Ichi over Ni at high level

Why are we still getting an Ichi version of new ninjutsu ?

I know Ichi come before Ni but honestly... using Kakka: Ichi, is a lose on TPgain because while we cast we're not doing any melee damage.

Why keep the Ichi 4s cast version for High lvl ? if it's just a matter of Ichi come first then why not release them for lower level and add a :Ni version on higher level ?

And so we could get Monomi: Ni, Migawari: Ni, Jubaku: Ni (why the hell you don't want to add it, just give a Ni version with the same potency as Ichi, everyone will be still glad), etc...

Every update we only get Ichi scroll, that making them (for some of them, pretty useless).

Ichi is 1, Ni is 2. there is no point to adding a second verion of the newer spells, (aside from monomi/jubaku) what you're really wanting is a faster cast time on the new spells no?

the only spell that should've stayed lvl 1 that we got a lvl 2 of was tonko. because of that spell, we need a monomi 2 too match recast/duration.

as for migawari ni, the thought of that would reduce the balance and lower the skill required to play ninja below its current requirements, and just steal the fun out of the job.

I know what Ichi and Ni are.

They're going to add Kakka: Ichi, store TP bonus, to gain more TP, but the fact is, by the high casting time, it's become a jutsu that "lowering" your TPgain.

What i wan't is.. yes... a 1.5s casting time on the news spell, atleast thoses that are not powerfull. A Ni version is just a second version of the tools, there is no need to change the potency, adjust the casting time is probably enough.

If it were up to me, the ninjutsu above 75 would be more evenly distributed between levels 48 and 75, and their Ni versions would be roughly the same level as their Ichi spells are now. But alas, SE's philosophy on balance eludes me.

Blue mages get Terror Touch at level 40, which is effectively Aisha that does some damage. Yurin is situational, being most effective on non-evasion tanks. Myoshu is just freakin' subtle blow, which is often capped. But I can see Migawari on separate cooldown timers being an issue. If Migawari: Ichi and Ni used the same timer, then that shouldn't be much of a problem. That's about it, though. And I can't see much of an issue with an equally potent Jubaku spell, just on a faster cast time.

Getting ichi versions of these spells is incredibly annoying because they have 4 hour cast times, making them not worth the time it takes to cast them 99% of the time :/

I'd like to think there's some higher plan at work, but there are only nine levels left and spells with horribly long cast times are still coming out. I guess this is just an oversight on part of some bro on the development team, unless the grand plan is for Ni versions as level 99 merits.

Either way, I'm not optimistic.

they could easily add say.. ninjutsu casting time -X% as a new merit catagory, this would solve many issues here. and w/ utsusemi probably near the cap with proper gear already, it could be balanced very effectively. or add a static - casting time to yonin/innin ( or a JT)

i dont see spells comin in ni form due to the ability to cast in succession, same reason its unlijely we'll ever see utsusemi: san. if you could cast the current ichi spells in 1/4th the time with proper gear/merits, would you? would it give you more incentive to cast them?

So many missing :ni spells... and at this point I doubt we're gonna see any during the 95>99 level cap :(

Kakka
Yurin
Myoshu
Migawari
Monomi
Dokumori
Jubaku

I can probably understand Migawari, but all the others should definitely get a Ni version (and Myoshu should give a special subtle blow bonus that goes beyond the SB cap, otherwise that too is close to useless in most situations)

Yeah, any decent NIN is going to have 50% subtle blow with af3+2 boots auspice :/

Nin gets nice spells, be very happy with them. As for the ichi only, i assume that it's to keep balance (although i do find the monomi suspect since tonko has a ni version) in that 1. players must choose when those ichi spells are important enough to be cast and 2. I feel the ichi spells like subtle blow, etc., are mostly used before a fight (buffs) and usually lasts a few mobs before recasting (abyssea) and lasts for most of a single fight outside abyssea (except hnm of course). We have to choose when and which ichi spells are worth the tp trade off during a fight. After all, we are not mages so its just nice to have those ichi spells available to us. As for Migawari, that's a prime example of an ichi spell i feel SE wants us to take a tp lose for because its a great spell thats cast during the the entire fight if it's needed (unlike your decision to cast or not cast a buff like subtle blow, Migawari if it's needed has to be cast and the tp lose is acceptable for such great results). Look at Nin's damage output, its spell assortment, and it's tanking ability. All round fantastic. There's a reason youtube has video's of Nin/Dnc soloing V.T. hydra mobs in Dynamis Beaucedine at 90 and making it look easy, and the solo Faffy Nin fight.

I think SE made Kakka: 'Ichi' so you would use it while not engaged.

K... so high level BLM spells you get after 50 should always end in II like "Tornado II" then?

You assume that there will be a second line to this spell. The Store-TP you receive from this will already reduce your number of hits to 100tp by at least 2, possibly 3.

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Originally Posted by Concerned4FFxi

Nin gets nice spells, be very happy with them. As for the ichi only, i assume that it's to keep balance (although i do find the monomi suspect since tonko has a ni version) in that 1. players must choose when those ichi spells are important enough to be cast and 2. I feel the ichi spells like subtle blow, etc., are mostly used before a fight (buffs) and usually lasts a few mobs before recasting (abyssea) and lasts for most of a single fight outside abyssea (except hnm of course). We have to choose when and which ichi spells are worth the tp trade off during a fight. After all, we are not mages so its just nice to have those ichi spells available to us. As for Migawari, that's a prime example of an ichi spell i feel SE wants us to take a tp lose for because its a great spell thats cast during the the entire fight if it's needed (unlike your decision to cast or not cast a buff like subtle blow, Migawari if it's needed has to be cast and the tp lose is acceptable for such great results). Look at Nin's damage output, its spell assortment, and it's tanking ability. All round fantastic.

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If making a decision between two ninja spells is their idea of a "tough decision," then it's pretty poor. If that is suppose to be a mechanic, the effects need to be greater to cause greater polarity in decision making. Aisha is worthless because you don't get hit enough for it to matter. Yurin is worthless because you don't get hit enough for it to matter. Myoshu is worthless because your subtle blow should be damn near capped by default. Migawari is the only thing that might cause balance problems. Not because of the cast time, but the fact that you'd have it on two timers if there was a Ni version. If there were two timers, you'd be able to keep Migawari up almost indefinitely.

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Originally Posted by Concerned4FFxi

There's a reason youtube has video's of Nin/Dnc soloing V.T. hydra mobs in Dynamis Beaucedine at 90 and making it look easy, and the solo Faffy Nin fight.

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The only reason ninja can do that is because of their old abilities, not their new ones. That and because dancer as a sub makes ninja incredibly well-rounded. The uses of the new ninjutsu are limited as it is. The fact that people are more willing to forego their effects than wait 4 seconds (before or during a fight) should be enough to tell you that.

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Aisha is worthless because you don't get hit enough for it to matter. Yurin is worthless because you don't get hit enough for it to matter.

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Aisha is worthless because it doesn't land for any decent duration, if at all, on anything where you'd care about it to begin with. Yurin is wonderful; TP moves and spells are the majority of what will hit a good NIN and reducing that is always welcome in a serious fight.

I'd certainly like to see some spells get the Ni treatment, if only for the reduced cast time.

I don't really think giving us Monomi : Ni will get us overpowered.
I'd like to see either a duration timer based on ninjutsu skill (for tonko/monomi) and, as for dancer, based on dagger skill.


Nexxus - Cerberus

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Originally Posted by Nightfyre

Aisha is worthless because it doesn't land for any decent duration, if at all, on anything where you'd care about it to begin with. Yurin is wonderful; TP moves and spells are the majority of what will hit a good NIN and reducing that is always welcome in a serious fight.

I'd certainly like to see some spells get the Ni treatment, if only for the reduced cast time.

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Agreed on everything, love Yurin and aside from Penance it's currently the only thing that can reduce target's TP gain?
I'd love at least Jubaku: Ni and Kakka: Ni.
Asking for many other :Ni would probably be hoping for too much...
Oh and Monomi: Ni too because it's annoying how it doesn't last as long as Tonko :P

Aisha is a really really strong spell, I wish it actually lasted a decent amount of time and everything tough didn't resist it :/

Could be the same manner as to why we don't jubaku: Ni, because of the power behind it as well as utsusemi: san. Perhaps what SE was trying to do with these spells is develop the opportunity to make NIN more enfeeble worthy rather then just having jutsu that mimiced what a RDM could do.

In that sense yes the cast time is pretty much the penalty when you decide whether it's worth casting or not. If you do consider the utility given with the new jutsu I can understand why we only have ichi. While it would be nice to have Ni I can see where it might be to overpowered to use. Perhaps a better idea would be to actually rename these spells if there is no consideration of making a Ni version. While I understand they want to make it coherent by saying ok this is number one it gives the player the impression that perhaps their is a higher tier we'll see in the future. While in the sense of juabku there is a ni as far as I know all the new jutsus just seem to be player only.

Honestly if SE has no plans to make a Ni version I would recommend them to remove the ichi from each of those spells since they are pretty much independent from the original jutsu spells we've known since NIN was revealed. To keep it as such just gives false hope in thinking perhaps we'll see the quicker casting form of said jutsu when I doubt that'll be the case unless they decide to add it in the tier 2 merits when we reach 99.

Though perhaps there is another way. Instead of receiving the option to obtain the ni version through merits perhaps we could be given the option to enhance the casting time and potency of the spell.

Basically the following spells:
Aisha
Yurin
Myoshu
Migawari
Kakka

could all have
:increase potency 0/5
:increase cast time/duration 0/5
With the 0/20 limit

In this sense it would give each NIN the opportunity to customize themselves in the manner they see fit. While sure they only have the option max 2 fully if they want or focus on casting faster or being more potent it would be up to them. Though at least in this manner there wouldn't be as big of an imbalance when it comes to a "ni" version of the spell cause all we'll be getting is the opportunity to enhance the ichi versions to our liking based on which spells we find to be more useful.

Yurin is a wonderful spell and anyone who says otherwise is a terrible Ninja.

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Originally Posted by Juxtaposition

Yurin is a wonderful spell and anyone who says otherwise is a terrible Ninja.

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Spell?

Superfluous text.

Read through the first few posts and skipped the rest to be honest. Agreed to an extent - either extend the duration of Kakka: Ichi, or give it the casting time of a :Ni spell.

I don't have it yet - but will use it when I get it, however only before a fight because as said in one of the first posts - downtime casting an Ichi spell is less damage dealt - alas less TP gained also.

Increasing the duration to last a solid 3-4 mins to last at least a good chunk of the fight would be ideal so you can cast before engaging. That or give it a :Ni cast time.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

Spell?

Superfluous text.

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Yes, spell. It has casting time, it can be silenced, it is affected by fast cast, you learn it via scrolls, it can be interrupted.

Not all spells use MP. Go back to Siren.