Bard ~ Job Manifesto

Not being a full time Bard(partial retired a few years back lvl 60) I found some things disturbing.

~Why does Corsair get 3 rolls and bards don't?

Possible solutions I can think of...

Re-categorize the types of bard song available and offer a single buff "3rd song" that ISN'T overwritten by normal AoE songs.
Even more specific, the stat song are completely underutilized and with a Scholar's Stormsurge pointless. Not to mention every bard song overwrites itself, so giving players a stat boost will overwrite itself next song sung.

This "3rd" song option would increase song use across the spectrum.

In most situations x2 march trumps anything cor can give not to mention 9/tic balled is lovely(for those of us with out a G horn :( ). When cor gets a there third roll i might here " Hey Areola come on out on Cor" someday. I haven't herd that seance i leveled Brd, and then i leveled whm... but that's a different story

BRD can get 3 songs, we just have to make a dam Empy to get it. That's probably how SE sees it.

I sony see COR so underpowered that he need a 3 roll to conpensate.

I hope SE have something in mind for us.

Everybody wants new toys to play with.

Having to clear one of the most difficult empy, isnt right.

Gjallarhorn is better than empy because quality is better than quantity. As stated in the manifesto, they intend to give bard a JA that will double the power of one song (like using soul voice). Granted it will probably be 20 minute recast, but with troubadour, my songs last 6 minutes currently and I could get them longer than that if I get carwenhan which means one soul voiced song for about 1/3 of the time.

Bard is my primary main, corsair is my secondary main. Both are good jobs, though corsair is a little less powerful in most situations.

imo, the biggest thing I want for bard is a fix to that annoying bug where songs fail to overwrite if there's over 2 minutes remaining on it. (ballad 2 >> ballad 3 >> troubadour ballad 2 = song has no effect)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Gjallarhorn is better than empy because quality is better than quantity. As stated in the manifesto, they intend to give bard a JA that will double the power of one song (like using soul voice). Granted it will probably be 20 minute recast, but with troubadour, my songs last 6 minutes currently and I could get them longer than that if I get carwenhan which means one soul voiced song for about 1/3 of the time.

Bard is my primary main, corsair is my secondary main. Both are good jobs, though corsair is a little less powerful in most situations.

imo, the biggest thing I want for bard is a fix to that annoying bug where songs fail to overwrite if there's over 2 minutes remaining on it. (ballad 2 >> ballad 3 >> troubadour ballad 2 = song has no effect)

---

The first part isn't true in the slightest.

Currently, the only song atm that remains uncapped is Scherzo (possibly Minuet V too for the poorly geared Brds w/o Merits... can't remember tbh)

Gjallarhorn is really only good for Ballad and Scherzo, among many other useful traits it has though (Wind based March +3 is nice if you don't want to hit Mages in certain areas, etc.)

It'll prove to be extremely useful when the next March Tier is released due to the skill on it. Still, Gjallarhorn doesn't seem special enough imo. What it should really have is it's own, exclusive song (Similar to how each Relic Weapon gets its own Weaponskill). Idk what kinda song it'd be, but there's a lot of room to do something creative with an exclusive song for Gjallarhorn. I feel like "Glory 'something'" would be an appropriate song title lol

Anyways, as it currently stands at the 90 Cap, Daurdabla is definitely a better instrument than Gjallarhorn overall. The nice thing though is that you can have both!! lol Aiming for Daurdabla AND Gjallarhorn is optimal!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yinnyth

imo, the biggest thing I want for bard is a fix to that annoying bug where songs fail to overwrite if there's over 2 minutes remaining on it. (ballad 2 >> ballad 3 >> troubadour ballad 2 = song has no effect)

---

Blegh, forgot to mention that I completely agree with this! >.<

Howdy! Here's some love for bards :)

Quote:

---

Fix the range variations for effects from songs when using stringed instruments.

---

We are looking into addressing this.

Quote:

---

Make it so a songs effect area is focused on the party member targeted instead of the bard.

---

It was set to focus on the bard since it is the same concept as white mage’s bar-spells. Since songs have the advantage that they cannot be interrupted by enemy attacks, we plan to leave it as it is for now and allow you to decide the area of effect by your placement.

Quote:

---

Make it so song effects also influence by your stats.

---

Since song effects increase with skill, we have no plans of making it so stats influence it as well.

Quote:

---

Increase wind/string/singing skill to A.

---

In the case of songs, they are based on the combination of instrument skill + singing skill, so it is quite different from skills that rely on just a single skill. Due to this, if there is a necessity to adjust accuracy, instead of adjusting skill ranks, we are considering adjusting the calculation of the accuracy rates themselves.

Quote:

---

Revamp the resist rate of requiem.

---

The development team would definitely like to do something about this and are planning to revamp it.

Quote:

---

Reduce the recast time on Pianissimo and Tenuto.

---

Since the amount of gear that reduces song recast time has increased, we would like to make adjustments to go along with this.

Quote:

---

Make it possible to use Pianissimo and Tenuto at the same time.

---

Unfortunately, since this would require us to totally remake and rebalance Pianissimo and Tenuto this is a difficult thing to do.

Quote:

---

Revamp the stats on songs that enhance resistances to status ailments.

---

It’s true that when compared to the benefits other songs provide, it’s pretty hard to prioritize these songs, so we would like to do something about it.

Quote:

---

Make Etude/Prelude an AoE effect.

---

We will look into this. In regards to Prelude though, depending on the number of party members that have ranged attacks, it might get pretty crazy having to use Pianissimo each time. Is that going to be a problem?

Quote:

---

Make Adventurer’s Dirge an AoE effect.

---

We would like to look into this along with the merit point revamps.

Quote:

---

Will Massacre Elegy be added?

---

We have plans to. However, when considering the stats, we are planning to make it so this isn’t a song that can be used by just anyone.

Quote:

---

Add a song that enhances magical accuracy.

---

Since you can already enhance your magical accuracy through the use of a lot of equipment, we are thinking it would be more beneficial to give party members a different kind of song effect.
(For example, perhaps a song that reduces an enemy’s magical defense, etc.)



Also in response to your feedback about the seeming lack of power of Gjallarhorn, the development team mentioned that there is a difference in song accuracy between Gjallarhorn and Daurdabla, and when casting songs on enemies, Gjallarhorn wins out. During the next version update it will also be possible to further enhance the Gjallarhorn.

I've just thought of something...as we approach lvl99 why does bard still have the separate "song" paths? Would you foggier that a "grandmaster" bard could wieve a song that boosts and have several effects?

With the Abyssea atma system, we have a basis of what I'm requesting. A song that has 3 effects...1 major, 1 medium, and 1 small effect. For example, rather than simply giving bard Mage ballad 4, SE could give a song that gives effect 1 major refresh, 1 medium conserve mp, and 1 minor MaB. Another song could give ACC major, ATT medium, and 1 crit minor.

I'm not a bard, but this simple change could make bards amazing. Not to mention SE could still keep the "2 song" only model.

what about another song effect other than daudabla?
maybe a new merit ability?

If that doesn't say that the G Horn is getting Massacre Elegy at 95 I don't know what does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camate

Also in response to your feedback about the seeming lack of power of Gjallarhorn, the development team mentioned that there is a difference in song accuracy between Gjallarhorn and Daurdabla, and when casting songs on enemies, Gjallarhorn wins out. During the next version update it will also be possible to further enhance the Gjallarhorn.

---

Do people use daurdabla to cast on monsters?

Bard really should just get a natural third song as all it has is buffing and light support.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camate

Howdy! Here's some love for bards :)

---

Thank you for the update, Camate! I still have some questions I hope you can find the time to answer:

• In addition to the confirmed song that reduces an enemy's magical defense, can we hope to see a song or two that increases our party's magical defense?

• Can we hope to see some songs available to cast on players outside of our party? (Much like single-target enhancing spells or Dancer waltzes and such.)

• We have a Job Ability that reduces an area of effect song to a single target. Instead of remodeling songs to be area of effect like someone mentioned, can we expect to see a Job Ability that allows a single target song to expand to an area of effect in a way much like Pianissimo? (I feel that would create less hassle from how we already understand songs like the Preludes and Etudes)

• Can you reveal Horde Lullaby II? :P

Thank you again for replying, we really appreciate it! ^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camate

~Will Massacre Elegy be added?

We have plans to. However, when considering the stats, we are planning to make it so this isn’t a song that can be used by just anyone.

~~~~~~~~~~

Also in response to your feedback about the seeming lack of power of Gjallarhorn, the development team mentioned that there is a difference in song accuracy between Gjallarhorn and Daurdabla, and when casting songs on enemies, Gjallarhorn wins out. During the next version update it will also be possible to further enhance the Gjallarhorn.

---

If the note about Massacre Elegy is in regards to making it a -Gjallarhorn Only- song, you will have made me and maaaaaaaaany other Brds (and people in general) extremely happy. That would be the perfect buff for Gjallarhorn.

HOWEVER.

As excited as I was about the part with Massacre Elegy, I couldn't believe what I was reading about the Dev. Team's comments about "Gjallarhorn's lack of power."

FIRST: THE REASON WHY GJALLARHORN IS MORE ACCURATE THAN DAURDABLA IS BECAUSE IT'S A WIND INSTRUMENT. We've known for literally 10 years now that wind instruments are naturally more accurate than String instruments. Hell, a lvl 1 Flute is probably more accurate than a Daurdabla when it comes to landing Elegy. X.X (Even considering the +40 skill on Daurdabla).

SECOND: Landing Debuffs isn't really the problem with Gjallarhorn at the moment... A Brd without Gjallarhorn can land songs pretty easily on anything that won't require Elemental Seal (Honestly, the only relevant mobs that really resist Elegy atm are a few of the ToA inspired mobs like Dhorme Khimaira in the Heroes Zones)

THIRD: DOES THE DEV. TEAM REALLY THINK BARD'S ARE DEBUFFING WITH DAURDABLA!?!?!?!? A Bard that has worked hard enough to get through all the Colorless souls/Apademak Horns to complete their Daurdabla is (hopefully) not dumb enough to be using their Daurdabla as a full-time debuff instrument too... Daurdabla is literally only meant for one thing (a really nice "one thing" though), and that's for a Third Buff. We KNOW it's not meant to be used as a Debuff instrument. Seriously, Dev. Team? Seriously?? x.x


I'm really hoping that Massacre Elegy comment alluded to it being given to Gjallarhorn owners, if not... Gjallarhorn's probably screwed. x.x

I would really like to see Bard have a trait or something to let them walk and cast songs at the same time. It is always an annoyance when someone will move slightly as i'm casting a song or just started to. Would just be nice to be able to close that gap and land the song on them without having to recast it.

I see nothing about March, therefore there is nothing that is important.

lol jk though, the magic defense down bit seems totally awesome. <- Highlight

It's silly to debuff with Daurdabla because in addition to having no effect on song potency, it also has no effect on song duration. I highly doubt that SE is not aware of this.

Quote:

---

Make Etude/Prelude an AoE effect.
We will look into this. In regards to Prelude though, depending on the number of party members that have ranged attacks, it might get pretty crazy having to use Pianissimo each time. Is that going to be a problem?

---

in response to it being a problem:

Quote:

---

We have a Job Ability that reduces an area of effect song to a single target. Instead of remodeling songs to be area of effect like someone mentioned, can we expect to see a Job Ability that allows a single target song to expand to an area of effect in a way much like Pianissimo? (I feel that would create less hassle from how we already understand songs like the Preludes and Etudes)

---

This is not that different from Accession and i think it's a REALLY good idea. I would LOVE to give my whole party STR Etudes in one go as opposed to casting it on each person. Yet much like Accession and Storm Spells you could still give one person the individual buff they prefer or find most useful to them.

Also at first i thought Pianissimo is 15 sec recast why would need to shorten the recast as someone mentioned, then i thought of all the gear i have that reduces song cast time and all the times i've sat and waited for it to be up, and i thought, well it could probably use a little shorter recast, maybe through merits or an addition to gear of some sort.

I really hope BRD does get March III, there's really no other way to let BRD use any other songs than March I+II w/o having two bards.

There's some really silly discussion going on here. I'm not sure I understand where some people are coming from. I'm a career Bard and have been for 8 years now. I want nothing more than to see meaningful adjustments and additions to the job. It seems to me that certain people posting here just don't know that much about the job.

Daurdabla does affect song potency (through singing and string skill) and duration (read the description, seriously). However, it's still stupid to cast elegy without using an elegy instrument (Syrinx), or lullaby without using a lullaby instrument (Pan's Horn), so yes, using Daurdabla to debuff doesn't make a lot of sense.

People are still so down on string skill. Yes, wind skill has more landing accuracy than string skill. Yes, we have known this for 8+ years. However, if you can't land a song on a mob with a string instrument, there is something wrong with you. Landing elegy more easily with a level 1 flute than Daurdabla with +40 skill? Really? Yes, I understand sarcasm, but you seem ignorant about string skill. Maybe people complaining about song range in this thread should look into string skill, since that's its advantage over wind skill. Before the level cap increase, I preferred using harps for finale and finale, and it was almost never a problem. With the recent merit point additions, I now have fully meritted string skill in addition to my fully meritted singing and wind skill. I also have a macro set for full string+ gear. I don't use it often, but it's there.

People honestly still think that there is NEVER a better song combination than 2x March? Despite higher tiers of other songs and the incredibly useful Scherzo, you guys still agree that I may as well have only bought/quested ballads and marches? Awesome, I want you in my endgame shell. (Told you I understand sarcasm.)

Still, there were some great ideas posted here. When pianissimo was first mentioned as a possible update, I expected fortissimo to naturally follow (as others posted, it would turn a single target effect into an AOE effect. I personally think SE could even implement it as an effect that turns a single-party song into a full-alliance song if they were to give it a long recast time so as to not make it overpowered). I'm surprised it never materialized in some form. By the way, doesn't anyone remember that etudes were originally AOE buffs and SE changed them like 7 years ago to be single-target? Making them AOE again is really not a good idea, but implementing fortissimo with them in mind (as others here have pointed out) makes good sense.

I've also always wanted SE to make those buff resistance songs more useful. My idea is for them to allow them (and only them) as a 3rd song buff. They may still get ignored, but they could be potentially useful. However, using them in place of any of our normal songs is ridiculous. There are even 2 tiers of Operetta (silence resistance). Hell, they're even stackable! Seriously, wtf is that about?

I personally don't think Massacre Elegy should be Gjallarhorn-only, but I wouldn't complain if they did that. It would be a nice specific stat for relic owners. I just like the idea more of making it obtainable through a quest or series of quests like the original AF set. It shouldn't be easy to obtain, but I don't think it needs to be as difficult as making and upgrading a relic.

We should definitely be getting another march tier soon. We got new tiers of everything else; it just makes sense. If SE won't do it because of haste caps, then they need to rethink the haste caps. Same deal on Horde Lullaby II. It's just time for it.

I really can't get that excited about a magic defense song. It will be nice to have, and I'll probably use it on every mob right after I elegy it, but it's such a small thing, and really something we just should have had a long time ago. SE should be giving us more than 1 new offensive song and (probably) new tiers of existing songs. Whenever they add rolls to COR, they get brand new things. I want a regain song or a TH song or a MATT buff or really just anything new. They added Scherzo and it's amazing -- we need more new things to get excited about.

We'll probably get Foe's Requiem VIII in the next update. I normally wouldn't even care, but SE is promising to revamp it, so here's hoping. How ridiculous is it that a BRD/WHM can land Dia II easily on a mob but can't land Requiem VII on the same mob? This is so long overdue, but I'm glad SE finally noticed.

Retsujo posted an idea to cast songs outside of the party. I like this idea. Right now, especially with song duration+ gear, a BRD can cast 2-3 sets of songs, debuff the mob, throw in a few cures, and still have a bunch of downtime. What if that BRD could pop a new ability and sing single-target etudes/preludes on alliance members not in the party? It would be a good use of time and is probably easy for SE to implement.

I should post again soon with ideas I have for the job. I haven't posted here before despite reading the threads often and following the dev posts closely. I'm sure it therefore seems pretty lame to people reading this that I was complaining about other people's posts. However, I'm not here to criticize. I just love BRD and want people to properly understand it; and I want SE to give us some new toys to make our jobs more fun. ^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jackalman

I just love BRD and want people to properly understand it; and I want SE to give us some new toys to make our jobs more fun. ^^

---

Unfortunately a lot of people grow with a job doing mostly one thing with it and get no real opportunities to learn the "waterfalls" for what the job's worth so they just stick to "the rivers and the lakes" that they're used to.

I apologize for the TLC reference :3

I'm not a fan of the idea that M.Elegy will be a Ghorn only song, but I understand it I guess.

I hope there's an alternative way to get it, like the fake relics with the WS if that's the case.

Also agree completely with what Jackalman said.

Simply put, BRD needs more abilities, and preferably more songs that assist Mages. It's bad when you don't need Ballads due to Atma, so you resort to marching the mages, there should be a fast cast song imo.

I really hope you're not going to keep BRD the way it is at the moment, because in reality it's a pretty boring job how it stands. I personally love the job and I have done since I've levelled it, but I feel like I could be playing many other roles at the same time, and that's a bad thing. BRD was always about being busy and keeping on top of things, but it really doesn't feel like that any more. You buff the DD (And mages if they require it, which is rarely), Debuff the mob... and then become a surrogate WHM for a minute or so, then re-apply buffs/debuffs.

I want to be changing my songs depending on the situation (Which does happen occasionally with Scherzo and carols).

I want to feel like buffing the mages is as much of a priority as buffing the DD.

I want BRD to become hectic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camate

We will look into this. In regards to Prelude though, depending on the number of party members that have ranged attacks, it might get pretty crazy having to use Pianissimo each time. Is that going to be a problem?

---

No problem a simple macro can't fix. :)

I honestly don't think AOEing prelude is the biggest concern with the job really. Maybe it's just me, but I haven't partied with a ranger lately, let alone more than one. And even if I did, most of them prefer minuet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jackalman

There's some really silly discussion going on here. I'm not sure I understand where some people are coming from. I'm a career Bard and have been for 8 years now. I want nothing more than to see meaningful adjustments and additions to the job. It seems to me that certain people posting here just don't know that much about the job.

Daurdabla does affect song potency (through singing and string skill) and duration (read the description, seriously). However, it's still stupid to cast elegy without using an elegy instrument (Syrinx), or lullaby without using a lullaby instrument (Pan's Horn), so yes, using Daurdabla to debuff doesn't make a lot of sense.

---

Do you think that the potency of Debuffs is affected by Skill?

It's not. It only affects Resist rates.

Do you think that "Increases Song Effect Duration" affects the duration of Debuffs?

It doesn't. It only affects Buff Songs, similar to AF3 Neck, AF3+1/2 Body, and Carnwenhan.

That part of your post implies that you were regarding using Debuffs with a Daurdabla. If you don't actually know what Skill or "Increases Song Effect Duration" actually does for Debuffs, don't post about it, be wrong, and then proceed call the OP ignorant in the next section below...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jackalman

People are still so down on string skill. Yes, wind skill has more landing accuracy than string skill. Yes, we have known this for 8+ years. However, if you can't land a song on a mob with a string instrument, there is something wrong with you. Landing elegy more easily with a level 1 flute than Daurdabla with +40 skill? Really? Yes, I understand sarcasm, but you seem ignorant about string skill. Maybe people complaining about song range in this thread should look into string skill, since that's its advantage over wind skill. Before the level cap increase, I preferred using harps for finale and finale, and it was almost never a problem. With the recent merit point additions, I now have fully meritted string skill in addition to my fully meritted singing and wind skill. I also have a macro set for full string+ gear. I don't use it often, but it's there.

---

First bolded statement is irrelevant. You shouldn't be debuffing with Elegy using a String Instrument anyways. Only acceptable debuff with Stringed is Horde Lullaby and possibly Threnody with Sorrowful Harp (although it's hardly worth it for Sorrowful Harp's case and definitely isn't as accurate as a Piccolo +1.)

Yes, +40 Skill is quite a lot, but a Wind-based Instrument will probably still beat it out, or at least match it on resist rate. Iirc, Debuff instruments like Lullaby +2 only add to duration and potency, not resist rate. (Ex: Nursemaid's Harp vs. Mary's Horn back in the day for Foe Lullaby) You cannot tell me the gap in resist rate/half resists/etc. with a Wind Instrument and a String Instrument isn't small when debuffing anything worth a crap. I'm sorry, you just can't. <.<

In the end, it's all a pointless endeavor anyways because you won't be debuffing with Daurdabla...

Also, "finale and finale"? :p

Underlined Portion: No one cares, first of all. <.< And a "String gear set" is literally like... 2 extra Pieces compared to Wind: String Torque and Marduk's Crackows... Other than possibly using it for String Debuffs, there is no point for this. The only reason why you may need the Skill is if it can bump you up another tier in range on Chocobo Mazurka. (Maybe with Ballad III if you need the range, but that's hardly needed and usually the opposite x.x)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jackalman

I personally don't think Massacre Elegy should be Gjallarhorn-only, but I wouldn't complain if they did that. It would be a nice specific stat for relic owners. I just like the idea more of making it obtainable through a quest or series of quests like the original AF set. It shouldn't be easy to obtain, but I don't think it needs to be as difficult as making and upgrading a relic.

---

Massacre Elegy is 100% Slow. Even if SE lowers that to 75% for Players, that's just insane. Through a quest, every single Brd out there could get it and become such an overpowered job. I'm sure SE would have to make the most annoying quest to even let this happen on a fair scale (worse than Black Belt in its current state <.<).

I'd much rather see this as an exclusive song to Gjallarhorn. Something to truly separate a Gjallarhorn Brd from a regular Brd. Such power should only be deserved for the Bards (and their Linkshells) who have put themselves through the trouble of getting a Gjallarhorn and putting it through its trials (granted the Trials are pretty easy).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jackalman

We should definitely be getting another march tier soon. We got new tiers of everything else; it just makes sense. If SE won't do it because of haste caps, then they need to rethink the haste caps. Same deal on Horde Lullaby II. It's just time for it.

---

For those who haven't seen, a song dat was added in the latest Dat Mining vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYzNO...layer_embedded

Found around the 2min mark. Looks to highly be a Third Tier of March, hopefully to be available to players. Would be really shocked if it wasn't since it's as you say "Just makes sense." It won't change the Haste Cap or anything though... Would just allow for you to hit the magical haste cap more easily. And I agree with you and the others, Horde Lullaby II definitely needs to be coming too! >.<

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jackalman

SE should be giving us more than 1 new offensive song and (probably) new tiers of existing songs. Whenever they add rolls to COR, they get brand new things. I want a regain song or a TH song or a MATT buff or really just anything new. They added Scherzo and it's amazing -- we need more new things to get excited about.

---

Agree 100%. That's the one thing that always makes me a little jealous of Cor Buffs, they're all so different and pretty original. They still lack haste, and always will, but still... :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jackalman

I'm sure it therefore seems pretty lame to people reading this that I was complaining about other people's posts. However, I'm not here to criticize. I just love BRD and want people to properly understand it; and I want SE to give us some new toys to make our jobs more fun. ^^

---

I'm in the exact same boat; I wouldn't make such long posts if I wasn't. But I will criticize your own post if you dare to call me ignorant of Bard. Especially when your own post is riddled with bits of wrong info and silly logic.

As stated, Daurdabla is strictly a buffing instrument and really shouldn't ever be used for debuffs. I was very disappointed when I realized that I couldn't use it for horde but eh, what're you gonna do. I do like the freedom of a third song, which has allowed me to use scherzo, carols, minuets, madrigals, or whatever the situation calls for.

Aegis got a big boost the last update. Level 90 relics also got significant weapon skill damage boosts. As a Ghorn owner I'd be pretty happy with an exclusive song to separate the instrument from the other +3 instruments. If it's Massacre Elegy, I would be thrilled.

Hi, make a magic attack song(s). We can already give haste songs and attack songs that work for attack and ranged attack, let us play some most excellent tunes for our beloved nukers of the world. Or here is an idea, make it so minuets affect magic attack tooooooo O-O. I like this idea, I play Bard a lot and would love to play more than refresh songs, marches, etudes, and elegy. I WANT TO BE THE DJ HERO ME PLOZ

There needs to be more mage friendly songs. Ballads only gets a bit boring. You want Mages to be excited about having a BRD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camate

We will look into this. In regards to Prelude though, depending on the number of party members that have ranged attacks, it might get pretty crazy having to use Pianissimo each time. Is that going to be a problem?

---

Positioning alleviates this problem and even if not, it would be better to Pianissimo one RNG than Prelude 5.

I'll admit to not knowing about the "song effect duration" being applied to debuffs. I never tested it and don't really use that gear in my debuff set anyway. Seems strange to me, but you seem to know what you're talking about, so I'll take you at your word. I also know that skill does not affect potency. I was not thinking properly when I read it and thought you were referring to resist rates. Since Daurdabla has no +1/2/3 to any songs, it does nothing to actual potency and therefore really shouldn't be used except for the 3rd song buff or if the skill is needed to land a debuff and you don't have a Gjallarhorn. I really just misread what you said and I apologize.

As for me saying "finale and finale", that's what I get for not proofreading. I meant lullaby and finale. I still keep nursemaid's harp on me for occasional use. I use sorrowful harp for threnody still, and I used military harp for finale up until better options were pretty recently added. I always preferred maximum duration to the small chance of having a higher resist rate by not using a wind instrument.

I was assuming SE would gimp massacre elegy somewhat. If they keep it at 100%, then Gjallarorn-only makes sense. In that case, they could make an in-between tier elegy that could be quested for non-Gjallarhorn bards. Just an idea.

I still disagree with 40 skill being worthless compared to simply using a wind instrument. Without looking it up right now, 1 skill is supposed to be worth 0.5 MACC or 0.5 CHR or something. You honestly think that using a level 1 flute compensates for this simply because it is a wind instrument? I can't believe that could possibly be true. Having a +1/2/3 to the song effect only affects potency and duration as you said, not resist rate. However, I assume you have a debuff set with a ton of MACC and CHR, so why should landing songs using a stringed instrument be a problem? Even if you use string gear to maximize your aoe range, this has a significant impact on lowering resist rates as well. Your arguments seem to suggest that we are debuffing naked except for an instrument.

I'm not really sure how my post was "riddled with bits of wrong info and silly logic" since you only called me out on the one thing. We obviously are both coming from the same place here. I'm not trying to criticize, but I'mn stating factual information just as you are. We should probably just meet for a beer and discuss the finer points of bardery.

I really believe a lot of Bards will retire the job if Massacre Elegy is limited to Gjallarhorn exclusively. What point would there be to continue playing the job otherwise? Knowing this playerbase, you and I know exactly what will happen if a Bard tries to get into an event without it. I could transcribe it word for word, but that isn't necessary. You're reading it in your mind as you read this post.

One thing I'd like to see is a more diverse array of enfeebling songs (Requiem, Elegy, and Threnody isn't quite active enough for my liking). A Terror-based song, maybe? Confusion?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hayward

I really believe a lot of Bards will retire the job if Massacre Elegy is limited to Gjallarhorn exclusively. What point would there be to continue playing the job otherwise? Knowing this playerbase, you and I know exactly what will happen if a Bard tries to get into an event without it. I could transcribe it word for word, but that isn't necessary. You're reading it in your mind as you read this post.

One thing I'd like to see is a more diverse array of enfeebling songs (Requiem, Elegy, and Threnody isn't quite active enough for my liking). A Terror-based song, maybe? Confusion?

---

Why would anyone quit just from losing out on a song that they've lived without for years? I think the community is getting kind of spoiled, I mean we really got about half of one level cap raise's content every year previously. You just didn't notice you were getting next to nothing because the content took you forever to do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hayward

I really believe a lot of Bards will retire the job if Massacre Elegy is limited to Gjallarhorn exclusively. What point would there be to continue playing the job otherwise? Knowing this playerbase, you and I know exactly what will happen if a Bard tries to get into an event without it. I could transcribe it word for word, but that isn't necessary. You're reading it in your mind as you read this post.

---

I doubt it will be any worse than being a TH3 Thief in your endgame linkshell back at lv75.

Yes this will be terrible for non-ghorn brds who will be forced to raid on a different job. I really, really feel for you guys, having to come on BLU one day, WAR another day, NIN another day... But not me! I get to come BRD every day!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Creelo

Do you think that the potency of Debuffs is affected by Skill?

It's not. It only affects Resist rates.

---

Requiem has a soft cap on its damage, no? Similar to paeons, you can break a skill barrier and suddenly requiem 7 does 8 damage/tick instead of 7.

Something I'm confused about is just before the post by Camate, you disagree with me and claim that Daurdabla is better for bards than Gjallarhorn:

Quote:

---

Gjallarhorn is really only good for Ballad and Scherzo, among many other useful traits it has though (Wind based March +3 is nice if you don't want to hit Mages in certain areas, etc.)

It'll prove to be extremely useful when the next March Tier is released due to the skill on it.

---

Which I disagree with. I think a third march would actually be better for Derpa than Ghorn. And after Camate's post, you seem shocked at his comments regarding Gjallarhorn getting another level tier next update:

Quote:

---

As excited as I was about the part with Massacre Elegy, I couldn't believe what I was reading about the Dev. Team's comments about "Gjallarhorn's lack of power."

---

In fact, Camate's comments about gjallarhorn seems to be in direct response to your comments that daurdabla is better. So I don't think he's saying gjallarhorn is underpowered anymore than you were... if you were. I can't really be certain since your 2 posts seem to be in opposition to one another what you're getting at.

There are 2 sides to this issue IF massacre elegy is made to be Gjallarhorn only,
the ones that have Gjallarhorn and the ones that do not.

The ones that have Gjallarhorn will welcome Gjallarhorn specific song as it has been
overlooked for a long time. Relic weapons and shield are all recognized when players either see
the item on their character or the weapon skill that only came with the weapon(this case for gun
and bow, as they are not seen on character unless examined like Gjallarhorn or used in battle) Gjallarhorn is unique in relics where their effect is not as noticeable unless you were a mage and specifically counted the mp/tic.

The ones that do not have Gjallarhorn will be angry that they don't have access to the song. Now some of you may say well make a weaker version of the song available via quest or some other means to non relic owners, like the weapons that allow non relic weapon holders to use the relic weapon skill. This comparison is slightly different though, because the weapons that allow non relic weapon holders to do the weapon skill are pretty much there just for fun. I've not seen any dd try to use them seriously over other weapon skills. The same cannot be said for a spell, even if it reduced in potency. Even if it is reduced to say 75% slow, granted yes 100% slow is greater than 75% slow does this really help the production of new Gjallarhorns? I seriously doubt anyone that is not currently working on Gjallarhorn would consider going after 1 instrument that would only be a ballad/scherzo/25% greater elegy instrument than a normal bard.

I know there are people out there that have said that people that own their relic now have used their Dynamis linkshell to get it, that leaders have been unfair and greedy. While I can't speak for everyone I can speak for myself. I waited a good 2 years to even fund in my dynamis linkshell(I was not a leader at the time), once I started funding I started to lead runs and even now, 2 years after I've completed my relic I'm still leading runs and helping out the linkshell. So as a relic owner I feel that I've done above and beyond what is required for one, and that a Gjallarhorn specific song is well warranted.

I for one was not pleased when +3 versions of instruments came out BEFORE Gjallarhorn got the trials to become +3 all songs. I felt that it was an insult to relic owners that newer instruments were greater than the all songs level of Gjallarhorn. Granted yes, the trials were added AFTERWARDS, but to be fair they should have been added at the same time.

I don't think massacre elegy being Gjallarhorn only would stop people from playing bard. The people that play bard are unique, in the fact that we as bards live vicariously though others. The nature of bard is to buff those around us, we don't have the personal glory of being highest damage dealer, best enfeebler, or best tank. We are there to make the party run more efficiently, our purpose is a pure support role(brd/whm).

I've never seen a DD quit just because they didn't have access to relic weapon skills before the weapons that allowed non relic weapon owners to perform the relic weapon skills, so I don't think a non relic bard would quit either from lack of a Gjallarhorn specific spell. I for one thing Massacre elegy is worthy of being a Gjallarhorn specific spell due to it's potency. It would bring at least something to the instrument, as to not be just a ballad/scherzo/inventory saver instrument. I think it would bring distinction of a bard during battle, like when we see a DD using the relic weapon skill(real relic weapon skill) where as till now we have lacked it.

SE has said before that relics are not meant for everyone, whether or not they have changed this stance remains to be seen. If not everyone is supposed to own a relic, I think it would be unfair to give a reduced powered version of massacre elegy to non relic bards(this is assuming it is added to Gjallarhorn). Comparing it to relic weapons it would be like the owners of the weapon that allows one to perform the relic weapons weapon skill asking for instead of sometimes
3x damage, a lesser degree of 1.5x damage. Gjallarhorn as well as Aegis are both in unique positions in the game, so there may not be accurate comparisons to existing methods. In my opinion the only players that would care about massacre elegy being Gjallarhorn specific are career bards, which if they are career bards I would think they would be
working for Gjallarhorn already or at least thinking about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Requiem has a soft cap on its damage, no? Similar to paeons, you can break a skill barrier and suddenly requiem 7 does 8 damage/tick instead of 7.

---

Ahhh, this is something I totally forgot about, wasn't thinking about Requiem when it came to potency of songs. Just Elegy/Lullaby/Thren. >.< Oh Requiem...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Something I'm confused about is just before the post by Camate, you disagree with me and claim that Daurdabla is better for bards than Gjallarhorn

---

Yeah lol, I said before the official Bard's Manifesto post that Daurdabla had much more overall use than Gjallarhorn at the current stage of the game, which is disappointing because of how hard Gjallarhorn is to obtain. I then went on to explain how Gjallarhorn was so lackluster. How is this confusing?

After the official Post from Camate, I said I was shocked because I couldn't believe SE was thinking that Bard's were debuffing with Daurdabla instead of their respective instruments (Since Harps are less accurate than Horns, Daurdabla doesn't provide any bonuses to debuffs, etc.). Gjallarhorn is obviously a better instrument to debuff with compared to all others. I was shocked that SE thought Brds were using a Daurdabla to debuff with and thought that Brds were contesting whether Daurdabla was a better debuff instrument than Gjallarhorn. We all already know that Gjallarhorn is a better debuff instrument, duh?

Not to mention, you can land Elegy and debuffs pretty easily without Gjallarhorn on a majority of the mobs in this game. SE clearly missed the mark when relaying that information to us... <_<

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yinnyth

In fact, Camate's comments about gjallarhorn seems to be in direct response to your comments that daurdabla is better. So I don't think he's saying gjallarhorn is underpowered anymore than you were... if you were. I can't really be certain since your 2 posts seem to be in opposition to one another what you're getting at.

---

First, the bolded doesn't really make any sense. O.o

I never said Daurdabla was a better Debuffing instrument compared to Gjallarhorn. <.<

I said that Daurdabla was a much more useful instrument as a whole compared to Gjallarhorn as of the lvl 90 Cap. The general gist of my reasoning was that Gjallarhorn only really benefits two songs atm: Ballad and Scherzo. Ballads are hardly needed anymore since they're obsolete in Abyssea, and we can get so much refresh/MP outside of Abyssea. Scherzo is such a situational song that it's not really used too much (very useful though when needed), especially because people who don't have a Daurdabla would have to give up a song like March. Thus, it's better to just use Scherzo with Daurdabla, since it can be used as the third Song and potency difference between a Daurdabla's Scherzo and a Gjallarhorn's Scherzo is quite small.

And as I said before, the skill on Gjallarhorn isn't really needed for Debuffs as of now since Brds can easily debuff most mobs without a Gjallarhorn.

Thus, Gjallarhorn is definitely less useful than a Daurdabla at this stage of the game, and that SE should increase its effectiveness (like they slowly have been for the other Relics, not to mention the Aegis buff) by giving Gjallarhorn its own, exclusive and useful song, whatever that may be. Because even if Gjallarhorn receives "All Songs +4" at the lvl 99 Cap, it's still going to be a rather lackluster instrument.

I'm not really saying statements like "Daurdabla > Gjallarhorn for EVERYTHANG!!" Obviously, it's optimal to use both. <.< But Daurdabla is going to offer way more with its Third Song than Gjallarhorn can right now at the lvl 90 Cap, and is much easier to obtain too.

Yay for basically reposting my Gjallarhorn Buff thread OP x.x Hopefully this kinda spells it out for you. <.<

*As for Gjallarhorn buffing a Third Tier of March, this is rather interesting. March III with Gjallarhorn will have more potency rather than being sung with Daurdabla since it has "All Songs +3" and there is more Wind Skill gear than String skill gear currently available. If you have a Daurdabla and are without a Gjallarhorn... it could possibly be better to sing March III as the third buff with Daurdabla due to all the skill on it... Victory March -> Song #2 -> March III I mean. Idk though, we'll see? Probably not? Who knows... Either way, you'll probably be maxing Magical Haste anyways lol. If you can cap Magical Haste without using Gjallarhorn and with Daurdabla, then it'd probably be best to sing March III with Daurdabla anyways. But this would just makes Daurdabla even more of useful than Gjallarhorn! lol

@Jackalman Sometime I'll compare debuffing with Daurdabla vs. a horn like Faerie Piccolo on something resistant to Lullaby, perhaps high-lvl Spectators in Abys. Uleguerand Range. It won't be much testing... but it won't be like 5 casts lol, I'll report back truthfully too since this is something I'm really interested in myself lol My guess though is that they'll either match eachother or the Horn will pull ahead a lil bit with getting less resists.

That was an awesome post VoiceMemo!

Was talking to a Gjallarhorn Brd, and they made a good point that it'd just be nice for SE to release new songs where the skill on Gjallarhorn was really needed to hit new and meaningful tiers. Really, it'd just be nice for SE to release more songs like that for everyone so we all could get a little more use out of our skill gear, whether we have a Gjallarhorn or not.

Skill needs to be relevant. What's the point in releasing AF3+2 when the skill on some of the pieces is effecting 2 songs only, and 2 situational songs at that.

Assuming they're not just pandering to people who are too lazy to get skills at cap that is.