The real problem with PLD

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Paladin isn't the best at staying alive solo =/. I've solo tanked plenty, on trash NMs where it's feasible to do. But if we're talking about trash NMs, plenty of jobs can stay alive and keep hate better than Paladin.

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I agreed with you before but, you've lost all creditability with this paragraph alone. Nobody has to play the way you think is right.

I've solo tanked HNM like Sarameya, Cerberus, Fafnir, Nidhogg, Tiamat, Tinnin and the list goes on. That's low man party before the cap was increased to 80. So whose you to say the most ideal way to play? I'm sure your way works fine but, know there is sometimes more than one way to solving a given problem. You know about Trick Attack right?

You're fixed on co-op play and that is fine, but pld should be first choice on the list when it comes to tanking. Not second, not temporally.

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Paladin is not the best job in the game at staying alive solo-tanking with support, or even staying alive solo. Paladin is not the best job in the game at generating hate on NMs weaker than X/Y/Z.

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I'm not fixed on anything. But I do know that co-op tanking is exponentially more effective and feasible than solo tanking on anything that is difficult. Paladin does not need the ability to tank weak monsters better. Every other job in the game can already do that, better than Pld can, and no Enmity "fix" is going to do anything but force people to never bring Paladins to weak NMs to avoid the frustration, and provide no benefit to any Paladin tanking a difficult monster with a co-tank.

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@ Greatguardian

Contradicting yourself much? I've already made my point clear, and I've agreed with you on a few things. However...The majority of your claims is false.

i agree with andrien completely :x

Contradicting where and which claims are false?

Monk is a better tank-with-support (taking less damage than any non-Ochain Pld) on anything weaker than the solo-tank-efficiency boundary, Red Mage is a better solo tank without support. There. Two jobs that can survive better than Paladin. Falsehoods where?

Anything that's a stronger DD than Paladin is a better hate-generator on anything weaker than the solo-tank-efficiency boundary. Why? Because all of those abilities you mentioned earlier only generate VE. Paladin has to deal damage, cure, or Flash if they want to build CE, which can't be done nearly as quickly as jobs that can generate more damage. Again, falsehoods where?

Or are you claiming now that tanking in pairs is not exponentially more efficient than solo tanking on hard NMs?

This is what i see, yeah the paladin generates whatever the hell types of hate your talking about
but it doesnt do any good inside abyssea when the monk spams V smite every 20~ seconds

what i see is alot of you SHOOTING down ideas rather than actually contributing to the thread and thinking of tools to use

obviously SE has problems of thinking for themselves, the past few updates to "fix" paladin have shown us so

so rather than shooting down ideas how bout contributing some broski?

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Originally Posted by Dawnn

This is what i see, yeah the paladin generates whatever the hell types of hate your talking about

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Leave this discussion right now and go educate yourself: http://kanican.livejournal.com/13848.html

You'll have a better chance of being taken seriously if you possess a thorough understanding of the mechanics involved in tanking.

i know CE and VE just dont feel like creating a lengthy post -.-

Contributed plenty, broski. Not my fault you haven't seen any in your 24 posts. I don't need to repeat myself every single time someone posts the same, rehashed, proven-useless-a-million-times Provoke bullcrap. If you look up my profile, the only two threads I've ever created have probably contributed more information surrounding the Paladin class than the entire rest of the Paladin subforum combined. And by probably I mean definitely.

Enmity caps, bro. Monk can cap hate in 30 seconds (in Abyssea). Paladin in 45 (in Abyssea). What's the difference after 45 seconds? Nada. Aside from the fact that Monk (in Abyssea) takes less damage, deals more damage, and actually benefits from the monster facing them (Counters, those deal a ton of damage). Who cares about Abyssea anyways? Paladin is never going to be good there, and that's fine. Abyssea is one event, that's already over with. People really need to get over that.

Paladin is perfectly fine and needed in Voidwatch. And it will continue to be such in future overworld content, from the looks of things. There's not really that much that needs fixing outside.

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Originally Posted by Unleashhell

Go to some other forums if you feel the need for post count+1 with nothing but negative feedback.

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said that to you great, apparently im not the only one who sees your negativity :3