Fix Blood Pact delay system

The current BP delay system is crippling SMN, we rely completely on 2 recasts for everything which is unique to the class.

A great way to help fix SMN would be to give us a BP delay system broken up by level as well as rage/ward. In most cases Avatar's get 1 ward and 1 rage in a 10 level range i.e. level 20-29. some of these are still nice at level 75+ but are useless because of shared time with other pacts. Seperated timer's could be applied to each of these(still global across avatars though) to these with lower level pact's having shorter recast Possibly like so:

Pacts gained lower than lvl10 recast 10 seconds

Pacts gained at 10-19 recast 20 seconds

Pacts gained at 20-29 recast 20 seconds

Pacts gained at 30-39 recast 30 seconds

Pacts gained at 40-49 recast 40 seconds

Pacts gained at 50-59 recast 50 seconds

Pacts gained at 60-69 recast 60 seconds

Pacts gained at 70-79 recast 60 seconds

Pacts gained at 80-89 recast 70 seconds

Pacts gained at 90-99 recast 80 seconds

BP delay could be reworked like so: minimum recast=tier cost x.75(rounded up where applicable)

ex. a rage gained at level 23(burning strike) would have a max reduction of -5 secs.

This would enable us to get use out of some of our lower pacts without sacrificing our high level pacts while preventing us from spamming them.

Interesting concept

It is a very old and solid idea. I've always been in favor of just this solution.

I'm also very fond of the changed summoning skill system where you get bonus based on level you gained the ability.

I.e. You get Thunder Spark at 19. So at 19 you have 0 skill over cap natively. At 29 you have 30 skill over gained ability level cap. At 39 you got 60 skill over cap.

This would allow old pacts to "grow" with power along with your levels. We are of course not talking massive damage boosts to Thunder Spark here, since after all we just said it would be on a 20 sec recast. But we are talking things like 5 min duration crimson howl (if anyone cares about that) or 5 min ice spikes etc.

Also another change that is needed is to scale some potencies. Like Nocturnal Shield should be -15 when gained, but then increase with like -1 per 10 skill (or roughly 3 levels) past the level we got it. I've forgotten when we get it, but assume 45, and it would mean we get roughly -30 on it at 90. A nice boost to make it useful at high levels.

if only it wouldn't require a rework of the core code to implement it...for that reason alone SE will probly shy away from it.

Would be easier for them to implement a trait/JA at set level points that either directly reduces the base BP delay, or simply reduce the cap on how much we can reduce it with current methods. We can already put on more BP reduction than the system will allow us to reduce it.

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Would be easier for them to implement a trait/JA at set level points that either directly reduces the base BP delay, or simply reduce the cap on how much we can reduce it with current methods. We can already put on more BP reduction than the system will allow us to reduce it.

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This is the way of thinking that has put us where we are now. You need to fix the actual problem, regardless of work involved. Besides, I don't think this would be more work than the BST update (not sure how long they worked on that one though) where they had to add a whole new points system to pet TP moves.

We are in the current situation because of SE's quick fixes every time, instead of a real fix.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

This is the way of thinking that has put us where we are now. You need to fix the actual problem, regardless of work involved. Besides, I don't think this would be more work than the BST update (not sure how long they worked on that one though) where they had to add a whole new points system to pet TP moves.

We are in the current situation because of SE's quick fixes every time, instead of a real fix.

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2 years ago, I would have been more inclined to think SE would look more seriously at an idea like this, but with the direction the game has taken and (more particularly) the way the playerbase in general has latched on to using abyssea to shoot through levels...I'm just more inclined to think they would take the more practical route and make a few tweaks here and there that add up to the end result of a dramatic decrease to the BP timer that happens in the upper levels instead of spreading it out across the entire level range. Blood Boon is one such example.

Their past record with this job just seems to indicate that if something like this idea isn't already in the works, they are likely just to slap more band-aids here and there like before.

Removing global timers is a train I'm willing to wreck.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

It is a very old and solid idea. I've always been in favor of just this solution.

I'm also very fond of the changed summoning skill system where you get bonus based on level you gained the ability.

I.e. You get Thunder Spark at 19. So at 19 you have 0 skill over cap natively. At 29 you have 30 skill over gained ability level cap. At 39 you got 60 skill over cap.

This would allow old pacts to "grow" with power along with your levels. We are of course not talking massive damage boosts to Thunder Spark here, since after all we just said it would be on a 20 sec recast. But we are talking things like 5 min duration crimson howl (if anyone cares about that) or 5 min ice spikes etc.

Also another change that is needed is to scale some potencies. Like Nocturnal Shield should be -15 when gained, but then increase with like -1 per 10 skill (or roughly 3 levels) past the level we got it. I've forgotten when we get it, but assume 45, and it would mean we get roughly -30 on it at 90. A nice boost to make it useful at high levels.

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Crimson howl and Frost armor last 3+ minutes now they don't need to do much to the durations now maybe just add to the effect. I'm hoping they add something like that soon, I'd like certain buffs like Noctoshield to be strong enough to make a difference in a party

When it comes to recast timers SquareEnix is very cheap. Working UR ass off in synergy at best you can only get like 2 or so seconds off 2nd timers. Even more appropriately, look and compare a thief's SATA timers and a Summoners bloodpact. Both 60 seconds. A fully merited SA timer only shaves 10sec off it. Summoner do have some gear which takes of additional time, but no where near the levels people want them.
I do feel for you adjusted timer chart though. The way avatar are program now eliminate the need for those single strikes and "lower level" blood acts since why waste the timer when u can predator claw something.

Perhaps, it's time to add another bloodpact for smaller strikes and wards? Things like Ifrit punch and spikes have their own timers. If say, these hypothetical pacts were short timers of 20sec or similar to boost, while still costing MP, then there would be more of a mix and play with avatars using different "moves".

OR, spilt the physical Bloodpacts from the magical ones. Call the new tier "blood magic"(sorry dragon age). That way keeping use for the tier II and IV(if they don't go higher) in play could have Summoners magicburst more or just nuking in-between pacts?

I'd be all game for no shared timers at all, but like 1 min cool downs on each individual pact that causes them to cost double MP if used before the cool down is over.

If you feel you need faster predator claws, pay 250 MP each. Or take it slow and pay normal amounts.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

I'd be all game for no shared timers at all, but like 1 min cool downs on each individual pact that causes them to cost double MP if used before the cool down is over.

If you feel you need faster predator claws, pay 250 MP each. Or take it slow and pay normal amounts.

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Nice idea, but from talking to people it doesn't seem to matter the cost if we could spam the High damage BPs the other jobs would cry out that we're Over Powered.

I thought I had an epiphany about the role of spirit and avatars work division, but it was just a brain-fart. I thought perhaps SquareEnix wanted the 1min Bloodpacts because they were so "powerful" and in-between a spirit could be summoned to be a average nuker. This is were my argument falls apart. To bad SE for another missed opportunity.

Just as an aside, any changes to our spirits most likely would effect random elemental and mob summons behaviors. If we want a better nuking spirit then we will all suffer by better AI elemental mobs.

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Originally Posted by Covenant

Just as an aside, any changes to our spirits most likely would effect random elemental and mob summons behaviors. If we want a better nuking spirit then we will all suffer by better AI elemental mobs.

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pet/npc AI sucks across the board. I don't think spirits were mean't to be near the power or match the utility of avatars, lord knows what SE initially had in mind for them but it's safe to assume they decided against and left them as they are now

Or they could allow us to summon avatars and their abilities show up in our spell list and have the normal recast applied. That way you could buff and move on to something else i guess.

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Originally Posted by Fyreus

Or they could allow us to summon avatars and their abilities show up in our spell list and have the normal recast applied. That way you could buff and move on to something else i guess.

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A tiered Blood pact recast system would do the same

If Blood Pacts counted as spells instead of Job Abilities in the first place, a lot of fixes that have been applied to Summoner over the years would never have been necessary . . .

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If we want a better nuking spirit then we will all suffer by better AI elemental mobs.

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Not really. All those elemental mobs are sleepable and stunnable or silencable. Even if they insisted on spamming tier IV nukes, we'd easily prevent them.

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Originally Posted by Razushu

Nice idea, but from talking to people it doesn't seem to matter the cost if we could spam the High damage BPs the other jobs would cry out that we're Over Powered.

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I have watched other jobs take out enough normal mobs in Abyssea to exp almost by themselves. I dont understand why begrudge Smn.

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Originally Posted by Neonii

I have watched other jobs take out enough normal mobs in Abyssea to exp almost by themselves. I dont understand why begrudge Smn.

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Neither do I but they still do, people don't like pet jobs having power equal to non-pet jobs for some reason

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Originally Posted by Razushu

pet/npc AI sucks across the board. I don't think spirits were mean't to be near the power or match the utility of avatars, lord knows what SE initially had in mind for them but it's safe to assume they decided against and left them as they are now

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I'd bet SE simply didn't think of efficiency. They thought "And the SMN can assault this spirit, and it casts some random spells. It will be funny!"

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

I'd bet SE simply didn't think of efficiency. They thought "And the SMN can assault this spirit, and it casts some random spells. It will be funny!"

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I have to agree with you there it does sometimes feel like SE is trolling us hard