Foil

Is there anyway the devs could look into giving pld foil please? Pld is in desperate need of an adjustment to the CE values of its ma/ja's as well, more inline with what run offers.

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Originally Posted by Aeron

Is there anyway the devs could look into giving pld foil please? Pld is in desperate need of an adjustment to the CE values of its ma/ja's as well, more inline with what run offers.

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this has to be a joke. PLD doesnt need Foil in any form at all. While Foil generates a nice amount of enmity its primary use is something totally different: "Enhances evasion against special attacks. ". Which RUN needs in order to not eat big chunks of dmg from TP moves. Giving Foil to PLD would make any ochain pld basicly invincible...
What PLD needs is an enmity-system adjustment, nothign else. The enmity system is borked, not the job (ecxept for NIN and RUN to some degree)

RUN with epeolatry doesn't use foil for anything but hate anyway. They take less physical damage than a PLD with Ochain takes, (And from all angles, all the time since it's just straight DT- instead of a proc, on top of parrying and evading more) AND takes less magic damage than a PLD does with Aegis, (And spreads that magic defense out to the whole party 4/5 of the time) and does both at once, with 1/2 as many REM weapons to make. And between better weapon skills, a counter ability, and irresistible rune damage, RUN deals better damage too. Except for non elemental damage, RUN will be better than PLD at tanking soon, once the ergon sword starts showing up.

So throw PLD Foil. It's supposed to be a counterpart to Reprisal, but with reprisal's 3 min recast and 1 minute duration, and no PLD fast cast, versus Foil's 10 second recast after RUN's innate capped fast cast for being RUN, it's no comparison. Toss PLD blink, stoneskin, aquaveil and refresh as well, since RUN gets them, too. And give both of them haste 1. Everyone in the game with mp but PLD and RUN have haste 1 or haste 2 now, might as well toss them tier 1 so the mages can get back to doing something else.

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Originally Posted by Louispv

RUN with epeolatry doesn't use foil for anything but hate anyway.

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It's pretty ironic you're saying this to one of the few players that actually has Epeolatry. Rofl @ essentially "make Runs and Plds have the same spell set" too. Silliness.

I'd rather see them stay different and good at their unique niches. Run's niche could still use some expansion though. Plds are one of the few jobs that don't need anything really (except for the enmity system fixed). At best, they could use a lil more DD utility or access to some more FC gear.

Because... how many people have Epeolatry again? That's sort of a weak argument. The best weapon you can expect most RUNs to have is an Aettir, meaning a 55% damage cap, and the only means of further mitigation we have are parries. PLD can block and reduce damage further even without PDT II gear thanks to their shield, and they have much more reasonable item attainments than RUN's pseudo-Mythic. Aegis and Ochain are far, far easier to get and provide massive benefits in both physical and magical mitigation, and you're complaining that RUN gets an evasion-type move? You've got blocking, we've got evasion/parrying.

RUN won't out-tank PLD easily for a number of reasons: One, a lack of enmity gear means that while they do have tools to gain enmity, they have a far harder time in maintaining it. Even with damage-dealing capabilities, being forced to put on PDT/enmity armor to try and mitigate their hemorrhaging enmity means that they're not doing a ton of damage. Second, PDT only does so much; to a point, PLD can get more defense without having to break PDT caps thanks to the amount of damage reduced through shield blocks and the high block rate. Between higher-defense gear and a better means of mitigating damage, PLD is hardly in a bad position right now.

I do agree that PLD could use some defensive spells, however. I have no argument with them getting Aquaveil, Blink, and Stoneskin, though I do protest Refresh; they have an innate Auto-Refresh that RUN doesn't get, as well as actual Cure spells without the use of a subjob while RUN's means of healing are through a 1-minute JA and Regen unless they focus on subjob gains. Haste I'm so-so on, only because that's always been a backline thing to hasten the front lines. I don't really mind either way on that, though.

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Originally Posted by Malithar

It's pretty ironic you're saying this to one of the few players that actually has Epeolatry. Rofl @ essentially "make Runs and Plds have the same spell set" too. Silliness.

I'd rather see them stay different and good at their unique niches. Run's niche could still use some expansion though. Plds are one of the few jobs that don't need anything really (except for the enmity system fixed). At best, they could use a lil more DD utility or access to some more FC gear.

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funny thing is i use Foil to evade mob TP moves even with Epeolatry you can eat big chunks of dmg. The Rune Enmity nerf has had a sever hit on RUN enmity. some AA VD Waponskills still hurt alot even with -75& PDTII especially if they do SCs. Foil "simmulates" ochain blocks and makes those WSs miss. Especially on the galka AA Foil makes his WS miss constantly, since they are mostly one hit WSs. Epeolatry with Foil together allows me to play a more aggressiv playstyle (or a more safe) much like Ochain allows PLD to play a more aggressiv playstyle (without the need of Foil), and if some form of evasion down debuff kicks in I can say bye bye to Foil ¬.¬

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Originally Posted by Damane

funny thing is i use Foil to evade mob TP moves even with Epeolatry you can eat big chunks of dmg. The Rune Enmity nerf has had a sever hit on RUN enmity. some AA VD Waponskills still hurt alot even with -75& PDTII especially if they do SCs. Foil "simmulates" ochain blocks and makes those WSs miss. Especially on the galka AA Foil makes his WS miss constantly, since they are mostly one hit WSs. Epeolatry with Foil together allows me to play a more aggressiv playstyle (or a more safe) much like Ochain allows PLD to play a more aggressiv playstyle (without the need of Foil), and if some form of evasion down debuff kicks in I can say bye bye to Foil ¬.¬

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Hmmm. I really need to retest foil. My original tests were less that satisfactory. Although, quantifying a decaying WS only evasion bonus is... rather difficult. Still, having a vague, >80 as the known value is irritating. My previous test was done pre-ilvl... could probably get enough evasion+ gear to uncapp base acc on the NM I used before. Was ridiculous that I couldn't do so on a 75 era NM....

Umm, kinda more on topic. I don't feel PLD needs Foil. Evading is not really our thing. However I do very much want a spell Like foil. Self targeted buff with potent enmity values and a fair recast. Not sure what said buff would be, but I really just want it as an enmity tool.

Ok ill just give a little bit more context to why I started this thread. What I really meant was a Foil like spell. I understand what Damane saying about the tp move evasion aspect that Foil provides and hes right pld doesn't need that. I was more interested in another spell innate to pld that could replace the need to use /war for provoke (and I know that there are other reason why /war is good).

I feel like Crusade et al should give a static amount of enmity on cast, iunno, seems daft that they don't.

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Originally Posted by Aeron

Ok ill just give a little bit more context to why I started this thread. What I really meant was a Foil like spell. I understand what Damane saying about the tp move evasion aspect that Foil provides and hes right pld doesn't need that. I was more interested in another spell innate to pld that could replace the need to use /war for provoke (and I know that there are other reason why /war is good).

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well /run was a very good options for enmity for plds, but since they made runes give now 0 enmity since 2 updates ago ewww. but yeah another hate spell would not hurt for pld, its not like cures generate lots of enmity at theese days. . . its just even with a new hatebuilding spell, it wont solve pld/run/nin enmity issues on tanking. the upcomeing enmity adjustments will help plds that have a nice enmity set for sure, dont see how it will help run, run has basicly almost 0 enmity gear :/ (only visible gear with enmity+ and ilvl is AF or Relic hands +1)