The Play Online viewer really loses its necessity after the upgrade to this, except some friend list management options. (I don't think you can delete someone off your friends list, or rename them or any kind of management except add while in game).
This would be a great time to, on the PC and possibly 360 and PS2, remove the play online client and replace it with a stand alone launcher similar to FFXIV. You'd just have to push an update through POL that changes the executable, and archives or deletes the existing launcher, to a simple login prompt (exactly like FFXIVs).
FFXIV for those who don't know, has a simple setup of:
Username
Password
One Time Password
Along with some information, a link to the Lodestone (FFXIVs equivilent of Play Online.com), and a maintenance information page if the servers are down.
The clunky PoL login interface has served its purpose and should be done away with, especially if billing is now going to be handled online. The chat rooms are empty, Tetra Master is offline, services are now going to be removed from it, it's it for except a really drawn-out login box? Even the PS2 version could be updated to a simple login prompt and server information page.
I'd also be in favor of removing Handles and linking it directly to your Square-Enix ID for all characters, which could, in the future, allow for Cross-Game chat between FFXI and FFXIV. (Don't think it's possible? EQ1 and EQ2, and SWG, and Vanguard, and others, support it. In fact you can chat with your guilds in-game from the website, and even from a chat client they made. It's years ahead of POL).
(If this issue is addressed someone I didn't see it, I did a forum search and looked in the article and found no discussion on it).
Play Online Viewer after account transfer
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08-01-2011, 09:50 AMEadieniPlay Online Viewer after account transfer
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08-01-2011, 10:00 AMRAIST
POL was highly embedded in what goes on with FFXI though. It is more than just a launcher. They may well be working towards removing it one day, but they have to take it in small steps--remove one dependency and replace it with something else and make sure you didn't f*ck something up, and fix it if you did. Do too much at once and it makes it a lot harder to figure out just what break what.
no matter what, FFXI is going to need some sort of launcher for the login and version check/download process. It may still be the POL shell, just a stripped down version of it by the time they are done with it all. -
08-01-2011, 10:03 AMRhianu
I'm just wondering what SE is planning to do about all those Japanese PS2 players who don't own a computer. How are they going to manage their accounts?
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08-01-2011, 10:10 AMRAIST
maybe they all have the web on ttheir smart phones?
who knows wth they are thinking at this point...... -
08-01-2011, 10:12 AMEadieni
Ditch the PS2 version ? That would be awesome. (I don't hate PS2 users just that they have begun to limit the PC version -severely- because of ps2 limitations).
All they'd have to do is change POL to be a simple patcher, and a login box. Could keep the same login window it has now, but then it would jump right into FFXI. Heck, they could make a Combo Launcher for FFXI/FFXIV in the future (Launch both games, if installed, and patch them both). -
08-01-2011, 10:18 AMRAIST
eh.. ps2 limits aren't there simply because it is still supported. The core of the game was built around the limited resources avaialble to the environment. So, there are "hard" limits to certain resources that still exist in the PC and 360 that otherwise would not exist if they had designed it with say an x86 platform in mind.
Basically, after dropping the PS2, they would have to rebuild a lot of the core elements of the original structure.
Easiest analogy I can think of offhand is running 32bit software on 64bit Windows and hardware. Just because the OS and hardware can use 8 byte commands to enhance performance, that 32 bit software is still limited by it's core design to use 4 byte commands, so it is nerfed in comparison to a recompiled 64bit version of the same software. Or another example, when MMX, SSE2 and dual-cores first came out programs weren't compiled to exploit the new architecture and had to be redesigned from the ground up to support the new features. -
08-01-2011, 10:26 AMEadieni
@Raist
If Everquest can upgrade the game from DX8 to DX9 (and even to 9.0c) and go from crashing when fullscreen is lost, to being able to window, and can change its whole chat system to be a cross-game system, then SE can do it too.
FFXI is DX8 based, just like EQ was.
It's basically a matter of what SE thinks the future of FFXI is worth. A gradual upgrade to DX9 would allow things like:
Complex Shaders
GPU Shadows
Alt-Tab in fullscreen
DX 9 light sources!
Reflective water (part of shaders)
Cloth simulation (that would be really tough, EQ1 was able to add it though).
Anyways the point was POL Viewer sucks and this is a great time to greatly reduce mess it is. -
08-01-2011, 10:37 AMRAIST
That's the API layer for graphics. That is a layer added with the wrapper that is runing the PS2 environement's code. The PS2 is not using DirectX--that is part of the "wrapper" used for the PC version. Not sure of the specifics on the 360--but the graphics on the PC are a seperate entity in a sense. They could add DX9 support without changing any of the core. They infact were trying to ggive it a DX update a while back, but they were exhausting more resources trying to accomplish certain things and dropped it. At least it finally gave everyone windowed mode in the process though.
I'm talking about the core of the game. The components that still rely so heavily on the CPU because of the emulation. The reason why your graphics card snoozes while your CPU is heating up. -
08-01-2011, 10:47 AMRhianu
Maybe SE just has amateur programers who don't know how to create things effectively.
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08-02-2011, 12:58 AMDragoy><)))°l
It could well be too much work to ditch it completely, really, due to how they originally wrote it...
I'd have to say OpenGL over DirectX, though, but no one will be asking me (haha), and it really is not worth a discussion in my honest opinion because I can't imagine any major changes to the code happening, ever, and even if they would go ferit, they wouldn't ask me, or probably anyone else. \ö/
Again, just my thoughts~ -
08-02-2011, 01:44 AMElexiaIndeed! Which is why we all hated their games in the 80s and 90s and why the company went bankrupt even after their final attempt at creating a successful game series.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhianu
Sorry SE, you don't exist, you've heard it here first.
By the by: Removing PS2 support doesn't instantly make FFXI better or the possibility to become better as it's built around the PS2 and the whole reason they made FFXIV was because they didn't want to rejuvinate FFXI and decided it would have been better to create a new project (which generally it is much more wise to do so.) -
08-02-2011, 02:31 AMRunespiderFFXI used to be Squares baby, it's flagship MMO. Now it's just a cash cow to be run as cheaply as possible and with as little money spent on updates/additions as they can without people rage quitting. That's just simply how it is, don't expect things like what happened with everquest and don't expect expensive additions/changes either.Quote:
If Everquest can upgrade the game from DX8 to DX9 (and even to 9.0c) and go from crashing when fullscreen is lost, to being able to window, and can change its whole chat system to be a cross-game system, then SE can do it too.
FFXI is DX8 based, just like EQ was.
It's basically a matter of what SE thinks the future of FFXI is worth. A gradual upgrade to DX9 would allow things like:
Complex Shaders
GPU Shadows
Alt-Tab in fullscreen
DX 9 light sources!
Reflective water (part of shaders)
Cloth simulation (that would be really tough, EQ1 was able to add it though).
Anyways the point was POL Viewer sucks and this is a great time to greatly reduce mess it is.
FFXI is still a great game but with how Square are now viewing it I'm not sure how long that will last.
Abyssea was the last hurrah for FFXI. -
08-02-2011, 04:34 AMRAISTYeah.. I'd like to see what could be done with it in OGL too...especially with the new versions of it. That is a really nice API--just look at what they've done with it in Linux. But....all hail the almighty MS-Intel alliance circa late 20th century. Guess not enough time has passed for people to take a gamble on the alternative technologies just yet.....one day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoy
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08-02-2011, 07:32 AMEadieni
Well OpenGL would allow them to make a Mac OSX version of FFXI if they wanted.
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08-02-2011, 08:04 AMAtomic_SkullRemoving it completely isn't really possible because it's very entangled with FFXI functions (friend list and ingame messages, screenshots and other things). The best they could do is reduce it to a launcher. They could remove the whole POL screen and have it go from the logon screen directly to a redesigned FFXI prelauncher that includes screenshot album management and other FFXI related functions that used to be handled from the POL screen .Quote:
Originally Posted by Eadieni
Also I really don't want to have to keep track of my accounts myself, I'd rather have the game keep a list of my accounts and just provide my SE ID and password + OTP to log on.
A third issue with removing POL is something that annoyed my about FFXIV. With FFXI you can stay logged into POL while changing graphics settings. With FFXIV you had to completely log out of the game to do this. -
08-02-2011, 08:13 AMAtomic_SkullOpenGL is what they are going to have to use if they port it to the PS Vita because that's what non Windows ARM+PowerVR based mobile devices use as their 3D API.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eadieni
More like they were too busy with working on Crystal Tools to bother. If they made a 360 version they must have DirectX 9 code for FFXI because there is no DirectX 8 on the Xbox 360.Quote:
Originally Posted by RAIST
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08-02-2011, 08:27 AMAtomic_SkullFFXI already has cloth simulation, they just don't use it for player models because too many characters with dynamic cloth would bring the PS2 to it's knees. Two examples are Aldo's and Cornelia's cloaks. FFXI's graphics engine can do a LOT more than you might imagine, but they have to limit what they do with it because of the PS2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eadieni
Some examples I found on youtube.
Katana with dynamic tassles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxvUwWzjGhs
Light staff with cloth ribbon attached.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xinBNaM8zpY
Flag attached to character
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKtl969JLGE
One look at Crystal Tools will tell you the whole story. They spent 5 years building an engine with a 2006 feature set and 2011 hardware requirements.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elexia
Yes and we all saw how well that worked out for them. FFXIV was designed as a new game to replace FFXI and it is now a failed project.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elexia
If you have a game with a loyal fanbase you don't throw that game away and start over, you build on what you have that's already working. This is why EVE Online actually increases it's subscribers every year and why Blizzard decided to do Cataclysm instead of World of Warcraft 2. -
08-02-2011, 08:35 AMZumi
POL serves as a launcher for PS2 and Xbox360 so its not going anywhere.