Windurst region fix.

you know i used to think this forums were a good idea now not so much.

there is oh-most no topic that is not derailed by comments against the TC or another poster by players that dislike them and feal the knead to insult or call out that poster every time they post. and when sum one calls them on it you get a response of "i have to call him/her out because he/she is giving bad info. hath the time the person being insulted has not even said anything wrong.

yes yes i know its a internet forum and that's how mmo forums are but my point is its a sad day when posters have to rezolt to insults to one another raver then just staying out of the topic. if you don't agree with the poster or if you do disagree state why and leave the insults and snide comments out as much as you can.

i come to this forums to talk about FF XI or read posters talk about FF XI not lisin to 200 page long topics about how one player is a noob because of how they play or why players that do or don't use aby are noobs.

now i am starting to think the best thing SE could do is shut down the forums and just do-what they want as it seams at this point the topics just are a pile of venom.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RAIST

Making headlines, from the wiki:
.
Seems pretty self-explanatory....either you snk/inv yourself, you bring someone who can do it for you, or you get oils/powders either by buying them or have someone make them.

---

No RAIST, that's not the full story. Sneak and invisible wear off when you interact with objects such as the Mahogany Door, which means that once the cut scene ends, you die due to the proximity of the mobs to the door. I'm sorry, but there's no legitimate excuse to force a character to die in order to complete a low level quest. I remember how it was before the change, and it was never a guaranteed death before, regardless of level. The goblins that used to be in the area were far enough away from the door to be avoided.

Sure, it's not a major issue, and I don't want SE to devote time to it if it means they can't fix more important things... but there's no reason to defend the poor design decision here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by katiekat

you know i used to think this forums were a good idea now not so much.

there is oh-most no topic that is not derailed by comments against the TC or another poster by players that dislike them and feal the knead to insult or call out that poster every time they post. and when sum one calls them on it you get a response of "i have to call him/her out because he/she is giving bad info. hath the time the person being insulted has not even said anything wrong.

yes yes i know its a internet forum and that's how mmo forums are but my point is its a sad day when posters have to rezolt to insults to one another raver then just staying out of the topic. if you don't agree with the poster or if you do disagree state why and leave the insults and snide comments out as much as you can.

i come to this forums to talk about FF XI or read posters talk about FF XI not lisin to 200 page long topics about how one player is a noob because of how they play or why players that do or don't use aby are noobs.

now i am starting to think the best thing SE could do is shut down the forums and just do-what they want as it seams at this point the topics just are a pile of venom.

---

Not only that but SE ignores us alot as well. We make ideas and suggestions, give feedback, and alot of the time we get told its impossible and cant be done for blah blah reason or its against their ideas/design.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Not only that but SE ignores us alot as well. We make ideas and suggestions, give feedback, and alot of the time we get told its impossible and cant be done for blah blah reason or its against their ideas/design.

---

hate to be the bringer of bad news, but.... most ideas people make are beyond the algorythems(sp?) of how pc programing works, or so big SE can't simply do it. The devs know the game code best. But they do for the most part listen... but itsn't some some conspiricy if they can't do the idea.

all we can do is propose suggestions, but with this community it is hard to really SEE the suggestion... cuz what happens is ppl attack each other trying to discredit the poster just to feel good about themselves cuz its "cool" to pick on someone you don't know. And some suggestion are poorly made as in the suggestion itself attacks a group of players.

anyway thats my 2 cents. If my suggestion gets used or not idc... I said my peace put the best case for my idea.

They have told us they can not do things that players have already done with programs like Windower. I refuse to believe that a group of people can do something on the game more than the company who made it. It just seems more likely they don't want to do it because they think it will create chaos or it goes against what they were going to do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Demon6324236

They have told us they can not do things that players have already done with programs like Windower. I refuse to believe that a group of people can do something on the game more than the company who made it. It just seems more likely they don't want to do it because they think it will create chaos or it goes against what they were going to do.

---

because its a bit different... windower is a third party tool yes? And you can run add-ons through said tool yes? It's different between running an addon on with a game then having it intergrated in the actual games code work. SE know the code and frame work best. They know what limits they have. And it is their game, they have the final say. Being upset over the fact they can't do or do not want to do certain things is a tad silly. It is just a game. But please keep on topic... there is alreafy a conspiricy thoery thread. Post you concerns there not here.

OK.. so many to respond too... where to start....

@ Rosina
You keep ignoring the fact that in addition to them adding the higher level mobs in the areas once populated with lower level monsters, they've also restructured things elswhere to offset the loss. There are new paths to take for leveling at those levels in question. Again, if you would take the time to review the FoV/GoV lists, you could discern a new pattern to follow, and would notice that you can actually level without having to run as far away as you had in the past. As I mentioned previously, you can now break into the 20's close to home nations now---in the past, you ran to dunes/quifm to do this. The game has evolved, and exp has simply become much easier....it sounds more and more like you are just resistant to the new changes because you are stuck somewhere in 2006 or something, IDK. But exping up to level 30 is NOT a problem in this game anymore, probably for a reason--ie: Abyssea, perhaps?

And no, I'm not a Scrooge. I'm just more practical I guess. When a person can now follow a simpler path and get their levels without having to run all over the map now....I generally see that as a good thing. Initially, I was skeptical of the faster leveling and had my concerns, but have generally accepted this is the direction the game is now taking, and that most players have embraced it. What's done is done, and will not likely be undone--adapt and move forward.

The game has simply changed a lot in recent years, there are alternative ways to get things done now. Sometimes, you may have to think outside of the box....like those before us did in 2004. If anything, this opens new opportunities to try new strategies....should be refreshing if you truly are an adventurer at heart. For the most part, you can continue with the older playstyles if you so choose, just might have to change some areas up a bit....but there is still a path.It sounds more like you are just resistant to these changes because it is a change....and you don't like change? IDK. You pointed out specific areas/events that were now locked out, I looked them up, checked them out...and showed you how they can still be done....and you still rebutted against it, even after being shown it is still doable--guess you just don't like that you may have to approach it differently, even though it is still doable under basically the same conditions as before. Cae in point:

Quote:

---

I don't follow most leveling guides though helpful its based off the fact the person has a max cap already. And some suggestion are not good for a fresh character.

---

Regardless if it is a level 99 character or a level one character---the same criteria are used for looking these up: the level of the targets in the camps. If the mobs are the right level for fighting at the desired character level, and are decent mobs to fight based on their TP moves, magic, aggro/linking traits, etc. .... they are viable lists to be considered. Maybe this is more of that resistance to change kicking in, IDK. But a lot of those guides have been vetted and used by many. If you aren't willing to follow them, that is your choice....but don't act like you have no recourse to accomplish a goal when valid plans have been laid out for you that would allow you to complete them and you simply choose not to follow one. It was your choice to buck the system and take the path less trodden....more difficulties should be expected, as people tend to follow the path of least resistance for a reason.

@ Xantavia and Cointinuity
Yes, I agree the mobs are higher and that poses a different threat leve....but the base threat of a death is still the same. As stated earlier, in the past you would have still gathered up a group to help you. The only thing different is that you may need characters of a different caliber in some of those areas. But, for the most part, this is not the case. As in the examples set forth to me....the mobs were still the same level as before: a level 10 cap on the quest, mobs still ran up to level 12 or 16 in certain spots. The higher level targets were in a completely different section of the map. In another example, the level appropriate mobs were just restricted to one section of the map now, and you are not even under threat at all from the higher level targets--the lower level ones are right there where you zone in.

This has become a common issue with this key poster in this debate session. A challenge is set forth, or examples of an issue are put forth. Once those have been dispelled, the name calling begins. Notice that the topic quickly strayed from the topic in debate, and has now become personal. But that is another issue...back to the topic.

Yes.. Sneak/inv can wear in route and has to be recast--that has always been an issue, but remember, they did tweak them so they stay up longer now. And, yes, they may have to be taken down or wear when taking the final steps for a quest/mission, rendering a player susceptible to aggro from nasty critters. This is often why we would always ask for assistance from level appropriate friends if we couldn't manage it on our own. This is nothing new. There is a loooong list of events where this is a problem.

The bigger point is these issues have always been there, probably always will be. IDK how many times I've had to hide in a corner, waiting for the right opportunity to pop a chest, or click a door when mobs weren't looking at me, hoping and praying my warp scroll would fire before they broke through my Blink/SS or Phalanx/Shadows and killed me. This is NOTHING NEW. The only difference is that now, it may require higher level help than it may have in the past for a few isolated situations. If a player does not have a decent group of friends to pull from for this kind of assistance, then that is a problem....but not necessarily a problem with the game design. If they are 99 and don't want to help them with an area that has level 85 mobs, what makes you think they would react differently if they were level 16 mobs? Or vice versa? If they are not the type of "friends" willing to help a person in need, they simply aren't going to help you. That is a completely different animal than mob layout in a zone.

And lol at forcing a character to die to complete a quest. This is also nothing new. It's a common tactic in a lot of areas. Getting some of the tele/recall/warp quest objectives, Castle Oz/Beaudeux/davoi runs to get the ??? for GK, Getting into Ifrit's via the shortcut (die, tractor), popping coffers for AF, getting behind gate in GC (die at ledge, tractor up and reriase), death runs to spires and tractor/raise to the entrance when it was a level 30 cap, death runs to the throne room (still wind up doing this sometimes in the past version).....so many we could probably fill the page if we really thought about it.

And now, with how easy xp comes now....xp recovery from death is a moot point when you can simply kill a few mobs and get it back. Seriously...to cry about dying after you click a door and complete an objective....(by the way, they fixed a lot of these so you drop aggro when you kick off the CS, so you still get the credit even if you get aggro and die afterwards). It is really a trivial thing to complain about resorting to the death run tactics now in comparison to how it used to be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rosina

because its a bit different... windower is a third party tool yes? And you can run add-ons through said tool yes? It's different between running an addon on with a game then having it intergrated in the actual games code work. SE know the code and frame work best. They know what limits they have. And it is their game, they have the final say. Being upset over the fact they can't do or do not want to do certain things is a tad silly. It is just a game. But please keep on topic... there is alreafy a conspiricy thoery thread. Post you concerns there not here.

---

Actually, no. It's because the ones doing it in Windower are doing it in a Windows environment and are taking advantage of the access to more resources that FFXI doesn't take advantage of because SE is determined to keep FFXI on PC running within the scope of the PS2 restrictions embedded in the core code. If SE were to step further outside of these limitations on the non PS2 platforms, a lot of these things could be done (at least for the PC version of the game).

Unfortunately, this is not the case. They are loosening the reigns a little with the coming UI changes....which is a start. Hopefully, the trend continues and we'll see some bigger changes when SoA comes out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rosina

I have no idea why they changed these areas for gov. I find it a pointless change as there was alot of high level locations. Abyssea being one of them. I find it an unfair change and simple want it to back to how it used to be. So players have places to level up near windurst. Ans the ability to get these mission and quests done that require to go through the mage door.

---

The high level mobs were introduced to have it so there are EXP locations in every dungeon for people 75+ without Abyssea. They're also there so every region can be conquered by high level players, and so that Trial of the Magians can be done, since you need mobs that are worth EXP if you are doing the trial at 99.

http://parchmentpaper.blogspot.com/2...they.html#more

That maps out where the high level mobs are, and which ones aggro. Many are passive, except beastmen and undead. What could be useful is pointing out every quest/mission ??? where these new mobs are, and having the devs relocate them to low level areas or redo mob placement to have non-aggressive mobs around them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rosina

I'm happy they added fov/gov. But the low level zones into high level zones just outside towns was not needed. It skrews the leveling for low level forcing them to travel father. The tower change i'm talking about is the north tower in west sarutabaruta. It was a good location from 5-13. Great zone set up not too much aggro/link. The R1 mission towers are crap to level up in.

---

Out of cuiriosity, are you talking about Amyrillis tower, that leads to Outer horutoto ruins? According to the GoV list for that zone, there are still mobs in brackets running 10-14, 15-19, 20-24, 25-29.... looks like you could technically run all the way up near level 50 in Outer if you move around a bit.

Maybe they changed the layout a bit and you have to use a different tower, IDK.. haven't spent much time there outside of escorting people for quests in recent times....but it appears the zone is still viable for the levels you want, just might have to find a different room or hallway than before is all.

[Edit:]
Wel... first thing I run into... Stink Bats... level 15-18, Assorted Goblins range 10-14. Think those have always been there. Moving into the antechambers....

Rotten Jam...level 12-15 and a goblin NM (Legalox Heftyhand, level 33), a group of 4 90-ish players slaughtering what checked as EP bats and stuff in the tunnel behind the cracked wall to the east. More level 10-14 gobs and level 15-18 bats in the room to the west.

IDK.. so far, that initial room still looks the same as it ever was, and is still viable for the same level players as it was before they added the higher level mobs deeper in.

[Edit 2:]
Put up sneak and ran past the higher level puddings/bats and at the back alley along G-9 to G-7 (the cracked wall section) I found the same ghouls and combats that have always been there (23-26 and 20-23), as well as a treasure chest. That's the same as it ever was.

So, access to that section is still more or less the same as it ever was, you just HAVE to use sneak to get back there now to avoid aggro, where as before you might have been able to avoid aggro if high enough or just fight your way through it...but if your objective was to get back there as quickly as possible in the past, you would have gone in stealth mode...so, doesn't necessarly change the strategy for this section.

[Edit 3:]
Seems this is further much ado about nothing....did some more exploring. For Making Headlines, there is not real serious threat. Zoned into the tower....level 1-7 mobs there. When I entered the tunnels through the cracked wall, yes...there were 80-ish mobs, easily avoided with stealth tactics. Got back to the mahogany door....and it was an empty room (save for a grounds tome). That's right... no mobs to aggro you when you click the door. 80-ish bats in the tunnel leading to the room, but nothing in the room. Could click the door, and use the tome to repatriate (to avoid running back through) with NO THREAT OF AGGRO. I then ran down towards the Magic Gizmo section.

***Note, I casted sneak/inv with a 49 WHM subjob, enhancing skill only 139... and they stayed up until I had to remove invis to open the gate, but sneak lasted until I got to the cracked wall---it just wore as I'm standing there typing this.

That hall at the gate door---empty, no mobs to aggro you. The room behind it, (with the cracked wall)--level 20-24-ish mobs, as always. Might have to watch your back for aggro when you went to click the cracked wall if you were still low enough to be at risk for these lower level mobs---same as it ever was. Behind the cracked wall... level 01-05 bats.

So, for lily tower, it is looking like you are only at risk from 80-ish mobs when running from point A to point B through the middle section of tunnels for missions/quests...but once you reach your destination, you are just as safe as you ever were. Looks like all you need is a means to keep sneak/inv up when you are running through those middle sections. So... lets check 3-mage gate, shall we?

Behind Cracked wall... Gee..this looks familiar..Willo-the -Wisp (23-25), Boggarts(22-25). Nothing new here.

Yep..so, those points in the OP are basically debunked now as well.