Any new HNM coming?

Youuu must have balance Danielsan!!!! Show me paint the fence! Nah nah nah nah... Shoooowww me Paint the fence!!!

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

I already proposed a way to make bots useless on world pop HNMs:

When the NM pops it would be open to attack from anyone for about 3 seconds, after 3 seconds claim would be passed to a random person on it's hate list. This way you have to pay attention to the spawn and be quick to attack it to get on it's hate list. The excitement of camping and competition are maintained and bots are rendered 100% useless.

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Seriously stop pitching that Idea, It was retarded the first 300 times you've posted it in this thread

Man i hope this voidwalker thing isn't another VNM kinda deal.

It probably is, or something similar.

but dude, I know people who miss vnms so much. Like 20 of them will come back to the game if this is expanded on!

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

but dude, I know people who miss vnms so much. Like 20 of them will come back to the game if this is expanded on!

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Hahahaha!!

The Voidwalker system had potential. Imagine deformed Beastmen from another dimension (not just the black Tonberry we got in Abyssea - Konschtat). Maybe Gu'Dha, Za'Dha's "brother" that he mentions upon dying appears from another dimension and he's twice as big as Za'Dha, has a shell that looks to be made of Diamond (and makes it so any attacks behind him are nullified as an added trick) and so on. Imagine a Behemoth that makes King Behemoth look like a Rarab standing next to an Amphiptere and it could have so crazy new look.

I also love the look of the new creatures they've revealed. That 4 armed creature in the main picture, the one that seems to remind everyone of Gilgamesh - I looked closely and it looks like a giant skeleton with flowing locks of silver hair and 4 arms, got into a fight with a giant Antican with 4 arms, killed it, tore off the exoskeleton, and is now wearing it as armor.

I can't believe I read the entire thread. All I'm getting from some of these posts is Syndrome's classic line, "And when everyone is super, no one is." I was not aware that stats of the Uber Gear+50 went down with the presence of more on the server.

I agree that the challenge should come with the fight and not in the claim. I understand there's a certain thrill of racing to a NM and finally claimed. I sorta liked the idea of using Abyssea's stagger system mentioned a few posts back to determine who gets the claim, but I'd ammend to that. If it still goes unclaimed after a certain amount of time has passed, the restrictions ease up.

Though I don't have firsthand experience with HNMLS, my finding out that one of my closest friends in the game was using a bot made me feel bretrayed. I knew other people were screwing my chances of a BB, but not any of my best friends.

If they continue the current trend it means everyone should have the exact same gear/Stats/Do the same thing h/e many ppl left on XI is doing. Abyssea took any and all competition out of the game that distinguished players and shells. Now XI getting another system that promotes the notion we all should be the same? i hope not.

At least with the old HNM system i had something to look forward to daily, you can nerd rage on about how bad you think HNM and how "my kind" ruined the game, i think QQers who couldn't cut it ruined the game. You can't compete so you just throw a fit to get it all but abolished. Now its "oh look someone killed "X" NM....everyone else on server killed it to. With noobs runnin around in the same gear you have, and we all know its true so don't lie and say everyone is a good player, donno why you tolerate it.

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If they continue the current trend it means everyone should have the exact same gear/Stats/Do the same thing h/e many ppl left on XI is doing. Abyssea took any and all competition out of the game that distinguished players and shells. Now XI getting another system that promotes the notion we all should be the same? i hope not.

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"I have to be better than other people to enjoy the game."

Again, superiority complex.

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

"I have to be better than other people to enjoy the game."

Again, superiority complex.

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this shouldn't come as a surprise to you. a huge number of games are built for people who like to compete. FFXI just doesn't facilitate competition the way it should.

No, i just don't wanna be lumped in with bad players.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

No, i just don't wanna be lumped in with bad players.

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Which means you want to have better gear than them.

What part of that is not wanting to be superior to them? Aka superiority complex?

Why does it matter what other people have? That has 0 effect on you whatsoever. In off chance you actually do something with them, (e.g. pick up group), then they'll be less of a hassle with better gear than with crappier gear.

So this either does nothing to you at all, or slightly enhances your pick up groups.

The only reason to want to have better gear than other people is your desire to be superior.

I was always a little thankful that some gear is easier to get.

It just means I'm a little less likely to not encounter complete gimps in pick up parties, as there is some minimal standard.

That's really life tho. Everyone is not equal. As I've said b4. Abyssea was great. I know a lot of people felt left out/behind for years. I'm happy they are pimpin now. I'm happy they feel more equal, and are enjoying themselves. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be a higher tier of gear for people who wanna put in that extra mile (or 12). Whether the gear comes from HNM, this new battle system we are all anticipating, PvP or w/e. It's not wrong to wanna strive for something elite.

Granted HNM had it's share of douchebags. Bots really were unpleasant even for those of us who thrived on competition, but didn't bot. Yet there were quality players believe it or not who didn't cheat, were decent people who just wanted that thrill. Who wanted to achieve, and reach another level.

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That's really life tho. Everyone is not equal.

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And it's the same in game. Even if you have the same gear, who is the better player and has better knowledge and can put the gear to better use is going to be obvious between a good player and a bad one.

Equal gear =/= equal players.

If you're a good player, you don't need better gear to outperform someone. You can do it in equivalent gear.

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

And it's the same in game. Even if you have the same gear, who is the better player and has better knowledge and can put the gear to better use is going to be obvious between a good player and a bad one.

Equal gear =/= equal players.

If you're a good player, you don't need better gear to outperform someone. You can do it in equivalent gear.

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I love you on BG Goku but I'm a little surprised you're not on the fence.

You're a good player.a always have been and you never had trouble getting the elite gear.

I am also happy everyone has gotten a chance at abbysea gear and ultimate weapons but I would expect a player of your level to also understand the other side. Theres nothing wrong with wanting to strive to be the best and have the best in game. Its one of the fun things about it. I don't think a SAM whos just abyssea burned to 90 in a week and then got masamune a week later, should be considered of the highest tier player.

If someone wants to put in more time and effort to acquire the highest tier of gear, there should be content for that. If someone wants to spend time hunting down the rarest of monsters, there should also be content for that. There should have always been content for very casual players, abyssea really encourages this. However, there should be content available for those who want to strive for the hardest, most time consuming content. That content should be of higher quality than the content you do casually because of the effort put in. It should be up to the player what they want to spend time doing. As I said Cream and im not kissing ass, you're cool people but I agree with Nateinn and you.

Nateinn is one of the players who enjoys hunting rare monsters. FFXI should provide this, as well as content for all types of players. Casual or elite. The difference in the gear should be amount to the effort but at the same time it shouldnt be ridiculous. Theres ways of balancing it.

Some people wanna compete. Some people want to hunt rare monsters. I approve of adding world spawns for these pplayers and the rewards for such content should be worthwhile to the people who want to spend vast amounts of time hunting them.

Some people wanna be casual. Do things when they can, when they want without having to compete. Theres plenty of content that supports this now and SE should continue to add more content and more worthwile rewards to please the casual player base.

Some people want to be elite or superior to the casual player. Wanting to just be better than someone else is not very productive in game or IRL. However, wanting to be the best player you can be at your jobs gear and or skill wise should be encouraged and wanting to strive for gear/items/rewards that are considered very rare/flashy/pretty should be available to these types of players. Some people just want to have those types of rare nice gears and like the hunter crowd, they also deserve to strive for whatever content is available, and there should be content provided for such a player.

Theres room for every type of player. In my honest opinion as a 8 year vet good gear,items, gil and etc rewards should be available to all players. I also think there should be Monsters, Gear, items that are more rare and harder to get than others for players who play more and dedicate more effort.

Also, depending on your play time schedule, you should devote time to your goals. I think trying to mold the game to suit one type of player base is making the game very boring and stale. If you are a casual player who wants the rare/flashy items, instead of asking SE to deny others, who are wanting to devote time to such goals; you should use your time you can play to making progress to your goals.

At same time, the rewards for world spawns or "elitism" shouldnt be so much more amazing than casual content to the point the casual players feel left out. They also should be allowed great rewards that are on level with the time and effort needed to obtain them.

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I am also happy everyone has gotten a chance at abbysea gear and ultimate weapons but I would expect a player of your level to also understand the other side.

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I understand it 100%

It's a superiority complex. The desire to be "better" than everyone else.

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I don't think a SAM whos just abyssea burned to 90 in a week and then got masamune a week later, should be considered of the highest tier player.

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If they're a sucky player they won't be. If they're outperforming your massamune sam, then maybe you should reevaluate your playstyle and learn some things from them.

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If someone wants to put in more time and effort to acquire the highest tier of gear, there should be content for that.

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I'm 100% fine with this. I wouldn't mind another top tier weapon that is over the rest of them that is a huge long quest, like a mythic weapon. You can create things that take time and effort w/o putting a 21-24 hour pop time on a monster.

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If someone wants to spend time hunting down the rarest of monsters, there should also be content for that.

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You can also make rare monsters w/o putting a 21-24 hour timer on them.

While you can pop them consecutively, how many hours are you averaging per creation of a pandemonium warden pop item?

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However, there should be content available for those who want to strive for the hardest, most time consuming content. That content should be of higher quality than the content you do casually because of the effort put in. It should be up to the player what they want to spend time doing. As I said Cream and im not kissing ass, you're cool people but I agree with Nateinn and you.

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I agree with the concept, I am just not a fan of HNMs. It's in my opinion a terrible design and I have no desire to ever see it back again. As I've explained, you can put in effort and time both to make things rare w/o the need for a 21-24 hour timed NM.

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Some people wanna compete. Some people want to hunt rare monsters. I approve of adding world spawns for these pplayers and the rewards for such content should be worthwhile to the people who want to spend vast amounts of time hunting them.

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Why are they playing ffxi if competing is what brings them most fun? PvP games, such as WoW would provide a much better sense of competition.

Some people may want to compete, but some people also want to get the 100% best things w/o lifting a finger. Not everyone is going to be pleased and I personally don't want either of the 2 to come into play.

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They also should be allowed great rewards that are on level with the time and effort needed to obtain them.

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Pretty much a broken record now, but I do agree with time/effort to reward value. I'm just saying 21-24 hour timers aren't required to implement any of that.


Also, I'm not sure if you have me confused with someone else, but I'm not Goku, lol

Main point is I don't mind making things tough and long for a good reward, I just don't see the sense in wanting to make a scenario where you have to prevent someone else from being able to do the same thing in the process.

(This isn't Pointed in the Direction of any particular Poster)

Really the Idea of 21-24hrs stems from the fact its mostly monopolization, allowing those people who have such a Superiority complex to maintain Monopoly over said Items from the 21-24hr HNM. This keeps them "Superior" by screwing everyone else who doesn't have the newest 2,000$ Bot.

That, And you can't Technically monopolize Questable items. So if you were to offer logic like you have just now, Cream_Soda, About Making Difficult Quests (in terms of Mythic) to obtain Rarer, More powerful Armor generally not accessable entirely by Casuals, They probably wouldn't go for it.

(I For one, Completely agree with you. I prefer Challenges that don't involve 21-24 hour Waiting periods.)

Lol i was implying to your always using DBZ charactersz in your sig/avatar on BG. That is you right? lol and Yeah I don't agree with monopolization and that is the case sometimes but it's not the only reason people do them. Some people genuinally enjoy the rush of it and dont cheat. I am one of those players. I really enjoyed Ixion, Sandworm, Khimera and Cerberus. I also enjoyed Salvage, Dynamis and many other instanced events.

I don't approve of botting and that became inevitable in the scene, so I agree with you, cheaters/monopolizers will do just that. At the same time, I think it was SEs fault for not implementing measure to prevent it. As someone has mentioned before, there are ways to prevent botting. You cannot bot shit like Ixion or Shikigami weapon for example. Although you can scan using various cheats, there are also ways to make it so inconvienant for a "deathspot" or "footprint" scanner, it would be pointless. I don't want people to think I'm some lame ass who wants to screw you outta the game.

I like the casual content. I can do abyssea with just my husband whenever I feel like and if we need people for something, we simply shout. Nothing is rly hard anymore or even time consuming. I also enjoy camping. I'm a long time player (is that u surreal from seedz ls? sup<3). I very much enjoyed the HNMs MINUS kings. I did not enjoy kings after the first year or two due to all the bs. I'm all for them never adding world spawns again, I can understand why others wouldnt like that but I'd be lying if I said I do not miss the camping and competiting aspect of some of the older non king HNMs.

I guess my point is, not everyone is a botting, cheating jerk who justs wants to beat some other guy just to be better. I enjoy both casual and elite content and would love to camp a rare monster occasionally that has some nice drops. For gil or otherwise. The competiting aspect isnt nessicary but I also enjoy and don't mind competition, it adds a rush. In world spawns that drop valuable gear, competition is invenitable most times. It's not any deeper than that. I can just do abyssea if I don't have time to do that or don't feel up to the challenge.

People who just wanna beat ppl to beat them is silly. People who just want to win so badly they cheat, well thats what ruins the game for everyone. I understand that.

I understand that not Everyone at HNM's bot. but there is nearly 100% Chance that SOMEONE at the HNM camp is botting, Which ruins it for everyone evolved rather they cheat or not. It takes just 1 bot to make the experience unenjoyable :|

I think that people who fought Pandy or AV (before it was obvious he was Immortal >.>!) for the first time, Even though he was a Forced-Pop NM, Probably felt a bigger rush killing/fighting them then they ever felt fighting Ixion or Khimaira.

So why not stick to those systems? You can still have a thrill getting to kill an NM if its a forced pop, It doesn't need to be "Theres 1 for the entire server, it spawns here, KNOCK YOURSELVE OUT LUL, oh and it only spawns every 1-4 days". It could be "Theres your Mega boss, but you must work up to him! fight his minions to reach him!" in a VNM/Abyssea Style. Really an Abyssean-Like system outside of Abyssea wouldn't be awful. Whats the biggest complaint about Abyssea is that its Too easy, Remove Atmas, Cruor, Etc from Abyssea, and it would be a perfect system.

Work for pops to pop lesser NM with okay drops > Collect Multiple KI > Pop Big guy and take him down. Its like the VNM system without the stupid Camera-Fetch Quest. Can you imagine the Difficulty Of Rani/Raja, even NMs like Turul if you didn't use Cruor buffs or Atmas?

The reason Abyssean NMs feel waterred down is because how much God-mode we feel in Abyssea. So i reiterate, a System like Abyssea (Kill lesser NM, get pops for Bigger NM, to get a pop for the biggest BA NM) outside of Abyssea i think would create the same level of thrill as it did for Pandemonium Warden, and Absolute Virtue. I bet back when we were 75, for PW at least, it was one of the hardest things to beat, and any LS who did beat it probably felt more pride in that achievement than any amount of Fafnir, Nidhogg, or Ixion, and PW Wasn't 21-24hr NM.

So its just an example that you can make an NM not driven by 21-24hr Bot-wars, thats Still a thrill to kill and fight, and still a rush. Where the challenge is the fight, Not the claim.

I personally would like more world spawn monsters that are unique like IXI/SW (loved the doomvoid stuff) that drop auction houseable gear or large amounts of gil. I don't think theres NMs in game that just drop good gil, thatd be kinda cool. I personally only partook in those camps for farming purposes.

If the gear is AHable, it shouldnt be hands down the best. It should be situatiually good or situationally the best to even out its value with other things that wont require a person to do it to have something almost as situationally good.

For example, if you wanted ebody u had to camp nidhogg, i dont think it should be that deep. Antares harness is great for farming and using, but theres other stuff thats almost as good or situationally better. (speaking of the time it was released).
I don't think the casual base should feel obligated to camp or do anything or else they wont have something really nice that isnt gimp compared to something that requires lots of time or camping.

And also, the issue of preventing botting or cheating seems like it could be easy but its niave to think that i suppose after all these years.


Someone suggested staggers. Someone suggsted it going red to random person in aggro range? And deathspot scanning can be trumped by simply having random repop timers for long and short periods of time spread accross vast amounts of zones. These could also depend on weather/season, etc. Just throwing ideas out there for how it can be prevented. People bot for convienance and advantage, it doesnt seem too hard to rly impliment measure to really limit convienance and advantage for cheaters.

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Originally Posted by Anewie

I personally would like more world spawn monsters that are unique like IXI/SW (loved the doomvoid stuff) that drop auction houseable gear or large amounts of gil. I don't think theres NMs in game that just drop good gil, thatd be kinda cool. I personally only partook in those camps for farming purposes.

If the gear is AHable, it shouldnt be hands down the best. It should be situatiually good or situationally the best to even out its value with other things that wont require a person to do it to have something almost as situationally good.

For example, if you wanted ebody u had to camp nidhogg, i dont think it should be that deep. Antares harness is great for farming and using, but theres other stuff thats almost as good or situationally better. (speaking of the time it was released).
I don't think the casual base should feel obligated to camp or do anything or else they wont have something really nice that isnt gimp compared to something that requires lots of time or camping.

And also, the issue of preventing botting or cheating seems like it could be easy but its niave to think that i suppose after all these years.


Someone suggested staggers. Someone suggsted it going red to random person in aggro range? And deathspot scanning can be trumped by simply having random repop timers for long and short periods of time spread accross vast amounts of zones. These could also depend on weather/season, etc. Just throwing ideas out there for how it can be prevented. People bot for convienance and advantage, it doesnt seem too hard to rly impliment measure to really limit convienance and advantage for cheaters.

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I completely agree there are ways to make Roaming 21-24HR Nm unbottable, my argument is that 21-24hr NMs as a System is flawed and outdated. The only thing is good for is promoting Monopolization of select few HNM Linkshells.

If Ixion was a Forced Pop from a ??? based on off of some Campaign-related Quest line to defeat NMs to get his pop, he would be just as thrilling and fun to fight (Cause he is unique, "Running people over", etc, His fighting style is unique too. Truthfully I've only tanked him once Lol..... So i dont have vast Knowledge, but it was a fun fight.)

I'm just with tiger on this one, I don't want to go back to the Dark Ages of botted NMs and 2-3 Linkshell Monopolizing entire aspects of Endgame (in this case, Land-kings). Systems like VNMs, ZNM, Abyssean-pop system (Ignoring Atma/Cruor) were all steps in the right direction. They created a sense of progression and fighting NMs like Yilbegan, etc, was just as exciting as fighting Ixion/SW/Nid, to me anyway... Its just i felt i had more ability to kill/fight VNM/ZNMs.

It felt like i had the Freedom to do it, I didn't have to wait for a spawn window, I could go out and fight them if we decided too. Build up the pop, Work to fight it, and then finally get to it and defeat it.

I just think if people really liked the thrill of HNMs, not just for monopolization or controlling the inflow of gear, they could Enjoy an HNM even if its spawn methods were similar to VNM/ZNM. Those who Insist on 21-24hr HNMs... the motive is clear. They want the control back.

Even with cruor buffs and atmas Abyssea is still fairly challenging. The difference is they didn't really scale HNM hp like they did back in older content. The fights are designed to be faster and in that way they actually are easier. 200k Brews are the one thing that really made the content easy. If not for that certain HNMs are still really tough if not handled carefully. I think people are really over selling how hard content was pre-abyssea. T3 Einherjar was probably the hardest thing in the game before the level increase and people were beating that very regularly with smaller groups. Every single worth while free spawn NM was being easily killed by like 6-8 people. Abyssea reduced the average group killing stuff? Sort of but apart from mass adds like Einherjar and PW you never needed a lot of people (well apart from the odd gimmick like Odin.)

PW/AV weren't as much hard as they were broken content. They were just really gimmicky for the most part. Our group was the first to take down PW on our server and it wasn't a push over but after beating it we saw how it would be fairly easy to beat consistently. It was just more or less reliant on you having an army of people to sac. Zerging AV was probably one of the hardest things to do in the game but really it was a cheese tactic to take down something that couldn't be killed.

Again though challenging content is a lot of fun but I want to be able to set up times where my friends and I can access the content without being blocked by other people. If the content is challenging because it takes like 100 hrs to complete with a decent size group then so be it. People deserve to be able to work at their own pace but if they're putting in the same amount of work over a longer period then they deserve the same pay off in the end. Also the flip side to this is no one should be able to walk up to Nidhogg kill it once and get an e.body like in the past that's not a challenge.

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Originally Posted by Orson

Even with cruor buffs and atmas Abyssea is still fairly challenging. The difference is they didn't really scale HNM hp like they did back in older content. The fights are designed to be faster and in that way they actually are easier. 200k Brews are the one thing that really made the content easy. If not for that certain HNMs are still really tough if not handled carefully. I think people are really over selling how hard content was pre-abyssea. T3 Einherjar was probably the hardest thing in the game before the level increase and people were beating that very regularly with smaller groups. Every single worth while free spawn NM was being easily killed by like 6-8 people. Abyssea reduced the average group killing stuff? Sort of but apart from mass adds like Einherjar and PW you never needed a lot of people (well apart from the odd gimmick like Odin.)

PW/AV weren't as much hard as they were broken content. They were just really gimmicky for the most part. Our group was the first to take down PW on our server and it wasn't a push over but after beating it we saw how it would be fairly easy to beat consistently. It was just more or less reliant on you having an army of people to sac. Zerging AV was probably one of the hardest things to do in the game but really it was a cheese tactic to take down something that couldn't be killed.

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Incase this is in my direction at all, I never claimed Pre-abyssea was hard. in fact, It was easy as heck lol.

I was only mentioning Abyssea Content at its proper level was easier than Non-Abyssean Content at 75, and that I think its possible to recreate the thrill of taking down/fighting an HNM for the first time, Without attaching a 21-24hr tag to it :)

No, more or less I'm just talking generally. A lot of people have rose colored glasses in regard to back when content was hard. Which really is wasn't very hard. I remember killing DI with like 6 people after watching a group of 15ish people wipe time and time again. I've seen just as large of groups wipe to Tunga. The challenge on most of the NMs back then was learning their routines. Same thing in abyssea really but party dynamics have also changed slightly because of the emphasis on procing weaknesses.

Anewie is better at explaining it then i am lol, ill admit part of me likes the feeling of being able to claim almost every pop but i never did. We got a good 85+% of SW/DI claims cause the monet we made off them made us all $. Alot of ppl in my LS had or were close to relics because of this. Things like kings i camped when they were popular i know its bs watching ghe same group bot every HQ and brag when you know they duck skill wise. But when we claimed it was worth watching them get so mad over it just for the laughs. SW/DI was fun bc ppl were so mad we claimed they would just make fools of themselfs providing more lols. And these ppl showed up with out powder boots or jobs that could hold SW/DI long enough for their tank to get there. Not to mention the 3 A.M. Tiamats. By someones logic why should anyone care what i wanna do with my time? We all know world spawns will be camped to a point unless its a 3-5 day pop over several zones.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

Anewie is better at explaining it then i am lol, ill admit part of me likes the feeling of being able to claim almost every pop but i never did. We got a good 85+% of SW/DI claims cause the monet we made off them made us all $. Alot of ppl in my LS had or were close to relics because of this. Things like kings i camped when they were popular i know its bs watching ghe same group bot every HQ and brag when you know they duck skill wise. But when we claimed it was worth watching them get so mad over it just for the laughs. SW/DI was fun bc ppl were so mad we claimed they would just make fools of themselfs providing more lols. And these ppl showed up with out powder boots or jobs that could hold SW/DI long enough for their tank to get there. Not to mention the 3 A.M. Tiamats. By someones logic why should anyone care what i wanna do with my time? We all know world spawns will be camped to a point unless its a 3-5 day pop over several zones.

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I understand the rest of your post :) I just wanna comment on this one thing.

If 21-24hr/3-5day HNMs were introduced and had the best gear, We'd be FORCED to care about what you do with your time, because if anyone ever wanted to get gear for their job they'd be forced to camp those NMs. and a lot of us would be forced to bot or join a botting shell if we ever wanted to claim/kill. and some of us care about our characters enough to not Cheat/bot. :|

Also about the World spawns, Its true it will be camped no matter what, Which is the exact reason we don't want them back :|. With VNM/ZNM/Abyssean type systems, you didn't have to wait 21-24hrs, Forcing you to return the next day and the next day, Eventually working your entire play-schedule around the same 4-5 Different HNM windows.

I think a lot of people did leave because the game felt "Too much like a job" to them. Logging on, Going to multiple Scheduled HNM camps to have a chance to claim, and finishing the day when the windows were over. it felt like a chore to get the armor. I do not imply everyone felt this way, But its was as much a problem to them as not having them is for you. its a double-edged sword. Make some happy and make some sad.

So its really hard to find a fair balance. I would prefer a ZNM/VNM type system where You can pop an NM when you feel like going to fight it. Even if it required a long build up like getting to PW, just being able to fight it without having ToD would be nice.

but I think you at least understand that too :)

I liked it though, gear/relics had more sentimental value then. Since 1500 other ppl weren't decked out to the max.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

I liked it though, gear/relics had more sentimental value then. Since 1500 other ppl weren't decked out to the max.

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Well, The reason people are "Decked out to the max now" isn't because the NMs aren't 21-24/hr, its because Abyssea has made it incredibly easy to gear. Especially because Atma/Cruor buffs, and Triggering System. I enjoy those things about Abyssea, But I admit they make it easy.

Okay, I'll use this as the Best example. Look at Pandemonium Warden. He wasn't a 21-24 hour was he? He was a Pop just like Abyssea. (Kill NM to get pop For another NM to get pop for another NM to pop the Big NM), Yet i bet any LS who has killed him at the level 75 Value that as their highest Achievement, above ANY 21-24Hr NM.

My Point is, You can make Exclusive, Challenging, Epic Fights without needing 21-24hr Tag on it. You can still create NMs/HNMs that give you the feeling of Exclusive Sentimental accomplishments, Without resorting to Free-Spawning NMs that, Rather we like it or not, Will always invite Botters, making it unenjoyable, or less fair, For those who do not use bots.

Just make the Build to the NM challenging like Pandemonium Warden, and the entire ZNM System. It gives everyone the Opportunity to participate, But still gives a strong challenge to where the gear won't be floating around Everywhere.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

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Forcing you to return the next day and the next day, Eventually working your entire play-schedule around the same 4-5 Different HNM windows.

I think a lot of people did leave because the game felt "Too much like a job" to them. Logging on, Going to multiple Scheduled HNM camps to have a chance to claim, and finishing the day when the windows were over. it felt like a chore to get the armor. I do not imply everyone felt this way, But its was as much a problem to them as not having them is for you. its a double-edged sword. Make some happy and make some sad.

So its really hard to find a fair balance. I would prefer a ZNM/VNM type system where You can pop an NM when you feel like going to fight it. Even if it required a long build up like getting to PW, just being able to fight it without having ToD would be nice.

but I think you at least understand that too :)

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This. When I got into "end game" years ago the thrill of claiming fafnir and co. wore off very quickly and the experience became agonizing. It actually got to the point where I was logging out before windows so I didn't have to put up with it. When the tail end of CoP rolled out with limbus and new dynamis zones I felt like playing again. It only got better when ToAU came out and introduced daily content. It's a shame development never really refined and further explored that content though.

I'll take easy Abyssea gear where everyone can get it too over salvage and HNM gear where it's all down to chance. Take Salvage for instance, took me 2 years to finish morrigan body doing it twice a week(killing all 5 rats), friend got it on his first run. Screw going back to that system.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

I'll take easy Abyssea gear where everyone can get it too over salvage and HNM gear where it's all down to chance. Take Salvage for instance, took me 2 years to finish morrigan body doing it twice a week(killing all 5 rats), friend got it on his first run. Screw going back to that system.

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Oh boy, I certainly wasn't suggesting the same drop rates on these new systems... Only that its possible to create a rewarding, Exclusive experience without the need for 21-24 hour windows.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Runespider

I'll take easy Abyssea gear where everyone can get it too over salvage and HNM gear where it's all down to chance. Take Salvage for instance, took me 2 years to finish morrigan body doing it twice a week(killing all 5 rats), friend got it on his first run. Screw going back to that system.

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HNMs aside. Im sure cream, Orison and surreal will agree, the game desperetely needs to move outside abyssea. Its great content for the casual player but i think it might be hurting the game a bit. It's so freakin easy and just get down right boring. Its quit the opposite of the overhaul you had to put in for salvage,dynamis or world spawns. I totally agree with you about the salvage thing, those drop rates were horrid, but salvage was fun! I loved it, so i didn't mind it. It did piss me off shit never dropped though.

I'm with the crowd the people that thing Abyssea being highest tier of endgame needs to end. Its wonderful system but its too easy and casual to enjoy long term imo. I am so bored of it but I love the gear and accessability of it! Lol. But, its boring and easy as hell.

It also discourages team work via shells imo. Event linkshells are lol now. Even Abyssea LS' are not at all nessicary. You can do anything pretty much via shout. Empryean weapon upgrade is probably the hardest goal via abysea and you can totally do an entire empyrean weapon just by shouting. Get your own pops, then shout. U can even shout for people to help get the pops.

I would like to see more higher tier content that exclusive to linkshells and groups. Not just stuff you shout to do with randoms. I'd also like to see a new system like salvage/nyzul. That system was very cool!

I don't want to come off as someone whos saying the devs should force harder content on everyone, but there really should be content for multiple player types. Why is that so hard or bad? I'll still do abys occasionally no matter what the future content of ffxi but I've been playing less and less due to the direction the game is going.

I had fun getting every job I wanted 90 and capped merits. Also having the best gear atm via af3 and me and my husba dpretty much duo + mule + shout for his ochain. Everyone should have that freedom to do that, its casual. But options would be nice ; ;. variety of elite and casual content spanning across instanced to world events.


Very happy about the upcoming changes though! However, eventually we will be at 99 and the changes and updates to the game will eventually have to be very minimal. I would be very dissapointed if there wasnt some form of return of elite content available to those who choose to spend their time on it.

My issue with the game is before, there was so much to do. Now, you get a sense of being very bored after awhile. All most of us do is abyssea, lets keep it real. Very repetitive, very casual and not challenging or competitive enough.

Even with new battle field additions, if its just too casual, easy and doesnt require much thought, skill, competition all it will become is just another easy thoughtless event. Ill admit, Dyna, salvage and limbus could have been a pain and they were also repetitive. Those events at 75 though were much more challenging and thought provoking than anything now. They were imo, better events. I enjoyed them much longer.

As for HNMs, idc if theyre world spawn or instanced really. It would be nice to have a bundle of both but not everyone can play as much as I can and i respect that. They shouldnt be forced to camp shit against people with large amounts of play time for gear they want. Plus people can cheat and monopolize. At same time though, I think that can be managed VIA Square enix. They could make like they did with kings and make an alternate method that is casual so people who enjoy competiting and campind world spawns can.

Im excited about voidwatch!

I just hope the new stuff is hard but not a body tossing thing like PW.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

I just hope the new stuff is hard but not a body tossing thing like PW.

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For once I agree with you 100%

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Originally Posted by Natenn

I liked it though, gear/relics had more sentimental value then. Since 1500 other ppl weren't decked out to the max.

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Something wrong with other people having good gear?

If an MMO is truly fun, you would still play it even after having everything you need.

Yea there is something wrong with it, whats the point in everyone having the exact same things? MMO like that are dull, im asking for diversity here, not everyone to be uniformed.