MNK/WAR tank I'm confused Please Assist

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Originally Posted by Monchat

Not sure I understand your logic. Doing thing with 6 people is stupid yet VW is cool? Who farm seals/gems w/o BLM BRD and THF +whm+dd at least? Soloer who have no friends? You forgot to add NIN to the list for red procing.

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My logic being RDM and BRD are entirely OTT that only noobs need. I neither specified they were farming seals or gems and nowhere said 6 PEOPLE either (2 people, 6 accounts). Pchan, I assume because of his attitude to others and delusions of grandeur that make him think he's elite, let alone good, has only Mdkuser to play with and the mules they have and when it comes to VW they will not be able to do a thing is what I am saying.

kam just so you know .... that IS pchan he has 2 accounts.

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Originally Posted by Kam

You said Abyssea sucked and was trash, then I saw you come back and spend 24/7 in Abyssea with 4 mule accounts between you and your friend. While I agree that the VW drops available now aren't enough motivation to get into it, post patch you're flat out wrong. There are tons of pieces that are clearly VW drops and it will be laughable to see you unable to obtain them with your only one friend and 4 mules you need to kill anything (yes, I have watched you, you never do anything without MNK THF WHM RDM BLM BRD rofl).

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Post patch drops suck. Which are you considering as decent ? I'm only interested in MNK and WHM personnally. I saw a neck with att and kick attack damage + however there are two sources that contradict each other, one putting monk on the job list and not the other one. The vast majority of seems to be flat out fail. The gear we do know will come from VW (+synergy) are the ones with HQ version and the best I saw was a head gear for 3 jobs and a body with a wierd spelling "pdt -8% and converts damage to TP+14%". I've seen an update saying it reads converts damage to TP +14 and only for the HQ while the NQ has +10 I think. What does this means ? It's probably crap not even worth macroing. I don't see SE giving melee a body that converts 14% of the damage taken to real TP, it would mean getting hit with 400 damage gets you 56 TP ...

Also, I'm not sure why you are angry at mdk and me (like gokku and the BG butthurt crowd), but It's common knowledge that all VNMs are right now 6-able. I know BG like to kill big NMs since back to dragon's aery era and it made them feel superior but hey it's over and VW is definitely not hard nor on the same scale as say einherjar as far as skill goes. The next VU will make the current ones jokes for one and the next paths will probably be easily farmable. Problem is there is no real reason to do it. This is the first boomerang from the monopolity of abyssea. Voidwatch has been designed is 1 day.

But maybe you can develop on what you think will be good gear from voidwatch ?

Also no our jobs setup are typically

verex2 MNK, relic + daurdabla brd, daurdabla brd, RDM, WHM. For VW we use SMN instead of RDM. We used to use THF but I facepalmed on TH3+ being a complete joke.

EDIT : yes you can probably find something decent for some job (I saw cure pot gear for non WHM). However until whm doesn't have monopolity on cure 5 all other cure jobs will suck. We all know what it means when SE say they want to specify SCH or RDM in a different way than WHM. It means that for the rest of the game life SCH and RDM will not be useful, that noone will want to go out of their way to farm gear for them, and that abyssea gear will prevail and keep WHM number one. Give RDM cure V then we can discuss about voidwatch gear not sucking.

I'd bother to copy pasta all the good, blatantly obvious, VW gear if I thought it would mean anything to you but let's face it, your mind is set and you're gonna be angry and shallow minded about it til you NEED the gear, EXACTLY like Abyssea. Am I wrong?

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Originally Posted by Gokku

kam just so you know .... that IS pchan he has 2 accounts.

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If by 2 you mean 3-4. I know exactly who and how pchan is, everyone is WRONG and gimp til he has to face the facts and obtain said gear.

So what gear do you think is awesome, or even decent, please tell us. I think you have no clue yourself and that you are a sheep that follows what your LS leaders tell you to do. You know, old dynamis, old HNMs, I bet you were doing that at 75 w. This reminds me of the people that farmed ixion cerberus or khimaira at 75, and TBH, I think SE released VW for this kind of people. Only crap drops and at best a one million item to split between 10.

Toci's Harness Rare Exclusive
Body
DEF:60 STR+13 DEX+13 Accuracy+10
Attack+10 "Double Attack"+3%
Sphere: Haste+2%
Set: "Triple Attack"+3%
Lv95 MNK THF BST RNG NIN BLU COR PUP DNC

Heka's Kalasiris Rare Exclusive
Body
DEF:51 MND+17 "Cure" potency +15%
"Cure" spellcasting time -15%
Adds "Refresh" effect
Sphere: Enhances "Fast Cast" effect
Set: Adds improved "Refresh" effect
Lv95 WHM BLM RDM BRD SMN PUP SCH

Mekira Meikogai Rare Exclusive
Body
DEF:70 VIT+17 Damage taken -8%
Converts physical damage taken to TP +14
Sphere: "Double Attack"+3%
Set: Haste+8%
Lv95 WAR PLD DRK BST SAM DRG

There will be a R/Ex version of this with much higher stats (HQ is STR+16 Attack+30):
Mekira-oto
Head
DEF:40 STR+15 Attack+25
Elemental weapon skill damage
increases depending on day
Set: Haste+8%
Lv95 WAR PLD DRK BST SAM DRG

Just a few examples of what we KNOW will drop from VW before it's added. This is where you excuse yourself from getting most of it because you only play MNK and THF and claim WAR SAM etc are pointless, when the truth is that you don't play them because you can't obtain the gear.

Oh and as for current VW drops the body pieces for mages is the best for Enhancing Magic, the best nuking body for RDM inside Abyssea and most likely outside because of the accuracy (inb4 RDM is now useless etc). Keep excusing yourself from needing the best gear Pchan, it makes you look awesome.

You said it RDM is useless so thanks for explaining the arguments before I mention them. Why would I care about nuking on RDM when I could level BLM get full AF3+2 in ~2 days and be better at pretty much anything except refreshing ?

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Toci's Harness Rare Exclusive
Body
DEF:60 STR+13 DEX+13 Accuracy+10
Attack+10 "Double Attack"+3%
Sphere: Haste+2%
Set: "Triple Attack"+3%
Lv95 MNK THF BST RNG NIN BLU COR PUP DNC

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For monk this body doesn't stand a chance against AF3+2 wether WS or melee. You never wondered why SE put 15 str and 15 attack as well as 15 accuracy on AF3+2 and this body is inferior in all those stats ? Nevermind the increase impetus part or the MA art decrease !

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Mekira Meikogai Rare Exclusive
Body
DEF:70 VIT+17 Damage taken -8%
Converts physical damage taken to TP +14
Sphere: "Double Attack"+3%
Set: Haste+8%
Lv95 WAR PLD DRK BST SAM DRG

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There are better -dt bodies and I'm putting money on the "convert damage" capping at 100 damage taken. Crap. It doesn't even have melee stats on it so it's a macro only. Until someone shows what it does I'd like to know how you can conclude it's awesome.

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There will be a R/Ex version of this with much higher stats (HQ is STR+16 Attack+30):
Mekira-oto
Head
DEF:40 STR+15 Attack+25
Elemental weapon skill damage
increases depending on day
Set: Haste+8%
Lv95 WAR PLD DRK BST SAM DRG

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I suppose you won't use it for elemental damage ? Correct me if I'm wrong but ukko's is 2 hit so double attack or crit hit rate work fully on all hit. AF3+2 head is

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STR+8 VIT+8 Accuracy+14 Attack+14 Critical hit rate +3% "Double Attack"+4%

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is lacking 7 str and 11 attack. Due to the very high base damage on the empy, and high mods, 7 str is essentially crap as boost :
base (131) + fstr (14) + 0.85*0.6*150=221.5 base WSC. Adding 7 str is a boost of 1.5% in damage. 10 attack on WAR mean almost nothing, I mean berserk RCB etc exist. Now assume the 10 attack are still usefull and that with the few attack you get from the 7 str difference you manage to reach +1% per 4 attack, you get maybe +3% damage from the attack.

so this body is ~ +4.5% damage compared to an AF3+2 head with no crit or DA.
DA can proc on both hits equally, crit too. 3% crit is about +3% damage already. +4% DA rate is a bit less than 4% : if you ws with 30% DA already, which is likely, that's 3% boost.

conclusion : AF3+2 head is better than this crap by about 1.5%... And I didn't count the accuracy boost that will happen for the second hit...

=> AF3+2 or bust.

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Lv95 WAR PLD DRK BST SAM DRG

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good - bad -bad - bad - bad - bad. kay ?

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when the truth is that you don't play them because you can't obtain the gear.

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The truth is that the gear sucks and that noone does it.

1. That first body is the best Mercy Stroke and Rudra's Storm body outside Abyssea, no SA or TA because I know you're not going to try and pretend THF stacks them often in 2011. Among, I'm sure, other uses.
2. Really? Please show me either a PDT or MDT body for Warrior or Paladin with higher than 8%, not forgetting that Retaliation tanking this should produce ridiculous amounts of TP and therefore be the best DD body also, despite the lack of any other melee stats.
3. I posted it mostly for SAM, I guess you can write that off as an irrelevant job if you like, I'll give you that one.
4. RDM is still the best Salvage healer, for example, while YOU may have capped Salvage gear that doesn't make you right.

I'll continue this argument after the patch when we find out which other pieces are from Voidwatch.

1) THF is not a DD, it's there to poke TH, look @ my RDM comments (and in case of VW, facepalm)
2) PLD body is better because of +HP... WAR don't care about pdt, if they would they should also not use their stance nor berserk or agressor for instance. WAR is there for DD, if they take too much damage switch to monk.
3) SAM look at RDM
4) Wait so because RDM is helpful 20 min into salvage we should be farming 60 NMs to farm outdated gear because SE once decided to put salvage gear to trash ?

If SE decides tomorrow to actually fix THF ( Bully is their fix so far lol) or RDM ( cure V, we don't get it yet, we got a rdm melee spell essentially worthless), pld (still sucks, including voidwatch, pld needs damage +) then maybe we can discuss. It's not me saying that I don't like the jobs so that I don't farm the gear. It's me saying that you will never find anyone willing to spent their playtime upgrading jobs that SE purposely decided to make gimp at something. In the case of thf and sam it is gimp at DD and in the case of rdm it is gimp at healing. If tomorrow SE decides to release gear in voidwatch that is an improvement for the top 6 jobs, then we can discuss? I'm sorry it's not the case atm.

WHM is an overpowered mage job = the reality of the game.
2 DDs not sucking = reality of the game
THF being a TH whore = reality.

PS : this is me talking like this on RDM, even though my level 75 RDM had extremely good gear. SE destroyed RDM.. There was a time where duoing THF + RDM was pretty productive in many thing. Due to TH3+ sucking a basic MNK/NIN+WHM/THF is a lot better.