Temper info

Forgot to write a lot of the exact info down but:

MP cost - 36
Duration - 3 minutes
DA rate - +5% (lol)

5%?

Damn.

Links to testing?

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

Links to testing?

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I doubt enough proper tests could be done this quickly, though I do know it is lower than the Joyeuse.

Even 10-20% would be welcomed, though I do hope it's higher than that.

I have somewhere between 5-10% manually counting hits per attack round. I'm erring toward the lower end, which is unfortunate, but could also see SE treating this like Haste Samba and having a T3 merit add 1-2% per level. Still think the default should be 10% minimum. Those bawwhawwing about useless won't be too far off the mark if it does indeed remain 5%.

I have no link to testing because my test materials were a notebook and a pen. I can tell you though that in 512 total attack rounds I DAed 27 times which comes out to 5.27% and yes I was paying very close attention. I promise it's ~5%.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

I have no link to testing because my test materials were a notebook and a pen. I can tell you though that in 512 total attack rounds I DAed 27 times which comes out to 5.27% and yes I was paying very close attention. I promise it's ~5%.

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Sounds about right to me as well... Personally in my view it's a waste of a spell slot as it stands. I was hoping due to the self-target only it might have actually been worth while... Guess it's best not to get your hopes up.

The funniest thing to me is that if you don't use composure with this (I don't know why you wouldn't but just saying) you probably lose as many swings casting the spell as you would gain over the 3 minute duration lol.

So does it stack with enspells?

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Originally Posted by Hashmalum

So does it stack with enspells?

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It appears to.

Yes, it does.

So, we get a brutal earring, in spell form.

SE needs to stop being afraid of giving more substantial melee buff spells. I understand they're trying to balance it out with everything else we have, but the minimalism is getting a bit too touch and go.

10% would have been acceptable, as that's a native Double Attack trait, but at this rate I'm expecting the developers to go one step WORSE and try to add the remaining 5 into some sort of merit.

Something that's costing us MP and cast time to maintain needs to be more powerful than what's being experienced.

With it not conflicting with Enspells, I can see 10-15%.

If they switch it to to Conflicting with enspells, no lower than 20-25%

Is it Occasionally attacks twice, which is what the spell says, or is it double atk? because the blu phalanx isn't what we as players would normally call a phalanx and it changes the aspect of this spell.

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Originally Posted by Luces

Is it Occasionally attacks twice, which is what the spell says, or is it double atk? because the blu phalanx isn't what we as players would normally call a phalanx and it changes the aspect of this spell.

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That I do not know. I'm not willing to do a sample large enough to prove that one either way.

I thought I had a Flat Blade DA with no other DA gear on based on TP return, but that might've been me getting hit at the same time I WSed. Bit disappointed with my initial findings, so have been focusing more on the main game for now since I have stuff I can do there.

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Originally Posted by Luces

Is it Occasionally attacks twice, which is what the spell says, or is it double atk? because the blu phalanx isn't what we as players would normally call a phalanx and it changes the aspect of this spell.

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That is really disappointing too that BLU would get a better Phalanx spell than RDM who were to first to learn it.

Also I think they should change the text pure damage taken % is not really like a phalanx effect at all.

Well it's called a test server for a reason. Seeing as it's not final yet you might want to send feedback to SE about the potency of Temper.

Aye I thought the whole point of the test server (besides the free bug-testing labor) was to give SE a look on the players perspective on how players would use abilities and spells and receive input on peoples thoughts so they could tweak it.

This makes me think that Temper might scale up with enhancing gear.

I'd understand the 5% base rate if it was expected to climb at a reasonable pace.

Yes but at what enhancing magic was that 5% cast at? This is why more info is needed other then "guys I did testing and its' only 5%". And is it on-cast or on-hit potency?

So yeah, more info needed but the base rate seems to suck currently.

he already said that the test server automatically caps enhancing magic

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he already said that the test server automatically caps enhancing magic

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That's not what I was talking about, please learn to read. I assumed all skills were capped for that particular level, but was any additional +enh gear used. We have 60+ enhancing skill available through gear, thus potency scaling can be tested through this method.

Sounds like Temper is going the route of SCH's Libra, Animus and Adloquium - new abilities that sound good in concept but are so low in potency that they're barely worth the MP and casting time.

My biggest disappointment with both of these jobs 76-90 is that the levels have been filled with soooo much fluff. I really hope the test server allows some of these things to grow for the better before update time.

So waiting to hear that Spontaneity is a 2% casting time reduction...

Remember this isn't out yet, its on a test server meaning it's still in development. Right ~NOW~ is the time to mention anything you want changed with it, once it goes live SE will be rather reluctant to change it (not saying they wont, but it's easier to change before it goes live then after).

So I say again, if you think Temper is too low then right now make requests for it to be stronger, both in the feedback forum and here in the RDM forum. I've already made a post about it, make your own or add to that one. If SE dev's see enough feedback they'll look into it. Just remember to be nice and constructive, no flaming or snide comments.

Blu gets curaga4, doom, phalanx, we get 3-5% DA

np guys

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Originally Posted by saevel

Remember this isn't out yet, its on a test server meaning it's still in development. Right ~NOW~ is the time to mention anything you want changed with it, once it goes live SE will be rather reluctant to change it (not saying they wont, but it's easier to change before it goes live then after).

So I say again, if you think Temper is too low then right now make requests for it to be stronger, both in the feedback forum and here in the RDM forum. I've already made a post about it, make your own or add to that one. If SE dev's see enough feedback they'll look into it. Just remember to be nice and constructive, no flaming or snide comments.

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Feedback? Remove temper, add an actual useful spell that will be used for things that matter, like a new enfeeble that has high macc/lands on most things or a new JT that enhances the macc of our enfeebles to land on almost anything :/

We do, but seldom do mod's act unless people report them. And while yes there are some trolls on this forum, most at least can put up a decent conversation that is remotely constructive weather or not they agree or disagree with the subject in question.

Just curious as to why you think Shiyo is flaming and trolling? I don't see them specifically attacking any poster so they can't be flaming, and they are stating an opinion of what they feel the Rdm job needs, so I don't see that as being particularly troll worthy. You may not agree with the opinion, but it's far, far away from trolling. And quite frankly I think Shiyo is right, Rdm needs something that will actually benefit what they do in party situations i.e. a buff to their enhancing/enfeebling capability, not just something to help them swing their sword more against trash mobs.

Yo dawg.

We heard you like trolling, so we put a troll inside your troll so you can troll while you're trolling.

It's one thing to want caster buffs, it's another to blanketly assume the melee camp is dumb as well as any idea toward helping it. Note that she wants to take Temper away to replace it with her ideal and not even attempt to compromise. If the intent is to instigate a negative reaction, mission accomplished.

Temper is so weak, and RDM melee is so weak, that the ability might as well not exist. I want them to not waste dev time, or any time at all looking at peoples feedback/editing the spell/etc and instead scrap it entirely and give us something useful.

Also, yeah, tons of trolling/flaming from me clearly :/

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Originally Posted by Seriha

It's one thing to want caster buffs, it's another to blanketly assume the melee camp is dumb as well as any idea toward helping it. Note that she wants to take Temper away to replace it with her ideal and not even attempt to compromise. If the intent is to instigate a negative reaction, mission accomplished.

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The thing is, the people in the melee camp aren't 'dumb' as people, but the idea of a melee rdm is dumb as the game currently stands and giving a spell that gives a whopping 5% DA is not helping matters.

Unless they made Temper a 30% activation rate and made it stack with en-spells, rdm melee will still be lol. And no, that wouldn't be 'overpowered', it'd be the minimum as there's such a gap to bridge between a normal melee and a rdm, you'd need something drastic.

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Originally Posted by Pharaun

Just curious as to why you think Shiyo is flaming and trolling? I don't see them specifically attacking any poster so they can't be flaming, and they are stating an opinion of what they feel the Rdm job needs, so I don't see that as being particularly troll worthy. You may not agree with the opinion, but it's far, far away from trolling. And quite frankly I think Shiyo is right, Rdm needs something that will actually benefit what they do in party situations i.e. a buff to their enhancing/enfeebling capability, not just something to help them swing their sword more against trash mobs.

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Which is why you think she's not at troll, she's agreeing with you.

Just read over every one of her posts, their abrasive, rude, antagonistic and in every way the definition of a flamebait troll. She comes on here with the single intention of stiring up sh!t and thus I've put her on the ignore list. If all the people would stop replying to her troll posts then she's fade away.

Now we could get into this protracted debate about pro / con and what not, but you have zero intention of listening or taking anyone else seriously, thus I'll just cut to the end. You desire RDM to never melee and thus would rename the job to "SCH", "WHM-2" or "BLM-2" which is what it basically becomes once your remove the melee aspect. I don't care if it helps you get your DRG / PUP / DRK / SAM Emperion weapon / armor faster, of if it allows you to skip the WHM and just grab a RDM instead for whatever even your trying to put together.

There is a component of the job's design that is neglected / underused, both the RDM player base and SE desire enhance this underused aspect. We don't care if everyone else just wants us to haste them faster.

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Originally Posted by Miitan

The thing is, the people in the melee camp aren't 'dumb' as people, but the idea of a melee rdm is dumb as the game currently stands and giving a spell that gives a whopping 5% DA is not helping matters.

Unless they made Temper a 30% activation rate and made it stack with en-spells, rdm melee will still be lol. And no, that wouldn't be 'overpowered', it'd be the minimum as there's such a gap to bridge between a normal melee and a rdm, you'd need something drastic.

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On the whole, we don't expect the spell alone to be the solution to all of the job's martial woes, but as a step in the right direction, it still needs a bit of improvement.

The cumulative equivalent of, "GO PLAY BLU CUZ MELEE RDM SUX!" is not at all constructive, and especially short-sighted when rooted in the belief that a game of numbers can't be tweaked through spells, JAs, and equipment to yield a desired result.

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Originally Posted by Miitan

The thing is, the people in the melee camp aren't 'dumb' as people, but the idea of a melee rdm is dumb as the game currently stands and giving a spell that gives a whopping 5% DA is not helping matters.

Unless they made Temper a 30% activation rate and made it stack with en-spells, rdm melee will still be lol. And no, that wouldn't be 'overpowered', it'd be the minimum as there's such a gap to bridge between a normal melee and a rdm, you'd need something drastic.

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Then do you want it fixed or not? Decide already because right now there is a very real group of people who do not want it fixed and instead would jump with joy if RDM's Sword / Dagger skill were set to 0. They don't play RDM, have no intention to ever actually use the job and want a return to the days when they can skip out on WHM's and just throw in a RDM instead for their main healer. This talk of melee makes them worried, they were hoping post abyssea that they would get back one of their main healers instead of being forced to use WHM's. It also makes the BLU's worried because as it stands their the games #2 best healers right now, and very soon I can see them start to be forced into a healing role. I can very well see a LS leader telling one of their players "go change to BLU/WHM we need you to heal the DD's, and don't swing that damn sword we need you healing not lol-melee-blu". As the LS leader isn't a BLU nor does he care about the other players it means nothing to him to do this.

Put another way, there is a chronic lack of healers in this game. Now I'm not talking healing jobs, but players who want to actually heal. Everyone wants to melee, nuke, use JA's / abilities and be engaged in the fight, nobody wants to Cure V, Haste, Cure IV, haste, Erase, Cure V, for the entire fight. So now you have leaders and organizes looking to force whomever they can into being the main healer of a party. This isn't speculation its just a condition all MMO's get into eventually.

Why? Melee RDM's scream they don't want to heal, scream they don't want to manage buff cycles, and just want to autoattack mobs and randomly spam enfeebles(i doubt they even do this). They should go to the link I posted. They're obviously playing the WRONG job.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Which is why you think she's not at troll, she's agreeing with you.

Just read over every one of her posts, their abrasive, rude, antagonistic and in every way the definition of a flamebait troll. She comes on here with the single intention of stiring up sh!t and thus I've put her on the ignore list. If all the people would stop replying to her troll posts then she's fade away.

Now we could get into this protracted debate about pro / con and what not, but you have zero intention of listening or taking anyone else seriously, thus I'll just cut to the end. You desire RDM to never melee and thus would rename the job to "SCH", "WHM-2" or "BLM-2" which is what it basically becomes once your remove the melee aspect. I don't care if it helps you get your DRG / PUP / DRK / SAM Emperion weapon / armor faster, of if it allows you to skip the WHM and just grab a RDM instead for whatever even your trying to put together.

There is a component of the job's design that is neglected / underused, both the RDM player base and SE desire enhance this underused aspect. We don't care if everyone else just wants us to haste them faster.

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And here is why I can't take you seriously, just because someone disagrees with you does not automatically make them a troll. The word troll gets thrown around so much on these forums that I am positive that they don't understand what a real troll is.

It's nice to see that you make a lot of assumptions about me, as far as I can remember I haven't weighed in on the rdm melee debate until today. Honestly I would like for Temper to be a worthwhile spell, and by worthwhile I feel it should be a 10-15% rate and castable on party members, but SE is so afraid of making Rdm any stronger than it already is that they won't give the job any significant buff. Of course you will now call me a troll and put me on the block list as well, so whatever.

edit* Although I will admit that Shiyo's post right below yours if fairly trollish.

Temper being castable on party members with 10-15% rate would be incredible :(

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Originally Posted by Pharaun

And here is why I can't take you seriously, just because someone disagrees with you does not automatically make them a troll. The word troll gets thrown around so much on these forums that I am positive that they don't understand what a real troll is.

It's nice to see that you make a lot of assumptions about me, as far as I can remember I haven't weighed in on the rdm melee debate until today. Honestly I would like for Temper to be a worthwhile spell, and by worthwhile I feel it should be a 10-15% rate and castable on party members, but SE is so afraid of making Rdm any stronger than it already is that they won't give the job any significant buff. Of course you will now call me a troll and put me on the block list as well, so whatever.

edit* Although I will admit that Shiyo's post right below yours if fairly trollish.

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Don't need to make any assumptions, you stated your intentions rather plainly. You don't see Temper as a buff to RDM melee capabilities and instead see it as a buff to your other jobs.

What you just said combined with

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And quite frankly I think Shiyo is right, Rdm needs something that will actually benefit what they do in party situations i.e. a buff to their enhancing/enfeebling capability, not just something to help them swing their sword more against trash mobs.

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Makes your position on motives quite clear.

You fit into the "couldn't care less if RDM got 0 sword / dagger skill" camp. You don't see RDM's swinging a sword as viable and would prefer it if you never saw a RDM melee again.

I've been doing this for 8+ years now, been in this debate for most of that time. There isn't a single argument you can bring forth that hasn't been brought forth before. I know every counter point your going to make and have debunked them all years ago. Everything from TP feeding to damage taken to needing staves even down to the "RDM isn't a DD" which is the fallback agreement that is always used. Which is itself a catch-22, RDM isn't accepted on the front lines and therefor shouldn't get any buffs to put it on the front lines (the argument against being the cause for the argument for).

That all being said you haven't done anything troll worthy yet. Shi first post into the RDM forums were troll flamebait troll posts.