Puppetmaster Accessing Asuran Fists

At the time I had originally posted this, I didn't have enough arguments to support the post. But I let it run as a discussion over in the PUP forum area and decided to repost here. (While people frown on [To the Devs] tags, I have noticed they reply more times than not to topics that begin with it.) I apologize for the repost, but here it is.

Ever since the update last year that increased Puppetmaster's combat rating up from 225 cap (@Lv.75) to 256(@Lv.75), many had hoped that we'd be able to access Asuran Fists. Now, I know Stringing Pummel and Victory Smite do more damage than Asuran Fists anyway, and I'm most likely blowing hot air posting this, but here are a few arguments for why we should be allowed to quest for this Weapon Skill...

1) We're the only other job that actually mains Hand-to-Hand in this game.
2) The only reason we originally could not obtain this Weapon Skill was because PUPs could not reach the skill level to open quest without merits/gear. (Asuran Fists quest is 250 Hand-to-Hand. Puppetmaster's new cap at 75 is 256.)
3) Every job besides PUP gets access to at least one WSNM Weapon Skill if not multiple.
---a) Empyreal Arrow - RNG
---b) Decimation - WAR BST DRK RNG
---c) Black Halo - PLD WHM BLU WAR MNK BLM SMN SCH
---d) Evisceration - THF COR RDM DNC WAR RNG BRD BST NIN
---e) Steel Cyclone - WAR DRK
---f) Tachi: Kasha - SAM
---g) Ground Strike - DRK WAR PLD
---h) Asuran Fists - MNK
---i) Detonator - RNG COR
---j) Impulse Drive - DRG SAM WAR
---k) Spiral Hell - DRK WAR BST
---l) Retribution - PLD WAR MNK SMN BLM WHM BRD SCH
---m) Savage Blade - WAR RDM BLU PLD COR DRK

So I ask again; why isn't PUP allowed to obtain Asuran Fists?

(Arguments thus far)

1) Was originally MNK only, should stay MNK only. (But Dancing Edge/Shark Bite use to be THF only and then DNC was added on. "But those aren't WSNM WSs" Fine. Detonator. Originally RNG only, COR was added on due to them getting the combat skill requirement. Speaking of COR, they were added to Savage Blade and Evisceration also. I realize they reached those skill levels originally when the job was first released, but the 225 on PUP was a joke. (Which is why it was raised last year, no?))

2) PUP doesn't need it because they have Stringing Pummel/Victory Smite. (BST mains Axes and rarely, if ever, use scythe and daggers. They don't "need" Sprial Hell nor Evisceration; but they still get them. COR's main damage is from marksmenship. They don't need Savage Blade/Evisceration. MNK mains Hand-to-Hand. Why do they need Staff/Club WSs? Again; because the Dev team gave them the combat rating. Thus, because they got the combat skill without merits/gear before or at level 75, they were allowed to partake in the WSNM quest. And, as I said before, Puppetmaster's Hand-to-hand skill cap is now 256. Asuran Fists quest is 250.)

3) The time spent adding PUP onto the weapons could be used to fix the Automaton AI. (You think that adding Puppetmaster onto one weapon would take longer than rewriting an AI program? You think it'd take that much effort that they'd say "well, that's all they'll get for a while. Let's save the AI program for next year." It's been how long since WHM/BLM frames have been out? And they still havn't done anything about -nas before Cures and high thresholds for Aspir/Drain. The AI works for solo play. They meant PUP to be a solo job that can still DD in party formats (like BST.))

4) If they wanted us to have it, they'd have done it when we received the combat update. (True. But there's so many things that certain jobs should have gotten, and are now getting (Yonin/Innin on seperate timers. Longer duration on Last Resort. Just to name a few.) I am hoping to get a Dev to notice this thread and at least say yay or nay.)

5) Just make Stringing Pummel a blue proc! (Why should this be the only Mythic WS to proc? None of the others proc because the Dev team know that WSNM WSs are easier to get than Nyzul WSs; compare a set 300 points to a weapon that needs 250~16,000.)

6) Puppetmaster can't wear the type of weapon the trial weapon is for Asuran Fists. (DNC can't use the type of weapon for Evisceration. By that I meant the Dagger of Trials is not the standard type of Dagger DNC can normally equip.) Savage Blade's weapon is a Sapara; a type of sword that RDM and COR normally can't use.)

7) There's only a one in three chance that, during blunt hours, the WS is Hand-to-Hand. And then a one in five chance it's Asuran Fists. (True, true. But, like people have said, procing !! is such a small part of the game. And, honestly, I admit to originally writing this thread for blue procing on PUP. But now it's just for equaility... To get what every other job has;access to their main weapon's WSNM.)

8) Stringing Pummel/Victory Smite is better. (While this is true, if you met a MNK that didn't have Asuran Fists, most of you would insist on laughing at them. If you met any job that doesn't have the WSNM for their main weapon (save maybe for a mage), you'd tell your linkshell all about it and everyone would have a good laugh. Atm, PUP is expected to not have it because they don't have access to it. Stringing Pummel/Victory Smite is better damage for PUP, yes. But Ascetic's Fury/Victory Smite is better for MNK with damage.)

9) It'd ruin the lore behind the quest. (Honestly, the lore behind quests/NPCs is ignored when needed. The PLD starter NPC? He also plays a role in the DRG quest. And teaches Impulse Drive. A DRG/WAR/SAM WS. Why isn't PLD included on it? (Because of low combat ranking in polearm.) Or, and this time it isn't some minor quest thing, what about Aegis? The NPC in the past that weilds it is Cerane I Virgaut, where as the NPC you see during the CS is Perseus. Hell, the original owner of Annihilator was Elivira, but then the CS shows Elrica (might be related in some way since both are humes, but...) You look up any other relic weapon wielded by an Allied Army NPC, and they're the NPC for the CS.

And, I can't believe I almost forgot about this, what about Gungnir? It is the javelin wielded by Odin, and yet Odin is seen wielding a completely different polearm, which he calls Gungnir. (In the Dev Team's defense though, they did make the relic weapons before they planned on making Odin a monster. And while it is not called Gungnir directly, they are names the polearm was also known by.)

All in all, if they need to make a loophole around lore, they can.)

Sorry for the wall of text.

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1) We're the only other job that actually mains Hand-to-Hand in this game.

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Before the update, hand to hand was not pup's highest skill ranked weapon

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2) The only reason we originally could not obtain this Weapon Skill was because PUPs could not reach the skill level to open quest without merits/gear. (Asuran Fists quest is 250 Hand-to-Hand. Puppetmaster's new cap at 75 is 256.)

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Says who? Did you design the game? How do you know that's the only reason? It may be one of the reasons, but the only? You make a bold claim

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3) Every job besides PUP gets access to at least one WSNM Weapon Skill if not multiple.

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Not every job has to do every thing. Sch and dnc still don't have salvage gear.
Sch pup and dnc still aren't on any sky gear
etc. Not every job will get to do every little thing.

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1) Was originally MNK only, should stay MNK only.

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You were arguing w/ dumb points. Never a point I'd have made or will make. My reasons above are enough, but I'll address the rest of these points.

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2) PUP doesn't need it because they have Stringing Pummel/Victory Smite. (BST mains Axes and rarely, if ever, use scythe and daggers. They don't "need" Sprial Hell nor Evisceration; but they still get them. COR's main damage is from marksmenship. They don't need Savage Blade/Evisceration. MNK mains Hand-to-Hand. Why do they need Staff/Club WSs? Again; because the Dev team gave them the combat rating. Thus, because they got the combat skill without merits/gear before or at level 75, they were allowed to partake in the WSNM quest. And, as I said before, Puppetmaster's Hand-to-hand skill cap is now 256. Asuran Fists quest is 250.)

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Again, I've already addressed this as well. Not every job gets every thing. I don't see how that's a difficult concept to understand and yes, whoever made that argument is 100% right. Pummel and smite are miles ahead of Asuran.

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3) The time spent adding PUP onto the weapons could be used to fix the Automaton AI. (You think that adding Puppetmaster onto one weapon would take longer than rewriting an AI program? You think it'd take that much effort that they'd say "well, that's all they'll get for a while. Let's save the AI program for next year." It's been how long since WHM/BLM frames have been out? And they still havn't done anything about -nas before Cures and high thresholds for Aspir/Drain. The AI works for solo play. They meant PUP to be a solo job that can still DD in party formats (like BST.))

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Well, actually, something even as simple as more wyvern colors, they said would take a lot of man power. You'd be surprised at all these small things people are asking for and the development team is responding on here saying how much more complicated it is than it actually seems. None of us here know how much time it'd take, so neither the person who said that nor you can really make that argument, because neither of you know

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4) If they wanted us to have it, they'd have done it when we received the combat update. (True. But there's so many things that certain jobs should have gotten, and are now getting (Yonin/Innin on seperate timers. Longer duration on Last Resort. Just to name a few.) I am hoping to get a Dev to notice this thread and at least say yay or nay.)

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And that was development time used on something that most people would agree are worthwhile updates. Last resort improves drk's dd capability drastically. The separate timers increase nin's tanking ability as well. So you're giving useful examples for comparison. Pup getting an extra 6.67% chance to proc blue, when the game isn't even going to forever be in abyssea, rly isn't what I'd consider something comparable to your examples (especially considering that even w/ asuran, pup would still be a horrible choice for a blue proc job)

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5) Just make Stringing Pummel a blue proc! (Why should this be the only Mythic WS to proc? None of the others proc because the Dev team know that WSNM WSs are easier to get than Nyzul WSs; compare a set 300 points to a weapon that needs 250~16,000.)

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Well, I think that's a dumb idea to begin with, so I'll say now I don't agree w/ whoever made that idea's idea, but your refute... Nyzul ws' are not hard to get, sorry.

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6) Puppetmaster can't wear the type of weapon the trial weapon is for Asuran Fists. (DNC can't use the type of weapon for Evisceration. By that I meant the Dagger of Trials is not the standard type of Dagger DNC can normally equip.) Savage Blade's weapon is a Sapara; a type of sword that RDM and COR normally can't use.)

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Again, dumb point and if you're so adamant about pup having asuran, you would have pointed out that there are a couple 'kunckles" type weapons that pup can use. Still doesn't make a diff.

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7) There's only a one in three chance that, during blunt hours, the WS is Hand-to-Hand. And then a one in five chance it's Asuran Fists. (True, true. But, like people have said, procing !! is such a small part of the game. And, honestly, I admit to originally writing this thread for blue procing on PUP. But now it's just for equaility... To get what every other job has;access to their main weapon's WSNM.)

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Equality? Lol if your post isn't about proccing, then it holds even less merit than the SMALL amount it did before. The ws is worthless other than that.

Again, I use my previous examples of not every job has every thing (reread above if you forgot already)

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8) Stringing Pummel/Victory Smite is better. (While this is true, if you met a MNK that didn't have Asuran Fists, most of you would insist on laughing at them. If you met any job that doesn't have the WSNM for their main weapon (save maybe for a mage), you'd tell your linkshell all about it and everyone would have a good laugh. Atm, PUP is expected to not have it because they don't have access to it. Stringing Pummel/Victory Smite is better damage for PUP, yes. But Ascetic's Fury/Victory Smite is better for MNK with damage.)

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While this is true, if you met a MNK that didn't have Asuran Fists, most of you would insist on laughing at them.

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Simply for the purpose that mnk IS a primary proccing job, if I'm bringing you to something in abyssea, I expect you to have 14/15 blunt blue procs.

Outside of abyssea, I personally wouldn't care. It'd have 0 effect on their performance. If anyone else would laugh or w/e for that reason, then they're just retards who know probably less about game mechanics than the person they're belittling.

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If you met any job that doesn't have the WSNM for their main weapon (save maybe for a mage), you'd tell your linkshell all about it and everyone would have a good laugh.

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If it was a worthless one, not at all.

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But Ascetic's Fury/Victory Smite is better for MNK with damage.)

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Again, mnk is the primary blue proccer, if that were not the case, it really wouldn't matter at all. Outside of abysesa? doesn't matter at all (unless they don't have victory smite, because then asuran is their best ws again)

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9) It'd ruin the lore behind the quest. (Honestly, the lore behind quests/NPCs is ignored when needed. The PLD starter NPC? He also plays a role in the DRG quest. And teaches Impulse Drive. A DRG/WAR/SAM WS. Why isn't PLD included on it? (Because of low combat ranking in polearm.) Or, and this time it isn't some minor quest thing, what about Aegis? The NPC in the past that weilds it is Cerane I Virgaut, where as the NPC you see during the CS is Perseus. Hell, the original owner of Annihilator was Elivira, but then the CS shows Elrica (might be related in some way since both are humes, but...) You look up any other relic weapon wielded by an Allied Army NPC, and they're the NPC for the CS.

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I don't really care about the quests, so again, whoever made this point was dumb.


Point is, not every job gets every little thing.
The person who said if SE wanted pup to have asuran, they'd have it was 100% right.

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

Point is, not every job gets every little thing.
The person who said if SE wanted mnk to have asuran, they'd have it was 100% right.

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Monk does have Asuran O.O

Meant pup, lol, edited.

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Originally Posted by Zaknafein

Monk does have Asuran O.O

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It only enhances his case!

Ooh, I see where Mizuharu is going. We make the devs believe PUP doesn't need OR want Asuran Fists, so it'll be changed so PUP can use it! (We still won't...)

Not sure if it'll work though.. some SE devs still think PUP is a staff-wielding melee-mage that raises skeletons as pets...

Here is my wishlist for PUP (as a puppetmaster)
#01 more dance emotes for my automation
#02 higher defence and offence for my automation
#03 more fancy weaponskills for my automation
#04 direct access/selection of automation weaponskills
#05 a polearm automation with a mini wyvern... that would be awesome =^.^=
#06 red and blue triggers for automation weaponskills within abyssea
#07 more puppetmaster with realistic wishes/requests/needs

I agree with the OP.

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Originally Posted by Ihnako

#06 red and blue triggers for automation weaponskills within abyssea

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Actually, that's more of a bad thing. Somehow, automatons will spam that WS then...

#06 goes hand in hand with #04 and it would improve the role of a puppetmaster instead of asking for a(nother) silly weaponskill