Scholar Outside VS Inside Abyssea

Does anyone notice a HUGE difference? I absolutely love my Scholar outside of Abyssea. I feel like my mp conservation (Dynamis KS99 HNMs -- old school stuff) by far makes up for my inability to heal as well as a WHM or nuke as well as a BLM. But as soon as I step inside of Abyssea where MP seems to no longer be an issue this is where I feel like I fall behind drastically. Does anyone else notice this?

i can pretty much outnuke any blm outside of abyssea still.... (unless their totally insane emperyan set bonus kicks in) inside it gets a tad bit imbalanced due to the introduction of beyond, and sch not having access to blizzard 5

I don't mind Black Mage being a better nuker or White Mage being a better healer, that is the way it's mean to be. My only issue with Scholar in Abyssea is it's completely worthless when it comes to procing !!. Scholar has nothing unique for it and when you're low man and Scholar isn't even that great anyway, it really makes the job suffer. I never understood why Helices weren't able to proc the spell weakness, or after last update t1 Skill Chains would have even worked.

Mp is no longer an issue outside of abyssea either, it just requires support.

Inside abyssea the mnk + whm duo game. You have up to 5/tic on the whm himself. Up to 20/tic on atma for 25/tic.


You can get more WITH support, but it's never needed.

Now outside of abyssea, that rdm that was no longer useful in abyssea. Refresh II +7 w/ rdm af3+2.

Bard w/o Ghorn can get +2 ballad. Ballad II w/ +2 is 4 MP/tic. Ballad III w/ +2 MP is 5/tic = 9/tic.

9 + 7 + 5 = 21 mp/tic outside of abyssea.

It went a little unnoticed because all that stuff came out at the same time as abyssea, but let's say we get new content outside of abyssea, which without atma, is going to require support, we still have our abyssea levels of refresh on our whms.

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Originally Posted by hideka

i can pretty much outnuke any blm outside of abyssea still.... (unless their totally insane emperyan set bonus kicks in) inside it gets a tad bit imbalanced due to the introduction of beyond, and sch not having access to blizzard 5

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Further proof that scholar needs to be nerfed, not adjusted up. The Blizzard V issue will be fixed with the next level cap rise, and scholar will once again overpower black mage. I suppose you think that is ok, but yet most do not think its ok to over power white mages? Again I ask, why should scholar ever over power a specialist, and why is it ok for scholars to want to outnuke black mages? How can anyone not think Dark Arts don't deserve a nerf?

I am a BLM and a SCH and I certainly do not outnuke myself on SCH versus my BLM. Inside of Aby no SCH won't come close enough without the intelligent use of immanence to create SCs (and then a BLm can just MB on the SCs to increase the own dmg yet again). But trying to built SCs has it's limitation that most melees will just WS in between more often than not.
If MP isn't an issue as BLM, casting speed is even faster than a SCHs and enmity can be wiped out (only every 10 minutes though) a SCH cannot outnuke a BLM if they have even atma effects. But outnuking is just not what a SCHs is for. I don't want to outnuke my BLM. I want to be able to nuke hard enough to be worthwhile, while supporting the party. Supporting it by using weather spells to increase BLMs dmg, building SC or turn around and buff melees with whatever.

SE should just start lifting the need of addendum:black for T4s.

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Originally Posted by Siiri

Further proof that scholar needs to be nerfed, not adjusted up. The Blizzard V issue will be fixed with the next level cap rise, and scholar will once again overpower black mage. I suppose you think that is ok, but yet most do not think its ok to over power white mages? Again I ask, why should scholar ever over power a specialist, and why is it ok for scholars to want to outnuke black mages? How can anyone not think Dark Arts don't deserve a nerf?

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Its not that SCH needs to be nufed, more so BLM needs to be fixed. Before abyssea BLM was worthless due to being mp damage and sch was let in on the fun because of cure IV. Now you have the blm/whm and nin duo for seals or an abyssea tanks job wtih brd or blu, whm and blm.
yes SCH can outnuke blms, spell for spell, but at a slower rate amd dont have stuff like manawall. what happens when SCH gives weather to a blm? its like COR for melee, it can buff it self and others to do damage.

I do not think it was meant for SCH to be the slower, stronger nuker then blm, I think SE is a bit backwards on the balance of sch and blm atm.

st bonus for blm is stupid
first you need a conserve mp proc then a 10% ish chance for the double damage right?

.25*.10=.025 or a 2.5% chance of a proc, that is retarded.

I think all the set bonuses are too low, but more so for blm.

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Originally Posted by Crossarius

I am a BLM and a SCH and I certainly do not outnuke myself on SCH versus my BLM. Inside of Aby no SCH won't come close enough without the intelligent use of immanence to create SCs (and then a BLm can just MB on the SCs to increase the own dmg yet again). But trying to built SCs has it's limitation that most melees will just WS in between more often than not.
If MP isn't an issue as BLM, casting speed is even faster than a SCHs and enmity can be wiped out (only every 10 minutes though) a SCH cannot outnuke a BLM if they have even atma effects. But outnuking is just not what a SCHs is for. I don't want to outnuke my BLM. I want to be able to nuke hard enough to be worthwhile, while supporting the party. Supporting it by using weather spells to increase BLMs dmg, building SC or turn around and buff melees with whatever.

SE should just start lifting the need of addendum:black for T4s.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...out-SCH./page5

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I said this before on a different fourm as well, it would go though the line like around RDMs have them:

stone IV should read:
BLM 68/ RDM 77
SCH 70 ( Addendum black) SCH 76.
keep going like that for the other IV spells

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I never did understand why SE didn't do that

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Originally Posted by Siiri

Further proof that scholar needs to be nerfed, not adjusted up. The Blizzard V issue will be fixed with the next level cap rise, and scholar will once again overpower black mage. I suppose you think that is ok, but yet most do not think its ok to over power white mages? Again I ask, why should scholar ever over power a specialist, and why is it ok for scholars to want to outnuke black mages? How can anyone not think Dark Arts don't deserve a nerf?

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you should also have to consider the level of preparation that a sch has to do to achive those digits, where as a blm has ZERO preparation to put out the same digits.

Windstorm
Parsimony
Klimaform
Ebulience
Gearswaps for specific situations (MP levels, storm status, DInt effectiveness levels)
Nuke

where as blackmage is just
Gearswaps
Nuke.

oh and not to mention blms are pretty much 100% parsimony mode at all times.

also, my T5 aeros do as much as a blm's blizzard V's outside abyssea in relatively comprable gear,

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Originally Posted by hideka

you should also have to consider the level of preparation that a sch has to do to achive those digits, where as a blm has ZERO preparation to put out the same digits.,

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Pressing macros isn't hard.

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Originally Posted by hideka

also, my T5 aeros do as much as a blm's blizzard V's outside abyssea in relatively comprable gear,

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Again, nerf Scholar. They shouldn't be anywhere close to black mage. Job balance is very broken with the existence of scholar.

There is actually a wind damage atma (Atma of Gales, to be specific). Try adding that along with/instead of a Beyond and then see if an Aero V can match a BLM's Blizzard V.

Even with the atma of the gales aero V shouldn't be able to match a BlizzV. Beyond not only gives Ice potency +30% but MAB+30 while atma of the gales has only wind potency +30 on it. You are sacrificing some damage from an MAB Atma to gain more DMG from the potency atma, while using mostly ice nukes as BLMs gives you both MAB and Ice potency in one atma + Baying Moon (+30) or Ultimate for +50 and MM for refresh and INT+50.
Ontop is blizzard V's base dmg higher than aero V's

It can be closer but matching it could be a stretch.
Also I agree that a BLM does have a much easier time nuking as the job is not bound to special conditions and possibilities to alternate spells into higher potency/less MP cost etc. It is in fact point and nuke, the rest being gear swaps. Occassionally checking on mana wall and enmity douse reuse timer and you're good to go.

Simply pressing macros does not cover the thought you need to put into stratagem charges and how to use them, klimaform/weather timers and so forth. Simply said: nuking on SCH requires at least somewhat more thought and effort than it does on BLM. That's a fact.

Oh and rambus I know you said the same about T4 nukes. I just like repeating this request in hope for SE to read it. I'll try to do it the mellowy-way and keep mentioning it.

Atmas should not be figured in when comparing nukes.

1. Scholar will soon have Blizzard V and will be out damamging black mage again.
2. The game will be moving outside of abyssea past 90. People are ignoring the fact that scholar needs to be nerfed by using the fake argument that abyssea with atmas proves anything or matter, or act like scholar will never be getting Blizzard V.

The point is Scholar is not a better healer than white mage regardless of how many macros they press, the should also NEVER outnuke a black mage. Why is this so hard to understand. They should have tier 5 nukes taken away from them as the easiest solution to this.

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Originally Posted by Siiri

Atmas should not be figured in when comparing nukes.

1. Scholar will soon have Blizzard V and will be out damamging black mage again.
2. The game will be moving outside of abyssea past 90. People are ignoring the fact that scholar needs to be nerfed by using the fake argument that abyssea with atmas proves anything or matter, or act like scholar will never be getting Blizzard V.

The point is Scholar is not a better healer than white mage regardless of how many macros they press, the should also NEVER outnuke a black mage. Why is this so hard to understand. They should have tier 5 nukes taken away from them as the easiest solution to this.

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No. Scholar is meant to be White Mage and Black Mage. That's the damned definition of the job. It shouldn't be better than them both, but it should reach a damn close level of balance with the two, having a hybrid job that can't hold a flame to the jobs it's a hybrid of just makes it completely worthless (as it currently is when it tries to be White Mage). This is exactly why they gave Scholar tIV nukes way back when it was the most pathetic job in the game.
Pretending Scholar vs Black Mage is unbalanced is ridiculous. People claiming to out damage Black Mages are playing with some god awful Black Mages. Black Mage nukes faster, harder, can do it for less enmity gain, has access to -aga/-jas which have always kept it from being replaced (Black Mage -ja spam for Azure Light farm is far better than anything else, except maybe Red Mage Chainspell spam).
Dark Arts is pretty damn balanced. Everything Black Mage has access to, Scholar can have access too. Stronger nukes with Ebullience (which is meant to make Scholars damage closer to Black Mages) and Addendum: Black, faster nukes with Alacrity, less enmity gain with Equanimity, etc. etc. That's pretty balanced considering its meant to be a stand in for Black Mage, if anything is broken, it's Black Mage. Why you think nerfs are the only way to adjust the game is beyond me. If Black Mage is lacking in damage (like I highly doubt when they have access to far more MAB and not to mention AFv3 proc), they just need a bonus to damage. Considering Scholar cannot compare to White Mage at all at the moment, making it exactly the same in regards to Black Mage would be the dumbest thing ever. That's not balance, that's just making one job completely worthless.

Please, the only issue with white mage vs scholar is inside abyssea, which is soon to be a dead event after next update. Outside scholar always had crazy endurance and I know from players in my linkshell who had scholar and white mage they prefer healing on scholar for most events, even at 75. Although the lack of haste was an issue there. Scholar is one spell (Cure V) from making white mage obsolete for everything.

All I see on forums is scholars bragging about how the out damage black mages. hideka said in this thead that he outnukes black mages outside of abyssea. I never have personally seen a scholar out nuke my black mage, but its all over every forum with screen shots, bragging, etc. A nerf is just the easiest way to do it. A job, like scholar is too strong, nerf please. Its the MMO way. Possibly give something back to scholar, maybe Tier 2 storms and Tier 2 helixes and take away Tier 5 nukes. Seems fair.

If a hybrid is too close what's the point for the main jobs. If scholar can replace a black mage and a white mage at the same time with basically no negatives why even have the black mage and white mage jobs? That was the state of the game at 75, I am just trying to prevent it from being the norm at 99.

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Originally Posted by Siiri

Please, the only issue with white mage vs scholar is inside abyssea, which is soon to be a dead event after next update. Outside scholar always had crazy endurance and I know from players in my linkshell who had scholar and white mage they prefer healing on scholar for most events, even at 75. Although the lack of haste was an issue there. Scholar is one spell (Cure V) from making white mage obsolete for everything.

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Oh please. Even if Abyssea does become a dead event, have you ever for a second thought new events might be similar?
Cure V on Scholar with proper enimty gain would be far from broken, regardless. If I main heal on Scholar, enmity is actually an issue, White Mage has zero issues with hate gain because Cure V/VI are otherwise broken spells, not to mention a numver of other aspects of the job. If Scholar had Cure V with enmity gain greater than Cure VI, I would never spam it the same way White Mage can. That would just be a fast route to getting myself killed. Cure V on Scholar would be nothing more than a spell to use when the shit hits the fan, which is a spell Scholar desperately needs for curing. Cure IV is pathetic when even NMs outside Abyssea (I'm thinking WoE) can deal way more damage than Cure IV heals.

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Originally Posted by Siiri

All I see on forums is scholars bragging about how the out damage black mages. hideka said in this thead that he outnukes black mages outside of abyssea. I never have personally seen a scholar out nuke my black mage, but its all over every forum with screen shots, bragging, etc. A nerf is just the easiest way to do it. A job, like scholar is too strong, nerf please. Its the MMO way. Possibly give something back to scholar, maybe Tier 2 storms and Tier 2 helixes and take away Tier 5 nukes. Seems fair.

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So what you're saying is, no one out damages you but you want them nerfed anyway? Ok, goodbye. You can quit trolling this forum now.
Even if Scholar is doing more damage, that's either not a problem or a problem with the whole game. Black Mage still nukes faster and thus deals more DoT and it's a problem with the game because the state of the game currently makes Ebullience (the only way a Scholar will ever deal more damage) the only worthwhile Stratagem to use, making the whole strategic aspect of the job rather redundant.
Oh and t2 Helices would be way more powerful than tV nukes. t1 Helices are already damn close (mine average 5k in total).

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Originally Posted by Siiri

If a hybrid is too close what's the point for the main jobs. If scholar can replace a black mage and a white mage at the same time with basically no negatives why even have the black mage and white mage jobs? That was the state of the game at 75, I am just trying to prevent it from being the norm at 99.

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1) Scholar cannot do White Mages job and Black Mages job at the same time. That's the whole point of Light/Dark Arts.
2) There are plenty of negatives, I believe I already mentioned some. -aga/-jas have always meant Black Mage was needed for any event with multiple mobs (Dynamis) or any NM with adds (JoL). Then there's the whole point of Stratagems.
3) Assuming SE continues with !! procs, all jobs (except Scholar) pretty much have solid purposes.
4) Buffing White Mage (hell no) and Black Mage (maybe) is still a far better alternative. Stop trolling.

If Scholar truly did threaten Black Mage and White Mage at any stage in FFXIs history, it would have become the mage bandwagon job. It didn't. It hasn't. Stop complaining.

I never asked to buff white mage. I think White mage is fine. I do think Cure V should be exclusively white mage property though. At least the way it exists. I can buy arguments remove the enmity down if given to scholar etc. That would be fine, but Cure V as is would break Scholar compared to white mage. Plenty of people agree with that, its hardly trolling. If SE is taking any of this seriously, which they are probably not, I feel that I need to keep putting thoughts like this out there as not to over power Scholar further.

Scholar and red mage tend to be endurance healers outside of abyssea, where as white mages are end game healers where barspells, cure v, capped shellra merits etc matter. Because of mp recovery issues white mages were passed over for other mages in bird parties etc. How will 91-99 be? I don't know, but it needs to be brought up. SE mentioned that game balance will be worked on to 99, so they will still be adjusting jobs and white mage could fall behind again.

As for black mage vs scholar, obviously we disagree. I will continue to advance the idea that T5 spells make scholar overpowered. With the increase in Stratagems scholar is never out of them, and can ebullience every spell. With the ridiculous changes to sublimation, they also never run out of mp. This will be an issue outside of abyssea. An ebullience spell outnukes a black spell, and scholar has infinite charges and mp. This isn't about personal experience, its math.

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Originally Posted by Siiri

Pressing macros isn't hard.



Again, nerf Scholar. They shouldn't be anywhere close to black mage. Job balance is very broken with the existence of scholar.

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Sure and while we're at it lets nerf 12 melee jobs so they cant even come close to the best phys DD.

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Originally Posted by Raksha

Sure and while we're at it lets nerf 12 melee jobs so they cant even come close to the best phys DD.

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That is totally different. Scholar is a "hybrid" job that has both white and black mage functions. It should not be more powerful than the specialist. Melees are irrelevant to this discussion.

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Originally Posted by Siiri

As for black mage vs scholar, obviously we disagree. I will continue to advance the idea that T5 spells make scholar overpowered. With the increase in Stratagems scholar is never out of them, and can ebullience every spell. With the ridiculous changes to sublimation, they also never run out of mp. This will be an issue outside of abyssea. An ebullience spell outnukes a black spell, and scholar has infinite charges and mp. This isn't about personal experience, its math.

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Buffing Black Mage is still a far better option. Though buffing 11k nukes seems ridiculous.

Scholar got tIV nukes for a reason. If Scholar was released now with a similar spell set as it had when it first was (a weak copy of Red Mages, so tIVs included this time), they would give it tVs for the exact same reason.

Black Mage is much more of an endurance nuker than Scholar. Endurance in the sense that I will eventually have to stop nuking so as not to pull hate, while Black Mage can just wipe clean its hate. Adding something like that is a much better way to balance the two. Making Scholar a completely pathetic nuker is not.

Stop coming in the Scholar forum and complaining about Black Mage. If there is an issue with Black Mage nuking weaker, go in the Black Mage forum and ask for them to address that issue. You can even say "nerf Scholar" there, coming here and saying it and expecting anyone to agree with you is completely stupid. Though some how I expect more Black Mages will agree with me saying buff the job rather than agreeing with nerfing another job.

I am in the scholar forums to counter the argument that scholar needs to be buffed. That is the only reason I am here, and I am allowed to post anywhere I want. I will continue to argue my points in any buff scholar thread.

Good luck with that, troll.

A correction: Atma of Gales is +40 wind potency, not +30. I don't know if that is enough to make up for the loss of +30 MAB, but still, something to consider.

The thing about making SCH not stand up to BLM or WHM is that it promotes the cookie cutter party setup that SE has been trying to push off to the side. Yes, one setup will always do better than other setups based upon situation. However SCH allows that cookie cutter mold to be broken just a bit. We can stand in for a BLM or WHM, allowing a group to continue on when either your current BLM or WHM dies/DC's/Ragequits and you need that nuke or heal to keep you going.

It's the mage equivalent of the PLD|NIN tank dilemma SE's been fighting for years. We simply need something that will do in the absence of something better. We SCH's pride ourselves in filling that role to the best of our abilities. We just want more ability.

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Originally Posted by Siiri

Please, the only issue with white mage vs scholar is inside abyssea, which is soon to be a dead event after next update. Outside scholar always had crazy endurance and I know from players in my linkshell who had scholar and white mage they prefer healing on scholar for most events, even at 75. Although the lack of haste was an issue there. Scholar is one spell (Cure V) from making white mage obsolete for everything.

All I see on forums is scholars bragging about how the out damage black mages. hideka said in this thead that he outnukes black mages outside of abyssea. I never have personally seen a scholar out nuke my black mage, but its all over every forum with screen shots, bragging, etc. A nerf is just the easiest way to do it. A job, like scholar is too strong, nerf please. Its the MMO way. Possibly give something back to scholar, maybe Tier 2 storms and Tier 2 helixes and take away Tier 5 nukes. Seems fair.

If a hybrid is too close what's the point for the main jobs. If scholar can replace a black mage and a white mage at the same time with basically no negatives why even have the black mage and white mage jobs? That was the state of the game at 75, I am just trying to prevent it from being the norm at 99.

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I don’t know about your LS or anything but i find that statement ignorant. I have all jobs leveled and I always refuse to main heal on SCH. the closest it gets to that is a support cure and support buffing job. I was once in a convo when abyssea was new people use 2 whms in a tank party. I said there is no point of that, if anything a whm and a sch is better then 2 whm.

that is because you can buff tank with stoneskin, phalanx and aquaviel.

If SCH gets cure V ( and it should, like i said before its progress, you need to progress all aspects of the game otherwise your still on the cap 75 mind set. FYI FFXI is still cap 75 or has that feel, SE has not properly broke all the caps and concepts that only fit for 75). I will be the same way, if you want me be main heal I am going WHM/SCH.
WHM officers best healing per second spam and damage migration ( bar spells, bar spell gear that makes them even more incredible and shell V merits).
You take V spells from SCH then you are back to what SCH was pre update, a useless job that is second to red mage, so trying to nerf the damage of SCH nuking by taking away V spells is not the answer.
Saying I want to heal on SCH over WHM because I save more mp is ignorant.

As for damage, what about COR? Cor has been a DD/support and doing extraordinary extorny damage from buffing them selfs along with others. SCH base nuking is not stronger then BLM, it only gets that way though buffing and it takes time to do that.

You really have to understand when SCH say they can outnuke BLM its on an Ebullience and klimaform+ emp boots +2.

The recast is too long and the duration is really short.

you have to understand SCH is getting+ 10% bonus from weather, +30% with Ebullience + emp hat+2, and +10 with emp +2 boots and klimaform.

like I said when people are saying they outnuke blms they do not mean all the time, they are just saying that THEY CAN outnuke BLM because of the above buffs.

I am a bit shocked you are not compaling about other jobs doing better AoE damage then a BLM.

I don't think SCHs are broken, they are the Jack of all trade master of none. I think their Balance in enfeebling and Cures and Nukes are fine.

I do notice that I never use Sublimation in Abyssea unless I am fighting a mob that likes to use Sleepga because my MP is never a problem in abyssea. I think SCHs do so well with nukes now is because SE gave us some love and put a ton of MAB Magic Accuracy and crit gear, by the way that Savant's gown +2 is pretty nice.

So, after reading through three pages of Siiri tooting his/her horn like a bad prom date, I still have yet to read any concise reason as to why he/she thinks SCH shouldn't have the capacity to out-damage BLM. The only thing I see is, "Blah, blah, blah, people bragging..." or "Blah, blah, blah, I can't compete so nerf please...". BLM has Elemental Celerity, Mana Wall and Enmity Douse plus it can /SCH and use Parsimony and Alacrity or /RDM and have Convert and Fast Cast available. What are you complaining about? You know that Abyssea isn't the only aspect of the game, right? My NIN can out-damage BLM or SCH with ninjutsu in Abyssea, should that be nerfed, too?

Instead of crying like a child, why don't you invent some new methods to improve BLM instead of spewing out facetious, trite crap to detract from the glory of SCH?

The issue is that scholar is a hybrid. The hybrid shouldn't be better at the job than the specialist, or the specialist has no function. Its generally accepted in these thread that white mage should be a better healer than scholar, so I am asking why people think scholar should out damage black mage? If scholar does more damage, than flips and cures, supports, etc job balance could be over turned. Plenty of other people have made similar points with the curing aspect, I am just saying the nuking aspect may be a problem post abyssea once scholar gets Blizzard V in addition to the increase in Strategem they recently got, and the last sublimation update. My reasoning is general game balance, nothing more or less.

Discussing a topic isn't crying, not sure why I am accused of this when plenty others have argued against scholar getting Cure V. Is it because I am questioning dark arts which is most players favorite?

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Originally Posted by Siiri

The issue is that scholar is a hybrid. The hybrid shouldn't be better at the job than the specialist, or the specialist has no function. Its generally accepted in these thread that white mage should be a better healer than scholar, so I am asking why people think scholar should out damage black mage? If scholar does more damage, than flips and cures, supports, etc job balance could be over turned. Plenty of other people have made similar points with the curing aspect, I am just saying the nuking aspect may be a problem post abyssea once scholar gets Blizzard V in addition to the increase in Strategem they recently got, and the last sublimation update. My reasoning is general game balance, nothing more or less.

Discussing a topic isn't crying, not sure why I am accused of this when plenty others have argued against scholar getting Cure V. Is it because I am questioning dark arts which is most players favorite?

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just because a job is a hybrid, it does NOT mean it has to be weaker then one of the jobs it is taking from. whats the point in having a hybrid job, that cant utilize its hybridism to its fullest potential at all times, and preforms under that of another job? play ANY other MMO, hell most any rpg, and youll see that all hybrid jobs preform on par in some way shape or form to any and all single purpose jobs, thus preserving the balance of the game. theres no point in bringing a hybrid job when it is not going to utilizie its hybrid capabilities at all times and to its fullest extent, UNLESS it is able to utilize ONE portion of its hybridism to preform on par with a sole role class.

Funny thing... I actually took a stroll into BLM's thread because of Siiri's bickering. Not a single complaint about SCH outnuking them has been said, nor was there any complaint about the job, beyond hopeful spells that BLM can actually expect to get (tIV-Gas, Meteor, etc.) Heck, there is even a thread talking about their damage potential and how 5k dmg on blizz 5 is the bottom of the barrel and 10k is actually quite common. I'd lose my mind in joy if I even hit 7k with a nuke as un-buffed as they are.

On the flip side, SCH's have given nothing but advice and constructive criticism on our job abilities and spells (as well we should with our intuitive nature). The general consensus is that we are ok where we are at now but sometime in the next 9 levels our roles will fall to the wayside if they are not handled properly.

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Originally Posted by Delvish

...and 10k is actually quite common...

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I've read the same threads and I don't think anyone is saying that breaching 10,000 damage is "quite common". It takes proper equipment, Atma choices and the AF3+2 set bonus activating (which doesn't occur at what I would call a reliable rate). However, the potential is there for BLM to do insane amounts of damage... there's no questioning that. That's neither here nor there, though.

the blm AF3 set can actually be manipulated quite easily, as Conserve MP is calculated the second your cast starts, not when it finishes. so you could have on like +50 conserve MP, giving you a 50/50 chance to proc CM, and then im assuming the full af3+2 is 50% chance to proc, giving you a 25% chance to proc.... so yea... its a weeeeeeee bit over powered, all SCH got was quick magic, and its only really useable as healer SCH, since only one-two pieces are used for nuking, but all can be used as a healer.

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Originally Posted by hideka

the blm AF3 set can actually be manipulated quite easily, as Conserve MP is calculated the second your cast starts, not when it finishes. so you could have on like +50 conserve MP, giving you a 50/50 chance to proc CM, and then im assuming the full af3+2 is 50% chance to proc, giving you a 25% chance to proc.... so yea... its a weeeeeeee bit over powered, all SCH got was quick magic, and its only really useable as healer SCH, since only one-two pieces are used for nuking, but all can be used as a healer.

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Head, Body, Hands and Feet are all usable for nuking. Hands and Feet may be a minor damage reduction assuming you don't have Klimaform up, though I've had the timer for Klimaform at less than its duration since before I knew we'd get Haste so I'd say Feet win. The Hands are a difference of 5MAB vs 9INT which seems ignorable to me, they certainly win if you've not got DDs around to ruin self Skill Chains. Legs are the only thing that are worthless for nuking, I really wish they were more like AFv2 hands with MND and INT.

head is 1000000% situational, and prevents you from utilizing ANY form of INT or MAB in your head slot whenever you want to use ebullience, the mechanic should be modified to only needing to be on when the abilitiy is activated. Hands: 8 INT is WORTHLESS inside of abyssea, and only good for helicies outside (and we all know schs totally use helicies when manaburning~!). feet are actually INCREDIBLY good, as sch dosent get access to much if any MAB on the foot slot (i may be mistaken, as im lazy and still havent picked through every single piece of new gear for every single job).

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Originally Posted by Siiri

The issue is that scholar is a hybrid. The hybrid shouldn't be better at the job than the specialist, or the specialist has no function. Its generally accepted in these thread that white mage should be a better healer than scholar, so I am asking why people think scholar should out damage black mage? If scholar does more damage, than flips and cures, supports, etc job balance could be over turned. Plenty of other people have made similar points with the curing aspect, I am just saying the nuking aspect may be a problem post abyssea once scholar gets Blizzard V in addition to the increase in Strategem they recently got, and the last sublimation update. My reasoning is general game balance, nothing more or less.

Discussing a topic isn't crying, not sure why I am accused of this when plenty others have argued against scholar getting Cure V. Is it because I am questioning dark arts which is most players favorite?

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see:

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Originally Posted by Rambus

I don’t know about your LS or anything but i find that statement ignorant. I have all jobs leveled and I always refuse to main heal on SCH. the closest it gets to that is a support cure and support buffing job. I was once in a convo when abyssea was new people use 2 whms in a tank party. I said there is no point of that, if anything a whm and a sch is better then 2 whm.

that is because you can buff tank with stoneskin, phalanx and aquaviel.

If SCH gets cure V ( and it should, like i said before its progress, you need to progress all aspects of the game otherwise your still on the cap 75 mind set. FYI FFXI is still cap 75 or has that feel, SE has not properly broke all the caps and concepts that only fit for 75). I will be the same way, if you want me be main heal I am going WHM/SCH.
WHM officers best healing per second spam and damage migration ( bar spells, bar spell gear that makes them even more incredible and shell V merits).
You take V spells from SCH then you are back to what SCH was pre update, a useless job that is second to red mage, so trying to nerf the damage of SCH nuking by taking away V spells is not the answer.
Saying I want to heal on SCH over WHM because I save more mp is ignorant.

As for damage, what about COR? Cor has been a DD/support and doing extraordinary extorny damage from buffing them selfs along with others. SCH base nuking is not stronger then BLM, it only gets that way though buffing and it takes time to do that.

You really have to understand when SCH say they can outnuke BLM its on an Ebullience and klimaform+ emp boots +2.

The recast is too long and the duration is really short.

you have to understand SCH is getting+ 10% bonus from weather, +30% with Ebullience + emp hat+2, and +10 with emp +2 boots and klimaform.

like I said when people are saying they outnuke blms they do not mean all the time, they are just saying that THEY CAN outnuke BLM because of the above buffs.

I am a bit shocked you are not compaling about other jobs doing better AoE damage then a BLM.

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Please understand this, BLM base nuking is WAY better then SCH, I cannot help SCH is not buffing your BLM with weather. Point of SCH bragging is so show what they CAN do with thier buffs. SCH brag because we are tired of being called gimp or useless.

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Originally Posted by hideka

head is 1000000% situational, and prevents you from utilizing ANY form of INT or MAB in your head slot whenever you want to use ebullience, the mechanic should be modified to only needing to be on when the abilitiy is activated. Hands: 8 INT is WORTHLESS inside of abyssea, and only good for helicies outside (and we all know schs totally use helicies when manaburning~!). feet are actually INCREDIBLY good, as sch dosent get access to much if any MAB on the foot slot (i may be mistaken, as im lazy and still havent picked through every single piece of new gear for every single job).

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what?

hands and feet are ok for nuking, not the best, not the worst, feet are amazing when you do Klimaform.
I use maat's cap when not ebullience.

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Originally Posted by Raksha

Sure and while we're at it lets nerf 12 melee jobs so they cant even come close to the best phys DD.

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Originally Posted by Siiri

That is totally different. Scholar is a "hybrid" job that has both white and black mage functions. It should not be more powerful than the specialist. Melees are irrelevant to this discussion.

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NIN was meant to be a debuffer/light DD, SHIT CHANGES. NIN shouldn't be able to tank as well as PLD, let alone BETTER. WAAAAAAH nerf NIN.

SCH doesnt need to be nerfed, in fact Dark Arts is fairly robust, and I have ZERO problems with it. Light Arts is what needs the work.


When you consider abyssea the problems become obvious. SCH is USELESS in Abyssea. Can't cure like a WHM, can't trigger weaknesses like a BLM, can't survive like a BLM, can't AOE like a BLM, can't buff/debuff like a RDM or BRD.



P.S. Would've replied earlier but i dont take my token w/ me to work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hideka

head is 1000000% situational, and prevents you from utilizing ANY form of INT or MAB in your head slot whenever you want to use ebullience, the mechanic should be modified to only needing to be on when the abilitiy is activated. Hands: 8 INT is WORTHLESS inside of abyssea, and only good for helicies outside (and we all know schs totally use helicies when manaburning~!). feet are actually INCREDIBLY good, as sch dosent get access to much if any MAB on the foot slot (i may be mistaken, as im lazy and still havent picked through every single piece of new gear for every single job).

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No.

Its situational? So is 90% of FFXI.
If you're not going to use Ebullience, then yes bonnet is crap. That goes without saying. If you are, and lets face it most of the time you are, +10% damage is the best option.

Hands are worthless? +10% to Skill Chain damage, which as far as I know doing two nukes for a Skill Chain already out damages two Ebullience nukes (though that's not to say you can't use Ebullience with Immanence) regardless, yeah that's completely worthless. Heck, you don't even need to do two nukes, just work out a Skill Chain you can close with the DD. I say work out a Skill Chain with the DD, but of course I mean you work it out and then leech their Weapon Skills.

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Originally Posted by Sotek

No.

Its situational? So is 90% of FFXI.
If you're not going to use Ebullience, then yes bonnet is crap. That goes without saying. If you are, and lets face it most of the time you are, +10% damage is the best option.

Hands are worthless? +10% to Skill Chain damage, which as far as I know doing two nukes for a Skill Chain already out damages two Ebullience nukes (though that's not to say you can't use Ebullience with Immanence) regardless, yeah that's completely worthless. Heck, you don't even need to do two nukes, just work out a Skill Chain you can close with the DD. I say work out a Skill Chain with the DD, but of course I mean you work it out and then leech their Weapon Skills.

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I asked someone to play with me like that to make sure it works like it should, and it does.

I love how there can be a discussion such as this when here are the facts...(taken directly from wiki)

Sch Magic Skill Ratings (Dark Arts)

Skill Ranking Cap at 90
Dark Magic
B+ 341
Divine Magic
D 280
Elemental Magic
B+ 341
Enfeebling Magic
B+ 341
Enhancing Magic
D 280
Healing Magic
D 280

Magic Skill Ratings
Skill Ranking Cap at 90
Elemental Magic
A+ 361
Dark Magic
A- 354
Enfeebling Magic
C+ 315
Enhancing Magic
E 255

The numbers don't lie, sch even with dark arts still should not be able to outnuke a blm. However, I recall reading somewhere once that sch are not mages at all but "battlefield tacticians" meaning that they should only be used to "fill a void". A sch that is being used with all those buffs to outnuke a blm is leaving it's timers maxed, or near maxed, rendering it useless if it needs to switch to light arts and toss a few cures. Still, this is a game where we have the freedom to mold our jobs the way we want to and use them as we like. And eversince day 1, people have not played jobs the way SE intended. I think we can all agree on this.

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Originally Posted by Ruvion

I love how there can be a discussion such as this when here are the facts...(taken directly from wiki)

Sch Magic Skill Ratings (Dark Arts)

Skill Ranking Cap at 90
Dark Magic
B+ 341
Divine Magic
D 280
Elemental Magic
B+ 341
Enfeebling Magic
B+ 341
Enhancing Magic
D 280
Healing Magic
D 280

Magic Skill Ratings
Skill Ranking Cap at 90
Elemental Magic
A+ 361
Dark Magic
A- 354
Enfeebling Magic
C+ 315
Enhancing Magic
E 255

The numbers don't lie, sch even with dark arts still should not be able to outnuke a blm. However, I recall reading somewhere once that sch are not mages at all but "battlefield tacticians" meaning that they should only be used to "fill a void". A sch that is being used with all those buffs to outnuke a blm is leaving it's timers maxed, or near maxed, rendering it useless if it needs to switch to light arts and toss a few cures. Still, this is a game where we have the freedom to mold our jobs the way we want to and use them as we like. And eversince day 1, people have not played jobs the way SE intended. I think we can all agree on this.

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The only thing you just pointed out was that BLM has 20 skill levels of Elemental Magic over SCH. We all know how useful that is. A SCH that is utilizing all of the stratagems available to deal obscene magic damage was probably not included in said party to be a healer, anyway. If you need someone to toss a few cures, get a WHM or RDM to do it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ruvion

I love how there can be a discussion such as this when here are the facts...(taken directly from wiki)

Sch Magic Skill Ratings (Dark Arts)

Skill Ranking Cap at 90
Dark Magic
B+ 341
Divine Magic
D 280
Elemental Magic
B+ 341
Enfeebling Magic
B+ 341
Enhancing Magic
D 280
Healing Magic
D 280

Magic Skill Ratings
Skill Ranking Cap at 90
Elemental Magic
A+ 361
Dark Magic
A- 354
Enfeebling Magic
C+ 315
Enhancing Magic
E 255

The numbers don't lie, sch even with dark arts still should not be able to outnuke a blm. However, I recall reading somewhere once that sch are not mages at all but "battlefield tacticians" meaning that they should only be used to "fill a void". A sch that is being used with all those buffs to outnuke a blm is leaving it's timers maxed, or near maxed, rendering it useless if it needs to switch to light arts and toss a few cures. Still, this is a game where we have the freedom to mold our jobs the way we want to and use them as we like. And eversince day 1, people have not played jobs the way SE intended. I think we can all agree on this.

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What is your point? we need addendum: Black to cast spells that a C+ elemental skill job can do freely.
so what if a SCH can outnuke a BLM? BLU can too but the question is how often? like i said here:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rambus

As for damage, what about COR? Cor has been a DD/support and doing extraordinary extorny damage from buffing them selfs along with others. SCH base nuking is not stronger then BLM, it only gets that way though buffing and it takes time to do that.

You really have to understand when SCH say they can outnuke BLM its on an Ebullience and klimaform+ emp boots +2.

The recast is too long and the duration is really short.

you have to understand SCH is getting+ 10% bonus from weather, +30% with Ebullience + emp hat+2, and +10 with emp +2 boots and klimaform.

like I said when people are saying they outnuke blms they do not mean all the time, they are just saying that THEY CAN outnuke BLM because of the above buffs.

I am a bit shocked you are not compaling about other jobs doing better AoE damage then a BLM.

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base nuke SCH does not outnuke a BLM, it only gets to that point though buffs and guess what? SCH can make SCs for BLM to MB, and give weather to BLM as well.

like i said to Siiri , we brag about stuff we can do because it gets old being called useless.