New weapons with higher base damage then relics

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Originally Posted by Concerned4FFxi

So we are only a few hundred shy of 20,000 views

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I can't speak for the other 19,999, but I'm here mostly for the entertainment value.

For my part, i'm glad that the SCH mythic is shit. I really dont want to have to do salvage and nyzul anyway.

I keep my Nuke set in pretty good shape, but I can't remember the last time i was ever asked to nuke anything. Making a mythic just to continue to be ignored isnt my idea of fun.

Whelp I did not realize this thread was at such a high view rate. Also 33 pages of comments is nothing to snub at. So now I am stuck wondering why SE is ignoring this topic?

It's what they do. ^^

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...yJustDidntCare

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Originally Posted by Richwood

Whelp I did not realize this thread was at such a high view rate. Also 33 pages of comments is nothing to snub at. So now I am stuck wondering why SE is ignoring this topic?

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Might have something to do with the OP's Like count of 11 (at the time of me posting)... such a high view rate and reply amount yet only 11 likes, quite telling about how much crying over certain relics/emps/mythics being out damaged by theses new "common" weapons is really going on.

If I were SE, I'd ignore it, because no matter what they do with RME not everyone is going to be happy.

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Originally Posted by Teraniku

If I were SE, I'd ignore it, because no matter what they do with RME not everyone is going to be happy.

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Because it's better that no one is happy than someone?

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Originally Posted by Richwood

Whelp I did not realize this thread was at such a high view rate. Also 33 pages of comments is nothing to snub at. So now I am stuck wondering why SE is ignoring this topic?

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Number of pages has never been a metric by which they decide whether or not to respond.

anyway... is the hth weapon worth giving up victory smite for?

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Originally Posted by Zagen

Might have something to do with the OP's Like count of 11 (at the time of me posting)... such a high view rate and reply amount yet only 11 likes, quite telling about how much crying over certain relics/emps/mythics being out damaged by theses new "common" weapons is really going on.

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NA forum threads rarely have many likes even if the subject is immensely popular (compare to JP forum where unpopular posts on random pages will have 20+ likes)

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Originally Posted by Asymptotic

NA forum threads rarely have many likes even if the subject is immensely popular (compare to JP forum where unpopular posts on random pages will have 20+ likes)

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Yeah I guess so... Taking a look around the General Forums it seems NA as a community is more concerned with enmity issues, paid race changes, folded arm emotes, and drop issues from Wildskeeper Reives.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Number of pages has never been a metric by which they decide whether or not to respond.

anyway... is the hth weapon worth giving up victory smite for?

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Outside of abyssea the Verethragna already loses to Spharai with Shijin Spiral, its much more constant then Victory Smite. VS greatly relies on Impetus or crit buffs like in abyssea to be good. VS is pretty inconstant because of its crit modifier. We are pretty much past the days of abyssea.

The new monk weapon Tlalpoloani drops from one of the Wildskeeper Reives NMs Achuka. Now then it costs 100k Bayld to enter, and you have to actually get the drop.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Outside of abyssea the Verethragna already loses to Spharai with Shijin Spiral, its much more constant then Victory Smite. VS greatly relies on Impetus or crit buffs like in abyssea to be good. VS is pretty inconstant because of its crit modifier. We are pretty much past the days of abyssea.

The new monk weapon Tlalpoloani drops from one of the Wildskeeper Reives NMs Achuka. Now then it costs 100k Bayld to enter, and you have to actually get the drop.

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PUP can't use Spharai. This is specifically directed towards PUP.

For me the main attraction of VS in the first place was being able to do solo light, both with the automaton and by using tactical switch. (Buuuuuuut.... I only have the WoE weapon as I was never able to get vereth). For me at least, VS was better than pummel with the same weapon, as you didn't need as many hits and therefore are more likely to land them all. (Edit: even the lv99 WoE weapon is barely more than half the base damage of the reieve weapon- glad I wasted so much time on that...)

Ignoring verethregana, I'm really not too sure what to go for. The base damage on this reieve weapon is more than double what I have now, but it may be unrealistic to obtain. I guess you're right though, VS is really only dominant in abyssea. Is there somethinng markedly better than revenant fists +2 other than verethregana that I can find without breaking my back?

Edit: The skirmish weapon, at least before augmentation, isn't all that much better. It seems what I was talking about was this:

http://i47.tinypic.com/2ee8lmu.png which would seem to blow every other hth weapon in the game for either job out of the water. But this doesn't seem to be the skirmish weapon.

Bayld is easy to get and everyone gets R / EX gear as long as you do stuff consistently during the Reive. I'm not even sure you have to actually contribute to damaging the Naakual. I WS'd Tchakka once and got a Macoquetza (I spent the rest of the time killing adds and made back 30k of the 100k entry fee from evaluations including the 4k evaluation at the end and the 1k I made mysteriously while dead)

Naakual gear is extremely easy to get (and will just get easier since they're lowering the cost of entry next week if you've bothered to keep your coalition ranks up)


(The Skirmish weapon easily beats the Naakual H2H even with mediocre augments)

No there are no gimp weapons that can beat vere, is that surprising ? Your argument about being able to solo light with your puppet is IMO wrong. I got level 99 Kenkonken recently and parsed myself on a reive (attacking a wall, hasted). The pet was doing 1% of the total damage, I was doing 46% and a vere monk was doing 53% (dualboxed and wearing pdt gear). So basically there is no way you can close or open light with your pet often enough to justify vere over other weapons. Skirmish weapons are fairly easy to obtain and even an average augment on a +1 ghasty stone+ninza are going to beat the DPS of vere and all other pup weapons.

Stringing plummel is not that nice. The only realistic gear pup should be wearing during SP is attack because the mods are garbage. With shijin you will have access to to 100% dex mod, so in theory at least it is much easier to attune.

Skirmish weapon are fairly easy to obtain compared to empy and relics too. You have 10% chance to get a ninza per run and a run will cost you maybe 2M since you'll split the cost between 6 members. By the time you obtain it you will likely get several ghasty+1 stones too. Tlalpoloani atm is about on par with +1 stone augments so I would not suggest aiming for it.

Oh and me and mdk think that the nakkual fights are meant to be aimed for casual players, because the weapons are basically soloable, all you need is spam reives to get your bayld. Beside they are great but not as great as skirmish wpns. At one point I though that they would be augmentable but with the introduction of delve I don't think so. They are basically the cruor gear of SOA.

Got a pair of ninza last night on my 9th skirmish run, augmented it with a +1 stone to DMG 59 Delay 51. Higher DMG and lower delay than my 99 spharai. Working on calculations right now to see which I should use for which events/etc.

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No there are no gimp weapons that can beat vere, is that surprising ?

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I'm not specifically looking to beat verethregana- Only to beat +2 or +3 rev fists.

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Skirmish weapon are fairly easy to obtain compared to empy and relics too. You have 10% chance to get a ninza per run and a run will cost you maybe 2M since you'll split the cost between 6 members. By the time you obtain it you will likely get several ghasty+1 stones too. Tlalpoloani atm is about on par with +1 stone augments so I would not suggest aiming for it.

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So wait, the ghastly stone augments can bring up the DMG on the skirmish weapons *that* much? to be "on par" the augments would have to be pretty crazy.

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The pet was doing 1% of the total damage, I was doing 46% and a vere monk was doing 53% (dualboxed and wearing pdt gear). So basically there is no way you can close or open light with your pet often enough to justify vere over other weapons.

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Any frame/head other than soulsoother or harlequin should be able to do more than 1% of the damage against you.

(@ above: "9th skirmish run?" I've not once ever seen one of those simulacrum parts drop, nor do i even know anyone else who has...)

They can, I have a DMG 151 GTK that outperforms 99 masamune and amano in pure #'s, and a 59 DMG knuckles that out perform 99 Spharai. These are both with just +1 stone augments.

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Originally Posted by Toioiz

They can, I have a DMG 151 GTK that outperforms 99 masamune and amano in pure #'s, and a 59 DMG knuckles that out perform 99 Spharai. These are both with just +1 stone augments.

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Skirmish GKT doesn't touch Masa99 or Amano99.

The H2H weapons are beastly however.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Stringing plummel is not that nice. The only realistic gear pup should be wearing during SP is attack because the mods are garbage. With shijin you will have access to to 100% dex mod, so in theory at least it is much easier to attune.
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http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/295972
Fortunately! Pretty much all of the best WS gear PUP gets for Stringing Pummel is full of Attack!
Outside of Matanca Harness, it's pretty reasonable to obtain too.

With an appropriate set, SP will perform 1.5-2x that of Shijin Spiral (but Shijin is much easier to maximize as you said)

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Originally Posted by Taint2

Skirmish GKT doesn't touch Masa99 or Amano99.

The H2H weapons are beastly however.

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SAM DPS spreadsheet disagrees with you. But I'm willing to see the math behind this statement.

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Originally Posted by Toioiz

Got a pair of ninza last night on my 9th skirmish run, augmented it with a +1 stone to DMG 59 Delay 51. Higher DMG and lower delay than my 99 spharai. Working on calculations right now to see which I should use for which events/etc.

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ninzas with DMG 52 should be enough to beat spharai, ninzas with DMG65 to beat wildskieper reive h2h.

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Originally Posted by Toioiz

SAM DPS spreadsheet disagrees with you. But I'm willing to see the math behind this statement.

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Any other stats on the GKT or just DMG+25?


You are probably assuming Shoha is SAMs best WS....lol.



To better explain: Fudo,Kaiten,Namas are all superior to Shoha unless attack is starved or you are rocking Koga. If attack is low enough that Shoha is the best WS then the other attributes of Masa/Amano will also come into play. 151 damage 450 delay GKT is coming in a solid 5th best SAM weapon.

I'm not, I as calculating with Gekko, Shoha, Fudo(Masa), and Kaitien(Amano). DMG +25 STR +1 DEX +6.

It should also be said, that other weapons are doing much better WS dmg overall with shoha (Exp. TP bonus weapons), but the overall DPS is what matters, I'm assuming SoA mobs, VT non-capped attack.

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Originally Posted by Asymptotic

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/295972
Fortunately! Pretty much all of the best WS gear PUP gets for Stringing Pummel is full of Attack!
Outside of Matanca Harness, it's pretty reasonable to obtain too.

With an appropriate set, SP will perform 1.5-2x that of Shijin Spiral (but Shijin is much easier to maximize as you said)

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Good stuff to know.

In buffed situations the difference is more like 20%. But yeah, Stringing Pummel with 99 Kenkonken is better than Shijin Spiral.

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Originally Posted by Toioiz

non-capped attack.

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Thats when you use Shoha...but name an event where a R/E user would only use Shoha? The only one I can think of Odin2 where I use Shoha 90% of the time. There are a few Legion mobs I use Shoha on as well but I also use Mura for them. (Naraka,Rex etc)


Bukhis (101lvl mob)

Code:

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GK        GK
Tachi: Shoha        Tachi: Kaiten
0%        24%
0        0
210        210
0        0
       
Set 1        Set 2
540        596
360.291        409.409
       
3.25        3.32
3153        3553
       
4910        5532
413        410
       
714.080        809.625

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Qilin 110

Code:

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GK        GK
Tachi: Shoha        Tachi: Kaiten
0%        24%
0        0
210        210
0        0
       
Set 1        Set 2
426        482
284.084        330.656
       
3.25        3.32
2493        2810
       
3879        4408
413        410
       
564.057        645.075

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Don't get me wrong its a good GKT, but its not competeing with the 99 REM class for SAM. I'm sure there is a situation that exist where it pulls ahead but for the other 99% of the game its falling behind.

I would be interested to know the gearsets/options you used to get those numbers, they are *way* different than the results I'm getting from my gearsets on any mobs.

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Originally Posted by Toioiz

I would be interested to know the gearsets/options you used to get those numbers, they are *way* different than the results I'm getting from my gearsets on any mobs.

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Code:

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Gear
Skirmish GKT
Duplus
Hagneia Stone
Usukane +1
Ganesha
Brutal
Unkai
Unkai +2
Tenryu +1 Aug
Rajas
Tyrant
Misuuchi
Phos +1
Unkai +2
Usukane +1






Gear
Skirmish GKT
Duplus
Thew Bomblet
Mekira-oto +1
Gorget
Brutal
Vulcan
Phorcys
Phorcys
Strigoi
Pyrosoul
Unkai
Ele.Belt
Tenryu +1 Aug
Omodaka

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5hits both weapons (450 delay can lose 4stp in TP phase but you are looking at incredibly small gains if any)

You haven't posted a thing except "thats not what I'm getting." Post your numbers....

Wow, so yeah not using expensive gear on mine, commonly available stuff, enough to get a 5hit but not +1 gear.

Code:

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Weapon Type        GK        GK
Weaponskill        Tachi: Shoha        Tachi: Fudo
ODD Rate        0%        24%
Mythic AM2        0        0
AM2 TP        210        210
Mythic AM3        0        0
               
Results        Set 1        Set 2
Melee damage per round        258        293
Melee DPS        65.464        78.794
               
Rounds/WS        4.06        4.44
WS Dmg        1976        1742
               
Total Cycle Damage        3346        3331
Total Cycle Time        1082        1109
               
Total DPS        185.608        180.154

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This grindy, random loot and augment crap that is SoA reminds me of diablo and i'm not interested.

So is SE ever going to comment on R/M/E 's getting an upgrade or are they going to just try and bleed everyone a few more subscription cycles before giving us false hope?
I'm not really in the mood to bayld grind and die of boredom or wait much longer before unsubscribing until they make a statement on this.

I never thought i'd say this, but maybe Tanaka leaving was bad for ffxi, these new weapons and stupid imbalance of time investment vs loot reward never would have happened under his watch.

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Originally Posted by Toioiz

Wow, so yeah not using expensive gear on mine, commonly available stuff, enough to get a 5hit but not +1 gear.

Code:

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Weapon Type        GK        GK
Weaponskill        Tachi: Shoha        Tachi: Fudo
ODD Rate        0%        24%
Mythic AM2        0        0
AM2 TP        210        210
Mythic AM3        0        0
               
Results        Set 1        Set 2
Melee damage per round        258        293
Melee DPS        65.464        78.794
               
Rounds/WS        4.06        4.44
WS Dmg        1976        1742
               
Total Cycle Damage        3346        3331
Total Cycle Time        1082        1109
               
Total DPS        185.608        180.154

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What is the 24% for ? The empy ODD should be 30 or 50%, the relic would be 18%. Anyway I'm using the same-ish gear as Taint2 using anormal VT mobs from adoulin (motenten included chapulis) :

The JP wiki doesn't list any augment on the GK for +2 stone, it says +24 for a +1 stone so I'll assume it's D+30 STR+5 dex+5 (as those stats are found on the +1 stones)

Hasso/haste/marchx2/minuetx2/ no dia and no berserk

relic GK : 670 DPS
Shichishito : 719 DPS


Hasso/haste/marchx2/no minuet / no dia and no berserk

relic GK : 567 DPS
Shichishito : 675 DPS

Hasso/haste/no marches /no minuet / no dia and no berserk

relic GK : 285 DPS
Shichishito : 337 DPS

Hasso/haste/marches x2 /minuet x 2 / dia II / berserk

relic GK : 791 DPS
Shichishito : 741 DPS

Except when you bring your personnal DDB bard or COR it seems better, besides, we have no clue what the job specific enhancement on the +2 stones are, if any (mnk has counter+).

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Any frame/head other than soulsoother or harlequin should be able to do more than 1% of the damage against you.

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not when the master get ghorndabla99s buffs. he can increase pet dps but he loose a lot more master dps on ja delay

I did an ADL popset farming run yesterday on PUP ( 24 NMs plus 6 Dynamis lords). With KKK I could pop 3x wind maneuver between NMs without overloading so the pet had max haste. We had marchx2 minuetx2 boost dex haste and dia2

pimp MNK1 with vere afterglow : 28.44%
dual boxed mnk with vere : 24.67%
dual boxed mnk with vere : 21.52%
pup master KKK99 AM1 : 24.52%
puppet : 0.49%

the total damage of the pet was less than 4 stringing pummel and I did 65 of them (averaging about the same as the vere monks). The pet was the melee frame and totalised 7k damage in 2 hours. The blm pet would not have had time to land more than 1 nuke per NM and TBH it would probably be better. The RNG pet has always sucked so it would have been worst most likely.

Dynamis lords have about 80K HP and lesser NMs have about 40k HP.

What amazes me is that people think "Once best, always best".

This never happens in MMO's, other than when they die. Once upon a time, relics were "best". Then they got upgrades, and those were "best". New expansions come along. "Best" always moves forward.

Otherwise, we'd all still be fighting over who gets Ridill and hiring hit teams to take out whoever was in line next for that Joyeuse spawn, while demanding our local senator get the RMT facility where they're claimbotting Fafnir blown up with a drone strike.

You have two choices. Stagnation or the inevitable improvement that makes your prior gear no longer relevant over time.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

I did an ADL popset farming run yesterday on PUP ( 24 NMs plus 6 Dynamis lords). With KKK I could pop 3x wind maneuver between NMs without overloading so the pet had max haste. We had marchx2 minuetx2 boost dex haste and dia2

pimp MNK1 with vere afterglow : 28.44%
dual boxed mnk with vere : 24.67%
dual boxed mnk with vere : 21.52%
pup master KKK99 AM1 : 24.52%
puppet : 0.49%

the total damage of the pet was less than 4 stringing pummel and I did 65 of them (averaging about the same as the vere monks). The pet was the melee frame and totalised 7k damage in 2 hours. The blm pet would not have had time to land more than 1 nuke per NM and TBH it would probably be better. The RNG pet has always sucked so it would have been worst most likely.

Dynamis lords have about 80K HP and lesser NMs have about 40k HP.

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Don't do this.

You know exactly what I'm talking about and why its wrong. Could just as easily called it "Ken"...

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Originally Posted by Rustic

What amazes me is that people think "Once best, always best".

This never happens in MMO's, other than when they die. Once upon a time, relics were "best". Then they got upgrades, and those were "best". New expansions come along. "Best" always moves forward.

Otherwise, we'd all still be fighting over who gets Ridill and hiring hit teams to take out whoever was in line next for that Joyeuse spawn, while demanding our local senator get the RMT facility where they're claimbotting Fafnir blown up with a drone strike.

You have two choices. Stagnation or the inevitable improvement that makes your prior gear no longer relevant over time.

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That's why I kept saying, but apparently FFXI is different for some unknown reason.

AM3 is impossible to maintain

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Originally Posted by Horadrim

Don't do this.

You know exactly what I'm talking about and why its wrong. Could just as easily called it "Ken"...

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You know very well what it is meant to mean, context is everything. If you're getting offended over that you really need to lighten up and not allow yourself to be offended by things that you already know aren't meant in that context.

and "Ken" could just as easily mean a person named Ken-- it's not any less ambigous.