Sorry for 4th post because I just have a lot to say - -. I keep saying a statement like this is as wrong as claiming Japan is the same as China, because it doesn't consider how LS power structure is different from each other, and probably came from someone who isn't highly involved in endgame community, like how only none Japanese/Chinese people make generalized claims like Japan is the same as China because they're both Asian countries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jin_Uzuki
Some LS has more of a vertical power structure, in which the leader is the only person that makes decision when it comes to recruiting, strategy, contents etc. While everyone including sacks has very little power.
Some LS has more of a council style decision making process, in that case sacks has more power and influences, but not none sack members.
Some LS has more of a flat structure when it comes to decision making, that even none sack members has some influences when it comes to recruiting/strategy decisions.
These kind of LS culture all functions very differently from server to server, LS to LS. A player may be more suitable/prefer/do better in a flat organization, and vice versa. There's no way that every LS on every server are the same, lol.
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01-12-2017, 02:02 AMAfania
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01-12-2017, 03:47 AMJin_UzukiFalse equivalence is a thing, look it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Afania
Also good job complain about people making generalization while also making generalization I guess.
First, you don't know all the 6,000 players of Ragnarok. That's psychically impossible.Quote:
One of the difference between a 1000 people server and constant immigrant/returning player adding to the population, and a 400 people population that's mostly stagnant, is that on 400 people server, everyone knows people on a higher degree. If you just met a player that came from Siren 2 days ago on Asura, you simply aren't going to know that person as well as someone that you've been playing with for 8 years. So while Asura is a bigger server with more people, it doesn't quite function the same as 400 people server because 70% of population on that bigger server are either new, returning player, or immigrants.
Second, everyone knows everyone is what people used to say in 2006 when the server had 10k+ players active anytime.
Third 1000 people online anytime are really low.
We were discussing endgame events. You specifically referred to a version of endgame that only exists in your mind and only includes 3 events while discharging every other endgame even, and without making it clear. When I didn't realize what you were talking about you went "You probably don't do endgame". Uh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Afania
Also again, I'm not telling you to switch server. I don't know how I can make it clear. I'm telling you that if Ragnarok suddenly gained 1000 players nothing would change. You would still do what you are doing now. -
01-12-2017, 04:00 AMDiavoloName one or two of those things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Afania
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01-12-2017, 05:36 AMAfaniaFor what? So you can proceed to say "But X, Y, Z LS/group on Asura did the the same on [date]"? I'm not in your X, Y, Z LS, nor have connections with any of these people, there's no way I could accomplish the same thing even if other people already done it. And that was my point, while you repeatly making point of "But X, Y, Z group did all these on Asura just fine, thus everyone should transfer to Asura" which I don't agree with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diavolo
But if you insist that I should name 1 or 2, I'll name 2 as requested.
1) Obtain a leadership/decision maker position in an endgame LS.
2) Create an alliance for high lv content, such as WoC, with 5+ prebuff mules without paying anyone.
I can't accomplish 1) nor 2) just on any server because I don't have the connections to do so, like I said pages ago. To accomplish 1 you need to become leader's close friend. To accomplish 2 you need to know 5 friends willing to come, buff and drop or play with friends with mules. All the people that could give me the opportunity to accomplish 1) and 2) that I know of are on Ragnarok. -
01-12-2017, 05:44 AMAfaniaNo one claim to know 6000 players, good job putting words in my mouth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jin_Uzuki
No one said 1000 people online anytime is super high populations, we only said current escha content design can't support 5000 people very well. Which is fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jin_Uzuki
Yes if a server suddenly gained 1000 players it will be different lol. Of course people would still do the same content, but claiming nothing would change is just lol. Back then when Rag server merged with Cait Sith Rag gained 1000+ players, things changed. Things always change, nothing is stagnant. Ragnarok in 2006 is different from 2015, 2015 is different from 2017. So does Asura. Claiming nothing changes is beyond ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jin_Uzuki
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01-12-2017, 06:00 AMDiavoloOh, you know, discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Afania
Your entire argument, that Asura is not for everyone, hinges on one point: that you cannot accomplish the same things on Asura that you can on other servers, in this case Ragnarok. Prove it. What crazy things did you accomplish on a quieter server [Ragnarok] that you believe you can't accomplish on a larger one [Asura]? -
01-12-2017, 06:03 AMAfaniaQuote:
Originally Posted by Diavolo
I just did an edit and listed 2 very specific examples, check it out. There are more if you want me to list more.
Also before you proceed to make an argument of "But you can totally do that on any server if you do X, Y, Z, such as cybering with ls leader, lv prebuff mules yourself, make better friends. You know, X, Y, Z Asura LS uses 10 prebuff mules all the time, and I have 10 friends that runs endgame LS". Please consider the difficulty and extra work required for alternative solutions. If extra work is required, then it's considered a negative, not positive. -
01-12-2017, 06:51 AMJin_UzukiTo quote yourself:Quote:
Originally Posted by Afania
I can assure you that "knowing people" even to a "higher degree" is not exclusive to low pop server, as old FFXI showed us.Quote:
that on 400 people server, everyone knows people on a higher degree
Speaking of putting words in mouths, I don't know if it can support 5000, but I sure know it can support 1000. Either way, even if it did, life finds a way, just like it did in 2006 with far worse competition, I suppose?Quote:
No one said 1000 people online anytime is super high populations, we only said current escha content design can't support 5000 people very well. Which is fact.
Oh yes, they would. PUG would be more actives, people could do more events resulting in low queues (Since not everyone is pigeonholed into ambu) and AH would have a better economy as more materials would be provided. But for anything else? You could still do your T4 and Master Trials, I assure you.Quote:
Yes if a server suddenly gained 1000 players it will be different lol. Of course people would still do the same content, but claiming nothing would change is just lol.
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01-12-2017, 07:10 AMDiavoloI'm being trolled, aren't I?Quote:
Originally Posted by Afania
I don't mean to diminish your accomplishments or sound mean, but those aren't "crazy things," especially the part about not having to pay anyone and needing 5 or more prebuff mules. You seem experienced with Escha/Reis NMs, you would easily be able to accomplish those same goals on Asura in short order, with or without your friends. -
01-12-2017, 07:34 AMAfaniaQuote:
Originally Posted by Diavolo
Nope I can't!
Maybe I shoulda be more clear and explain in details, while 1) and 2) that I listed doesn't sound like "crazy things" nor being considered as accomplishment by you, it directly tied to some goals that I had in game last summer.
One of the goals that I had in game last summer, was to make a melee WoC pt and see the shortest possible kill speed doable with my resource. So at that time I told my friend "I think it's possible to make a 2 min WoC pt, let's try that"
As a gamer I hope we can both agree that "challenging the shorter kill record" is often considered goals and accomplishments. That's how some people, including myself, have fun.
If you search youtube, there's a couple of melee woc kills from several top LSs that provides general avg kill speed. The first video is done by RiotForceSix of Odin, which was 6min done with 4 DDs. There was another one done by Bloodlusty of Asura, which was 4 min kill done with 4 DDs. Another one was done by Spicryan, which was 3:30 min with 3 DDs and 1 DD COR. All of these groups and people are top tier, with top tier DD jobs, and yet none of them accomplished 2 min kill. If these people can't accomplish 2 min kill, what makes you think a nobody average joe like me could do it?
There were only 2 solutions.
1) Get better DDs(than those youtube people and server top LSs).
2) Use prebuff mules, drop COR and BRD in the ally, so you get more DPS buff without having to add HP.
1) is very unrealistic 2) is easier. Thus I choose 2), and I'd still prefer 2) anytime over 1), realistically speaking. We kept adding more and more prebuff mules/DD to ally to improve kill speed until the kill speed finally reached 2 min.
If you think 1) is realistically doable for most people, I'd like to see a youtube video from you for the same result without using prebuffs.
Long story short:
If you think I could just transfer to any server with 5000 people, and suddenly finish all the hardest content in a day without any friends, connections, top end LS supports then you're dead wrong. It's not possible to accomplish many things without people that you know, people that you trust, people willing to invite you, or people willing to follow you. And THAT requires connections. You don't just stand there, shout for a party of 10 people on a 2000 people server without knowing anyone and expect to kill the hardest things in game as easily as server top LSs.
If you think you could do that, you're either drastically better than me(and majority of endgame players) at this game, or have extremely unrealistic/overconfident point of view about how to create, organize, building a team and manage a party/ls for the hardest content in game.
Again, for this entire discussion, I feel like I'm talking with someone living on another planet that just talk all day and no action, or imagine things that's easier said than done. That is fine, really. I don't expect we share the same point of view toward endgaming since our goals, background and experiences are very different.
But claims like "You seem experienced with Escha/Reis NMs, you would easily be able to accomplish those same goals on Asura in short order, with or without your friends" is just wrong, and you have no idea how wrong you are.