Spirits Re-make

as a smn for years even before 76+ cap i've been talking to my friends and linkshell mates on how we Smns got screwed when it comes to summon spirits cause we have no control on which spells they cast and no way to see how much mp it has and avatar perp doesn't work on spirits and i know cause i tested ton of avatar perp - gear had over 16- and mp cost and perp was the same as without all the gear and yet i used fenrir with same perp- gear and ended up getting 3tick back into my MP and thats without favor active
so Long story short Add some control to spirits so we can control which spells they use and maybe if you can add raise spell to light spirit :) and fix the perp down stuff

Spirits were not made to be in the same level as avatars.

You need to realize that, by giving us Elemental Siphon, SE gave us a reason to have spirits in the first place, except for completion sake.

Opposite to the above post, I think it's a wonderful idea. :D There's nothing wrong with wanting to maximize the use out of part of a job, especially when that part has been forgotten since Elemental Siphon.

The playstyle between Avatars and Elementals is very different, Spirits relying much more on Summoning Magic skill for their timer in order to do the best they can do. However, due to the lack of discernable INT or MAB traits, the magic damage is sub-par at best. All they really need to do is increase the magic damage, and make them a little more conformed to how other Avatars play, ie, make them cost less and add some control in the form of Blood Pact: Rage. I doubt it would be too bad on memory, considering PS2 limitations, but I think they could manage if they wanted to.

At the very least, the magic skill of spirits (i.e. elemental, divine, enfeebling) needs to be raised so they're not interrupted and resisted as much. I don't see many options when it comes to balancing spirits. They can't be balanced with mp costs (Flare costs more than Burn) because we can just resummon them with a full mp pool anyway. Perhaps if they cycled between spells, or didn't overwrite current elemental enfeebles, then they'd be more viable. One option that I think would strike a good balance would be to implement a charge system similar to beastmaster pets.

For anyone not familiar with the system, you store points over time, and spend them on abilities that your pet performs. The more powerful an ability is, the more charges it takes up. The same concept could be applied to spirits. For example, Burn could cost 1 point while Flare costs 3. This would take care of the problem where currently the spirits with the fewest enfeeble spells are the most useful, as they have the highest chance of casting a damaging spell. Implementing this system would mean that each spirit would be useful in its own right.

Putting the ancient magic aside, this system would allow the smn to be much more versatile. This would allow summoners to intentionally apply enfeebles like silence, slow, paralyze, etc. As we all know, our own versions of these spells are often resisted due to our skill in enfeebling/dark being extremely low (only get these skills from SJs).

I mean no disrespect but many other spirit threads have been created already but I guess it don't hurt for more to let SE know they need adjustment.

My thoughts are with Korpg on this, sorry...I do agree spirits need a type of an adjustment though...just not to surpass our avatars.

I think spirit's magic accuracy should be tied to the SMN's magic skill or something. by itself its really pathetic and the whole skill over cap thing has no effect on non-BP stuff, meaning spirits get no benefit from it at all.

as for control over spirits, I do feel that some control will be needed if we are to be able to use spirits effectively. I still think a Blood Pact: Elemental category which allows players to pick which stance the player wants the spirits to be in would be the most intuitive way to implement this.

Full control of whatever spells would be too much.. I believe SE is wary not to have spirits supercede the effectiveness of Stormwaker automaton in terms of balancing spirits.

I also agree that Spirits should not be balanced up to the extent where they can supercede avatars but to a point where the player gains a benefit in specifically using spirits instead of avatars.

2 suggestion i might make.

1) Give elemental spirits Favors. Have each favor simply be an elemental resistance bonus for the party. This would strongly enhance the SMNs defensive options.
edit: make it much more potent than Fenrir

2) Allow spirits to absorb elemental damage from their own element instead of resisting it. This would give spirits a certain edge over avatars in various situations but not in an offensive capacity, partly because they still work on the same spell system, and also because elementally, the mob will likely not be weak to the same element it can deal.

Degrees of balance.

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Originally Posted by solodragon1984

we have no control on which spells they cast

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I can't say im overly hurt about that BUT I do wish they would add some more support abilities to the eles, like for example a pty wide buff spell, Stoneskin-ga for the Earth ele, Ice Spike-ga for the Ice ele just to emphasize SMN is a supportive role.

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Originally Posted by solodragon1984

and no way to see how much mp it has

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Completely by accident (using my PUP macros whilst on SMN) I found that the MP% Macro dose in-fact work on SMNs Elementals! It may only be a percentage but its workable. <petmpp> for those who have never use it! :D

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Originally Posted by solodragon1984

and avatar prep doesn't work on spirits and i know cause i tested ton of avatar prep - gear had over 16- and mp cost and prep was the same as without all the gear and yet i used fenrir with same prep- gear and ended up getting 3tick back into my MP and thats without favor active

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Not sure if your talking about AF3 or not, but after some testing... (Im standing in the Tree waiting on Thunder weather... anyone guess what im doing >.>; lol ) but it dose effect the elementals mp cost, most notable to the hands which half the cost of the elemental if its the correct corresponding day.

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Originally Posted by Elvyn

I can't say im overly hurt about that BUT I do wish they would add some more support abilities to the eles, like for example a pty wide buff spell, Stoneskin-ga for the Earth ele, Ice Spike-ga for the Ice ele just to emphasize SMN is a supportive role.

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Um....SMNs already have that....

Earthen Ward....
Frost Armor....
Aerial Armor....
Hastaga....
Noctoshield....

Those are the names of a few....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elvyn

I can't say im overly hurt about that BUT I do wish they would add some more support abilities to the eles, like for example a pty wide buff spell, Stoneskin-ga for the Earth ele, Ice Spike-ga for the Ice ele just to emphasize SMN is a supportive role.

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Apparently you missed my point...any relation to Dallas?

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Originally Posted by Elvyn

Apparently you missed my point...any relation to Dallas?

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I saw your point, I still think it is stupid. You are basically asking for the same thing we already have, but with no control!

Why do you think we, as SMNs, would want that at all?