I'm an old-time player- came in during the last bits of CoP going into ToAU, and I left due to outside reasons right before the level cap- in the process of which my account info took a walk during a sudden move. (Ragnarok players or old-timers from other forums might recognize Kyreth from the old Harvesting Guide I did waaaay back.)
So I thought to myself: "Hey, it's been a while- I'll give the ride to RDM 99 a go and see how the job's changed. Good grief! We've become so much a jack-of-all-trades that what made us unique has ended up subjob fodder, and RDM main has declined to being simply a soloist whose subpar performance in parties has left the job gathering dust in most endgame and even party situations. Because we melee, we are inferior mages. Because we have magic, we are inferior meleers.
So, I read a while. And thought a while longer. And have an idea, if S-E and my fellow RDMs would listen to a guy who's last character only made it to 75.
Let our melee fuel our magic, and our magic fuel our melee in a way that benefits each appropriately. How? Via the one thing that makes us unique in all the mage classes- our use of weaponry (yes, I know- WHMs can hit things with hammers and that B+ club skill, but did you see them tanking HNMs? Nooooo...).
Add a JA to Red Mages at 10th level, useable as main job only- Channel. Recast time 30 seconds, duration 60 seconds (or until used). A Red Mage must have a weapon in hand to use Channel (so abilities that disarm the RDM would also prevent the use of Channel).
When Channel is active:
If the Red Mage activates a Weapon Skill, TP is consumed as normal but instead of the normal results, the Red Mage receives a buff that varies depending on the WS used, with duration and strength varying with the amount of TP used on the WS (say, 2 minutes for 100% up to 5 minutes for 300%, with merits improving this).
Buffs gained in this manner improve the RDM's casting ability in some form, with higher-skill level WS's providing more broadly desirable effects. Burning Blade/Red Lotus Blade might increase M. Attack, for example- with RLB having a better effect for the TP than Burning Blade. Shining/Seraph Blade would boost Enhancement/Healing/Divine skill, Spirits Within M. Acc, and so on. This could result in some interesting choices, especially if the most beneficial buffs are sword/dagger vs. say, club WS. Archery ones would be just plain weird, but hey...you could give a Red Mage an actual reason to shoot arrows, I suppose...but the point being that higher level RDMs would have good reason not to simply wave elemental staffs about (or the "combo" staff most mages use now).
If a Skillchain is completed and the Red Mage casts a spell that would normally Magic Burst with Channel active, the spell instead turns into a buff that increases the Red Mage's melee capacity in some form- but has no effect otherwise. The buff would vary based on the elemental type of spell and the MP expended. A Red Mage MBing a Cure II or other Light-based on the target might recieve a moderate DEF buff similar (but stacking with) Protect, while one that manages to time an Aero IV (or Wind spell in general) would watch their attack speed (but not their casting speed) go through the roof for a considerable amount of time. In effect, this ability would make the Red Mage's lower base melee skills effectively higher- as long as the Red Mage had skillchains to pump spells and their MP into to improve it.
In the process, a Red Mage would benefit in different ways from Channeling. Solo, TP could be consumed only to improve their casting abilities via their own WS, limiting it's ability to make a solo RDM overpowered since most solo RDMs cannot self-skillchain.
Only in working with others in a party or alliance would Channel realize it's full power.
A Red Mage in a party would melee and cast- burning MP to boost their melee capacity which in turn would improve their ability to for better casting capacity by consuming TP, in a cycle that would continue as long as the Red Mage had fights to feed both sides of the equation.
Sound interesting?
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12-09-2012, 06:47 AMRusticTurning the jack-of-all-trades from liability to virtue: How to revive the Red Mage.
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12-10-2012, 12:34 AMCalatilla
It does sound quite interesting yes, but how does this benefit the party the RDM is in? All the buffs the RDM generated from ws`s and magic would benefit only the RDM and nobody else? I think it would sound more interesting if they were to enhance the PT not just the RDM.
They still wouldn't be a match for any real DD so PT`s won't substitute a DD for a RDM unless you have something else to offer. -
12-11-2012, 02:33 AMRusticThe point wouldn't be to turn the RDM into a DD- but rather, the process of melee enhances the ability of the RDM to cast in parties, and MB'd spells channel into improving the ability of the RDM to up their TP gain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calatilla
Expend TP, improve your casting ability by channeling and eating the WS for fuel. Cast spells after a skillchain and channel the MB'd result for better TP generation or other self-enhancing effects so you can drain more WS to buff yourself to cast on others.
Say a Cyclone gives you your next enhancement spell a Diffusion-style effect if channeled, while channeling a Fire III off your party's Fusion WS would give the RDM a long-lasting 5% DA boost, ala a weaker Temper (lower MP Fire-based spells would give you a shorter duration, more MP = longer buff). Shining Blade? That next Cure you throw on another person is boosted with lower enmity. Seraph Blade instead? It even adds a bit of a DEF buff besides- snagging the "support job required" or more potent versions of similar WS's would be a perk to the RDM doing his job while keeping the party up and running.
Fueling an RDM's casting ability with melee isn't to make them into a DD- but rather, a mechanism to make the RDM a better "back liner" in the form of his protective, healing, and enhancing magics- and possibly enfeebling as well, though you'd have to make it sorta back-handed. Something along the lines of MB'ing a Dark spell, Channeling it = adds weakened resistance to Enfeeblement spells when striking with an Enspell II'd weapon. -
12-12-2012, 11:56 AMzataz
<,<the link shell i'm in lets me come rdm/nin to anything i want. they don't care guess i'm just lucky. i run with friends vs total strangers who would not let me do it.
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12-13-2012, 12:35 AMRusticMy question here would be- do you feel useful doing so? Does your party/alliance suffer without you around vs, oh, another tank or support type? I mean, sure- we're just peachy if it comes to soloing, and RDM/NIN is about as "solo" as we get since it lets us grind mobs down. We can do our thing, but nowadays we share those abilities with other jobs that can out-do one or the other. Are we good at melee? DRK or WAR is better. Are we good at support and healing? SCH or WHM or BRD (or even in some cases SMN, hello Perfect Defense) take the cake.Quote:
Originally Posted by zataz
Given, once upon a time we were a job that had our unique forms of oomph that let us do things nobody else could. 24 more levels changed a lot of that. We need RDM to be tweaked to have it's own unique abilities that let it perform in parties and alliances not as a second-tier (well, we can kinda DD or kinda support if you don't have those other guys...) job, but one that matches up with the rest of the group in usefulness. When I looked at DNC, it's a job that fuels it's abilities via melee, but generates effects we'd consider "support" (healing, buff/debuff) in the process- and to me, I think that RDM could find it's way back through use of similar mechanics. -
12-13-2012, 03:40 PMMageoholic
We need RDM to be tweaked to outperform /RDM. Until SE addresses the fact that our 2 useful party buffs are available via subjob at the same value as RDM main can provide groups will never need a RDM. Why bring a RDM and a BRD to buff a group, when you can bring a BRD/RDM to provide the same buffs. 7Tick/refresh, Capped Magical Haste. How can RDM compete with that on its own, it can't.
What SE needs to address is the mechanics of Enhancing in the same vein as the mechanical adjustment to Healing. Main jobs with native skill above level 75 need to be reaching higher caps on these static spells than subjobs using them at half the level. A level 99 RDM should be landing a higher % haste than a level 49 RDM.
Adding spells and abilities are Placebos until SE can address the root cause issues.
Same applies to enfeebling but enfeebling also needs to be more useful on mobs, such as paralyze hitting TP moves, and players TP feeding reduced so Slow reduces the mobs native gain of TP, which should primarily come from using its own melee attacks.
The game does not need another wannabe DD, it doesn't even really need more wannabe support. What it does need is a job that can provide support, and supplemental damage, with the tools to take a few hits without dying in the process. By adjusting enfeebling and enhancing potency through skill, and allowing enfeebling greater effect, RDM fills that roll through its native tools it has today, with supplemental damage coming from Melee or Nuking, and the tools to take several hits from RDM's extensive defensive selection.
RDM has all the tools it needs to be a party job, it just needs them to be effective, and it really needs them to be above and beyond what the tools currently offer as a subjob (in the case of enhancing) or other jobs (in the case of enfeebling.)
When SE makes RDM work better than /RDM and be desired for a group, then ideas on how to increase certain aspects of the job should be considered.
Building a house without a foundation is just expensive and pointless.