Draw in for PLD?

I had an ability idea for paladin. An ability that is similar to the move certain enemies use on us: Draw In. Yank the enemy to the paladin and reduce everyone's hate by an amount EXCEPT the paladin. Everyone else loses some, paladin gains some.

This would be really fun the next time a certain blu rips hate off me and runs around like a chicken with her head cut off. *YANK* my mob! You can't have it!

Note this wasn't meant as a "how to fix pld" thread, I just thought it'd be cool. Thoughts?

I kind of wish I hadn't used the language "like draw in". It kind of implies depop-repop at this position and I think a kind of reverse knockback is a better mechanic and was how I imagined it. And it was all about the hate steal not crowd control and draw in was usually nailing the whole group.

"I'm the protector, you should fight me!" *Gank!
Yeah, I like it. I wouldn't even mind giving the paladin just an "emnity absorb" ability such as that.

I'd love this. Particularly if it could be used on multiple enemies. But unlike mob draw in, I'd like it if it put them a few yalms in front of me rather than directly on top of me. Getting large amounts of mobs to stay in front of me, where I can shield block, can be a pain in the ass.

seems like cool ideal

I think it's pretty fantastic. I say they should go for it =P

I don't think multiple targets at once would work very well and SE would be less likely to implement it as an AoE. The mobs would immediately try to rearrange themselves the same way they do if I pull a bunch, more than a few makes them wander all over each other. This also acts as a mini voke and lowers party members hate in my original idea (a partial not full but nevertheless a hate wipe), I can't see them doing that for more than a single claimed target for us.

Lets stick to single target grabbage and if it goes well we can try and talk them into a 2nd tier/AoE later.

It's that very same random running around that I'd want to use this to prevent. It's quite possible to get massive(15~) numbers of mobs to stand all in one little pile in front of you. But its hard to do, and you usually have drag them along a wall or terrain feature of some sort that they can't move on top of.

If the Draw in put them all in exactly the same spot, in melee range of me, I'm not sure they'd need to move at all. If things did work out like that, it would make mass pulling and AoE burning a lot simpler. Although.. that'd be one ungodly pile of chests.... <,<;

Now, as much as I'd like this, AoE or not, I think it's very unlikely that SE will give us anything that allows us to directly move a mob. It's potential for abuse is just so high.

Although a lot of that depends on its recast. If you can spam it, then you could just keep pulling the mob away from the players with hate while they ranged/nuke DD, effectively "draw-in kiting".

If you can't spam it, it's use becomes pretty limited. Sure you can pull a mob away from someone for a second, but its just gonna go after then again. Those few seconds might save then, or it might kill them as soon as it reaches them again. The attached mini-voke might keep the mob on you, but if you couldn't get hate in the first place I doubt that's going to make the difference. Which makes it about as useful as cover. Maybe a bit more since it wouldn't matter who had hate(so you don't waste the recast only to have hate shift seconds later...), or if they were in your party.

I have a few thoughts on balancing draw-in for player use... but I need to think em over some more. They'd still cause issues I don't think SE would like much.

So, it'd be fun to have, but the difficulty in balancing its usefulness with its potential for abuse makes it unlikely that we'll get any form of draw-in.(Prove me wrong SE! <,<)

Been my experiance the little sobs won't stop trying to separate even if it means going up walls or strafing me for 10 minutes straight. If its 2-5 they try to line up side by side, more than that they tend more and more to re-overlap and then re-adjust over and over. Bad luck?

I doubt something like this would have a short enough recast for abuse.

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Sure you can pull a mob away from someone for a second, but its just gonna go after then again.

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Did you miss the part about lowering the other persons hate? Pretty useless to move mob without that yeah, since the other person would still have all of their hate and it would run right back.

I kind of wish I hadn't used the language "like draw in". It kind of implies depop-repop at this position and I think a kind of reverse knockback is a better mechanic and was how I imagined it. And it was all about the hate steal not crowd control and draw was usually nailing the whole group. So I really opened a can of worms huh.

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Originally Posted by GlobalVariable

Been my experiance the little sobs won't stop trying to separate even if it means going up walls or strafing me for 10 minutes straight. If its 2-5 they try to line up side by side, more than that they tend more and more to re-overlap and then re-adjust over and over. Bad luck?

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I've had reasonable success at getting them all to stay put by slowly dragging them along a wall(or other impassable obstacle) and watching for when they settle. But the more mobs you get the harder that is.

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Originally Posted by GlobalVariable

I doubt something like this would have a short enough recast for abuse.

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I did mention that the recast would be one of the limiting factors. But increasing the recast also decreases the ability's usefulness.While an ability of this sort would be cool, I'd prefer they implement it in a manner that actually makes it useful.

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Originally Posted by GlobalVariable

Did you miss the part about lowering the other persons hate?

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I did address that, briefly.

"The attached mini-voke might keep the mob on you, but if you couldn't get hate in the first place I doubt that's going to make the difference."

However I thought you'd described the the CE reducing attribute as a mini-voke, implying that it was a rather small reduction. And considering the massive chunks of enmity a single good WS can yield, a small reduction would be recovered very quickly indeed.

Looking again, I see you said a mini-voke AND enmity reduction, meaning a small increase for the pld, and a reduction of an unspecified amount to others. My apologies, I combined the two.

If the CE reduction for others is of a respectable amount(25%~
perhaps?) then this could buy you a reasonable amount of time even at capped hate situations.

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Originally Posted by GlobalVariable

I kind of wish I hadn't used the language "like draw in". It kind of implies depop-repop at this position and I think a kind of reverse knockback is a better mechanic and was how I imagined it.

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Hmm, yeah. I like that better too. A depop-repop would cause all kinds of problems. everyone loses target, gets force-disengaged and just generally pissed off. Just dragging the mob to you is a much better idea.

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Originally Posted by GlobalVariable

And it was all about the hate steal not crowd control and draw was usually nailing the whole group.

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Yes, I seem to have rather spectacularly missed the point there. The thread title was about draw-in, and that's the aspect of this I found the most interesting. So I focused a bit too much on that, I think.

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Originally Posted by GlobalVariable

So I really opened a can of worms huh.

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I don't think you did. You gave me something interesting to think about and I posted my thoughts on that. Thanks for giving me something to fill a bit of this FFXI bereft void with. <,<; If I sounded offended, accusing, angry, or anything of that sort, I apologize. That wasn't my intent.

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If the CE reduction for others is of a respectable amount(25%~
perhaps?) then this could buy you a reasonable amount of time even at capped hate situations.

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That's along the lines of what I was thinking. % or a fraction, possibly the pld's increase in relation to their decrease rather than a fixed amount; I figured if SE liked the idea of it they'd make the hate changes worthwhile.

There is one other major thing to prevent this happening. There may be programing reason behind tractor using a depop-repop mechanic like draw in, which I've wanted them to change for years. It may be that such an effect is simply to difficult to be worth the needed code and why tractor works the way it does.

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I don't think you did. You gave me something interesting to think about and I posted my thoughts on that. Thanks for giving me something to fill a bit of this FFXI bereft void with. <,<; If I sounded offended, accusing, angry, or anything of that sort, I apologize. That wasn't my intent.

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I kind of thought I wasn't communicating well / made it sound to different from what I actually meant.

Pardon my million edits, I can't seem to type today @.@