Crafting = Impossible to Guage

This is just my opinion, i just hope people see things clearly as i state them.

Ok so I'm back for the 3rd time playing FFXI.

My 1st character back in 2001-2004

My 2nd character back in 2006-2008

and Finally my 3rd time around 2011.

Ok so big changes throughout the time span from when i first started playing til now.

My biggest problem coming back to the game is that, they are no crafters. While some might disagree crafters are near extinction and I see it clearly through the AH.

Ok so back in the days AH was full of items because crafters were busy making stuff, but now it seems like nobody makes anything. I cant even buy a bed for my moggle. Last time a bed sold on my server was serveral months ago.

Alright, so I have no bed, fine no problem I'll craft and maybe within a month in real life i'll be able to get my crafting up for a decent level so that I may make a bed.

Here's where my problem kicks in. Back in the days I had no wife, no kids, no bills, no responsiblities so yes I can afford to invest time to craft, level, NM hunting, socalizing, but now it seems that my time is limited and crafting takes way to long to level.

I would Like to see Square Enix try to fix the crafting level up system. I'm not asking for them to make it 100% easier either, but something where it takes less materials to level up or less failed attempts when crafting with more skill ups atleast till level 60 in crafts, and then from 61-100 let it be tough or as it is now.

I enjoy this game and I love it but somethings in this game take to long for people with little time. Please take time to review this post and feel free to leave your comments but no trolling.

Thank you everyone =D

An interesting way to fix this IMO would be to put more emphasis on vendors. Not saying have every vendor sell every material for cheap, but to have guild vendors carry a larger stock of items for a cheaper price, and perhaps even more standard vendors just around for easier acquisition of the more simple stuff. Like I know basic ingredients are available for some crafts (cooking most notably), but some of the other crafts will have a harder time being picked up by new crafters such as Goldsmithing or even Bonecrafting.

On a side note: I think this would also be a decent way to help new players get into the game easier. Due to the lack of crafters selling low level items and armor, having a few more amor/weapon vendors around might be useful. Could make the crazier armor (scorpion harness, Luisiant stuff, etc) being sold by Tenshodo or Tavnazian vendors at a reasonable price (44k-50k doesn't seem so reasonable nowadays for a lvl 40 breastplate, especially for someone up and coming)

I agree, the crafting does blow in this game, it took me about a month to get Leathercraft to 61 and Bonecraft and Clothcraft to just over 30. Atima I like where you're going with the regional vendors carrying more relevant materials, but if the guilds wouldn't run out or charge 900% of what things would cost on AH, then yes I believe that people would be crafting like the old days.

Just do shouts in jueno. Quite a bit of my money has been made via crafting. I take materials that people sell for 300-500 I craft them into 6k-7k AH items or 40k per stack if you are impatient.

You can still get gear from killling goblins, you can still get items for your gobbybag quests, etcetera... If all else fails use these forums, or use other forums, or go to jueno and shout for crafters. Sorry man those are your options. This happens in most MMOs eventually. I mean in WoW I spent a ton of time effort and Gold on leveling blacksmithing and at the end of the day, it has been far less fruitful than my crafting on FFXI. Crafting can still be very useful though, you just have to put in effort. Oh God forbid people put the effort into finding crafters.

I myself can't find any clothcrafters high enough to make the items I want. But eventually I probably will. It just takes time and patience though. Just like leveling a craft.

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Originally Posted by Wodggeeee

I agree, the crafting does blow in this game, it took me about a month to get Leathercraft to 61 and Bonecraft and Clothcraft to just over 30. Atima I like where you're going with the regional vendors carrying more relevant materials, but if the guilds wouldn't run out or charge 900% of what things would cost on AH, then yes I believe that people would be crafting like the old days.

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While regional vendors are a decent way to circumvent excess farming, they usually only carry mats for cooking (for the majority anyway, as far as I know), and you gotta worry about regions that are Beastmen controlled. What I meant was more along the lines of adding some additional vendors either in the guilds or around the major crafting areas that carry more of the basic materials, or have the guild vendors have a much higher stock of items (200+ items from a guild merchant. After 200 the item is out of stock for a day/week/whatever). Could even adjust the prices based on how much is sold or if it sells out, capping out at a server designated price.

For example, I want to buy a bunch of Thundermelons, so I go into the Cooking guild and buy 50(out of 200, just for example) for 40gil a pop. No one else buys any for the rest of that day. The next day they restock the 50 that was bought and the price goes up ever so slightly (say to 44gil per melon). Then lets say no one buys any that day, the following day, the price would revert down slowly back to it's native price. This would reflect the concept of supply and demand.

In the situation that someone comes around and buys out the stock of items and throws them on the AH (Which still occurs anyway), you could then go to the regional vendors or the extra NPCs placed around or even just farm your own materials.

The idea is just to give crafters more options than what is currently available.

This would also let people examine prices of the guild vendors and see if they could turn a profit from the people that like the convenience of the AH, and the people that buy from the AH would have more stock as well. If the guild vendor prices are too high, then they can just go to the normal vendors and try that.

More items flowing through the AH would boost crafting and maybe let low level crafters start crafting and then they would have more items to work with and maybe turn a profit themselves while leveling.

What would help from SE in leveling crafts with minamil effort on their part, would to take some feedback from current crafters, and find the areas in each craft that are simpley beyond a gill loss to level and make them much less painfull, by adding a desent synth. Any high level crafter will tell you, their are jsut some areas where you can lose hundreds of thousands if not millions of gill trying to skill at certin points. Granted some crafts are much worse then others in that regaurds. - And since next to noone farms meterials for profite these days its not like your dealing a blow to them

Unless you're a hard core farmer, leveling a craft in this day and ages is nigh impossible due to the complete lack of any mid game structure.
Thanks abyssea...

The difficulty of crafting leveling is what makes it worthwhile to do in the end. If it was easy, everyone would have level 99 crafts and there would be no profit in it. Also, those delays are what keeps gilsellers from really fouling up the markets. Square already made crafting to 60 easier some time ago. (If you've ever leveled a craft to 70, and then went and leveled a different craft, you'd feel the difference.)

The real problem right now is the seriously pooched crystal and supply lines, as Tsukino said. We'll just have to wait and see if merging the 'houses makes some of the materials more accessible. That, and the fact that absolutely NOBODY does H/E/L/M anymore. Time for me to break out the old pick axe, I suppose! I hear Mount Zhayolm is nice this time of year!

Crystals-a-plenty on Siren.
It's not a matter of dificulty anymore, it's a matter of imposibility now. For example, instead of being able to buy a stack of cloth on AH, now you have to farm the base to make the thread to make the cloth. All because no one else is doing so, again, because of a complete lack of mid game. Since now levels go from 1-30-90.

I am a crafter. I rarely put anything up on the ah that is a "specialist" item like the beds. Most players have them or got rid of them by now. I will make anything anyone asks me for if I can. The reason why I dont put them on the ah is simple. Time is money, if the bed is going to take forever to sell, Ill make shihei instead cos they sell quick. Your best bet is to shout or to look up something that is selling and ask the person who sold it, can they make it for you. Ive done this when Ive needed say a goldsmith item. System seems to work. Just tip the crafter and get the mats probably save you a bundle.

Something which annoyed me in the current crafting system is that if you have 60 skill and do a 20 skill synth it's not uncommon to get 2-3 breaks in a row and about 20% breaks in total. Can't the break ratio follow the same lines as the HQ? like on average 5% breaks for 30m skill above the synth, 2% for 50 skill, 1% for 70 skill? I think the breaking is a reason a lot of crafters don;t even bother anymore.

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Originally Posted by Marianka

Something which annoyed me in the current crafting system is that if you have 60 skill and do a 20 skill synth it's not uncommon to get 2-3 breaks in a row and about 20% breaks in total. Can't the break ratio follow the same lines as the HQ? like on average 5% breaks for 30m skill above the synth, 2% for 50 skill, 1% for 70 skill? I think the breaking is a reason a lot of crafters don;t even bother anymore.

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But are you doing it during the right moonphase, during the right day of the week, and facing the right direction? Those are factors as well.

Ya you can break but there has to be some risk. If it doesn't cost a lot, don't worry about a few breaks, if it does, then... what ever pay more attention to the moon, and stuff.

I'm still planning on leveling up most of my crafts, but quite frankly Abyssea is a huge help to make gil. If you're hard up on crystals, then farm elementals for something, sell them, and use that gil to buy other crystals that you need. Think of it as trading an Imperial Mythril Piece for 2 silvers. :P

Really, the problem is that non-synergy crafting hasn't seen any really high end support since.....well, synergy started.

I agree Kaji, the only way to stop the lack of mid game however is to level restrict Abyssea higher, which SE wont do anytime soon sadly.

Please dont change crafting its one of the only things left that I enjoy doing lol

Call me the psycho nut job that loves crafting in this game, but it is starting to get bad with things in the Auction House. The problem with a lot of things is that this game is so far out there that a lot of things that crafters would put up no one wants anymore. Furniture, low level armor/gear, etc. Most, myself included in some crafts I raise, just craft in front of a vendor and sell it all off the moment they need space. Synergy was a great improvement on the crafting system because you could start with recipe and keep going at it for skill ups and not worry about losing the items when it failed. The only thing that I have an issue with as far as Synergy goes is that it took this long to catch on.

There's really nothing hard about any of the crafting as everything is extremely easy to get and easy to find

It took me 2 days to take Cooking from 60-100 at a loss of a few hundred thousand. I was too lazy to sell the stuff so I just NPC'ed it.

It took me about 3 days ( of normal evening game play ) to get Bonecrafting to 60

there's nothing hard about crafting and you can find the guides at ffxiclopedia.org

The materials drop so easy now a days for crafting and are found so easy that I find myself tossing stuff left and right because it is so easy to get.

Crystals are probably by far the easiest to get. At one time just from soloing BST outside of Abyssea from 75-90 I had 3 inventories full of crystal stacks

You have to put effort into things to make them worth playing.

SE has spoon fed the newer players so much now a days, at least make people earn something.

I think the method you guys use to level crafting is probably a bit off so your skill ups are coming slower. If your difficulty gap is greater then 5? you're wasting your time. I try to stay between 2.5-5 on skill ups



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I wanted to reply to this

I found that too the thing I focused on to make a good amount of gil and worth my time is consumable items. They are always in demand.

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Originally Posted by AJ_Anyia

Call me the psycho nut job that loves crafting in this game, but it is starting to get bad with things in the Auction House. The problem with a lot of things is that this game is so far out there that a lot of things that crafters would put up no one wants anymore. Furniture, low level armor/gear, etc. Most, myself included in some crafts I raise, just craft in front of a vendor and sell it all off the moment they need space. Synergy was a great improvement on the crafting system because you could start with recipe and keep going at it for skill ups and not worry about losing the items when it failed. The only thing that I have an issue with as far as Synergy goes is that it took this long to catch on.

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Originally Posted by Yopop

There's really nothing hard about any of the crafting as everything is extremely easy to get and easy to find

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I thought the leaves sold in windy were Tea leaves... not pot. Cause you gotta be high to say 'everything is extremly easy to get and easy to find'.

I think you misread my post. I don't mind stuff breaking during skillups, I mind being a LOT over skillcap and still get a LOT of breaks. The entire moonphase/day/direction thing has been said to not have any effect according to SE. Despite that the directions etc should maybe take max 2-3 points of the skill, not 30

Forced to agree. im lvl 95 wood working and 60 alch, and i have a massive fail rate when makeing certin items such as bast parchemnt. Iv probably made thousands of them and even on my best days, iv never had a fail rate less then 10%. Other times ill fail like 5 in a row. (not synthing on darksday)

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Originally Posted by Menowapii

My biggest problem coming back to the game is that, they are no crafters. While some might disagree crafters are near extinction and I see it clearly through the AH. Here's where my problem kicks in. Back in the days I had no wife, no kids, no bills, no responsiblities so yes I can afford to invest time to craft, level, NM hunting, socalizing, but now it seems that my time is limited and crafting takes way to long to level. I would Like to see Square Enix try to fix the crafting level up system. I'm not asking for them to make it 100% easier either, but something where it takes less materials to level up or less failed attempts when crafting with more skill ups atleast till level 60 in crafts, and then from 61-100 let it be tough or as it is now.

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I agree that something should be done about the crafting system. I myself am a third time returning player and I never was into crafting till way late in my first time playing. 1 Because of the time and money you need to sink into it and 2 because normally I could find what I needed for the most part without it. Now that so many have left the game I find that there is a new need for crafting. So much so that I think it would be wise to let players have 80 points to spend between their lvl 60 crafts. Since less people are on it only seems right that remaining players should be able to do more. More skill ups and less failed tries would also be nice though I have to admit I already have noticed a bit of that done from the old days.

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Originally Posted by Godofgods

Forced to agree. im lvl 95 wood working and 60 alch, and i have a massive fail rate when makeing certin items such as bast parchemnt. Iv probably made thousands of them and even on my best days, iv never had a fail rate less then 10%. Other times ill fail like 5 in a row. (not synthing on darksday)

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You have massive bad luck because I have never had much problem making bast parchment. ww100 alchemy 60. I do have a nice desk in mog and my mog enhancement is ww. I use the apron and the gloves.
what gives me a pain is the elemental staves. Hq'ing them just seems to be a rough road.

I apologize if someone has suggested this... And there are several other topics in this forum outlining the tragedies of synergy and how it has utterly destroyed the crafting community... But I suggested a long time ago to the development team for players to be able to advertise their crafting abilities more readily, and I suppose it's time to suggest it again... Why not make a way to search for players with specific crafting abilities? I'm sure both the crafters and non-crafters would greatly appreciate being able to just open a menu and search for someone of the needed skill levels rather than go down their friend list and all their LSs asking over and over if anyone knows anyone that has the skills...

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Originally Posted by RushLynx

I apologize if someone has suggested this... And there are several other topics in this forum outlining the tragedies of synergy and how it has utterly destroyed the crafting community... But I suggested a long time ago to the development team for players to be able to advertise their crafting abilities more readily, and I suppose it's time to suggest it again... Why not make a way to search for players with specific crafting abilities? I'm sure both the crafters and non-crafters would greatly appreciate being able to just open a menu and search for someone of the needed skill levels rather than go down their friend list and all their LSs asking over and over if anyone knows anyone that has the skills...

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This would have a big impact on the issue. There is another thread on here about the low availablity of items in the AH. Just the mere mentioning of seeking out a crafter or leveling a craft (no matter how easy it is, especially if you follow one of the 15 million guides available on line that walk you through a path to do it fast and expensive, slow and cheap, or steady and break-even--you pick your path) gets you attacked and flamed.

There are a BUNCH of crafters online. As has been stated already here and countless times elswhere--the demand for items just faded out and it became unprofitable to craft. Why blow money (or time farming) on an item that will only sell at best once a day for a loss or paultry profit now? The market has moved to consumables now simply because that is what is in demand. Things that used to sell for more to NPC's than AH have now reversed and become profitable in the AH now, so that is where they are focusing. If enough people start asking for certain items again, they may see a trend and start putting them up again. But as it is now, they KNOW they can turn high end accessories, tools like Shihei and Tsurara, Medicines, and foods like Sushi, meats and MP foods on a steady basis so that is what they are putting up. The supply/demand model has changed, and so went the market. Until a trend towards a different market shows up, the market won't change--the only way to fix that is to communicate with the crafters.

As for the difficulty of crafting, materials are easy to find for the lower level stuff. There are guides that not only walk you through what to craft, but also how to aquire the mats and where to sell the results (or hold onto for future tier of synths). I do agree that it gets tighter as you get higher up, but for the first 30 levels it's pretty easy. You just need to do a little research. For example, the post about the guild only selling so many thundermelons per day. Well, it is a guild in a city half-way across the continent from where they are grown natively. If you look them up, you would see there is a gob in Rabao that sells them all day long. If you can't go there yourself because of your job/level/current location, lack of Outpost warp or Tele-Altep--whatever your limit may be, you might be able to get someone in your friend list or LS to grab some for you. You could also try gardening maybe as well.

There are some very good sites out there with all the information about where and how to get items. Just look them up. FFXIAH has some tools to help you find crafters as well. Having a means to find crafters in-game would be a BIG help for people not inclined to use outside tools to find them or or otherwise ask in LS or shout in a city to find one.

Some sort of bulletin board could be interesting. Go to a guild and they have a list of crafters currently registered with the guild grouped by rank. Check the bulletin, pick your rank, and you get a list of registered players currently on line, pick there name and it opens a tell chatline for you to send them a message. Depending on the congestion in the list, there might need to be another level to filter by region (top level maybe like Jueno, Aht Urghan, etc.). Alternatively, integrate it into the ingame search engine itself. /sea all Leathercraft 40-50 to bring uip a list of current leathercrafters with skill 40-50.

I generally have a list of high level crafters I've known NA and JP since I started playing, though the list have dwindled since than, I still go to them when I need things made, and I pay them handsomely. Even though they'll do it for me for free.

Think the biggest problem is Lv30-75 items are pretty much non existant on the AH. So why bother crafting items for those level range if you'll be taking a lost anyways. Even foods(with the exception of sushi) is taking a hit since ppl can get away with just using Atmas for leveling.

I have been playing this game for about a month now. I am entirely new, so excuse me if I offer a perspective that is completely ignorant of the old ways of crafting.
Someone loaned me money and said to level a craft with it all, using the profits to return the payment and create a modest way to survive in the game. So, I spent lots of the money on clothcraft (I am now level 55 and it took about a week of crafting with someone else's money) and made some stuff by following a guide. I made the entire soil-set for mnk/nin/sam and put it in my bazzar for 2500 gil each piece. Nobody bought it. I put them in the AH and nobody bought it, so I ended up selling to the NPC, like I do with most of the things left over from leveling the skill.

I have a ton of materials in my mogsack and when I find someone without a piece of eq I can make I just give it to them for free. Otherwise the materials just go to waste because nobody really buys things. I have had luck making fly lures and sometimes the occasional cape sells, but aside from that nobody wants the clothes I can make. I haven't been to abyssea but I suspect everyone wants the gear from there instead of what a lowly crafter can make. I think SE should keep it hard, but make it so that way it is possible to craft things which have decent stats - stuff that people WANT.

Right now I am questioning if I chose the right craft. I initially started so I could make my own clothes and not have to buy them, but I am learning that even if I get all the way to level 100 clothcraft and make the *best* item, nobody will buy it because something better drops in abyssea. So, what's the point?

There aren't many people who buy low level things either. Chances are someone from their linkshell will just give them old gear they already have. I also notice there are many crafters with high levels but none of them contribute materials to the AH because nobody crafts, so nobody wants them and they will not sell.

I notice that there are certain people who stay at the crafting shop and empty it out. They buy the saratura cotton for 200gil (2400 a stack) and sell in the AH for 10k. That makes it hard for someone to craft things from the guild shop too. If I want that cotton I just hunt it in Tahrongi Canyon. It takes longer but it really beats paying 10K for something that cost 2400, or waiting for 6:00 and hoping that you can get one piece before the people who make a living out of buying it all and reselling at a markup because there is none left. I have watched the people who go into the shop and wait, and I have compared their names against sales of cotton in the auction house and it is clear what they are doing.

You know how you take tests every *8 levels and your rank in the craft guild changes? It would be nice if the prices (starts very high, gets cheaper) and availability (stock increases with progression in craft_rank) scaled with that, so that way those people who are probably not even crafters couldn't rob the resources and exploit it like they do. It's really unfair for an aspiring crafter. I have no problem hunting the materials I need down, but I just don't like how the same players take advantage like that and make leveling the craft significantly more expensive than it should be (if you only want to hunt half-the-time and can spend some money on materials from the guild shop), especially when the resulting item will not likely sell in the AH. I have waited with them and tried to buy right at 6:00 and it's almost instantly sold_out. I'll be lucky to get one or two pieces for 200g.

Also: I have been making money slowly but easily. Those who wait around the guild shop do not buy the crawler caccoons (prolly cuz they do not stack and they lack the necessary skill to make it into silk thread), so I have been buying those and since I have the spinning key item from the guild points it's really cheap for me to make a silk cloth, put it into a wind crystal, make a green ribbon, and sell to npc for 2k. There is slow profit in that and I did it for a few days like a robot would, and made some decent money that way. I just wish it was easier to make money in this game from the players (as an honest crafter - not a free_market exploiter). I like the crafting to be slow and hard - i like it that way because it *could be* rewarding for those who are serious enough to take that leap and not look back. Sadly, it seems like I dump all the money I earn into more materials, so I can level the skill and make something that used to be AWESOME .. something nobody at a high level will buy.

That's just my experience though. I am new to this game and do not really understand how it used to be, just what I encounter now. Sorry for the rant, but I started crafting with dreams and was left with only broken promises, devoid of any hope whatsoever.

Thank *YOU* abyssea. I hate you and I don't even know you.

Not sure about your server, but those stacks of silk cloth sell for about 60k on mine. I'd suggest selling a couple stacks on the AH or something. Also, make Shinobi-Tabi and Sanjaku-tenugui. Farm your Cotton from Sylvestre in Buburimu as well, they seem to have a better drop rate from my experience, and you can also steal them from them.

Unfortunately there really is no market for anything mid game any more, and that's pretty much the summation of the problem.

I'm all to familiar with this myself. As a THF I have a fairly constant need for status bolts for my standard play style but since the crafter fallout there has literally been almost no availability of these bolts any more. So, reluctantly I've had to take to crafting myself to skill up to where I can finally make my own bolts. The only sad part is between the limited availability of supplies and other crafters, I need to both farm up 90%+ of my supplies and level various other crafts as well since all the materials I need to craft bolts with are also not being made any more.

Not to mention that on the rare chance someone actually puts a quiver of bolts on sale these days the cost has practically tripled from where it was at this time last year.

Honestly, what I'd love to see is SE offering a vast number of the 10-50 level ranges of weapon and armor items via vendors at more reasonable prices. Not that vendor prices have ever been reasonable after the level 10-11 gear anyway.

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Originally Posted by thefinalrune

Honestly, what I'd love to see is SE offering a vast number of the 10-50 level ranges of weapon and armor items via vendors at more reasonable prices. Not that vendor prices have ever been reasonable after the level 10-11 gear anyway.

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The only problem with this is that it does very little to solve the problem with crafting. More than anything it would make crafting MORE pointless. What needs to be done is to have materials available at vendors that is more cost efficient for players to craft gear from. A large portion of crafted materials are pointless to make in the first place, and the ones that are worth making, aren't worth the time/effort to put into getting materials to make. Especially when you end up selling them for less than the raw materials are worth. If materials were readily available at a decent price, some things might be worth crafting again. Selling more gear at lower prices only undermines the crafting system more than it already has been.

Farming is a very nice thing to do alongside of crafting. So is digging. I get frustrated if I want something fast from AH but I know I can go farm it or dig it in most cases.
What I have noticed is there is a lot of crafting. More people are just doing their own crafting instead of buying. Now that might actually be a good thing although frustrating for crafters wanting to make gil.
It seems to be me that to be a good money making crafter you have to be flexible and have made plenty of options available to you. It also seems to me that some crafters make low midlevel things just so they are available to players even though no profits is made.
Another thing I have noticed is that when I do guild points and I sell the leftovers that they always sell. (I generally make a couple extras to recoup my costs) Maybe for 5, 10 or 20k but they do sell. It makes me think that there is a market there that is not being filled.
I used to read all the time that if you want to make gil in crafting you have to study the AH. (preferably not with bots!) You will find niches that havent been filled but are always selling if anything is put up.
It takes time and thought to make gil but it is possible even making nonconsumables.

I don't want to get skill ups easily the way they are now are good, the problem with crafting is that there are no midlevel demand and thus we are left with little to none options to craft, thus and the low drop rate and difficulty of high level craft items to get makes a crafter do a titanic effort to craft something and with little to no retribution, many prefer to simply give up crafting... T.T