So...Spontaneity...

Who agrees that 10 minute recast on the JA is way too high?

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

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Originally Posted by Quetzacoatl

Who agrees that 10 minute recast on the JA is way too high?

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I'd say knock it down to 5 minutes. 3 minutes would be ideal, though.

10 min. rly??

first junk 5% DA now ja with 10 min.
hope i have a nightmare

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Originally Posted by Duelle

I'd say knock it down to 5 minutes. 3 minutes would be ideal, though.

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Agreed on this one, 10 minutes is a goddamn joke.

Dear SE, do you really hate Red Mages that much?

Why is Spontaneity 10 minute recast but Konzen-ittai is a 3 minute recast? Konzen-ittai is incredibly powerful for a 3minute recast ability especially with an Empyrean Weapon. Spontaneity lets us instant cast a spell, but really; what spell does RDM have in our arsenal that would upset game balance if we could reuse this JA every 3minutes? A 1200 damage Thunder4 that takes up 1/4th of our MP? A quick raise? An instant Cure(IV lol)? I'd understand if it was a 10m recast if BLMs had it because their spells have a huge impact and deal massive damage. RDM spells are so easily missed.

Relax, we'll be able to merit it to 8 minutes.

Seriously, I would have laughed this off as useless if it were every five minutes. Ten is unbelievable.

I can't wait until level 99 when we'll get to cast our big end game spell, Deodorize II.

This ability is actually good even though the recast is long, I can't complain @_@

isn't that what the test server is for though? to test out things like this before they become official?

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Originally Posted by Bubeeky

isn't that what the test server is for though? to test out things like this before they become official?

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The real question is: where can we put this feedback to ensure it is seen and at the very least considered by the developers?

We have our Temper threads here, the temper feedback in the test server forum got buried already. Don't know what else we can do other than post some more.

To recap, Spontaneity/Quick Magic recast should be taken down 5 or 3 minutes. Worst case scenario, delete something from category 1 or 2 merits and replace it with the option to merit Spontaneity/Quick Magic from 5 minutes down to 3 minutes.

10 minute cooldown is too much for an ability that seems to be something to be used whenever possible and is not an endurance/survival tool like Convert.

A ten minute recast? That doesn't sound very...:cool:...spontaneous.

Disgusting.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

The real question is: where can we put this feedback to ensure it is seen and at the very least considered by the developers?

We have our Temper threads here, the temper feedback in the test server forum got buried already. Don't know what else we can do other than post some more.

To recap, Spontaneity/Quick Magic recast should be taken down 5 or 3 minutes. Worst case scenario, delete something from category 1 or 2 merits and replace it with the option to merit Spontaneity/Quick Magic from 5 minutes down to 3 minutes.

10 minute cooldown is too much for an ability that seems to be something to be used whenever possible and is not an endurance/survival tool like Convert.

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You respond by thinking like a developer / community manager not a player.

The developers do not play this game, at night they go home and relax with their family's. They also don't speak English as a first language, and most likely don't speak English at all. When you combine these two things you realize that the only way to get anything to a dev is through their PR team, in this case the community managers / organizers. Now CM/CO's aren't players either, their forum moderators who's assigned job is to be a go-between for the FFXI development team and the player base.

What you have to do is make a clean post explaining the situation and asking them to look into it. Don't use gamer jargon or slang, don't flame, yell, sigh, or use emoticons. Just be clean and polite. They'll notice, their paid to read the forums (but not every post of a 30+ page thread) and if there is enough positive feedback behind something they'll take the idea / concern to the developers. The devs will go over it during their daily / weekly meetings (or whatever schedule their PM has them on) and that will be that. Just look at the DRK forum, the idea's were so off base and the reaction so loud that the CM's brought it to the dev's who agreed to rethink some of their planned DRK update. Also Dev's don't have much time, their extremely busy, so keep things short and don't ask for complicated implementations.

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You respond by thinking like a developer / community manager not a player.

The developers do not play this game, at night they go home and relax with their family's. They also don't speak English as a first language, and most likely don't speak English at all. When you combine these two things you realize that the only way to get anything to a dev is through their PR team, in this case the community managers / organizers. Now CM/CO's aren't players either, their forum moderators who's assigned job is to be a go-between for the FFXI development team and the player base.

What you have to do is make a clean post explaining the situation and asking them to look into it. Don't use gamer jargon or slang, don't flame, yell, sigh, or use emoticons. Just be clean and polite. They'll notice, their paid to read the forums (but not every post of a 30+ page thread) and if there is enough positive feedback behind something they'll take the idea / concern to the developers. The devs will go over it during their daily / weekly meetings (or whatever schedule their PM has them on) and that will be that. Just look at the DRK forum, the idea's were so off base and the reaction so loud that the CM's brought it to the dev's who agreed to rethink some of their planned DRK update. Also Dev's don't have much time, their extremely busy, so keep things short and don't ask for complicated implementations.

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The job of the Forum Community Manager's is to address this, not the players. They do and have played this game, which is why they've been chosen to fill this role.

It is our job to think like players, not like developers.

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It is our job to think like players, not like developers.

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And that is how you get exactly nothing done and why FFXI dev's were out of touch with the players.

And no CM's may have once been players, not their just reading forums and running back and forth between SE and the players. Or haven't you noticed one CM posting dozens of messages across just about all the job forums. That much traffic means they won't be reading 30+ page threads trying to decipher what a flaming / screaming / emoing fan base wants done.

Want to get a message to the dev's, make it was easy for the messenger as possible, else they'll just throw your request into file 13.

It is not our responsibility to get anything done. We are the consumers, the customers, the audience.

Should you choose to present feedback the best way you can present it to the institute of interest is to be as honest as you possibly can, in whatever form you wish to.

Trying to understand the development team is perfectly fine, but never put yourself in someone else's shoes as you skew feedback towards being unrepresentable.

Help the developers by being a honest player, not a mini-mod.

Case in Point - Payment adjustments.

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Originally Posted by Tashan

It is not our responsibility to get anything done. We are the consumers, the customers, the audience.

Should you choose to present feedback the best way you can present it to the institute of interest is to be as honest as you possibly can, in whatever form you wish to.

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I'm going with this. Camate has even posted things in topics related to Thief that imply he relates the tone along with the message, so if players really hate something than that will presumably be conveyed.

As long as we're paying to play, it is our responsibility to tell them what we want. Some might subscribe to the theory that if you don't like something, you can just quit, but I see such behavior as forfeiting your right to criticism as pulling your sub is basically an admission of lacking faith in the development process. Seems SE feels similar to some degree since you can't post here without an active sub. One person here and there, otherwise, won't change anything. There needs to be organization, or collective whining as some may liken to the melee movement. And while we don't know the precise dev process, attempting to think like one can help weed out the unreasonable ideas while referencing other existing features to either incorporate or adapt to an idea.

Far as Spont goes, though, 10m is inexcusable. Bluntly, I've felt a lot of the game's JAs have had too restrictive timers, thus choking off job diversity, but that's another argument.

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Originally Posted by Tashan

It is not our responsibility to get anything done. We are the consumers, the customers, the audience.

Should you choose to present feedback the best way you can present it to the institute of interest is to be as honest as you possibly can, in whatever form you wish to.

Trying to understand the development team is perfectly fine, but never put yourself in someone else's shoes as you skew feedback towards being unrepresentable.

Help the developers by being a honest player, not a mini-mod.

Case in Point - Payment adjustments.

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And in a perfect world each of us would have our own personal developer to cater to our very own wish's. Complete with rainbow unicorn sprinkles.

Now back to reality where people have lives and are working constantly under demanding timelines. Demanding stuff while stamping your feet and saying your a "consumer" will just have the cook add their "secret ingredients" to your order. CM / Dev's are not robots to cater to your ever whim, their people with family's and lives. Refusing to adjust your thinking to better communicate your desires just goes to show a selfish attitude. That gets absolutely nothing accomplished, and while you may feel a sense of smugness for getting nothing done, but doing it your way, to the eyes of dev's and admins you just look like a fool.

And btw this is coming from someone who's run an MMO before.

Protip, don't assume dev's know what player created acronyms mean, especially when they don't speak your language. Take "Programmed Random OcCurrence" for example (PROC), we use it all the time to describe when something random happens in the game, but to most developers the term "PROC" is meaningless unless they've been involved in the english speaking MMO community. Thus when explaining something having to do with proc's you instead use the term activation rate. It translates easier and will make your message clearer.

Effective Communication 101, when communicating a message always take your audience (the receiver of the message) into account. Phrase and parse the message in a way that the audience has the best time understanding and relating to. Otherwise you sound like the teacher on Charlie Brown.

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Originally Posted by Seriha

Far as Spont goes, though, 10m is inexcusable. Bluntly, I've felt a lot of the game's JAs have had too restrictive timers, thus choking off job diversity, but that's another argument.

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In this case, I have total confidence that there would be no argument. The response to every new job ability has been "Oh, this is neat I wonder what the reca ... Ten minutes?! [expletive]! Really? [more vulgar and creative expletive]!!!"

That response added nothing.

The only thing to say is see the previous reply, as I'd only be repeating myself.

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Originally Posted by Merton9999

Relax, we'll be able to merit it to 8 minutes.

Seriously, I would have laughed this off as useless if it were every five minutes. Ten is unbelievable.

I can't wait until level 99 when we'll get to cast our big end game spell, Deodorize II.

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LOL!
I can't really see many uses for Spontaneity right now, but like everyone else I'm hoping for a shorter recast timer.

This needs to be decreased to at most 3 minutes or be removed.

...Idk you guys might be over exaggerating. I think the reason SE made it a 10 minute timer was because you can give it to other people in your party... and it would kindof chipin your 2hr if you had instant cast every 3 minutes. I don't think SE wants you guys to be able to cast instantly very often (they think that's what fast cast is for).

The way I see it it's just a skill to help you on long recast spells like raise or help other mages cast instantly... then again I don't play rdm so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

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Originally Posted by Darkwizardzin

...Idk you guys might be over exaggerating. I think the reason SE made it a 10 minute timer was because you can give it to other people in your party... and it would kindof chipin your 2hr if you had instant cast every 3 minutes. I don't think SE wants you guys to be able to cast instantly very often (they think that's what fast cast is for).

The way I see it it's just a skill to help you on long recast spells like raise or help other mages cast instantly... then again I don't play rdm so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

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Forgive me if this is obvious, but has anyone tested if this can indeed be used on other party members, and also if it eliminates recast as well as casting time?

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Originally Posted by Merton9999

Forgive me if this is obvious, but has anyone tested if this can indeed be used on other party members, and also if it eliminates recast as well as casting time?

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If the black mage ja can be casted on other party members Im sure this can be as well. Just in case I'll go test it out now for you.

"I know next to nothing about this ability, and don't play the job....stop complaining" really? Is this guy being serious? I can't tell.

ok just did it (sorry for delay internet went out) yes you can use the ja on party members and it does set recast to 0.

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Originally Posted by Anathiel

"I know next to nothing about this ability, and don't play the job....stop complaining" really? Is this guy being serious? I can't tell.

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I just feel people are too quick to conplain about somthing. The people in this thread make it seems that the ja they just got is worthless and does nothing for there job because they think the recast is too long. imo it's not worthless and it does help the job (not saying SE can't lower the recast just saying the skill still works for what it's used for 10minute recast or not).

Even with a low cooldown timer, I don't see it getting used on other players a whole lot. The delay spent coordinating its use would almost inevitably offset the increased speed of execution. It'll get used for nukes and raises, but that's about it.

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

Even with a low cooldown timer, I don't see it getting used on other players a whole lot. The delay spent coordinating its use would almost inevitably offset the increased speed of execution. It'll get used for nukes and raises, but that's about it.

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I can see it being used on blus too. Alot of those spells have long casting times.

Mmm, instant whisker.

The only thing I've been thinking is /SCH allows for Klimaform now, so RDM/SCH would have a 2-minute long accuracy bonus to any spells of element earth, water, wind, fire, ice every 10 minutes. Kind of a mini elemental seal for a whole 2 minutes of spells, minus the weather casting time.

Not sure if I'm that excited about it, just trying to think of something mildly useful outside of fast raise and nukes.

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Originally Posted by Merton9999

The only thing I've been thinking is /SCH allows for Klimaform now, so RDM/SCH would have a 2-minute long accuracy bonus to any spells of element earth, water, wind, fire, ice every 10 minutes. Kind of a mini elemental seal for a whole 2 minutes of spells, minus the weather casting time.

Not sure if I'm that excited about it, just trying to think of something mildly useful outside of fast raise and nukes.

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If they don't block that spell the developers need a slap...

On a side note it could be good for an instant raise if say more than 4 people died.

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Originally Posted by Seriha

Mmm, instant whisker.

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all 10 min. lol

Agreed, 10 Minutes is way too long for a single cast spell. This will become a job ability that most of us just forget about, and stop even noticing that it's there because it's recast time is so high. And seriously... using this JA before a cure, you would end up WASTING more time from doing the JA than the cure itself wouldve normally taken.

As far as temper goes, it's even worse than this. 5% DA rate from a self-bufff spell is utterly pointless... and yet the help-text describes this as a similar effect as joyeuse. WOW LOL!.... With only a TENTH of the potency.

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Originally Posted by Darkwizardzin

I can see it being used on blus too. Alot of those spells have long casting times.

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Wait...you mean that this can be used on other people? I guess that I can understand the 10-minute timer if that is the case. I was under the impression it was self-cast.

Yep turns out it can be used on someone else, which actually isn't to bad a deal. I'm still thinking we need a JA / JT that gives us quick-magic, that's just classic RDM "Double Cast", but knowing how every other FF game is we'll be getting it at 99. I see this useful to used on BLM's trying to proc something, their spells have ridiculous cast / recast times, or for quickly raising two people back to back. Could also be used as an emergency "shields up" macro to get stoneskin up RFN. There are lots of use's to it, but 10mins definitely too long. Make it 5 min and we're set.

If you feel 10min is too long, make a post and explain it out, work as a community and SE might take notice and change it.

I'm not sure where I think Spontaneity's recast should be. I agree that 10 minutes is too long even with the ability to cast it on other people mainly because I can't really think of any spell that if it were instant cast on a semi-frequent basis would break the game.

I mean there's a few things that can justify Manawell being on a 10 min timer but is there anything similar for Spontaneity?