have this!"
"Why not!"
"Because Aegis!"

Argumentum ad absurdum

Not that I really care if I can cast shell V on myself, given that for anything that matters I'll have a whm's fully merited shell V on me, which would overwrite my shell V anyway. But hey, I'm a galka pld. I don't have enough mp to cast Raise, let alone Holy II. (Yes, I'm exaggerating at this point, but sadly, I have 8 mp merits and I sit around 300 MP WITH 1~2 pieces of mp gear....)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayward

By "teamwork", I suspect you mean cronyism.

After 7 years of playing and being a native Chicagoan, yes I am that cynical.

Chicago? Please. Try living downstate, in central IL. -_-

Anywhere that isn't Chicago is pretty much completely ignored by Springfield 90% of the time. That said, I completely understand and agree with your view point, as I've also been playing this game for 7 years and am from the same state as you.
11-24-2011, 07:14 PM
Economizer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theytak

Not that I really care if I can cast shell V on myself, given that for anything that matters I'll have a whm's fully merited shell V on me, which would overwrite my shell V anyway. But hey, I'm a galka pld. I don't have enough mp to cast Raise, let alone Holy II. (Yes, I'm exaggerating at this point, but sadly, I have 8 mp merits and I sit around 300 MP WITH 1~2 pieces of mp gear....)

If I'm not mistaken, Shell V overwrites Shellra V and Shellra V overwrites Shell V (and Shellra 1/5 overwrites Shellra V 5/5). Also, (not that this matters much either) Holy II costs as much as Raise does, and not an MP more.
11-25-2011, 12:06 AM
Ophannus

Shell V isn't even THAT much of an improvement over Shell 4 and PLD historically in FF games has always had an 'incomplete' spell list anyway. I'd like for SE to focus more on Divine Magic for PLD not Enhancing Magic like how DRK specializes in Dark Magic and not Elemental Magic. They should really make PLD get Banish III and other strong enhancing/nuking Divine Spells since these are meant to combat the undead which is PLD's specialty, not WHM's which is healing/enhancing.
11-25-2011, 11:18 AM
Alhanelem

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkwizardzin

.....and another player casing shell V on you is not?

last time I had checked this was a teamwork based game.

I think someone totally failed to detect the sarcasm here. Yet the one who failed to comprehend gets all the likes... funny...
11-25-2011, 05:42 PM
Theytak

Quote:

Originally Posted by Economizer

If I'm not mistaken, Shell V overwrites Shellra V and Shellra V overwrites Shell V (and Shellra 1/5 overwrites Shellra V 5/5). Also, (not that this matters much either) Holy II costs as much as Raise does, and not an MP more.

Don't make me choose between Raise and Holy II, man, I can't cast both! If I did, it would leave me spiritually exhausted and unable to properly flash my junk at monsters so that they attack me in the seething, foaming-at-the-mouth rage that ensues upon seeing an unwanted galkan sausage.
11-26-2011, 02:46 PM
camaroz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Nope.jpeg, get over it.

I dont care one way or the other. you said pld doesnt need shell 5, i simply stated a fact about holy2

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