Abyssea ruined low level XP parties

Not sure if the devs actually realise this but Abyssea having the min level req of 30 did a huge amount of damage to the leveling system of FFXI, within a month normal XP parties pretty much died out completely. If abyssea was made to make 75>90 bearable you succeeded, as I said though a bad decision also totally ruined the XP system and social interaction for low levels players.

What players now do is they create alliances(or tag along with their friends/ls) now on low level jobs and get big amounts of XP from XP boxes and if they stay long enough the base XP builds up to the point they get the same xp as high level players from Abyssea mob kills. So why XP anywhere else?

This has a bad effect on the entire playerbase of FFXI because these people that make alliances for this purpose would usually be the players that would go and make parties, now nobody makes any XP parties at all and players without the inclination or knowledge to make parties are out in the cold and can't get party xp at all. Did you as a dev team intend to kill the XP party system? Because honestly it's almost impossible now for anyone to get any kind of XP party at all on low jobs because as I said people that would normally make parties now just leech in Abyssea. This blocks the vast majority of FFXI players getting an invite no matter how long they flag up.

Abyssea minimum level req basically forced most of the population to solo XP using FoV. It amazes me how such a simple and small change that could make the game better for the vast majority of it's players has not been addressed in so long.

I guess it might be hard to change the min level req now so maybe another way can be found to fix this problem? Put a hard cap on XP from kills if you are below 70(maybe no more than 50 per kill), put a level cap on being able to partake in dominion and greatly reduce XP from chests.

I make this post because I honestly don't think the Dev team realise how much damage this is doing to the leveling system, new players, returnees and indeed normal players that don't want to leech in Aby now find it impossible to get XP invites at all.

The other post is all stupid off topic arguments about lack of skill etc, pointless to post in that now. If you fixed this you would annoy a small amount of players who are too lazy to level a job but you would make the gaming experience better for everyone else, most of whome don't post here or complain about it but still can't get an kind of XP parties anymore.

Its not that hard just make an xp party yourself. If you do not know how learn. Learning how to make an xp party is not that hard.

But if you learned how to make an xp party they could then go make an abyssea alliance instead, this still puts the vast majority of players out in the cold. Some will never ever make a party, lack of confidence or whatever and Square have to decide if losing players because they can't get xp parties is better than keeping a small number of players that leech happy. I know which option I would go for if I wanted to make money from subs long-term.

If players can't get xp parties they can't make friends or gain shells either, its a really big problem. I don't care how selfish some are they at least have to have some sense to see how bad that is for the life of a game they still play.

The recent EXP mini-update shows that SE is aware of this. It's not unreasonable to get 20k EXP or more an hour in parties outside of Abyssea.

Of course, this doesn't address the issue of people leveling in all of two areas now, because syncing to 20 and killing Qufim one creature at a time is so much easier than going anywhere else in the massive world SE created. Or maybe, if you're lucky, Colibri in Past Ronfaure.

No, I'm not bitter.

Very well written post you nailed one of the key issues on the head. Several people are coming back to the game recently and I see as well a hear a lot of the same issues you have stated by them. Another note for the "just learn to make a party" people is that it would not be hard if more than a handful of people even seek so its not as easy as it used to be in that respect. Best of luck to you keeping this one on topic though.

My favorites are the people who have 6 jobs @ 90 and I'm just returning so I throw together a party and try to take them to Crawlers Nest and those same people who brag about having all these jobs at 90 send me a tell saying they've never been to Crawlers Nest. I asked them what zones did they level in and they pretty much said Dunes, Qufim, and a couple times MMM.

ouch but that's what the world has come to ^^ but I'm a BST so I'm not complaining, less parties near my BST camps.

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Originally Posted by NrvnqsrKhaos

The recent EXP mini-update shows that SE is aware of this. It's not unreasonable to get 20k EXP or more an hour in parties outside of Abyssea.

Of course, this doesn't address the issue of people leveling in all of two areas now, because syncing to 20 and killing Qufim one creature at a time is so much easier than going anywhere else in the massive world SE created. Or maybe, if you're lucky, Colibri in Past Ronfaure.

No, I'm not bitter.

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I don't make Abyssea alliances because I enjoy them more than the traditional parties of yesteryear (actually, I do), I make them because they're more efficient and less of a time sink. The "problem" that you describe isn't really a problem at all, it's just the norm disagreeing with your preferences, which are nothing more than opinions.

If you prefer traditional, old school parties to Abyssea, then good for you; not everyone feels that way. That aside, what you're describing is hardly all that different anyway. Abyssea is merely three parties (i.e. an alliance/18 people) killing mobs repeatedly instead of one party (i.e. 6 people) killing mobs repeatedly. The formula is the exact same, only there are perks and benefits that Abyssea has over the old partying system.

Lastly, I don't know about you, but last I checked when you're in an Abyssea alliance, no one forbids you from speaking and exchanging pleasantries with the 17 other people in the alliance. Why you seem to think Abyssea prevents you from meeting new people and joining new linkshells is beyond me.

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Originally Posted by NrvnqsrKhaos

The recent EXP mini-update shows that SE is aware of this. It's not unreasonable to get 20k EXP or more an hour in parties outside of Abyssea.

Of course, this doesn't address the issue of people leveling in all of two areas now, because syncing to 20 and killing Qufim one creature at a time is so much easier than going anywhere else in the massive world SE created. Or maybe, if you're lucky, Colibri in Past Ronfaure.

No, I'm not bitter.

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No it doesn't address the entire issue but it is a step in the right direction. there will always be people out there who want to stay in one place until they get to abyssea but if more parties were being made they would spread back out again due to competition as well as sheer boredom of fighting any 1 mob for to long. At the rate SE increased exp to you can easily solo 10k per hour without FoV getting a party should not be the problem that it still is, but there has been a noticeable increase of people in small roaming groups.

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Originally Posted by Avarice

I don't make Abyssea alliances because I enjoy them more than the traditional parties of yesteryear (actually, I do), I make them because they're more efficient and less of a time sink. The "problem" that you describe isn't really a problem at all, it's just the norm disagreeing with your preferences, which are nothing more than opinions.

If you prefer traditional, old school parties to Abyssea, then good for you; not everyone feels that way. That aside, what you're describing is hardly all that different anyway. Abyssea is merely three parties (i.e. an alliance/18 people) killing mobs repeatedly instead of one party (i.e. 6 people) killing mobs repeatedly. The formula is the exact same, only there are perks and benefits that Abyssea has over the old partying system.

Lastly, I don't know about you, but last I checked when you're in an Abyssea alliance, no one forbids you from speaking and exchanging pleasantries with the 17 other people in the alliance. Why you seem to think Abyssea prevents you from meeting new people and joining new linkshells is beyond me.

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I believe the OP is referring to low level parties not the higher level type of abyssea parties like you describe in your post.

It only ruined low level exp parties because no one wants to do them. If people wanted to join such parties, then they would. But they don't want to, so they don't.

Not sure why you want to force your play style on everyone else.

I don't know what the big deal is. Soloing now, almost nets you the same amount of exp you used to get in a party. If you duo, you can get even more by chaining EM and T. Granted, parties now will give huge amounts of EXP, but it still doesn't take that long to level solo. With FoV's thrown into the mix, it's pretty amazing how fast you can climb levels. On a side note, there have been a lot more parties outside of Aby, since they increased exp and changed FoV, at least on Unicorn there has been. I think we just have to be patient and wait to see what will happen with the next version update. Plus, if you think there is not many people doing low level parties, once the level cap increases again, the low level parties will all but disappear for at least a month or so.

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It only ruined low level exp parties because no one wants to do them. If people wanted to join such parties, then they would. But they don't want to, so they don't.

Not sure why you want to force your play style on everyone else.

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I disagree, new players and most everyone else for that matter sure wants to do them. You didn't read my post so ill say it again, people that would make parties and invite low level players to kill mobs in a party now make abyssea allainces or leech off ls/friends. This means normal parties no longer are made and so anyone that wants to XP in any other way except solo FoV can't.

It hurts most normal players and especialy new players that are starting up and/or returnees without contacts willing to let them leech. The leeching system is forcing everyone else that can't to solo in a game designed to group up.

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I don't know what the big deal is. Soloing now, almost nets you the same amount of exp you used to get in a party.

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This is an MMO, an MMO that's famed for it's community. You don't get much into the community or have many opportunities to make friends/get into a linkshell solo. It is a big deal.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

I disagree, new players and most everyone else for that matter sure wants to do them. You didn't read my post so ill say it again, people that would make parties and invite low level players to kill mobs in a party now make abyssea allainces or leech off ls/friends. This means normal parties no longer are made and so anyone that wants to XP in any other way except solo FoV can't.

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If there were enough people that wanted to do such parties, then there wouldn't be a problem. But there's not very many people who are interested in them, hence the "problem".

I didn't read this particular post, no, but it's ok, because i've read the same post a thousand times before.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

new players and most everyone else for that matter sure wants to do them.

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Oh, cool! I didn't know you were a mind reader.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

people that would make parties and invite low level players to kill mobs in a party now make abyssea allainces.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

This means normal parties no longer are made

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Wouldn't this thus mean Abyssea alliances are now the "normal" parties?

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Originally Posted by Runespider

It hurts most normal players and especialy new players

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Normal people doing the norm. That's so unethical and dangerous.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

You don't get much into the community or have many opportunities to make friends/get into a linkshell solo. It is a big deal.

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This statement is completely besides the point, but I'd like to point out that if people wanted to make friends or get into a linkshell, they'd make friends or get into a linkshell. It's really not as hard to initiate a conversation as you're making it out to be.

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Some will never ever make a party, lack of confidence or whatever

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In my opinion, people this little resourceful are the worst type of players in the game. They're even worse than a leech who makes his own alliance because they're at least willing to work to build that alliance, where as the person you're describing is 100% expecting the work to come from someone else in every situation.

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If there were enough people that wanted to do such parties, then there wouldn't be a problem. But there's not very many people who are interested in them, hence the "problem".

I didn't read this particular post, no, but it's ok, because i've read the same post a thousand times before.

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I sure see enough low level players leeching in Abyssea to know they want to level jobs and if leeching was gone they would have to find alternatives, for most the other leeching alternatives are out of the question so yeah it would fix the problem.

As for the last line well maybe you should refrain from replying to posts you don't care enough about to read. Raising post counts i'm sure is a serious concern to you so i'll take any further replies you make as that and be sure to skim over them.

I know exactly what you're talking about Yopop! It's kind of funny how I see people with all these jobs, gear and so forth, but have no idea about a lot of the stuff in the game. I finally finished CoP (Funny since I started when it was released XD, those mammets are my bane) and I talk to people who have multiple finished jobs, and didn't even do that OR know that were fights after (Bahamut, Keeper of Apocalypse). Though it has never felt the same as when FFXI was first released, I'm glad that all the stuff I've learned over the years by grinding.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

This is an MMO, an MMO that's famed for it's community. You don't get much into the community or have many opportunities to make friends/get into a linkshell solo. It is a big deal.

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Leveling solo for low level has nothing to do with talking to people. I talk to people all the time, yet I solo [Dual Box] 85% of the time. Most of the parties I have been in, there is not much talking. A few conversations at best and usually between the people in the party who actually knew each other. Perhaps this is because I am not an outgoing person, but that is just usually how it seems to go in most of the parties I have been in outside of LS ones.

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and if leeching was gone they would have to find alternatives, for most the other leeching alternatives are out of the question so yeah it would fix the problem.

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yea because smn burns are really that out of the question!

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yea because smn burns are really that out of the question!

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They are indeed, to make a smn burn you need 2-3 summoners, 1-2 pullers that know how to pull and not die and most importanly a level sync that has to be continually deleveled. You also have very few zones that it can be done well in and have to deal with competition.

To leech in aby you either simply need to shout to build an alliance or tag along with friends/ls, for most people making a summoner burn is not going to be something that would happen.

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1-2 pullers that know how to pull and not die

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This was easy as fk at 75. What makes you think this is hard at 90? lol

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most importanly a level sync that has to be continually deleveled.

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Syncs were always the absolute easiest slot to fill in a smn burn. Who are you fooling?

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You also have very few zones that it can be done well in and have to deal with competition.

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nah, there were plenty of zones you could do this. Now, with the cap at 90, there are more zones you can do this in w/ a decent puller.

I think the point is that Abyssea has rendered obsolete most of the remaining battle content of the game. It's like the WalMart of Vana'diel.

I don't think raising the level requirement in Abyssea is an option. It's too late for that; the deed is done.

Changes need to made to re-purpose the other areas. The only way I can think of to do that is to offer experience and rewards on par with those offered in Abyssea, or create some new incentive that isn't available in Abyssea. Short of that, there is no incentive to utilize the standard game content for leveling, which means a majority of the game is now useless. SE has their work cut out for them if they intend to fix it.

I don't necessarily want the old game back. I just want the whole game back.

I don't particularly want to be dragged off onto arguing about smn burning, most people know they are not the same thing and one is harder to setup than the other.

My point with the post was to maybe pass on something that is having a negative effect on the playerbase that they may not realise is happening. If they read it and agree with it then hopefuilly it will change, if not oh well.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

If they read it and agree with it then hopefuilly it will change, if not oh well.

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If this was the point of your thread, then it's pointless, as there's already 4-5 other topics addressing the same issue, lol.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

I disagree, new players and most everyone else for that matter sure wants to do them.

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Then do them with this "most" you speak of. Shouldn't be that hard since you are in the majority. Why are you wasting your time here complaining, when you could be smacking away on bats in Garlaige, or dare I say it, Ants in QSC, for 6k per hour, and lots of downtime? Be sure everyone is able to make distortion too, even when you are fighting crabs.

Or is it really just many, or some? A few? Pretty much no one but masochists? If you are going to pretend like you actually know what you are talking about, at least make up some fake statistics to go with the BS. Hard numbers are very comforting, even when they are simply pulled from the ass.

We don't need a new thread every day about this.

1. If enough people wanted to do old school parties, you would be able to find a party. The fact that everyone wants to level in Abyssea proves that you are in a very small minority.

2. You can still party the old school way, nothing is stopping you. The fact that you want to force everyone to do it your way is the real problem.

Until you have an answer to both of these points all threads about old school XP parties vs. Abyssea XP will just be whining, and will get locked eventually.

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Originally Posted by ringthree

We don't need a new thread every day about this.

1. If enough people wanted to do old school parties, you would be able to find a party. The fact that everyone wants to level in Abyssea proves that you are in a very small minority.

2. You can still party the old school way, nothing is stopping you. The fact that you want to force everyone to do it your way is the real problem.

Until you have an answer to both of these points all threads about old school XP parties vs. Abyssea XP will just be whining, and will get locked eventually.

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To be fair, #1 prevents #2. If absolutely no one is willing to exp outside of abyssea, then that prevents those that do from doing so.

It doesn't really matter though, since the first point is all that is needed.

People usually go where ever the exp is best, regardless of how fun or not it is there.

Abyssea leeching isn't exactly exciting either, the fix shoud probably be to make non-abyssea 6-man parties even more appealing.

Personally, I am satisfied with the current increase in exp, because it lets me duo and trio at an acceptable rate with my friends. I don't really care that I could have gotten 4 times the exp as an abyssea leech, that shit's just too boring.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

But if you learned how to make an xp party they could then go make an abyssea alliance instead, this still puts the vast majority of players out in the cold. Some will never ever make a party, lack of confidence or whatever and Square have to decide if losing players because they can't get xp parties is better than keeping a small number of players that leech happy. I know which option I would go for if I wanted to make money from subs long-term.

If players can't get xp parties they can't make friends or gain shells either, its a really big problem. I don't care how selfish some are they at least have to have some sense to see how bad that is for the life of a game they still play.

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If a lot of people are left in the cold because of people exping in Abyssea parties why don't they all form up and make an old fashioned exp party? Surely not all of these people (the vast majority) are lacking in the confidence to put together an exp party all the time?

Why are you so concerned about holding the hands of the vast majority? Surely they are able to function normally?

I used the Abyssea-key person method for my WAR to get to 75. I needed a place for the 20 merits I was carrying around. I will say I found it incredibly boring to level like that but fighting basically for free with capped exp and merits is no fun either. Now that my WAR is 76, I have been doing skillups for my available weapons, not just concentrating on one weapon. I solo using my NPC fellow getting exp for me, my NPC, and getting skills for my weapons. All weapons that my WAR can use are now a minimum of 180, some are higher due to other jobs and when I started they were near level 25 WAR status.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

People usually go where ever the exp is best, regardless of how fun or not it is there.

Abyssea leeching isn't exactly exciting either, the fix shoud probably be to make non-abyssea 6-man parties even more appealing.

Personally, I am satisfied with the current increase in exp, because it lets me duo and trio at an acceptable rate with my friends. I don't really care that I could have gotten 4 times the exp as an abyssea leech, that shit's just too boring.

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This is one of the few posts with the view against Abyssea leeching that is actually legit and not just whining and crying.

You don't like Abyssea leeching because to you, it's boring as shit. I respect that opinion, and hopefully you are in turn respecting the opinion of those who do like it.

I have no problem with them retooling exp outside Abyssea to make it more appealing and worthwhile than it already is. I, and likely many others, will continue to do Abyssea for our exp. But I do recognize that the people who do not wish to do this are lacking in exp gain.

You are one of the few who actually does what they want: you don't like Abyssea leeching so you simply don't do it. I wish more of the people who didn't like it shared this attitude.

Buffing outside exp is a fantastic idea, and helps those who wish to exp outside. Nerfing inside exp is a horrible idea and only serves to punish or diminish the exp that wish to exp inside.

Why can't people argue for pleasing both groups, rather than just bitch and complain and scream "NERF WHAT I DON'T LIKE!"?

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Originally Posted by Simian

I solo using my NPC fellow getting exp for me, my NPC, and getting skills for my weapons. All weapons that my WAR can use are now a minimum of 180, some are higher due to other jobs and when I started they were near level 25 WAR status.

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Get a rdm or whm (rdm preferred for phalanx II, but whm also works for bottomless MP).

Go to Abyssea Tahrongi.

Get as many mandies as you can.

Regen atma x1, acc atma x2, acc food, retaliation.

Enjoy your skill ups.

Actually I thought of something that could make exping in "normal" areas more appealing again. Introduce new CP/IS/AN items that were actually worth getting for a lv75+ character. I have no idea what to use my idk, nearly 200k CP on. lately I've been trying to convert them into gil, but people seem to be kinda indifferent about my mrc cpt kukris.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

People usually go where ever the exp is best, regardless of how fun or not it is there.

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it's almost as if people aren't interested in exping, and just want to get to the end asap.

I'm surprised no one mentioned the middle level economy also virtually disappearing along with those parties.
The gear/weapons/items commonly used by those players that level past 30 is pretty much gone. No need to gear up your job past 30 if u won't need to do any fighting while leeching in Abyssea. I can see your points and agree that the minimum entry level shouldn't have been set so low but i do like the fact that SE is at least attempting to address the issue.

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Originally Posted by Riz

I'm surprised no one mentioned the middle level economy also virtually disappearing along with those parties.
The gear/weapons/items commonly used by those players that level past 30 is pretty much gone. No need to gear up your job past 30 if u won't need to do any fighting while leeching in Abyssea. I can see your points and agree that the minimum entry level shouldn't have been set so low but i do like the fact that SE is at least attempting to address the issue.

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If the demand was really there for it, someone would be supplying it.

To me not just the xp parties but the overall gaming experience I had with FFXI since 8 years ago...

I lost the hardcore feeling soon after aby released... this game is now made for people with no brain and it's a mess...

Solo. All jobs. All day. Every day. WHM Dual Hammer GO!