Looking through all the stuff and playing the crap out of rdm because I enjoy the job, but rdm is dead in endgame. Very few groups will see value in a rdm and when they do they literally call rdm a battery.
SE has not made a useful fix on rdm in years. You gave rdm access to more ws, that did nothing to bring rdm back, you gave rdm distract/frazzle 3, that was alright for a while until you made all the nm's dark based or ridiculously high m. eva forcing rdm out from consistent enfeeble resist. You gave rdm Temper and Temper II, but we can't target party members and we are stuck in taeon gear or we have to augment mage/reisenjima gear with melee stats. Nothing like swimming upstream.
Haste 2 is not enough to give rdm invites.
You gave blm and sch a ws that returns more than 1.5k mp and spells give them tp to accomplish this. So giving rdm refresh 3 was a waste.
Sch can make and spam skill chains for blm to magic burst at capped dmg.
Sch can magic burst helix for 10k and deal serious damage over time.
Geo spells can not be resisted by anything.
Rdm is supposed to be the master of enfeebles, but geo beats it since it has better enfeebles, m. def down? seriously? Why doesn't your enfeeble master job have that?
Rdm has the highest enhance magic skill, but barspells are stronger on whm, stoneskin is still capped at 300 without gear to increase it, phalanx is still capped and does literally nothing for high damage nm's now. Seriously -35 without gear maybe -50 with gear vs a 2k AoE.... Still no reflect and it is in the .dat files.
When is rdm going to be overhauled, it is getting to the point where rdm needs it.
Few ideas, and no, I don't think I have all the answers I am just throwing out ideas so that maybe the dev team can kick it into gear and finally realize rdm needs work.
Protect/Shell VI (same potency of pro/shell V but with chance to mitigate dmg or give eva+, m. eva+ like the bonus from geo attunement)
Need a raise in innate magic accuracy, if geo can't be resisted we shouldn't have to pop all ja's and spam immunobreak, maybe drop the resist on rdm and give us scaling potency like you did with geo. Don't need the same potency of geo just raise rdm land rate, even those an idris geo is utterly broken for potency.
Need higher tiers of enfeebles, dia/bio 3 are still capped at lvl 75 potency, dia/bio 4 and poison 3 are all in the system already, why have you not given rdm these spells years ago. (make them on par with helix 1 DoT and give them the slightly higher defense/attack down potency of dia/bio 3, cause dia 3 and 3 dmg per tick isn't enough to get an invite, bio 3 at 17 damage per tick isn't enough to get an invite. at least make it 300 and 1.7k damage/tick that wouldn't break the bank with mob hp now) Poison 3 should at least be on par with something mildly decent or at least 500 damage/tick. Seriously I would have jumped for joy on this over temper 2. (I absolutely hated that I couldn't target temper 2)
Inundation was utterly useless for getting party invites.
OVERHAUL ENSPELL 2, HOLY CRAP IT SUCKS.
Temper 1/2 fine and dandy.... make it target-able on party, lower the potency and make it target-able. Do you have any clue how many invites we can get off this alone? Hell you could make it work like phalanx 1 and 2, 1 isn't target-able, 2 is, remove the triple attack on 2 and make it double attack. I would love pt invites over triple attack. (others might not, idk)
I know it takes time to design new spells so I am trying not to throw out a bunch of ideas on new spells, but amnesia, plague and confuse would be a huge gain for rdm.
I don't need cure 5, I don't need tier 6 nukes, I don't need to spam 20k weapon skills, I don't even need to self skill chain. I just think it is about time you make rdm good at what it is supposed to be good at. The nails in the coffin from all the buffs you give other jobs are killing rdm.
STOP GIVING GEO AND RUN VERSIONS OF RDM SPELLS
Let rdm target more buffs. Not that you haven't given rdm anything that a whm can't already pt cast. Maybe give rdm a target-able version of foil? Weaker than run version, idc something.
Bar-stun, bar-doom, bar-light/bar-dark would be nice....
Maybe give rdm access to AoE enfeebles, again rdm is master of enfeebles, why can't rdm enfeeble AoE but blm can. Sleepga/breakga
How about a spell to give other jobs fastcast? Cor has a roll, why can't rdm, the fast cast job, give out fastcast?
Regen 3 already, seriously.... Whm, Run, Sch, Brd, Cor, Geo all get better tiers of Regen, (brd can cast more than one)
A spell to increase attack/m.attk? Again, why not cor, geo, and brd all have something (brd lacks m. attk) This would balance out the geo only shouts to geo or rdm. Or at the very least those annoying geo x2 shouts to the geo and rdm shouts.
You don't even have to implement all these things, just a few of them. Rdm isn't a DD, we know that, but you have to start playing rdm to its strengths and that is enhance/enfeeble. The duration gear is nice, but it is not a fix. Do something, seriously.
Oh and tranq heart sucks, cure tanking was a blast
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07-08-2016, 03:50 PMThorvaWill SE ever shine light on RDM again, will SE even answer us?
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07-08-2016, 05:06 PMRaydeus
Not going to happen, and if it ever did people would just bitch and moan until RDM got nerfed into oblivion again as it has happened over and over again. Not to mention they have already said they can't add new spells anymore while completely refusing to adjust current ones.
Just forget about it, it's better for your blood pressure. -
07-08-2016, 07:19 PMSelindrile
Rdm isn't completely irrelevant, in conjunction with Geo, it has a higher Macc and some useful buffs and debuffs that only Rdm gets, Frazzle 3/Distract 3, JA to force land enfeebles, and on a few gimmicky fights debuffs such as silence or blind are relevant.
That said, I'll agree with you that Rdm is pretty far back in the support lineup. Bard is debatably further back though, which is a odd, considering Brd and Rdm were on top of the world for a long time. I'd also argue Bard needs a buff more than Rdm, or possibly buffing melee in general might make them both make a comeback due to synergy.
Allowing Temper/Temper2 to be ally-cast would go a long way to improving their synergy with a melee party, and yes, some sort of magic evasion buff that stacks would also be nice, though, people don't use Addle 2 nearly often enough, it has a macc penalty which is for the most part, the same thing.
A lot of the current meta has arose from melee groups not being viable due to ridiculous enemy TP moves, along with skillchains+magic burst being strong, fixing the insane danger to melees might change the landscape a lot. -
07-08-2016, 11:19 PMRydal
I don't understand why RDM only buffs (Refresh II/III, Temper I/II, Haste II, etc) can't be used with Accession when subbing SCH. ONLY RDM can use it. Give us SOMETHING.
Since we can't add new spells, JAs, skills, why not work on traits? -
07-09-2016, 04:15 AMThorvaI agree, brd is on the shelf in most cases, I only didn't mention brd because it was a rdm forum, but yeah, brd, drg, mnk, and rdm are going to mog storage to be forgotten. (with the exception of this months ambuscade) drk is only recently getting noticed, but sadly you need AG weapon on 2hd DD to compete due to acc problems...Quote:
Originally Posted by Selindrile
I just was working on my rdm, got to 99 last week up to 550+ jp now, and was just thinking how bad off it is. I do agree, when used with a geo it is far better than most people think it is. I think there are a few things that SE could do for rdm that would get rdm back into the line up. Let us cast temper 1/2 on pt, not even ally, just party like refresh, and that would give rdm a huge gain in most melee pick up groups. Give rdm foil to cast on party and dia/bio 4 with poison 3 since they are already in the game. No need to make new animations for the spells just turn them over to rdm with lvl 99 stats instead of our lvl 75 cap spells.
Addle and some form of m. eva would give rdm the vex/attunement level of buffs, coupled with a geo you might actually be able to tolerate being in that stupid high magic AoE at the very least, still need to figure something out for the physical/tp moves though.
Like Rydal said as well, since we can't have new stuff, fine fix the stuff we have, just being able to target our temper 1/2 and accession haste 2, refresh 2/3 would help. Also I really think rdm should have more AoE enfeebles.
Again poisonga 2/3, dia goes all the way up to 5 in the .dat files with diaga V and the same with bio V. I am asking for dia/bio 4, with -ga 3, poison 3 with -ga 2 and better than 3, 4, or 17 dmg tick.
There is still huge resist rate problems with rdm, even with top level gear a rdm can still be resisted by nm's on literally all enfeebles with the exception of bio and dia. But those spells aren't enough to get a rdm in, I realize removing rdm resist rate and giving it scaling potency would essentially make rdm too strong, hence is why I came up with lower potency levels, but higher than the crap we have.
Rdm DoT spells are so sad they aren't even considered substandard. A capped out rdm can hit a max of bio 3 and poison 2 maxes out in the 230-250 range WITH sabo, how will that effect an nm with 250k+ hp. Sch are MB helix for 10k and I am pretty sure they found they are getting the same 10k as DoT. Give us 300 on dia 4, 400 poison 3, 1.7k on bio 4. That wouldn't be enough to make anything ground breaking.
Again, reflect (like) spell is in the .dat animation already, throw some code on there for magic evasion and let use cast on party, don't even need ally, just party. (not like you have given us any ally based content since everything scales so ridiculously high it isn't worth taking an ally)
These spells aren't new, they are already in the game, no need for the dev team to draw up animations. They are already in the game. The only thing it needs is a copy paste coding and name/potency change. Seriously not that hard, I do it all the time for work, granted I don't make video games, but I write in css, html, occasionally java, .xml, .lua and so on. The concept is the same.
SE originally designed rdm and it almost always had a role in groups. Once abyssea came out rdm started to die, had a spot in voidwatch for a while until SE removed the need for dia/bio 3 for nm weakness. Since then the only other time rdm was used was in low man delve as a stun. That was after people chose 2 sch over the same thing 1 rdm could do. Gotta love logic.
Since abyssea rdm has only had hot spot groups, and it is only the extreme geared maxed out notorious rdm that get the invites. Everything else is a hand-me-down rdm and groups would rather ask for a geo.
SE could stop wasting time with all the stupid mounts and aesthetic crap and look into making all jobs useful again.
Think I will make that my signature. -
07-09-2016, 02:35 PMSelindrile
Fair enough, like I said, Rdm is probably the second lowest support on the totem pole at the moment, and I can definitely get behind increasing it's buff/debuff potential, would love for all it's spells to be accesionable, and some of those buffs you mentioned sound pretty good, that said, again, making melees viable may make rdm more viable in turn.
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07-11-2016, 08:26 AMRooj
When I came back to the game a couple months ago after being away for years, I would have agreed with most of this. I did play a bit during the Abyssea/Voidwatch era so I know how bad it's been for RDM at times. After getting geared, getting Master, and experiencing a majority of the content, I don't agree with it anymore.
It seems that all of those people that complained they wanted RDM to be a melee DD on par with all the rest got what they wanted. RDM now has the most multiattack in the game, not to mention Enspell 1s hit for 100+ (I really really hope people aren't using Enspell 2s... they have their purpose but their use is uncommon). You could do 600 Enspell damage in one swing (haven't figured out if Enspells work on Occ. attacks, or it would be 700 with Degen).
I don't think that our enfeebles should have anywhere near 100% accuracy on meta-content. Having a mob's AOE destroy-everything WS/spell paralyzed is a pretty big deal. I'm still experimenting with Slow II and Blind II. I feel like Addle II is basically unresistable and it's pretty amazing as well.
I believe that there are 2 things that make people think RDM is weak. Gear, and knowledge. RDM is multiple jobs in one (AKA hybrid). That means you have to get more gear than any other class to be on par with any other class. As for knowledge, time and time again I meet people, especially other RDMs, who don't know enough about the class to justify their complaints about it. Or they aren't willing to use all the tools available to the class. If you are planning on doing nothing on RDM but healing, you are wrong. If you are planning on doing nothing but nuking on RDM, you are wrong. If you are planning on doing nothing but enfeebling on RDM, you are wrong. If you are planning on doing nothing but meleeing on RDM, you are wrong. Get on bg-wiki and look up every single one of your spells and abilities, learn exactly what they do, what their modifiers are, any discover and acquire an equipset set for each and every one. Get and utilize multiple weapons for different content/situations. Learn which element and debuffs each NM is strong/weak to.
You're not going to see Temper castable on others or any of our good spells work with Accession. You're not going to see the old RDM ever come back. Because too many forumgoers complained that all RDM did was Haste and Refresh people. They all wanted to melee melee melee. So I hope you enjoy meleeing as you'll be doing a ton of it, lol. -
07-11-2016, 03:00 PMThorva
Pretty sure every rdm in the game knows they aren't there for just 1 thing. In fact I have over 200 pieces of gear on rdm and a gearswap with closing in on 3k lines. I have rules for every subjob in the game, rules for cure dependent on if I am engaged, not engaged, weather, weather engaged, self, party/ally cures, engaged self and pt/ally cures, engaged self pt/ally cures with and without weather. I have rules for what weather/day I have to match nuke sets and even ws sets. I have engaged, idle, weather/day enfeeble sets, I have stoneskin cap + 5 pieces of stoneskin potency gear. I have cycle toggle on rdm for dw, single wield, daggers, clubs, swords, MaB dual wield of each version. I have distract/frazzle m. acc sets to land t2 just so I can land a potency/skill frazzle/distract 3, I break 50% triple attack with temper 2 in my melee sets. I really hope you weren't saying enspell hits 600 damage, not even remotely close, assuming you didn't mean that and it needs clarity for other people that means 600 enhance skill enspell. Enspell 1 works on multi-hit weapons/gear, but enspell 2 does not.
I don't think you read my entire post or you would have realized where I posted remove the resist rate and scale the potency like it is done on geo. Melee rdm is only seen in exp/solo, it will rarely if ever be in end game as a melee. No matter what SE has done to rdm in the past it will never hit the needed attack to make headway as a melee DD. Way too many other jobs hit far higher levels of both attack and ws modifier.
My previous acnt was a 2100 jp rdm, I had an acnt before that with 550 rdm when that was cap on cp, and I have already broken 1200 jp on rdm on this acnt and only had rdm leveled about a week now. I have been playing rdm since the beginning of 2006. I know rdm, I have read up on all the spells in it's arsenal. I can assure you that gear and knowledge are not the only 2 things that make rdm weak. Blind II has been considered a waste of merits for many years now, that won't change with nm acc. Slow II and Blind II don't need experimenting, that was done years ago. I have soloed all t1 nm's on rdm and a few t2 in ru-aun/zitah. (Haven't tried t3 yet), soloed all wkr, soloed all delve mega boss (took Atlus and Dyme with me to watch that happen) I used to help keep rdm gear updated in the rdm forums on ffxiah site. I know rdm better than I know any other job in the game and that includes drk which anyone that has played with me on drk knows I know what I am doing. The people that were around when I had my previous acnt 2100 jp rdm, know I know what I am doing on rdm.
RDM is extraordinarily powerful in content up to 132, that is assuming you get a group that will take you that high. Once you hit 145 content and higher SE balance system is an utter joke. The meta system has destroyed balance. Bringing in some of the ideas I posted not only brings rdm back, but potentially brings back melee dps in 145+
The biggest problem with 145+ isn't the acc issue, I have personally broken 1800 acc on drk, so we know that is possible. The problem is the stupidly high AoE dmg that people take. Giving rdm buffs to raise -pdt/mdt or eva/m. eva, as well as making a targeting version of temper with a cap on the multi-attack it gains while people stack on massive acc/dt gear, does not over power the job, that would balance the multi-attack gear with the need to supplement for acc/dt. The tanks that can hold 145+ content are doing so without these buffs, so it wouldn't magically make impossible tanking possible. Myrkr, sublimation, refresh gear, occult acumen, and mp returned gear has made refresh obsolete. Hence why you don't see people asking for a rdm to come cast refresh. People rarely cast haste to begin with and have in such become used to either hasting themselves or just going without it. In cases of end game linkshells they either haste themselves or they dedicate someone to do it, not a rdm and only haste 1. That makes haste 2 useless to anyone that isn't a rdm because melee don't go to 145+ content and mages use haste 1.
Rdm doesn't nuke as hard as blm or have access to death/comet/t6 spells so rdm is out on the nuking.
Rdm can't sc nukes like sch, so rdm is out there.
Rdm DoT is FAR weaker than sch DoT, so rdm is out there.
Rdm pro/shell barspells are stronger than rdm, so rdm is out there.
Rdm can't cure like a whm, so rdm is out there.
Rdm can't tank like a pld or run, so rdm is out there.
Rdm can't DD like blu, thf, dnc, cor, drk, war, so rdm is out there.
Rdm can't buff like a geo giving m. attk or lower mob magic defense, so rdm is out there. (Geo can lower both mob m. def and m. eva)
Rdm in general can't come close to the majority of jobs in any form of damage, it is not a damage dealer. Being able to deal damage and being considered a damage dealer are not the same thing. Rdm is a buff/enfeeble job and fails miserably at that in today's content due to the meta nm's and meta jobs.
To say people don't know what they are doing on rdm and that is the problem with rdm is a bold statement for never being in a party with someone on that job. Furthermore to state that the only problem with rdm is gear and knowledge while absolutely zero endgame shouts or linkshells are asking for a rdm on 145+ content is naive. Rarely will you see a rdm in content as low as 135. Most the time you won't even see a shout for a rdm for anything beyond exp parties. Rdm current largest role in the game is cure, haste, refresh in apex shout groups, and that is assuming they even take a healer. Most the time I see pld, run, blu shouts to tank and sc with each other, geo, sch and blm/s.
I fail to see how your condescending, and very naive, post hits any nails on the head regarding rdm. I jaw dropped trying to understand your enspell discussion and stating rdm is on par with all the rest of melee DD. 100% enfeeble accuracy still needs potency, something I already addressed. Lowered potency is still better than full resist, but when a rdm has to immunobreak the crap out of blind on an nm with ja there is an issue. Rdm highest magic skills are enhance and enfeeble, enhance/buff magic is done better on other jobs currently and enfeeble is so utterly useless that only extremely rare occasions do people use a rdm for it on 145+ content most the time they have to be coupled with an Idris geo in order to compete with the alternative geo x2 groups. -
07-11-2016, 03:46 PMSelindrileThe majority of content in the game is accomplishable with any reasonable setup, but there's little reason to choose a Rdm the majority of the time. Some of the harder content Rdm is reasonably useful on, for sure, but again, it's generally behind every support but Brd, and non-tank-melee aren't used much for the harder content in general, and even it it were, they'd be behind other options.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooj
Rdm itself isn't actually a bad meleer, due to Temper/Enspells/Haste2, however it doesn't get access to the DD gear it needs to compete, that's the whole issue there, should it have access to these things? IDK, I don't really care about melee Rdm, and I don't feel like the majority of people here are really arguing for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooj
Why not? Because you said so? Sure, any given request about anything that is directed towards the devs is unlikely to be fufilled for obvious reasons, we know that out of the gate. The vast minority of suggestions even get responded to, much less implemented. But it's not an unreasonable request, and plenty of other things we didn't really expect to happen came down the pipeline, all we can do is ask.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooj
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07-12-2016, 12:14 AMRooj
Fine, don't listen to me and continue to be refused party invites. I don't get called "the best RDM" daily for no reason. Call it condescending if you want, I only came here to help. And while you're playing your GEO or other flavor of the month class just to get into content, I'll still be doing it on my RDM.