Reopened: Suggestion: casual and hardcore flags.

Original found here.

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Originally Posted by Alienmonkey

I would like to propose an option to set a flag on your character in game that marks you as a casual "it's my 12.95" type player, or a min/maxing hardcore "optimize everything" type player.

It could perhaps go next to the languages in the /sea page. This would make it much easier to know what type of player you're inviting to an event in a pickup group.

This way the oppressed casuals could avoid being judged by the elite. And the elite can avoid wasting their time inviting gimps.

Thanks for your time.

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I reopened this because it was a shame that the original poster decided that the conversation wasn't going his way, so I'm here to continue with it.

My opinion:

How do you determine hardcore from casual? I'm in the middle, I could be considered a hybrid of a causal hardcore or hardcore casual player. I have really good skills, very decent gear, and knowledge of many years of playing this game. But I am also laid back and don't give a flying flip about anyone else's gameplay. Am I casual, am I hardcore, what am I?

And why should I have to determine this for myself? I should let people pick me for who I am, not for who I say I am.

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Originally Posted by Alienmonkey

A hardcore flag mage for example never lets haste drop, never lets a mob go without dia for even a second when it's needed. They macro cure clogs and aceso's choker, their inventory is maxed out because of all the situational gear they carry. A hardcore flag melee has thought about when is the optimal time to use JAs, they use the best food they can afford, they optimize their gear for what's best in the particular situation.

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You make it sound like it is a bad thing. A very bad thing to kill effectively.

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A casual flag person is someone who does not like having the pressure of win/loss on them. If their group wipes they don't want to hear "it was your fault, because you think wearing dex earrings is better than using aesir and brutal". They don't want to hear, "if you had been using food, even a meat mithkabob, we would have won". They don't want to spend time thinking about what gear is best or if they should use a different food on this particular mob, they are there to have fun and play their job how they want.

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If people don't want to win, why do they even join the party to begin with?

Plus, I don't care who I invite, as long as you don't have a history of being a lootwhore or thief.

They would also not be looking for the same group or things to do as hardcore players.

Why flag them separately?

This sounds a whole lot like pre-WWII Germany. Where a certain class of people had to wear yellow stars on their jackets to show their religious preference. Sorry, but I don't want that in this game, and I don't think a lot of people would either.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

They would also not be looking for the same group or things to do as hardcore players.

Why flag them separately?

This sounds a whole lot like pre-WWII Germany. Where a certain class of people had to wear yellow stars on their jackets to show their religious preference. Sorry, but I don't want that in this game, and I don't think a lot of people would either.

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Aw c'mon man you can't Godwin your own thread on page one.

i dont think this would matter at all everyone would just flag themselves as hardcore anyway regardless if they suck so they will get invited to raids lol

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Originally Posted by Alienmonkey

I don't understand. What do you mean I make it sound like a bad thing to kill effectively? I would flag myself as H. I think it is very good to kill effectively.

I'm not saying casual do not want to win, they just don't want to do what it takes to kill effectively. They don't want to read forums and wiki to learn game mechanics. They don't want to spend time farming and working towards better gear. They don't want to have any criticism thrown their way because they like how their character looks in X piece of equip.

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Or they are people who have kids and a full time job, and would rather just play the game with what time they do have, instead of spending it all reading wiki or the forums.

I personally think that this is a horrible idea. Not everyone would fit in these 2 catagories. If you don't want to waste your time with people you don't know because they might suck, then don't join pick up groups. Most people who would consider themselves "hardcore" players usually have ls's they do stuff with anyway, so I don't really see what the big deal is.

Look to the Mentor flag and how responsibly it's been used in the past. Now imagine this, but everyone flagged H to make themselves look better. I'll pass.

No one picks you based on who you are. They pick you based on whether or not they could use your skills at the time. That's all that FFXI has ever been since day 1. Whether or not those people know you is another story entirely.

I'm against this option. People would only stay away from the "Casual" flags and only group up with the "Hardcores." Because of this, all people would ever do is flag "Hardcore." Defeating the purpose entirely.

Pretty much what everyone else is saying, everyone would lean toward tagging themselves hardcore because they don't want to feel like nazi-era Jews in a game they're supposed to be enjoying. If you're a hardcore player, why aren't you doing these events with your ls or other hardcore players on your flist?

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Originally Posted by Kikkyo

Pretty much what everyone else is saying, everyone would lean toward tagging themselves hardcore because they don't want to feel like nazi-era Jews in a game they're supposed to be enjoying. If you're a hardcore player, why aren't you doing these events with your ls or other hardcore players on your flist?

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Exactly.

Most "hardcore" players only stay with their own group of friends, and call everyone else noob. So having a hardcore button is by itself a contradiction. Only people fooling themselves into thinking they are "hardcore" when in reality they are just like everyone else in the server.

If your going that route why not just suggest the developers do the whole wow gear score route? at least you know they arent geared gimp, says nothing for skill level.

I can understand not wanting to adhoc with gimps, and alot of people may still adhoc despite having an endgame shell, i often do so as the current focus may not always fall in line with the stuff im working towards, in which case i gather people together to get it done on my own.

Either way as its been said it'd be no different then the mentor flag, unless there was some formal system in place to allow you to flag H, even if they could come up with a way to determine those worthy of using the H flag im sure it would be incomplete, like wow gear scores, it only evaluates the players ability to loot whore and not their actual level of skill. further more such a system would only divide the player base in a very vehement way.

This idea has no utility. It's as useless as the mentor flag.

People are different. This longing to lump all hardcores as jerks who do nothing but brag about accomplishments ingame is as dumb as the idea that all casuals are too busy partying and drinking to be good at anything in XI.

I know plenty of hardcores who are willing to party with casuals so long as the casual player keeps an open mind and listens to instructions. On the flipside, plenty of casuals can get along with hardcores so long as the instructions are followed, people tell the truth and take criticism without imploding.

Most hardcore players don't have the time to be constructively criticizing other players... if you know what I mean.

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Originally Posted by Raxiaz

Most hardcore players don't have the time to be constructively criticizing other players... if you know what I mean.

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If you are talking about the BG "elite" then yeah.

If you are talking about general "elite" then generally they don't mind sharing their knowledge with others. I know I have done so from time to time.

I do it often myself. But those elite players who just start screaming for whatever reason just because of one little thing get on my nerves. You get one ruby kill in abyssea and the ignorant elite player begins shouting in caps at the player. Like really?

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Originally Posted by Raxiaz

I do it often myself. But those elite players who just start screaming for whatever reason just because of one little thing get on my nerves. You get one ruby kill in abyssea and the ignorant elite player begins shouting in caps at the player. Like really?

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Oh, my friends and I make fun of that all the time.

If I do a 8k Raging Rush on "accident" and kill the mob/NM and cause a ruby, my friend goes "omgruby" and such. I usually point it at the ninja and/or blm and blame it on him.

Most actual hardcore players don't invite people they don't know to anything. Just saying.

Using /sea and /sh and being on /sea and /sh is basically the same as a casual tag as is.

I don't know about /sea part though. /sh I agree with.

See, when I'm doing a trial and don't mind the company, I would do a /sea for anyone who wants to do that same trial to join me, that way, we get the job done faster with the two of us instead of solo.

But sure, I'm not doing Glavoid with anyone other than my shellmates.

You can't really just take two phrases and expect them to apply to all players... my gear is pretty close to optimal:

Vereth85/-/-/Tantra
Tantra+2/Faith/Brutal/Aesir
Tantra+2/Tantra+2/Epona/Rajas
Atheling/BlackBelt/Tantra+2/Tantra+2

Tons of stuff swapped in for Chakra/WS/ChiBlast... a full PDT and MDT setup, maxed merits, etc... Pretty much optimized, aside from finishing Verethagna.

And yet, I wouldn't consider myself a "hardcore" player. I haven't capped my guard, I refused to sit around "camping" HNM, I don't "demand" debuffs on the monsters and haste on myself at all times. The only thing I actually complain about magewise is when I'm left with slow/paralyze/virus/whatever for a period of time or if a black mage mindlessly nukes a mob, pulls hate and doesn't use Enmity Douse.

Overall, I'm pretty laid back as long as the fight goes smoothly... it doesn't need to be 100% textbook flawless... That doesn't make me a good or bad player really - it mostly comes down to common sense.

Being able to select a flag for H or C would still require me to ask you 20 questions because inherently if you are ignorant in your gameplay you would be ignorant in selecting your flag.

I find most people who think they've got their gameplay going well, don't. There are maybe 2 or 3 tanks I trust in Abyssea land, 2 I trust outside, 1 WHM I trust, 2 RDM I trust, and DD wise, well that's limited to maybe 4 or 5 across jobs.

Most of those are the same people on different jobs.

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Originally Posted by Valaris

i dont think this would matter at all everyone would just flag themselves as hardcore anyway regardless if they suck so they will get invited to raids lol

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invited to raids

invited to raids
to raids
raids

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Originally Posted by Alienmonkey

If you have really good skills and accurate knowledge of the game then that is probably enough to flag yourself as H.

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I have seen countless examples of people who think their knowledge of the game is accurate, when they in fact have no f**king clue what they are talking about.

If anything, I think something like this would cause even more confusion and arguing between people. Some may view themselves hardcore when in fact they aren't, and there is a large amount of people that would most likely see themselves as something inbetween casual and hardcore - like many have already pointed out.

Are you the same tamoa that posted all those funny glitch pictures?

I still have to ask about some NMs and if I have fought them in awhile I rather ask before just winging it. I use /sea and sh as well for trial mobs when I get to camp to see if anyone might have logged in or zone in while I was omw to the camp.

Maybe after bumping this he'll open his thread again.

This will never end well anyways. It's not an NA-only game.

What do you think the reaction would be like if JP players could put up an "H" tag?

Think about that a moment.

I don't understand why this was posted anyways?

Like most have said Hardcore players have friends / linkshells they they run with ignoring most everyone else. Casual players just kind of go with the flow. This to me sounds like an idea from someone that has no friends left and is sick of dealing with idiots.

Personally I am casual. Would I flag myself as such? No. I play anon, I have my own friends to do stuff with, and when they are not on FF offers enough alternatives to not deal with others. Do I kill efficiently? No. Do I research mobs? No Do I get wins? Hellz Ya! We have a blast seeing how bad ass a monster is the first time we meet it and if we wipe then we research and try again. We make the game fun and avoid scrubs.

If you require random shouts to get stuff done then accept the fact you A) need friends or B) will get idiots/scrubs/afkers.

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Originally Posted by Alienmonkey

It was posted so I could close/open the thread on a topic that people wanted to discuss to show that the OP being able to close their own thread is a stupid option.

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Not really help any if any thing it could lead to a ban. and speaking of people getting banned anyone ever find out why starced or how ever you spell thier name was banned for.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

Not really help any if any thing it could lead to a ban. and speaking of people getting banned anyone ever find out why starced or how ever you spell thier name was banned for.

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I don't know what happened to Starcade, he either got banned or just gave up.

Thought he got LM-17'd, which would mean he can't post anymore either.