Nublet PUP here with a few quality of life suggestions. On paper the job seems near perfect but these few issues are so pervasive to the minute to minute life of the job it brought me to make these suggestions.
1. Why oh why doesn't the maneuver buff last longer, a LOT longer, on the master? There is no reason it can't be like 10, 15, 30 or even 120 minutes long. A longer buff length doesn't effect overload as this won't have an effect on the 'consumption' class of attachments. I really like the job and it looks good on paper but man it's a let down to come to find out you have to deal with this pervasive annoyance.
2. Repair oil cost and non-99-stackability. It's quite simple, on a job that already is in reality prohibitively expensive to the average joe and new player the current npc cost of repair oils needlessly exaggerates expenses. It's quite simple, lower all the oils cost by a factor of 10 and simply allow the oils to stack to 99. There is no reason why it can't stack to 99.
3. And finally PUP needs a Job Trait that acts kind of like Zanshin or maybe it's closer to the idea of Double Attack but anyway. This effect would read as "x" gives you a 20-33% chance not to consume maneuvers when they otherwise would have been. Obviously this applies to the 'consumption' class of maneuvers, ice maker has a 20-33% chance to not consume it's ice maneuvers and the same for all others. I took a quick look at all the attachments and I think there is something that approximates this effect but if I remember correctly it requires it's own maneuver which really defeats the point, or maybe it was to prevent overload, anyway. This is more of a QoL buff rather than a damage buff. Again having to constantly reapply maneuvers is unfortunately annoying.
Anyway, I'm not breaking the game here these are just some simple common sense QoL improvements that just make the job more enjoyable. Thought I'd post here to get some feedback maybe some attention to the issue on the dev side etc. etc..
PS: Another disappointment for me personally is how horrible the AF sets look lol, oh well xD.
A few vexations.
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01-08-2013, 03:30 PMGeorg_AnatolyA few vexations.
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01-08-2013, 11:15 PMMayoyama
Ok firstly... as someone who plays pup.... I really dont want maneuvers lasting ridiculous amounts of time... Maneuvers are designed to be changed frequently to accommodate for the many situations that can arise while playing the job. I do agree it would be nice if they lasted a little longer than they currently do... but in reality maneuvers are just part of the job and if they annoy you that badly maybe you are playing the wrong one.
2. Oils really are quite cheap, especially if you compare them to pet food for bsts....and if you are short on gil.. just equip regen and keep a light maneuver up. BST pet food/jugs all stack to 12 also.. so in the name of balance... oils wont be changed to 99.
3. interesting job trait suggestion.. but would only be situationally useful (if at all... depending on the attachments you have set)
PS: I personally think the AF sets look cool (although AF3 is goofy.... AF2 was nicer imo) -
01-08-2013, 11:29 PMRafien
What Mayoyama says.
Though, I do find the PUP AF3 gear pretty sweet.. You stand out.
I disagree with you saying that PUP is expensive. Fight Ob, and do a few other quests and almost all your attachments are given to you. Find a friend that can synth a few and you're golden. -
01-09-2013, 09:00 AMToadie-OdieI have both PUP and BST leveled to 99 and I must say even with cooking at 98 it is way easier and less expensive to feed the automaton his oil than it is to feed teh BST pet his food. At least as PUP your pet has some self healing options. The only BST jug pet I know of that can heal itself is Lucky Lulush (the snow bunny). Gavrie in Whitegate sells NQ Oil for 50 a bottle. That's cheaper than I can make pet food, even with HQ synths.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayoyama
Using Maneuvers for me has a similiar rythmn as using steps when on /dnc and I like that. Lets me get into a groove as I do my thing.
As for the AF sets... I like the PUP's AF1 and AF2. I'm still trying to get used to PUP's AF3. I almost think it would be fine without the face paint.
Edit: All that said I would like to see some Repair+ gear similar to what BST has. -
01-10-2013, 06:45 PMHelyoshttp://www.ffxiah.com/item/15999/guignol-earringQuote:
Originally Posted by Toadie-Odie
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Puppetry_Babouches
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Desultor_Tassets
All these make repair pretty ridiculous. Was fighting Battleclad Chariot today spamming puppets. After a Deus Ex/Repair my puppet would heal around 600hp, and take shots for 120hp. Not only did its hp not go down due to massive regen, it sometimes steadily grew. Repair is awesome. On top of that we can spam puppets (10%hp can quickly become more if you know what you're doing.) You don't want/need to be similar to bst.
Its meant to be a constant hands on job keeping you on your toes and engaged. Ironically, it's kinda like a real puppet. It's not gonna get up and go Real Boy Pinocchio for you with one nudge.Quote:
I really like the job and it looks good on paper but man it's a let down to come to find out you have to deal with this pervasive annoyance.
There's something badass about a ridiculously dressed individual that can survive just about everything you throw at it.Quote:
PS: Another disappointment for me personally is how horrible the AF sets look lol, oh well xD.
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01-11-2013, 03:41 AMToadie-OdieI only meant in terms of variety and options. BST has a much larger selection - and you can get a near full set of Reward base gear. Some reduces recast time, but most of it increases potency. With the right set up you can get as much as +63% in potency.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helyos
Guignol Earring appears to be a full-time piece while the oil's regen effect is in place for it to work, or have I misread that part? I think if PUP got more Repair recast reduction would be nice.
Reward has a base recast timer of 1m30s while Repair has a base recast of 3m. BST can merit Reward recast down further as well as equip gear to reduce it even more. With the current gear set and merits I have for Reward, my recast is at 75s and unless I am fighting an NM solo I never need it that often even though I could push it down further if I choose to pursue the gear for it.
The BLM and RNG automatons seem very squishy to me. I'm always getting it killed. Maybe I just suck at the job - that's always a possiblity, but I would like to see a shorter recast for Repair as I try to learn how to better utilize the automaton when it can't heal itself. I know there is a JA that will swap your HP with your automaton but it's a fairly long recast timer too.
And I can't argue with that! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Helyos
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01-11-2013, 03:58 AMxbobx
Yes the BLM and RNG automations are squishy and for reason. Just like the counterparts, the design is for dmg, and the more dmg you do, the more squishy you are, in most cases. If a pld could out DD everyone, while having the best defense why play anything else. Probably the same idea there.
You can definitely buff them to be more durable but you lose dmg.
You really have to pick your automation for the mob. If you fighting a AOE mob that will reach past your automations damage range, bring out VE.
I think many pups like to just use one puppet and don't adjust to the situation. -
01-11-2013, 04:39 AMHelyosIt's just a macro piece. It doesn't have to be full time.Quote:
Guignol Earring appears to be a full-time piece while the oil's regen effect is in place for it to work, or have I misread that part? I think if PUP got more Repair recast reduction would be nice.
This is true. However as good a bst is at soloing it doesn't have our versatility. A BST's pet can only really just deal damage, along with the occasional enfeeble (which you rarely see used, much less as the pet's primary utility.) So where BST gets its Reward gear to keep its pet alive, we have the option of doing the tanking our selves with a Cure VI spamming puppet with 'unlimited' mp.Quote:
Reward has a base recast timer of 1m30s while Repair has a base recast of 3m. BST can merit Reward recast down further as well as equip gear to reduce it even more. With the current gear set and merits I have for Reward, my recast is at 75s and unless I am fighting an NM solo I never need it that often even though I could push it down further if I choose to pursue the gear for it.
Sharpshot is pretty much always destined to die. I never really have a problem letting it die unless its sitting on tp and hasn't WSed yet. Since I can throw a new one with Deus Ex, and only need it to do damage i'm alright with this. These days BLM puppet is getting very situational. 9/10 you're not soloing with it and there's usually a better damage option. When/if I use it I usually deactivate right after the spell gets off if I know it's going to pull hate. When it comes to the mage heads it's best to find a way to always keep it at 100% hp, because those are way more of a pain to simply Deus Ex.Quote:
The BLM and RNG automatons seem very squishy to me. I'm always getting it killed. Maybe I just suck at the job - that's always a possiblity, but I would like to see a shorter recast for Repair as I try to learn how to better utilize the automaton when it can't heal itself. I know there is a JA that will swap your HP with your automaton but it's a fairly long recast timer too.
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01-11-2013, 10:59 AMToadie-Odie
Good to know about the earring.
As for the comparison of the two pet types in versitality, I will agree. I was probably one of the few BSTs out there back in the "old days" that actually prefered pet jugs over charming - simply because my luck is such that charm always wears off at the worst possible time. lol The upside was I could bring with me a variety of pet choices to work with in my chosen camp, even if it meant slower leveling - but if I'm playing solo who cares besides me about the experience I'm getting.
This was why I was interested in PUP to start with. I wanted to check out this pet that could do so much more AND not suddenly turn against me in the middle of a crowd control crisis.
I have a harder time with Sharpshot than I do with the BLM automaton. I think maybe I'm too attached to my pets. I don't like to just sack them and prefer to find other ways to address my current situation when I can. I don't know, but maybe I just need to rethink my style of play and become more willing to watch them die ... but I really hate the thought of it.
The original post mentioned stacking oils to 99. I wouldn't mind if they did that for all pet healing items. I don't know about anyone else but the only other job that beats out PUP and BST on inventory demand is my WHM. Of those three jobs, I have least amount of situational gear on my PUP whereas WHM has the most. Meanwhile the available situational gear is ever increasing, placing additional burden on inventory space. There are times when I have to chose between bringing meds for my char, pet food, or decide whether or not leaving behind some set of gear is going to create an epic fail. -
01-16-2013, 02:03 AMZhronneNot saying I like it, but it is the way it is because they wanted to keep the mechanic interesting by making you constantly choose which maneuver to use, swapping between them to proc different things at specific moments, and at the same time feel the "risk" of using too many manuvers of the same kind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Georg_Anatoly
Good in theory, maybe, but in practics I do agree they last way too short and I never liked the Maneuver system for WS. Wish you could manually select which WS your automaton will use, from a menu, and then use whichever maneuver you want and have your puppet still use the WS you picked up.
The maneuver system is fine when you want to proc certain specific things (provoke, flash, stoneskin etc) or just swap from an all DD maneuvers setup to a recovery/defensive one.
It's fantastic in this way, but I always hated it for Weapon Skills, honestly.
For the lasting time they could surely find a better compromise than the current one, without exagerating with your examples.
Altough I'm afraid if they were to make them last longer, they would only furtherly destroy the relevance of the overload mechanic.
The cost is not a big deal tbh, the stacking thing is.Quote:
2. Repair oil cost and non-99-stackability. It's quite simple, on a job that already is in reality prohibitively expensive to the average joe and new player the current npc cost of repair oils needlessly exaggerates expenses. It's quite simple, lower all the oils cost by a factor of 10 and simply allow the oils to stack to 99. There is no reason why it can't stack to 99.
It's been asked several time for Oils and pet food to make them more stackable, especially with the current inventory issues.
But they always gave the same reply. They want to disincentivate bringing too many items to repair your pet, and the way they can do it is by making them stack to 12 and wasting you precious inventory space for each stack you want to bring with you.
In all honesty it still doesn't make sense to me, but hey, go tell them.
Hmmm no.Quote:
3. And finally PUP needs a Job Trait that acts kind of like Zanshin or maybe it's closer to the idea of Double Attack but anyway. This effect would read as "x" gives you a 20-33% chance not to consume maneuvers when they otherwise would have been. Obviously this applies to the 'consumption' class of maneuvers, ice maker has a 20-33% chance to not consume it's ice maneuvers and the same for all others. I took a quick look at all the attachments and I think there is something that approximates this effect but if I remember correctly it requires it's own maneuver which really defeats the point, or maybe it was to prevent overload, anyway. This is more of a QoL buff rather than a damage buff. Again having to constantly reapply maneuvers is unfortunately annoying.
Cool idea but too powerful, you'll never get this from SE and honestly, as cool as it is, we don't really "need" it, trust me.
It was cool at first! But it kinda grew old quickly :(Quote:
PS: Another disappointment for me personally is how horrible the AF sets look lol, oh well xD.
At least for me of course.