Enmity

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Originally Posted by Dale

How much do you hit them without Atma?

Or an elemental let's say not inside abyssea.

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I wouldn't be hitting Chukwa without Atma. False comparison to the extreme.

Adamantoise without Atma? About the same as Chukwa with Atma.

Elementals outside Abyssea are even easier, as I already mentioned. They don't have huge def, their def sucks. They just have -50% PDT. It's fairly easy to hit 1k-3k WS on them, depending on self-buffs.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

I wouldn't be hitting Chukwa without Atma. False comparison to the extreme.

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Ok that would explain it then. I had a hard time understanding how you could be hitting that turtle so hard, but we did the fight without any atma. So it takes you from not hitting to 200 damage a hit. Lol nice, i really do need to get me some of that.

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Originally Posted by Dale

Ok that would explain it then. I had a hard time understanding how you could be hitting that turtle so hard, but we did the fight without any atma. So it takes you from not hitting to 200 damage a hit. Lol nice, i really do need to get me some of that

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... No. For like the 20th time in two days, you completely misunderstood what I wrote.

"I wouldn't be hitting Chukwa without Atma." means I would absolutely not be dumb enough to go into Abyssea and fight an NM without equipping my Atma first. Why would I waste my time with that? Trying to compare anything in Abyssea with or without Atma is just asinine, since anyone with an ounce of sense would be equipping their Atma if they have it.

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Originally Posted by Dale

And how do you know how "defenseful" (i don't know why you said that in quotes, i never used such a word) i think they are?

I was just pulling mobs off the top of my head that had high defense. Stop trying to be so condescending.

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The statement was a generalized one, and not aimed at you specifically. I said 'defenseful' in quotation marks since it's not a real word in the English dictionary, thus by putting it in quotation marks I accept that it's not a real word but decide to use it anyway for lack of a better word coming to mind at the time of typing.

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Originally Posted by Avarice

The statement was a generalized one, and not aimed at you specifically. I said 'defenseful' in quotation marks since it's not a real word in the English dictionary, thus by putting it in quotation marks I accept that it's not a real word but decide to use it anyway for lack of a better word coming to mind at the time of typing.

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Alright, sorry i took it harder than you meant it then. Thought you were trying to make me look like an idiot by using words that do not exist and contributing them to me :)

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

... No. For like the 20th time in two days, you completely misunderstood what I wrote.

"I wouldn't be hitting Chukwa without Atma." means I would absolutely not be dumb enough to go into Abyssea and fight an NM without equipping my Atma first. Why would I waste my time with that? Trying to compare anything in Abyssea with or without Atma is just asinine, since anyone with an ounce of sense would be equipping their Atma if they have it.

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It's not asinine lol Maybe they just started doing abyssea, and haven't had a chance to get atma yet.

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Originally Posted by Dale

It's not asinine lol Maybe they just started doing abyssea, and haven't had a chance to get atma yet.

But sorry I misunderstood you :)

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It doesn't bother me, but lack of Atmas doesn't speak for the job as a whole. A person in particular not having Atmas is fine. But that person wouldn't be a useful representative of damage on NMs either. There is the general case, and then the specific anecdotal case. For the purposes of job discussion, the general case is almost always a safer bet.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

I would agree with you if not for the fact that I know you're talking about Pld/War bloodtanking. I posted a thread with a link to Kaeko's blog for a reason, and I highly suggest you read through it. It's a long read, but it's worthwhile.

Simply put, you aren't gaining much/any Enmity by curing yourself when you take damage because the act of taking damage in the first place drops your Enmity levels. I leave the any in there because it is implied in some of your other posts that you do not gear swap or use macros at all, so it is highly unlikely you are putting enough Enmity+ in your cures to make up for the Enmity lost; that, or you are fulltiming Enmity and thus losing out on other important TP stats.

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I am not talking about pld/war blood tanking. Just to clear that up. I don't even know exactly what that term means.

And yes, i'm aware you lose enmity when you are hit. That is why healing yourself when you need to is so beneficial for a tank to do, as it helps recover the lost enmity. Obvioulsy if you were to just stand there after getting hit and not heal yourself you are going to lose more than if you had healed yourself. Therefore - it is wise to heal yourself as a paladin. That's all I am saying. It can be used effectively as an enmity tool, as well as a surivival tool. It's good. Paladins should use it.

As far as "blood tanking" as a pld/war, i'll leave that for your guide to discuss.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

It doesn't bother me, but lack of Atmas doesn't speak for the job as a whole. A person in particular not having Atmas is fine. But that person wouldn't be a useful representative of damage on NMs either. There is the general case, and then the specific anecdotal case. For the purposes of job discussion, the general case is almost always a safer bet.

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I'm not even sure what that meant. So i'll refrain from commenting at the risk of misunderstanding you again :)

But I will just say this. Even taking into account high end atma, the monk may be able to put out more damage than a Paladin - but he will never be able to heal himself effectively. And I do think this advantage is overlooked by too many paladins, and does contribute to this self-loathing many paladins seem to have about their job. It is a real and significant advantage they have over other tanks with higher offenses - and does help balance it out.

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Originally Posted by Dale

But I will just say this. Even taking into account high end atma, the monk may be able to put out more damage than a Paladin - but he will never be able to heal himself effectively. And I do think this advantage is overlooked by too many paladins, and does contribute to this self-loathing many paladins seem to have about their job. It is a real and significant advantage they have over other tanks with higher offenses - and does help balance it out.

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Please read this: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ould-Read-This)

1 Cure IV when accounting for casting time (2.5 seconds) and casting/JA delay (2 seconds) will essentially cost you 2 attack rounds with Haste/Marches. If your PLD can swing for 150 damage or more you will generate more hate than a Cure IV for 450 cast on a 75 will do.

When you're with a group or just a WHM being able to heal yourself effectively as you keep calling it when you're the tank means nothing if it gets you less hate than your own DDing will get you because the more you cure yourself the sooner you're going to lose hate.