The Mysteries of Vana 'Diel

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Originally Posted by Jandel

Were there settlement of other races before the empire was founded?

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If you can trust what some of the Mamool Ja imply, they were the first in the area by a long shot. I know that the Lamia exist because of the empire and that the trolls came into the area around the same time or later, though.

As for the five races, I'm not sure. There doesn't seem to be anywhere near the amount of casual racist between the five races in Aht Urghan that exists in the Western areas, so it's not mentioned often. I guess that's because they can all get together and be overtly racist towards Qiqirn.

Septimus will probably come in and prove me at least half-wrong about everything except the racism. That bro's memory is super-human.

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Originally Posted by Jandel

Adding questions...

Is the empire of Aht Urghan founded by hume?

It's seems so (beeing the empress a hume) so how the people spread in those lands?

Were there settlement of other races before the empire was founded?

When was founded? XD

P.s. Are out there quest as beautiful as the five serpent generals' quest? (Not storyline/mission quest)

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I don't know if there is a definitive answer to who founded the empire and when, but I would imagine that it would have been Humes. They seem to pass down the title of Emperor or Empress along a family line, the family now is Hume, and Hume is the most populace race in Vana'diel.

I am not sure if it was there first or not, but the Kingdom of Ephramad was in the area a long, long time ago. As for when it was founded, the answer is probably a good clip over 884 years ago, that was the last Ragnarok, when Emperor Alzadaal's Alexander fought with Odin and the start of the Crystal Era. (Now if it was one continuous line or not, that is a different question.) As for how people spread to those lands? Just like the real world, people are pretty much everywhere. It is possible that the Empire was motivated by the Olduum ruins in their search for technology to create a vessel for Alexander.

Outside of missions, I think that the Adventuring Fellow quests are close contenders to the Serpent General quests in terms of story quality, memorability, and visual excellence. I have a very strong connection to my Adventuring Fellows because those quests were so well written.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

If you can trust what some of the Mamool Ja imply, they were the first in the area by a long shot. I know that the Lamia exist because of the empire and that the trolls came into the area around the same time or later, though.

As for the five races, I'm not sure. There doesn't seem to be anywhere near the amount of casual racist between the five races in Aht Urghan that exists in the Western areas, so it's not mentioned often. I guess that's because they can all get together and be overtly racist towards Qiqirn.

Septimus will probably come in and prove me at least half-wrong about everything except the racism. That bro's memory is super-human.

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The Mammol Ja can claim that they were there in the area before the Empire all they want, but Olduum certainly predates them. It predates pretty much everything. (We never really got a satisfying answer to what it was.) But if they want to claim "Our ancestors were here first", the races of Altana have them beat for sure.

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Originally Posted by Septimus

The Mammol Ja can claim that they were there in the area before the Empire all they want, but Olduum certainly predates them. It predates pretty much everything. (We never really got a satisfying answer to what it was.) But if they want to claim "Our ancestors were here first", the races of Altana have them beat for sure.

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From what I recall, they mention the empire and "those darn smoothskins in our backyard!" as if the two are one and the same so I would suspect they haven't been there long enough to know Olduum existed. That, and it seems like a technological society capable of controlling lightning would pretty much decimate an overly aggressive lizard society capable of controlling...less intelligent and somewhat less bipedal lizards.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

From what I recall, they mention the empire and "those darn smoothskins in our backyard!" as if the two are one and the same so I would suspect they haven't been there long enough to know Olduum existed. That, and it seems like a technological society capable of controlling lightning would pretty much decimate an overly aggressive lizard society capable of controlling...less intelligent and somewhat less bipedal lizards.

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From what Doctor Shantotto said, the Olduum ruins in the Aydeewa Subterrane seem to pre-date the Horutoto Ruins. Meaning that they are from the Zilart era or earlier. Sadly, this was never expanded upon.

But like I said, if they Mammol Ja are trying a "we were here first" argument, the Humes can retort with a "well our predecessors (the Zilart) already licked it so it is ours". Beastmen didn't happen until after the Meltdown, the races of Altana evolved from the Zilart who existed before the Meltdown, so basically we already licked it. No takesy-backsies.

Here's a mystery: How does Mayakov lisp a silent S?

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Originally Posted by Septimus

But like I said, if they Mammol Ja are trying a "we were here first" argument, the Humes can retort with a "well our predecessors (the Zilart) already licked it so it is ours". Beastmen didn't happen until after the Meltdown, the races of Altana evolved from the Zilart who existed before the Meltdown, so basically we already licked it. No takesy-backsies.

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Your explanations always give me amazing mental pictures. This is also totally true, especially considering there didn't seem to be any Zilart/Kuluu and later Zilart/Kuluu/five races tensions in that region that the Western lands have experienced.

Although I'd love more information on the warfare between nations in that region, since it's apparently as common as breakfast and bowel movements.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

As for the five races, I'm not sure. There doesn't seem to be anywhere near the amount of casual racist between the five races in Aht Urghan that exists in the Western areas, so it's not mentioned often.

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I would just like to point out that Vana'Diel (quon and mindartia continental area) are the middle lands. Not the western areas. The western lands are hinted at being native american in type with totem poles and the like. I know you meant the middle lands in your post but I figured I'd clear up that confusion for other people.

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Originally Posted by Xellith

I would just like to point out that Vana'Diel (quon and mindartia continental area) are the middle lands. Not the western areas. The western lands are hinted at being native american in type with totem poles and the like. I know you meant the middle lands in your post but I figured I'd clear up that confusion for other people.

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Technically, "west" is a relative direction, and if we're comparing it with Aht Urhgan, then the middle lands are indeed the Western areas.

Also, didn't they hint in the WotG storyline that the western civilization was an advanced society? I believe it's where the scholar's came from. I'm not sure on that, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Technically, "west" is a relative direction, and if we're comparing it with Aht Urhgan, then the middle lands are indeed the Western areas.

Also, didn't they hint in the WotG storyline that the western civilization was an advanced society? I believe it's where the scholar's came from. I'm not sure on that, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

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While I can agree with you in what you are saying - the game speaks a different language to us all. No matter where you are. Quon/mindartia = middle lands. If you are standing in Quon you are in the middle lands. Ive seen cutscenes that talk about the middle lands in reference to Quon/mindartia in the aht urghan story.

In regard to the WOTG storyline talking about an advanced society. Im afraid I can offer no insight into this as Ive not done all the missions yet. I gave up due to the stop-start method of the updates they gave us over 3 years. Waiting on some friends and going to try doing it but we play at weird times so its not going to be anytime soon.

But I know I've seen some furnishings that talk about the western lands (named Ulbuka) and I do believe one was a totem pole.

edited. added this

http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/a/a2/Totem_pole.jpg

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Originally Posted by Xellith

But I know I've seen some furnishings that talk about the western lands (named Ulbuka) and I do believe one was a totem pole.

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Interesting... maybe there's more than one civilization there? Kinda like the past North America, modern society with native tribes all around.

Considering that the tarutaru used to roam in tribes and had a very native american tribal kind of style. Im going to say that if they ever impliment an Ulbuka continent that the majority of the tribes are going to be tarutaru. Possibly warring tarutaru and hume tribes.

While the galka are kind of like beastmen in their build I personally dont believe that there would be a bunch of galka out there that we dont know about and also that they arnt really a warlike people. Granted their affinity is "Rage". But I dont believe this applies to many galka without reason (hi u racist bastok)

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Originally Posted by Xellith

Considering that the tarutaru used to roam in tribes and had a very native american tribal kind of style. Im going to say that if they ever impliment an Ulbuka continent that the majority of the tribes are going to be tarutaru. Possibly warring tarutaru and hume tribes.

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I can't help but imagine a primitive tribe of Tarutaru being the most miserable creatures to ever exist, if a primitive culture in Vana'Diel has limited use of magic. Given that even many vegetables in Vana'Diel are sentient and capable of melee combat, their starvation rate must be higher than the bros who lived in the American colonies.

Can you imagine waking up each morning knowing that you would have to wrestle a man-sized radish to death in order to eat?

Also, good catch on the areas we generally run around in being the middle lands. The Western areas are mentioned so rarely that I forgot there was even anything there.

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If you can trust what some of the Mamool Ja imply, they were the first in the area by a long shot.

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Could be lying, could be perspective. I'm not too keen on empire/ephramad/olduum history but if the lizards snuck in after olduum but before the empire really took root it would seem to them that them hooms be stealing their lands.

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

Here's a mystery: How does Mayakov lisp a silent S?

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I've theen him lithp an emote <thigh>

I think they just wrote dialogue for him, then did a find and replace with all s's with th's

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

I can't help but imagine a primitive tribe of Tarutaru being the most miserable creatures to ever exist, if a primitive culture in Vana'Diel has limited use of magic. Given that even many vegetables in Vana'Diel are sentient and capable of melee combat, their starvation rate must be higher than the bros who lived in the American colonies.

Can you imagine waking up each morning knowing that you would have to wrestle a man-sized radish to death in order to eat?

Also, good catch on the areas we generally run around in being the middle lands. The Western areas are mentioned so rarely that I forgot there was even anything there.

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http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Lungo-Nango

Dont mess with da taru.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Technically, "west" is a relative direction, and if we're comparing it with Aht Urhgan, then the middle lands are indeed the Western areas.

Also, didn't they hint in the WotG storyline that the western civilization was an advanced society? I believe it's where the scholar's came from. I'm not sure on that, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

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The question becomes what advanced qualifies as.

Aht Urhgan is the most advanced region we've seen as they've possessed simple communication radios and television (through an automaton) and the middle lands most advanced technology are airships.

Id imagine the "advanced" west to be more industrial to the rest of the worlds medieval feel.

People need to crack the dictionary open and read the meaning of "Avatar". Avatars a basically a portion of the "God" not the Gods themselves. Gods tend to have a difficult time manifesting on our plane of existence. As do mortals have a hard time actually seeing Complete Gods manifested. Usually, in most literatures this would push a mortals sanity to the brink.

Phoenix isn't dead and has already revived itself, as noted by the single flame feather at the end of Promathia.

I'm truly fascinated by the other "unknown" continents and cultures suggested by the Wings storyline.

I was under the impression that Pheonix had merged with Seltheus during the finale and that they weren't going to unmerge anytime soon.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Can you imagine waking up each morning knowing that you would have to wrestle a man-sized radish to death in order to eat?

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I laughed so hard at that..

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Originally Posted by Shadotter

I was under the impression that Pheonix had merged with Seltheus during the finale and that they weren't going to unmerge anytime soon.

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This.

Pheonix was reborn in Sel'theus. Technically, he's a terrestrial avatar now.

He always was a terrestial avatar.

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Originally Posted by Shadotter

He always was a terrestial avatar.

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The "he" was referring to Selh'teus, not Phoenix (BTW, Phoenix is female according to cutscenes).

Does this make Sel'theus a hermaphrodite now?

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Originally Posted by Shadotter

Does this make Sel'theus a hermaphrodite now?

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Some mysteries are better left unsolved.

But not this one! Give me a moment to find my speculum, tiny and awkwardly cold flashlight, and latex gloves; and I'm on my way to sea!

On a more serious note, why is it that there are no Evil Weapons in the past zones?

I Believe Evil Weapons were created very recently. Its in the DRK AF quests if i remember right

Gerwitz was the galka who forged powerful weapons using an rare type of galkan darksteel. Im asuming that these weapons were used as part of the Allied Force of Altana and that many have been lost or left on the battlefield. Many of these weapons have over time come to be possessed.

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Evil weapons are granted a will of their own by the powerful energy of the Crystal Line. Evil weapons enslave spirits of the earth called kobolds to do their bidding. They are often spotted near Crags or other forms of Cermet, leading some to speculate that their powers are somehow connected with energy of the Mothercrystals, or otherwise associated with the Zilart.

Those who defeat them are rarely rewarded, if at all. Many evil weapons carry nothing on them, and only a few carry some occasionally needed specialty items, such as keys or maybe a scroll.

Coming in two varieties, Warriors or Red Mages, these strange looking monsters appear almost animalistic in nature due to the kobolds they have possessed, but the evil weapons themselves are arcana. The two jobs look the same and use the same weapon, but can be distinguished by their behavior, with the Red Mage variety able to cast spells.

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Basically - the monster type "Evil Weapon". You arnt actually fighting the big ugly fly eyed fattys (They are the Kobolds). You are just defeating their puppet. The 'real' monster is the actual sword or other type of weapon flying overhead. That is the master.

Summary: There were no weapons strewn around the various crags to be turned into these monsters that we all know today.

Hope that helps ^^

So, the issue is the material and not the fact that they're weapons? If someone forged some cooking tools out of that same material, there could potentially be Evil Skillets, Decorative Spatulas, Dancing Whisks, and Demonic Egg Separators running about?

That sounds...kind of awesome, if so.

The weapons material doesn't seem to make a difference as Tu'lia is strewn with evil weapons and was inactive right up until recently within the timeline of Vana'diel. Some of the weapons are floating staves carved of wood so apparently the weapon doesn't need to be metallic either.

The Zilart/Kuluu conflict would explain why weapons might be strewn about and then the activation of the island by Elde'narche in RotZ would have given them sentience. The question then becomes how Kobolds got up there to be possessed.

Well the kobolds are earthly spirits. They dont have to be literally earth bound. Its possible that they are everywhere - or that they were on the sky platform before sky actually was in the air since it was built on the ground then ascended. Also I dont think its the material involved. I think its just the emptyness within the crags themselves. All that energy is connected via the crystal line and its possible that the "evil energy" within the crags was carried along the crystal line and up through delkfutt to tu'lia.

I'm going to say that those possessed weapons are caused by the emptyness.

Haven't weapons always been a sign the planet has been in danger? Sure, Brigandish Blade isn't exactly the Ruby Weapon, but I always felt as though they were added by the crag lines to remind players of the storyline. Technically even if you aren't questing, someone is trying to free Promathia, etc.

Another reason why we don't see many weapons in the past, we aren't in the crag zones. That would be why there are no Evil Weapons in Abyssea, no crags anymore.

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Originally Posted by Covenant

People need to crack the dictionary open and read the meaning of "Avatar". Avatars a basically a portion of the "God" not the Gods themselves. Gods tend to have a difficult time manifesting on our plane of existence. As do mortals have a hard time actually seeing Complete Gods manifested. Usually, in most literatures this would push a mortals sanity to the brink.

Phoenix isn't dead and has already revived itself, as noted by the single flame feather at the end of Promathia.

I'm truly fascinated by the other "unknown" continents and cultures suggested by the Wings storyline.

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Phoenix merged with Selh'teus shortly before you got to Al'Taieu, which is why he was sporting wings and avatar glow in the Grand Palace of Hu'Xzoi cutscene.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

So, the issue is the material and not the fact that they're weapons? If someone forged some cooking tools out of that same material, there could potentially be Evil Skillets, Decorative Spatulas, Dancing Whisks, and Demonic Egg Separators running about?

That sounds...kind of awesome, if so.

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I so want you to write an expansion for this game after reading that.

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Originally Posted by Alaik

Haven't weapons always been a sign the planet has been in danger? Sure, Brigandish Blade isn't exactly the Ruby Weapon, but I always felt as though they were added by the crag lines to remind players of the storyline. Technically even if you aren't questing, someone is trying to free Promathia, etc.

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As far as I can remember, that only applies to Weapons in FFVII. In FFVI, the Ultima Weapon (or Atma for good time Woolsyisms) put the planet in peril.

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Originally Posted by Septimus

I so want you to write an expansion for this game after reading that.

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My creation would be more difficult than but equally accessible to Abyssea, with a story based around learning forbidden arts known only by Parike-Poranke. Obviously, we adventurers would use such knowledge to clean inter-dimensional debris from Atomos and fight or explore whatever fell out depending on the size.

It would have boring-as-sin side-quests that involved NPCs talking for a half-hour about Beastman theology or how cooking works in Vana'diel, because I am a sick and horrible man who loves that kind of stuff in fantasy worlds.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

My creation would be more difficult than but equally accessible to Abyssea, with a story based around learning forbidden arts known only by Parike-Poranke. Obviously, we adventurers would use such knowledge to clean inter-dimensional debris from Atomos and fight or explore whatever fell out depending on the size.

It would have boring-as-sin side-quests that involved NPCs talking for a half-hour about Beastman theology or how cooking works in Vana'diel, because I am a sick and horrible man who loves that kind of stuff in fantasy worlds.

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How about how Beastmen theologians cook? And the richness is what makes a fantasy world worth exploring, that is why Square has so many fans. That is why no matter how mad Fistule and Cloudsplitter may make me, I haven't given up on Vana'diel.

Why can't male Elvaan completely plant their left foot?

i got 1 lol whats with the bolder blocking passage to byakko's island i know what its for but how come a drg that can jump meters up in the air cannot simply clear a bolder that is what 3-4ft high

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Originally Posted by Septimus

How about how Beastmen theologians cook? And the richness is what makes a fantasy world worth exploring, that is why Square has so many fans. That is why no matter how mad Fistule and Cloudsplitter may make me, I haven't given up on Vana'diel.

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That could be the secret use for Cloudsplitter! It's awful for combat, but may produce just the right heat for tempering Goblin chocolate.

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Originally Posted by FANCY60

i got 1 lol whats with the bolder blocking passage to byakko's island i know what its for but how come a drg that can jump meters up in the air cannot simply clear a bolder that is what 3-4ft high

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The real question is why the Groundskeepers haven't repaired that bridge collapse. For mindless drones, they seem to be failing at their programmed tasks.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

The real question is why the Groundskeepers haven't repaired that bridge collapse. For mindless drones, they seem to be failing at their programmed tasks.

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Never mind that that's probably not their actual programmed task.

In fact, I'm pretty sure their programmed task is to EXTERMINATE.