Enough is enough

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Originally Posted by Arcon

That's precisely what I meant. No evidence to support that statement, just dubious and unsupported quantifications like "many think" or "most prefer" and things like that.

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And what evidence is there to the contrary? The fact that fewer people play the game now than did before Abyssea? That would be the case even if Abyssea had never been released. Since we can't know how many people would have left without Abyssea, and we don't have an exact number of people who left during Abyssea, it's impossible to use this as proof that Abyssea was bad for the game.

You seem to be making the same logical leap that other people are making, just in the opposite direction. Overall, I believe the massive leap in player strength and ease of playing was bad for the game. But I have no proof. So I have no right to demand people who hold the opposite belief to present evidence when I can provide none myself.

I think people are leaving the game simply because the people who used to play all them years ago were mostly teenagers etc, and the game has been out for many years. The people who started when they were 13 are now into their late teens or 20's and consequently have other commitments than gaming. This on top of the fact that FFXI has a lot of other competition, which have a lot more advertising than FFXI, and the fact that FFXIV is just round the corner has led to a decline of the overall population. New players aren't joining as much as they used to so SE have to make up for that by introducing ways to lvl fast but the population is still declining.

So basically to sum up - FFXI is suffering from old age, and I personally think the impact that Abyssea has on the game is in no way relevant to people leaving. The level cap on the other hand was, but that was a long time ago and people left before they introduced it. People just play the "blame game" and Abyssea is an easy target due to being so different. Of course nobody can really know because nobody submits a survey when they quit this game, so like every argument on here, it's just speculation and opinion, but seriously people - stop blaming Abyssea for every wrong in this game, there are a lot of other reasons why things have gone wrong and a lot of things that have gone right in the game since.

Vana'diel for dummies:

Life of Vanadiel Pre-abyssea:
- boring Lv.75 cap
- kill the stupidly looking pink birds repeatedly, day after day, like an autistic maniac for a 'quick ride' to that boring level cap
- then spent a big chunk of the day, everyday, staring at Dragon Aery's darters
- Waste more of your usless life in Behemoth Dominion staring at other idiots
- Mindlessly running around sky fighting for a pop once every few hours like a bunch of stupid fools.
- Use an army of the mentally retarded to farm your relic or being used by greedy bastards to farm their 3rd relic while you don't even have 1M gil next to your name.
- Stupid Limbus and its unreasonably long cooldown and restrictions.

If you still think the above could keep FFXI alive in this date and age, or if you still think the above were enough for people to keep paying monthly fees, there is no way for your undeveloped brain to comprehend how Abyssea saved FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Vitus

Vana'diel for dummies:

Life of Vanadiel Pre-abyssea:
- boring Lv.75 cap
- kill the stupidly looking pink birds repeatedly, day after day, like an autistic maniac for a 'quick ride' to that boring level cap
- then spent a big chunk of the day, everyday, staring at Dragon Aery's darters
- Waste more of your usless life in Behemoth Dominion staring at other idiots
- Mindlessly running around sky fighting for a pop once every few hours like a bunch of stupid fools.
- Use an army of the mentally retarded to farm your relic or being used by greedy bastards to farm their 3rd relic while you don't even have 1M gil next to your name.
- Stupid Limbus and its unreasonably long cooldown and restrictions.

If you still think the above could keep FFXI alive in this date and age, or if you still think the above were enough for people to keep paying monthly fees, there is no way for your undeveloped brain to comprehend how Abyssea saved FFXI.

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*clap* you sir, nailed it.

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Originally Posted by Jaall

I think people are leaving the game simply because the people who used to play all them years ago were mostly teenagers etc, and the game has been out for many years. The people who started when they were 13 are now into their late teens or 20's and consequently have other commitments than gaming. This on top of the fact that FFXI has a lot of other competition, which have a lot more advertising than FFXI, and the fact that FFXIV is just round the corner has led to a decline of the overall population. New players aren't joining as much as they used to so SE have to make up for that by introducing ways to lvl fast but the population is still declining.

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Pretty much this. The people who played FFXI in 2005 are 8 years older now than they were then. So much can change in that time, including what you want out of the game and what you are willing to put up with. The game was so stagnant before Abyssea. In order to survive, the game had to change because the player base changed.

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Originally Posted by Vitus

Vana'diel for dummies:

Life of Vanadiel Pre-abyssea:
- boring Lv.75 cap
- kill the stupidly looking pink birds repeatedly, day after day, like an autistic maniac for a 'quick ride' to that boring level cap
- then spent a big chunk of the day, everyday, staring at Dragon Aery's darters
- Waste more of your usless life in Behemoth Dominion staring at other idiots
- Mindlessly running around sky fighting for a pop once every few hours like a bunch of stupid fools.
- Use an army of the mentally retarded to farm your relic or being used by greedy bastards to farm their 3rd relic while you don't even have 1M gil next to your name.
- Stupid Limbus and its unreasonably long cooldown and restrictions.

If you still think the above could keep FFXI alive in this date and age, or if you still think the above were enough for people to keep paying monthly fees, there is no way for your undeveloped brain to comprehend how Abyssea saved FFXI.

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I'm glad you enjoyed Abyssea so much more than the other expansions. I, however, have an underdeveloped brain because I personally preferred the work they did on CoP to Abyssea. You are certainly welcome to your opinions on what is and is not enjoyable about the game. However, I recommend that you do not forget the fact that you are one individual among many who all have different tastes.

My linkshell crumbled little-by-little during the abyssea expansions until it fully collapsed shortly after HoA. Since we no longer needed the large team and we no longer needed the time investment, people started to go their own ways. Some because they no longer felt needed (any dolt could level and gear my job in no time flat- I'm no longer important to my group). Some because they were extremely hardcore endgamers who didn't like the idea of people who invest 1/10 as much time having gear that was just as good as theirs. Some because they had finally reached the top and felt like they had no where to go. Some because their other friends were leaving the game, so they may as well do the same. Casual games are easier to drop than hard-core games, so when FFXI started transferring more and more towards casual play, many people who had been on the fence finally found it easy to choose to leave.

Clearly, my experience with Abyssea was different from yours. I can see why you would have enjoyed it so much, and I respect your right to enjoy it. For some people Abyssea saved FFXI. For others, it destroyed FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Jaall

People just play the "blame game" and Abyssea is an easy target due to being so different. Of course nobody can really know because nobody submits a survey when they quit this game, so like every argument on here, it's just speculation and opinion, but seriously people - stop blaming Abyssea for every wrong in this game, there are a lot of other reasons why things have gone wrong and a lot of things that have gone right in the game since.

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I don't blame abyssea, if anything I blame devs for assuming that this game will die out. I have an opposite feeling tho, especially since I believe that one FFXIV Reborn comes out it's going to tank, just like it did last time... then devs are going to be scrapping for love on this one again, JUST like last time. difference is this time they'll know they can't revamp it so might just realize how important this game is. IDK just food for thought for now, they might not be listening but they will eventually

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Since we can't know how many people would have left without Abyssea, and we don't have an exact number of people who left during Abyssea, it's impossible to use this as proof that Abyssea was bad for the game.

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Which is, again, precisely what I said. We can't prove anything either way. But since the only evidence we have is pointing to the opposite (subtle (but I (increasingly) feel necessary) note at this point: evidence is not proof, it's an indication (see above)), I feel it's inappropriate for people to play the "Abyssea is good because I like it" card, which seems to be way more popular than it deserves. With that said, all arguments in either direction seem awkwardly silly to me, but silliest of all are the people trying to use psychological statements extrapolated from their own perception of the game as evidence to support their opinion. That is the only thing I wanted to point out.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Which is, again, precisely what I said. We can't prove anything either way. But since the only evidence we have is pointing to the opposite (subtle (but I (increasingly) feel necessary) note at this point: evidence is not proof, it's an indication (see above)), I feel it's inappropriate for people to play the "Abyssea is good because I like it" card, which seems to be way more popular than it deserves. With that said, all arguments in either direction seem awkwardly silly to me, but silliest of all are the people trying to use psychological statements extrapolated from their own perception of the game as evidence to support their opinion. That is the only thing I wanted to point out.

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What evidence is there to support the idea that Abyssea was bad for the game? True, it tore my linkshell apart, but other linkshells were born in that same timeframe. True, fewer people play now than they did before Abyssea, but if that is evidence that Abyssea was bad for the game, then it's evidence that no good changes have been made ever since FFXI was at peak membership.

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Originally Posted by Darrt

...It has become apparent that the FFXI devs have forgotten that WE pay THEM to play this game.

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I daresay SE's experience with FF XIV sent the message that WE pay THEM to play their games - or don't pay them to play their games - loud and clear.

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...They add content to the game that is incredibly difficult ... If i am paying you my money, however small the amount may be, i sure as hell better be able to participate in / clear any event in the game with whatever setup i choose, and the only thing that should hold me back is that event being a little more difficult if i choose a less than optimal setup.

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A significant portion of what makes FFXI stand apart from other MMOs is its greater level of challenge. It sounds like you want things to be less challenging than they currently are, which would likely cause a larger portion of the player community to lose interest and quit than it would help to retain or bring back.

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Nevermind that you need loot from the old salvage to get the better loot from new salvage, which BTW means if you missed out when TOAU came out, you now need to do 75 content before you can do 99 content because of arbitrary entry limitations. Oh and BTW, good luck getting the drops you need in old school salvage.

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Your best bet would be to find and gather together a group of fellow players that also need (original) Salvage drops, and go on regular runs with them to get the drops you collectively need.

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Which takes me to my next two points;

SE refuses to adjust the 3 man limit on ToAU content which would make getting stuff done that NO ONE wants to do anymore (assaults) or is hard to find people for (salvage, einherjar) I know this is an MMO but when content can be cleared by one person, make so can enter with ONLY 1 PERSON.

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As you state, this is indeed an MMO, which is to say "massively multiplayer", the implication of which is that you will need a group of other players with which to accomplish many potential goals. Why you need a group of other players is incidental.

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Limbus 2 would be good but again, good luck finding people to do it. Enif has some nice pieces, Murzim is mostly trash, and the lack of AF+2 leaves almost no incentive to do this event.

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It sounds like your problem is not the way the game is set up, but that you have difficulty finding a group of players to participate with you in such events.

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Whats that? oh AF+2, yeah it might make people do this event but SE has flat out said NO to the notion of adding such a thing. Again SE, WE PAY YOU to play this game. Obviously adding ideas any Tom, Dick, or Harry throw at you would be bad, but if the majority of the games population want it, MAKE IT SO.

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You pay them to get access to the servers and to get a (or several) Content ID(s) / character slot(s). You receive what you pay for. Nowhere does it say that what you are paying for is the right to dictate or even have a say in the continued development of the game.


Long story short: put your money where your mouth is. Your vote is binary. Either you like what SE is doing with FFXI enough to support it with your money, or you don't, and you cancel your subscription until you do.

My vote is I support what SE is doing with FFXI to the tune of $14.99/month. No longer to the tune of $17.99/month. Certainly not to the minimum dual-boxing tune of $25.98/month.

What's your vote?