Ability Suggestion: Avatar's Rage

Hey, i was just thinking a bit since I don't know what kind of Ability SE is actually thiniking of when they mentioned it in the Job Adjustments Manifesto. But my Idea for the BP delay reduction Ability would be kind of like an Opposite to Avatar's Favor:

Name: Avatar's Rage
Recast: 5:00 minutes
Duration: 2 hours
Effect:
Bloody Pact: Rage Delay -15 independently to complement the normal BP delay Cap so we can do damage BPs every ~30 seconds
Additionally all BP Rages gain a slight attack and/or magic attack bonus
The Avatars gain their respective Enspell effect.

This all comes at the cost of Perpetuation cost +1-2 and all Blood Pacts costs are raised by 30-50%

Tell me what you'd think about such an Ability

I like it, I would hope the m.atk and phys. attack boost is inversely proportionate to favor. So a +20 M.atk boost? Seems only fair when favor has -20 M.atk and they expect us to use that.

Interesting, lets just wait and see what SE has planned for the new JA then roll off of that?

Well, there already exist items in game to get avatars/pet boost to all stats. Unfortunately, avatar being in the nature of being easily resummonable doesn't need to "rage". Nor do they especially need a 2 hr duration. Think a 30sec duration would be more reasonable to get the "bump" whatever it is based off move.

Hey what about a "Souleater" move for avatars, that consumes HP or MP of Summoner?

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Originally Posted by Covenant

Well, there already exist items in game to get avatars/pet boost to all stats. Unfortunately, avatar being in the nature of being easily resummonable doesn't need to "rage". Nor do they especially need a 2 hr duration. Think a 30sec duration would be more reasonable to get the "bump" whatever it is based off move.

Hey what about a "Souleater" move for avatars, that consumes HP or MP of Summoner?

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That sounds terrible, by your logic Avatars don't need to have a Favor either.
granted Favor is kind of useless imo, but i do like giving parties a nice boost to DA w/ ifrit, or crit rate w/ ramuh (although RR kinda makes that pointless) Diabolos Refresh has been handy in some situations, albeit not many.

In most parties you try to keep 1 avatar out for its pacts, with items like the caller's necklace that feeds tp the longer their out, and the more tp they have the stronger the pact ( If magical) physical its true that gear is more important than tp. The recast would need to be 30sec-1min and even then it could get messy.

A JA like the Op mentioned would be the polar opposite of the Favor we currently have, instead of weakening the avatar to give slightly decent buffs to the party you can make the avatar stronger making it more useful. The abilities given would scale up with time making 1 avatar a lot stronger than a fresh one. The Mp perp cost going up and the increased mp required for pacts is a great tradeoff, considering how Mp is damn near infinite in abyssea. Would give smn the edge they needed for quite awhile.

Souleater doesn't sound like a good move to transfer to smn, smallest hp pool out of the jobs and the fact that it wouldn't add that much damage to blood pacts, at least not over a scaling buff like the Op mentioned. If it were off the Mp pool, well w/ a 3hit move like predator claws that would eat like 30% of ur mp, which could work but really doesn't seem as useful to me. Outside aby that could cause a lot of mp problems for jobs w/o the best gear. giving them Enspells like the Op imagined already makes their rather pitiful normal attacks a bit more appealing. unless its like, 5dmg a hit, would have to be relativly strong, scale with smn skill.

I only pointed out the trials to swap the, in during a physical bloodpact or magic nuke for "free". I use the sacrifice torque(think -3mp/ increased accuracy) to gain additional bonus to multi-hit Bloodpacts. I had wanted to get the MaB torque and other once, but forgot about them eventually.

This idea that "Abyssea" is normal, is sorta like a rotting, putrid idea when it comes to the rest of the game. Players point to the ridiculous hits and think it's "normal". Nothing about Abyssea is normal, and letting those idea into "regular" player will ultimately ruin the other 95% of the game...just look dynamis "stagger" system. Did Dynamis really need this? People already want Atmas to spread outside Abyssea.

Let's put it another way...when crackheads smoke crack they think the world is awesome, however when they come down they realize they haven't eaten in a week and some of their teeth are falling out. Avatar are strong. Making them stronger is of course fun. But this is just the same request every job wants more damage, faster damage.

Oh ok, but SAM getting Buffs for virtually no downside (recast time lengthened, !wow! SAM doesnt even have natural spells to begin with!!) is ok?

This Suggestion is JUST to complement the more defensive stance of Avatar's Favor. This being said, i also think Avatar's Favor needs to be adjusted, so it's easier to use for defensive/supportive uses, I'm just not sure what changes exactly would be justified/. You know, SMN does not even HAVE the chance to deal fast dmg. If you'd play SMN regularly you'd know that this is just a request to give SMN an incentive to use Avatars as a source of dmg outside of those rare situations where people prefer hateless damage but slower progression.

It's already ridiculous how fast melees even outside of Abyssea can WS back to back, while SMN has to wait like 45 seconds to do Damage which isn't that much higher than 1 Melee WS. The only thing i'm requesting with this suggestion is to narrow the gap between the distinct Damage Dealers and the allround-talent Summoner. I'm not even asking to get it on par with "real" DDs only to let us play SMN the way we want: defensive/supportive or offensive. Oh yeah and i was never thinking of Abyssea when thinking this ability up, thanks.

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Oh ok, but SAM getting Buffs for virtually no downside (recast time lengthened, !wow! SAM doesnt even have natural spells to begin with!!) is ok?

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Yea, I think this is so ridiculous regarding SE's balance designs.

Though I think OP idea is ok. -15 delay is far from good enough, but with no MP costs attached it is a fine middle ground.

smn75 wait 45 sek., smn90 wait 45 sek. for lol dmg+
a dd 90 do much more and quicker dmg and ws as a 75, is that fair?

in my eyes that idea is good, when you have mp you can do more dmg, when you have not mp you cant.

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Originally Posted by Covenant

I only pointed out the trials to swap the, in during a physical bloodpact or magic nuke for "free". I use the sacrifice torque(think -3mp/ increased accuracy) to gain additional bonus to multi-hit Bloodpacts. I had wanted to get the MaB torque and other once, but forgot about them eventually.

This idea that "Abyssea" is normal, is sorta like a rotting, putrid idea when it comes to the rest of the game. Players point to the ridiculous hits and think it's "normal". Nothing about Abyssea is normal, and letting those idea into "regular" player will ultimately ruin the other 95% of the game...just look dynamis "stagger" system. Did Dynamis really need this? People already want Atmas to spread outside Abyssea.

Let's put it another way...when crackheads smoke crack they think the world is awesome, however when they come down they realize they haven't eaten in a week and some of their teeth are falling out. Avatar are strong. Making them stronger is of course fun. But this is just the same request every job wants more damage, faster damage.

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I use the sacrifice torque too, eidolon pendent when using magical pacts, swap in some Relic armor for physical pacts and tried in vain to get my karura hachigane from that damn Znm vulpangue. But even w/ all those gear swaps, outside or inside abyssea, damage wasn't that phenomenal. Usually they hit harder than a DD's ws's (when their acc didn't screw me over w/ a 300ish pred claws) but the 45sec. timer is just dumb. Now inside abyssea our damage potential is much higher, and Mp is unlimited, my shiva does upwards of 5k heavenly strikes which is pretty sweet no doubt, but then theres the obligatory 45sec timer i have to wait for before i can do that again.

Also we can't disregard Abyssea, where do 90% of players spend their time these days? Inside Abyssea. the 91-99 levels may add a lot of content outside of aby, but it's not going to stop people from using abyssea for exp, merits, dicking around etc. Some of the best gear comes from there as well. Majority of peoples time will still probably be abyssea focused. It's not a small portion of the game anymore, sadly the game revolves around it now.

Avatar's are strong...sort of. Their made of paper really, and dont hit very hard w/ normal attacks, only 2 of them can heal themselves and its usually not worth it (unless in abyssea and using ducal guard for soloing) even w/ the -52% pdt they get they take more damage than my DD jobs do, but they are expendable. These avatars however deal significantly less damage than your average DD these days, inside or outside of Aby. Its that damned 45sec timer holding them back though.

Everyone should use the sac torque... I've been trying to figure out how to full-time the crazy thing.

Enjoy your visits to towns!

Well, I guess only really S-zones and Al Zhabi would let your pet stay and drain HP though.

There are at least 2 avatars that are cheap enough to use full time with this torque. One's favor is Regen, the other is Refresh. The job is half done right there.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

There are at least 2 avatars that are cheap enough to use full time with this torque. One's favor is Regen, the other is Refresh. The job is half done right there.

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All avatars are cheap enough now without favor, +3mp per tick is easily achievable. Keep Regen II up full time job done. Wouldn't it be pointless using favor to full time torque(not that its not pointless anyway to full time it regardless), what with the attack penalty attached to favor?

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Originally Posted by Dallas

There are at least 2 avatars that are cheap enough to use full time with this torque. One's favor is Regen, the other is Refresh. The job is half done right there.

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I think the problem is that sac torque probably doesn't add to melee hits, meaning it won't really improve your damage at all by full timing it.

I pretty much agree with the OP. I was just thinking about about ways we SMN can raise the effectiveness of our avatars by intentionally increasing the perp cost. At this point in the game perp isn't an issue as its easy to go way below the cap of perp, so why not let us intentionally increase it?

Ya OP is a pretty sound suggestion. Although for increasing the bp: rage cost by 50% i would expect a pretty decent increase in dmg.

Wow, a Summoner JA idea thats actually good. I like it.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

I think the problem is that sac torque probably doesn't add to melee hits, meaning it won't really improve your damage at all by full timing it.

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There's that word again: "probably." You have a lot of time to complain on forums, go put on your gear and whack something!

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Originally Posted by Dallas

There's that word again: "probably." You have a lot of time to complain on forums, go put on your gear and whack something!

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Whack? We are talking pets, it is more like sic or assault you should tell me to do.

You need to level your staff skill a bit more, right? Multi-task! :P

The quick answer though is that atmas proved that the avatar's normal hits are impacted by +attack. Finding that result through gear would change a lot of people's perspective on SE's gear selection.

I view the Avatar: attack route as a potentially much safer build than my haste build. Unfortunately, the nature of pets means it will do less damage overall.

Did you use the correct atmas? Because if it had STR on it, it was the STR that did the difference. It has been tested that 1 STR is more worth than like 10 attack.

The only person besides me who has tested avatar attack I believe is Kegsay, and both were pre-Abyssea. I may have missed one, but I try to keep on top of that.

There are plenty of atma that add attack, but not STR. Baying Moon, Stronghold, Siren Shadow... I'm not sure why you would even test STR. Perhaps someone was wanting to use Ecliptic Growl? heh