On Red Mage melee...

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Originally Posted by Rayik

And aside from Refresh, how is it that the WHM can't do all the above? Why can't the WHM hit those DD's and you somehow can?

EDIT: Oh wait, WHM can just /rdm and get Resfresh 1 AND Convert too. So yeah, how are you out-doing the WHM again?

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Maybe to save them the trouble of having to refresh/cure/haste every single person? Really, Refresh2>refresh1 and /sch>/rdm for whm so your point is moot again. You would really expect the whm to cure/haste/refresh every person on an HNM fight so that the RDM could hit the mob with his sword? I must have forgotten the part where RDM can addle/slow2/para2, you know simple things that dont mean anything. Leaving all the haste/cure/refresh duty to the whm is pretty stupid, having another person to share hasting is pretty nice for events like voidwatch.

Edit: I never said I would out-do WHM, do you take me for a fool?

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Originally Posted by Aurara

Maybe to save them the trouble of having to refresh/cure/haste every single person? Really, Refresh2>refresh1 and /sch>/rdm for whm so your point is moot again. You would really expect the whm to cure/haste/refresh every person on an HNM fight so that the RDM could hit the mob with his sword? I must have forgotten the part where RDM can addle/slow2/para2, you know simple things that dont mean anything. Leaving all the haste/cure/refresh duty to the whm is pretty stupid, having another person to share hasting is pretty nice for events like voidwatch.

Edit: I never said I would out-do WHM, do you take me for a fool?

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Anything you can do, a 2nd WHM can do better. In this role, you are a half-assed WHM at best; even with the best gear and skills, a specialist job can cast circles around you. Heck a SCH, which is yet another hybrid, can even -aga most of those buffs you cycle through.

Weren't we just having this go-round on the subject of melee?

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Originally Posted by Rayik

Anything you can do, a 2nd WHM can do better. In this role, you are a half-assed WHM at best; even with the best gear and skills, a specialist job can cast circles around you. Heck a SCH, which is yet another hybrid, can even -aga most of those buffs you cycle through.

Weren't we just having this go-round on the subject of melee?

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So whm can keep mobs slow2/para2'd? A 2nd whm is hardly needed unless its dualboxed, but then again you like arguing in circles to try and prove a point.

Edit: I forgot the 34 DT phalanx that rdm gives, woops! Let's not forget that out of abyssea RDM can still compete with whm for cures and is very useful for backup cures.

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Originally Posted by Aurara

So whm can keep mobs slow2/para2'd? A 2nd whm is hardly needed unless its dualboxed, but then again you like arguing in circles to try and prove a point.

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You see many shouts in PJ for a RDM to para2/slow2 a NM? Really? How am I arguing in circles? Yes, we're going in circles because you are contradicting yourself. My original argument was that a RDM can contribute to dealing damage(but not replace a DD), and you came out swinging like I just insulted the Pope. You argue that a RDM can contribute to buffing and curing(but not replace a WHM). See where I'm going with this? We're saying the same thing.

RDM are the ultimate contributers/support job. RDM fills gaps in parties, but can do very little to stand on it's own.

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Originally Posted by Aurara

Edit: I forgot the 34 DT phalanx that rdm gives, woops! Let's not forget that out of abyssea RDM can still compete with whm for cures and is very useful for backup cures.

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And WHM can add a Stoneskin effect with it's cures. Outside of Abyssea a BLM can back up cure just as well(psst-blm can get cure4 with /whm too). What's your point again?

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Originally Posted by Rayik

And WHM can add a Stoneskin effect with it's cures. Outside of Abyssea a BLM can back up cure just as well(psst-blm can get cure4 with /whm too)What's your point again?

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No...blm can't cure just as well as RDM less Fastcast/poor MP management ability makes its very difficult for a blm/whm(with inferior subjob to boot)to cure DDs.

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Originally Posted by Aurara

No...blm can't cure just as well as RDM less Fastcast/poor MP management ability makes its very difficult for a blm/whm(with inferior subjob to boot)to cure DDs.

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If we're talking back-up cure, sure. BLM can back up a main healing WHM no prob. Main healing? Nope, BLM can't do it. But if your RDM is just back-up healing in that situation, where is the rest of your attention? Enfeebling? Sure, you can cast a couple and given enough potency gear, last a pretty good amount of time. What are you doing during while they are still in effect? You stand there. I melee.

I stand there and watch for enfeebs on the melees so i can remove them asap, you get hit by said enfeebs and are unable to do anything because you're /nin and can't take them off yourself after you echo drop yourself. Seriously, rdm shouldn't be meleeing because you feed unnecessary amounts of TP, and usually neglect from your duties, which i can assure you is not meleeing the mob because you think you're helping.

If a blm is healing it means he was too goddamned stupid to nuke so that the mob would be dead already.

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Originally Posted by Aurara

I stand there and watch for enfeebs on the melees so i can remove them asap, you get hit by said enfeebs and are unable to do anything because you're /nin and can't take them off yourself after you echo drop yourself. Seriously, rdm shouldn't be meleeing because you feed unnecessary amounts of TP, and usually neglect from your duties, which i can assure you is not meleeing the mob because you think you're helping.

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You're assuming an awful lot with this one. Going as far as to decide my subjob for me, yikes. I agree on the TP feed thing, though. RDM melee is still not a great solution in this game by any means, it needs a tweak. But, that's all it needs; just a nudge from the Devs and we could be really viable. BLU does it, the potential is there, just barely out of RDM's reach.

But again, you stand there, when you could be doing something else to contribute and still watch for status. I personally keep a ton of chat filters on, so my log isn't all cluttered and I can see status changes easier.