Adjustments to Embrava and Perfect Defense

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Originally Posted by Kincard

Actually, his translation is pretty accurate to the original JP post. I'm sure Camate is feeling just as bamboozled needing to translate it as we are needing to read it.

In context, it was more of a "We think it's okay if we make content that can't be beaten [by you]." The original post was made in response to someone.

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I saw the other translation. And understand what was actually meant. Still funny tho.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Of course, that's not the case, but the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.

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Only if taking a loss to said content is required to initiate a cutscene or other story event.

In any other case it should not be accepted.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Of course, that's not the case, but the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.

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I think this has been obvious ever since Absolute Virtue, but the question is: why? Why is the dev team wasting time creating content they think is impossible when they are already overworked and players are already fed up? In what world is this a sane use of resources?

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Originally Posted by Camate

When it comes to content like Legion and Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey floor 100, they were designed to be difficult without very good gear and a high skill level. As a result, those players who do not meet a certain level will have trouble clearing this content; however, that is the context of their difficulty. The development team believes that the rewards obtainable from such difficult content should only be available to a portion of players. (Based on the stats, not everyone will be able to possess it.)

It would be hard to call it very difficult content if just anyone was able to beat it.
(Frankly, the Hall of Mul is extremely, extremely difficult. However, we saw one group of players who went all out and challenge it and we were all relieved.)

With that said, we will not be lowering the difficulty because there are people who feel that the battle is too difficult. Instead, we would like players to collect better gear from slightly easier content, work out a battle strategies, and rise to the challenge.

Of course, because of this, there will be a need to help players gradually strengthen themselves and have a wide selection of moderate content to choose from, so we would like to do our best to fill that need.

Whether or not something is difficult varies from person to person, and this is where a lot of discrepancies arise, but when creating content we need to draw a line somewhere and balance things. We would like you all to be somewhat aware of where the lines have been drawn for highly difficult content.

*In the future, we will look into revamping the difficulty of older content when higher-tier content is added.

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Yeah ok we got, the devs are clueless, and if we all complained about nyzul that because we are all gimp haha. No word on the recent nerf of the DAT of nyzul lamps ? So I guess pre nerf winners were all super awesome players I guess ? haha. I'm sure you also think very little ppl do legion because it's "omg too hard" and it's elite. No, if you played the game you'd know that nobody does legion because the gear is subpar, and stop explaining us that farming lower tier gear is helping winning legion or nyzul - it's wrong and player can estimate damage/per/second values alot better than you. The only reason people can currently win F100 nyzul is embrava and has nothing to do with gear. Get 4 DD with 2x embrava and full AF3+2 and you are good. It's the same for legion. The entire events relies on stunning, embrava, perfect defense and brd/cor. I mean last I checked you didn't annihilate perfect defense didn't you ?

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

Ever since the announcement about the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava, there have been a lot of comments and feedback regarding content difficulty. Including comments from many of you that feel like the development team is creating content that they don't want you to beat.

Of course, that's not the case, but the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.

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A friend of mine who's fluent in both languages tells me the original JP post said they believe it's ok to make content that isn't beatable 100% of the time (Which would include luck based content). So while not completely accurate and a little better than the official translation, it's still just as bad since hardly anyone wants luck based content as shown back in the Matsui "Tell us what you want" thread.

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When it comes to content like Legion and Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey floor 100, they were designed to be difficult without very good gear and a high skill level. As a result, those players who do not meet a certain level will have trouble clearing this content; however, that is the context of their difficulty. The development team believes that the rewards obtainable from such difficult content should only be available to a portion of players. (Based on the stats, not everyone will be able to possess it.)

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Don't really agree with this design method. I think everyone should be able to obtain everything they want, just at different paces. Nothing should ever be out of reach of any player. Do you guys seriously like limiting your player base or something? Don't you, as a company, like profit and money? I have to ask, who exactly are you designing this content for? 51% or more of the player base can't possibly care THAT much about "prestige" when it comes to items...

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It would be hard to call it very difficult content if just anyone was able to beat it.
(Frankly, the Hall of Mul is extremely, extremely difficult. However, we saw one group of players who went all out and challenge it and we were all relieved.)

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It would also be hard to call it fun if almost nobody can beat it. I don't really care if some small group of people beat some difficult content. I don't care if they got nice gear or not. All I care about as a player is having something fun to do, and I'm not getting anything.

Did you remember to ask those players who beat that difficult content, if they actually had fun while doing it? Because I imagine most would be expressing feelings of frustration and annoyance. I'm sure a few might say they had fun, but I'd be pretty surprised if most/all said they did.

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With that said, we will not be lowering the difficulty because there are people who feel that the battle is too difficult. Instead, we would like players to collect better gear from slightly easier content, work out a battle strategies, and rise to the challenge.

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Only if I get to have fun in the process.

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Of course, because of this, there will be a need to help players gradually strengthen themselves and have a wide selection of moderate content to choose from, so we would like to do our best to fill that need.

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So, does this mean more content that isn't luck based and doesn't require a small army to complete? If so, then good, that's fine. But with the overall tone of this post, I'm worried the rewards will be awful from such content too...

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Whether or not something is difficult varies from person to person, and this is where a lot of discrepancies arise, but when creating content we need to draw a line somewhere and balance things. We would like you all to be somewhat aware of where the lines have been drawn for highly difficult content.

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I know it can be difficult to gather information from forums since only the displeased people ever speak up. This always makes it seem like people are never happy, and you can never be sure which party is the majority.

So here, let me help you with this. Hold regular surveys that ask your players whether they like the content or not, like they did with FF14. Surveys that we can answer to only once through our Square-Enix accounts with simple questions like "Do you like Legion?" and "Do you like the difficulty of Legion?". Then release the results so your players also know how everyone else feels. Then when everyone is on the same page we can help each other make a better game. This is game design, not rocket science. We're all aiming for a better game, not Mars.

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*In the future, we will look into revamping the difficulty of older content when higher-tier content is added.

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You guys are seriously just adding more work for yourselves with this kind of policy. Just... Do it right the first time so you can focus on more important things rather than perpetually altering content forever.

At the end of the day though, from what the developers say and what I want seem to be conflicting. It's becoming more and more apparent that this game is not for me and honestly most sane people on this earth. I think Square-Enix is heavily banking on the possibility everyone is hopelessly addicted to the game therefore it doesn't matter what they do. Fortunately I am not, so if I leave I will be gone. I don't think I'm alone on this either.

My real question is what does it take to get you to stop making terrible design decisions? Will 90% of players really have to quit before we see any real results? Did you learn absolutely nothing from the failure of FF14? I don't care if you guys have been making games for 20 years or more, sometimes designs and ideas become outdated and previous accomplishments become meaningless, and sometimes you need to just retire so you can let people who actually know how the modern industry works have a chance. 20 year old game designs and business practices just don't work anymore... You'd think that SE would've figured this out over these past 2 years with the mess of FF14 among other things.

I may be saying harsh things, but I'm not trying to be insulting either. All I'm saying is what I feel is the truth, and of course, my own personal opinion. The only thing I can truly pass on as fact is that my relationship with FF11 is soon coming to a close...

Now its clear.

How the DEV think we should play:

1-get basic gear from abbysea--> VW

2-once you have good gear you start working on the most recent contents (Nyzul) and since you got your gears you beat it.

3- do Legion and since you got good gear you win it.



Problem: there is no intermediate content. Abbyseea gear is still some of the best and very easy.

Nyzul gear is sidegrades to abbyssea and impossible.

Legion is impossible and side grades.

VW is sidegrades and easy.

What players actually do:

1. get your abbyssea gear.

2. do nyzul and pray. Gear has nothing to do with winning. Abbyssea gear is more than enough.

4. people wont try legion cause the gear is garbage compared to nyzul.

Lol.

Basically right now content is all or nothing: easy and good gear (abbyssea) or mediocre/moderately good and impossible (nyzul, legion).

The worse part is they shamlessly affirm that they tink having impossible content is ok. AV etc.

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Of course, that's not the case, but the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.

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Most of us already guessed that I'm sure, based on things like Absolute Virtue and Pandemonium Warden pre-nerf.

But to actually hear it straight from the horse's mouth is still mindblowing in a way. Like, this is what some people actually believe. Wow

that statement is a massive throw back to pre abyssea level 75 stuff, i'm just not sure i have the energy for that anymore and i know i def don't have 18 people to do content with

I'm sure they think we enjoy doing nyzul, man good thing FFXIV is coming soon. Still no word on salvage, cos at this point that's our only hope. Knowing them they will put bosses on the same scale of legion, with instant kill abilities and requiring PD. Hey gimps suck less and get better gear. Inbefore an idiot pops and asks to farm pdt gear.

So... The Dev team wants us to have a challenge. That is okay, but there is a huge difference between a challenge with adequate awards, and rending jobs useless. By changing the mechanics of the game, sure we will be challenged, but more adversely two jobs are essentially getting their best attributes taken away. I've been playing sense NA release... and this seems to happen every time we as the players find a way to use the mechanics of the game to our advantage. It saddens me greatly that the game has fallen as far as it has. Maybe it is time to get a new dev team, we have a new project manager. At the rate this team is going, unless the new expansion is something that renders everyone speechless, FFXI will fade away. There are plenty of games that one can play that are FREE that have just as good if not better customer support, Devs, and content. One of the huge advantages that FFXI has over all these other games is the history and the fan base it draws on. As several people have mentioned in this thread that the gear from the new content is not worth the risk, they are partially correct. Everyone has their own style of play, but honestly not everyone has the skill to do the events. Does this mean that those players should have to go with out the good gear? What if someone falls in with a lower skill crowd, and can't get in to a higher skill group because those who normally have the higher skills tend to stick together and not include new people. The dev team has basically just given every casual player the middle finger. WAY TO GO TEAM! This sure is how you get people to stick around and pay you money every month. Tell them "well because you don't have the skills you can't do this."

I actually... Kinda agree with them here. They don't want people to just hop out of Abyssea, Skills uncapped in full Perle/Aurore/Teal being able to win all the contents. Its just not logical or reasonable to assume. Its an MMO, with that territory comes the absolute knowledge if your ass wants anything good, You'll need to invest time in it. If you don't like investing time in the game and think you should be able to take on the world in crap-tier gear, You're in the wrong genre. Any good reasonable MMO has a gear check, Its what actually keeps people working for that next tier of gear.

Their only flaw in logic is that well, 99% of Legion armor is crap-tier, so the event is meaningless... And that Luck based content is not okay. Not even a little bit. If you get the best bros ever together and they have the best gear and communication, They should have an extremely high win rate, It should not be 50% Skill/ 50% Roll of the dice in events. Some amount of luck could be interesting, But such a severe amount of luck involved makes it unfun, and any strategy you may have come up with without the luck based factor, just becomes "ZERG ALL THE MOBS". Its simple. The more luck you include, The more Simple the Strategies become, Hence, Zergs on ADL and the Zergs/Rush in NNI.

If you throw in a "F*ck you" Button to a mob, People will adapt the strategy "Kill it before it kills us" because dealing with the luck factor is not worth the planning, Especially when that "F*ck you" button is a 30' Range AoE Death.

Over all, Long story short, I agree with their Idea "Gear Progression Bro, Perle to Emp+2, to Phorcys!", But its kinda like going from Volume 1, Volume 3, Volume 11!!!!(BRRRRZZZT) in that regard, and while I cannot and will not say NNI Gear is "Sidegrade" because its not, Even to the Almighty Master Monk Race... Its true that Empyrean+2 Armor is very solid for most jobs. Even as a THF I still wear my Empyrean+2 Head, and my Hands and Feet still get use. I admit my Body and Legs are floating away due to Thaumus though.

I think that, The content in the future needs to include the same level of Gear checks, But a lot less luck. Content absolutely should not be doable by any group of Perle Beasts, It just shouldn't. You're investing time into an MMO, With that territory, with that Game Type, Comes the fact that there will be gear checks. If you could jump out of Abyssea in your Aurore and tackle all the content, No one would play, because it would be boring, None of the gear you were collectin would have meaning. So we have to accept that Gear Checks will keep us seeking better gear...

But again, Drop the Luck factor entirely, or at least severely reduce Lucks role in the games Future Content. Please. Its not good and we don't want or need it.

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Originally Posted by Camate

the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.

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I couldn't formulate a response to this that would not get deleted for profanity etc., so I'll come back later and edit this.

The amount of disrespect that you guys display for your customers is frankly appalling.

Problem is gear check does not exist. There is no clear gear progression post abbysssea, mostly sidegrade and situatioal gear/ If you compare level 75 cap gear to level 90 cap there was something like 25~50% improvement on gear efficiency. then suddenly crap tier upgrades from 90-99. Abbysea gear is for the most par level 85 cap gear lol and still good, while not the best.

When a universal strategy that we have employed to beat high end content is nerfed, it's natural for this type of reaction from the playerbase. Square Enix is essentially blaming us for using Perfect Defense and Embrava for the way it was intended to be used from their inception.

I find this tone from the development team distasteful and disrespectful. The game's population is overwhelmingly casual and older, so being ok with content that cannot be beaten and/or exceedingly difficult is, in my opinion, the wrong direction.

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Originally Posted by Camate

When it comes to content like Legion and Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey floor 100, they were designed to be difficult without very good gear and a high skill level. As a result, those players who do not meet a certain level will have trouble clearing this content; however, that is the context of their difficulty. The development team believes that the rewards obtainable from such difficult content should only be available to a portion of players. (Based on the stats, not everyone will be able to possess it.)

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If this is the case, why is so much of the stuff from Legion so useless?

That's not to say there aren't a few great things falling out of the Hall of Mul, but even there, there's also some junk.

Meh, Seekers of Adoulin will come out with gear that will be on par with Nyzul Uncharted/Legion gear anyway.

Wait. Waaaait a minute. I'm watching a sharp decrease in subscribers right now. No, I'm serious, it's actually happening. You might want to make some Intermediate content between Abyssea/Voidwatch and Legion/Nyzul Uncharted. ASAP.

and no, Arch-Omega/Ultima & Arch-Odin don't really count as intermediate. <_<

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,


Of course, that's not the case, but the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.

balance

*In the future, we will look into revamping the difficulty of older content when higher-tier content is added.

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Anyone else feel the need to Google Translate Camate's Google translation?

Also speaking of things that cannot be accomplished, 110 goldsmithing says 'Hi'

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

Ever since the announcement about the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava, there have been a lot of comments and feedback regarding content difficulty. Including comments from many of you that feel like the development team is creating content that they don't want you to beat.

Of course, that's not the case, but the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.

When it comes to content like Legion and Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey floor 100, they were designed to be difficult without very good gear and a high skill level. As a result, those players who do not meet a certain level will have trouble clearing this content; however, that is the context of their difficulty. The development team believes that the rewards obtainable from such difficult content should only be available to a portion of players. (Based on the stats, not everyone will be able to possess it.)

It would be hard to call it very difficult content if just anyone was able to beat it.
(Frankly, the Hall of Mul is extremely, extremely difficult. However, we saw one group of players who went all out and challenge it and we were all relieved.)

With that said, we will not be lowering the difficulty because there are people who feel that the battle is too difficult. Instead, we would like players to collect better gear from slightly easier content, work out a battle strategies, and rise to the challenge.

Of course, because of this, there will be a need to help players gradually strengthen themselves and have a wide selection of moderate content to choose from, so we would like to do our best to fill that need.

Whether or not something is difficult varies from person to person, and this is where a lot of discrepancies arise, but when creating content we need to draw a line somewhere and balance things. We would like you all to be somewhat aware of where the lines have been drawn for highly difficult content.

*In the future, we will look into revamping the difficulty of older content when higher-tier content is added.

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We have gotten to wave 3 of Botolus rex and Iga lima several times. So far the loot we got was not that good, most of us just get points to sell the items from Legion npc since there really is nothing that game breaking in Legion. In my personal opinion if this is gonna be tough then atleast make it drop items that are actually worth it.

Hope the devs realize they need to create content faster then the current snails pace if they expect to maintain a base of subscribers beyond the incredibly small cluster of people they are apparently catering end game events too. Like others said, there is no middle ground. It's pretty astounding how well the devs screw up in the eyes of their player base, and so consistently. I mean, why is there such a limit on meebles? Its a 15 minute event ffs, why can you only do it so infrequently? How long do you expect people to do VW and abyssea? A lot of people I know have fully geared upwards of 5-6 jobs by now through that content. People are leveling jobs they dont even want to play just to try Legion and Neo Nyzul because it's so restrictive strategically. Essentially, wtf are people supposed to do otherwise?

And btw, we have 18+ skilled and well geared people showing up for legion every week, and its still a ridiculously unforgiving event. There is a difference between challenging and arbitrarily difficult, and legion and neo nyzul both fall into the latter.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Most of us already guessed that I'm sure, based on things like Absolute Virtue and Pandemonium Warden pre-nerf.

But to actually hear it straight from the horse's mouth is still mindblowing in a way. Like, this is what some people actually believe. Wow

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You know impossible to beat mobs exsist in other games, HOWEVER the only point in trying (and possibly succeeding) is purely for bragging rights, that said those types of mobs rarely have good drops, THEY ARE PURELY FOR CHALLENGE making impossible to beat content with rewards is ASININE.

I had been floundering on whether to actually quit quit or just log in every now and then but this really peeved me off, my LOWMAN linkshell has fallen apart due to RL, now i find out that shit is impossible not because of poor design but because of acceptable poor design choices -.- i'm out.

Simple changes to NNI that would make it take longer to obtain while still giving players a good feeling of progress:

Clear floor 20 = NQ gear
NQ gear and KI from level 40 clear = +1
+1 and KI from level 60 clear = +2
And so on.
I just came up with a legit reason to waste time getting the NQ/+1/+2/+3 versions of NNI gear. Because let's face it people aren't looking at those sets and seeing "if I get those getting higher clears will be easier" because NNI is reliant heavily on luck far more than skill or gear.

Bump the time to 45 minutes or just increase the jump range to something like 5-9 and that heavily reliant on luck factor gets toned down and allows for skill/gear to make a bigger difference.

As to legion if you want it to reward the most hardcore players then maybe if you gave a body like this:

DEF:70 STR+16 Attack+5%
"Mag. Atk."+7 "Store TP"+6 "Dbl. Atk."+3
Increases weapon skill damage
Set: Increases STR, VIT, INT, MND

Instead of this:

DEF:79 HP+50 MP+50 STR+13
VIT+13 Attack+23 Damage taken -7%
Magic Defense Bonus+5~6

You just killed off Phorcys korazin but getting that is easier than clearing Legion so it becomes a stepping stone to epic gear. At that point there might be a large enough desire to spam legion. I mean Huginn haubert isn't even a side-grade for anything.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Instead, we would like players to collect better gear from slightly easier content [/COLOR]

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Waste hours getting gear just so we have a chance to waste hours replacing it? What a way to waste time.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Of course, that's not the case, but the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.

We would like you all to be somewhat aware of where the lines have been drawn for highly difficult content.

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What is the point in drawing a line if nobody can reach it? Oh yeah...SEs proverbial stick and carrot. Good to know SE is in the business of creating content that nobody can beat and can't implement simple things such as non-augmented relic tickets. Way to focus your energy where it's needed.

Nothing personal against you, Camate but it seems like every dev response we get lately is an excuse on why they can't let their player base have fun and feel the need to make everything so mind-numbingly dull and miserable to complete.

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Originally Posted by OniHavoc

Waste hours getting gear just so we have a chance to waste hours replacing it? What a way to waste time.

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What you said by definition is an MMO.

Its what you signed up for. Getting armor you'll eventually replace. Thats how it works in every MMO ever.

Are we in such a delusion state we've gone mad now and actually begin to agree with things like this? Jesus, Next thing you know people with be b*tching that this game has to be played online.

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Originally Posted by Rubicant82

So... The Dev team wants us to have a challenge. That is okay, but there is a huge difference between a challenge with adequate awards, and rending jobs useless. By changing the mechanics of the game, sure we will be challenged, but more adversely two jobs are essentially getting their best attributes taken away. I've been playing sense NA release... and this seems to happen every time we as the players find a way to use the mechanics of the game to our advantage. It saddens me greatly that the game has fallen as far as it has. Maybe it is time to get a new dev team, we have a new project manager. At the rate this team is going, unless the new expansion is something that renders everyone speechless, FFXI will fade away. There are plenty of games that one can play that are FREE that have just as good if not better customer support, Devs, and content. One of the huge advantages that FFXI has over all these other games is the history and the fan base it draws on. As several people have mentioned in this thread that the gear from the new content is not worth the risk, they are partially correct. Everyone has their own style of play, but honestly not everyone has the skill to do the events. Does this mean that those players should have to go with out the good gear? What if someone falls in with a lower skill crowd, and can't get in to a higher skill group because those who normally have the higher skills tend to stick together and not include new people. The dev team has basically just given every casual player the middle finger. WAY TO GO TEAM! This sure is how you get people to stick around and pay you money every month. Tell them "well because you don't have the skills you can't do this."

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No, they give every hardcore middle finger, not casual. It's perfectly FINE if you don't have the skill/gear to beat certain content.
Out of ALL the game content atm, only legion is harder content. Every content is for casual and very easy. So if you're casual, you got plenty of content to play with. And I'm against the idea of every content being casual, because once every content is beaten, ppl quit. There should be at least 1 content that's hard.

So why casual so unhappy? You got easy Nyzul, easy dyna, easy limbus, easy meeble, easy abyssea and easy VW. And majority of gears from those event are very good.

Why is it a problem that "lower skilled" player can't get into a "higher skill" group? It's more of fundemental mechanic of human society than game design. Irl ppl group with like minded ppl with similar background, make friends with like minded ppl too. If you're rich and educated, you make friends and work with rich and educated. If you're poor and not well educated, you make friends and work with same group of ppl too. That's just the way it goes, no matter where you are, in game or irl. If you're "lower skill crowd", want to be in "higher skill crowd" group, want them to accept you, then improve skill and become one of them? Or deal with it.

Same goes irl too, ppl like lawer, doctors don't make friends with a 7-11 cashier or street person, if you want to make friends with lawyer/doctor, try to be a lawyer/doctor, or don't make friend with them, simple.

However, the problem with harder content is that the reward isn't as attractive as easy options. If you log on to the game now, 95% of player are doing nyzul for nyzul gear, abyssea for abyssea gears, meeble for meeble gears or just farming dyna for relic. Those content is less effort with better reward. Legion is really for those who've done everything from everywhere else. And the population that really want to do it regularly, is pretty small.

This is sad, really, like a middle finger to none-casual players.

My suggestion is to add some sort of cross server group search function for 18~36 person endgame event like this, or allow ppl to team up cross server. Or just straight add super epic reward in legion to keep ppl around, so ppl don't just quit and left the group when they got Mul clear. Atm there are like 0 incentives for ppl to keep doing Mul after clear depending on your job.

I love this debate SE has with it's player base.

Catering to only one type of player divides your player base making the game a little less social and the ones you excluded one step closer to quitting.

Honestly, there really is no harm in making different difficultly mode for different events so that we can all play the small amount of new content you put out each month.

Example...
Easy mode NNI (random 5-15 jump but floor 100 doesn't give KI (so only drops 1-3 random peices))
Easy mode(12 man) Legion (mob lose 50% hp and drops rates are halved)

Really, it isn't that hard and it's a nice way for newer player to get to learn events and eventually get to the more rewarding hard mode and of course the hardcore players still get everything first cause they started on hard mode.

Either way, whatever, if you wanna split content into casual/hardcore i'm sure each player base loves paying $70 for the one peice of content you give because you've decided it's ok to excluded them. /longsigh

as a side note : it was fine to exclude player when SE acully added things like
Campaign at the same time as Fomor kings
New jobs/Missions at the same time as Dyna/Limbus/Salvage
because there was always something to do but now when content comes out lets hope SE decide your the lucky one that it's designed for or you'll have another 3 month+ wait to the next peice.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

Ever since the announcement about the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava, there have been a lot of comments and feedback regarding content difficulty. Including comments from many of you that feel like the development team is creating content that they don't want you to beat.

Of course, that's not the case, but the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.

When it comes to content like Legion and Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey floor 100, they were designed to be difficult without very good gear and a high skill level. As a result, those players who do not meet a certain level will have trouble clearing this content; however, that is the context of their difficulty. The development team believes that the rewards obtainable from such difficult content should only be available to a portion of players. (Based on the stats, not everyone will be able to possess it.)

It would be hard to call it very difficult content if just anyone was able to beat it.
(Frankly, the Hall of Mul is extremely, extremely difficult. However, we saw one group of players who went all out and challenge it and we were all relieved.)

With that said, we will not be lowering the difficulty because there are people who feel that the battle is too difficult. Instead, we would like players to collect better gear from slightly easier content, work out a battle strategies, and rise to the challenge.

Of course, because of this, there will be a need to help players gradually strengthen themselves and have a wide selection of moderate content to choose from, so we would like to do our best to fill that need.

Whether or not something is difficult varies from person to person, and this is where a lot of discrepancies arise, but when creating content we need to draw a line somewhere and balance things. We would like you all to be somewhat aware of where the lines have been drawn for highly difficult content.

*In the future, we will look into revamping the difficulty of older content when higher-tier content is added.

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Another Lightning rod has arrived.

> "very good gear and a high skill level"
Is part of that "very good gear" third-party programs is part of that "skill" the ability, willingness, and proficiency in using them?

> You are aware it is a difficult event and also aware of how one needs to win.
Meaning get windower use bots or get the fuck out of OUR game, if you wish to play like a pussy you then must learn Japanese move to Japan and play on a ps2 so you don't waste the precious resources of the NA & EU servers.

I also have a couple questions for the Dev's:

1. Is Windower in fact since you seem to not only be aware (hell most posters here blatantly show it off in their signatures! and a good number have entered the MH contest) but allow it now rather then just sweep it under a rug. So does this mean that now is Windower allowed to be used? and with that is it an absolute necessity in order to be "The best with the best gear"? and what about bots? there's even more than there used to be now, RMT FC's...RMT thats another, sure you nerfed the chocobo blinkers which greatly upset many players, but very quickly the RMT FC's came back around with even more gil laundering!

2. What is the concept of "having fun" in this game? from what I seen its content denile, harassment, and making entire topics on your favorite forum dedicated to calling out the "Gimp & wtf" players. To make anyone not the the holier than thou lords and masters quit because they are a waste of resources.

Non-Windower players have no place in Neo-Nyzul -- and it appears Camate is admitting this.

Bring RMT onto the table. Is the entire existence of the STF, then, a farce designed to, as 2.1 does, hold back players with morals and a conscience from any degree of reasoned success in the game?

Hence: Should RMT, on a limited scale, be legal?

It's clearly how some of these players not only advance, but also make a good coin RL, in the game.

It is refreshing to see Camate admit effectively (whether he admits to the admission) what I've believed (and have also believed farcical): That it is acceptable (and I believe it being done) to make content designed to be effectively impossible under the User Agreement.

Now, the question: Is the User Agreement simply an Animal Farm scenario? All are equal, some more equal than others?

Don't worry, I know what the out come of this will be, your buddies at BG will laugh and circle jerk at my "pitiful" attempt to crusade or whatever I guess I gave them some more lulz, right? And some of em may recognize some things I have copypasta'd here too.

I know a ban from here is likely and quite frankly I don't care, I only came here to put my 2 cents in.

Also Camate....do you realize BG is nothing but backstabbing? Though you kissed and patted their butts during the Vanafest they still continue to denounce most things you say that they do not agree with? and no doubt called you a gimp player cause of your gear during those little test server events? along with saying you have no clue how to play the "proper" way?


Want this whole statement in a nutshell? What is a legitimate player? because I forgot it.

So long and good night.

Well, its nice to see the bald faced contempt the devs have for their playerbase. Emulating the success of Abyssea? Perish the thought. Lets make new content so difficult people will quit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Camate

The development team believes that the rewards obtainable from such difficult content should only be available to a portion of players. (Based on the stats, not everyone will be able to possess it.)

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Summary
To the all the people that paid for new content, sorry but it's designed to exclude 80% of our paying customers, but please wait 3 months and hope we include you next time.

Least it's nice for the dev team to come out and say that they will do w/e they please with our money rather than, lie or design content that everyone can enjoy.

And this all happens after XIV 1.0 goes down. Anyone see a pattern here?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

Honestly, there really is no harm in making different difficultly mode for different events so that we can all play the small amount of new content you put out each month.

Example...
Easy mode NNI (random 5-15 jump but floor 100 doesn't give KI (so only drops 1-3 random peices))
Easy mode(12 man) Legion (mob lose 50% hp and drops rates are halved)

Really, it isn't that hard and it's a nice way for newer player to get to learn events and eventually get to the more rewarding hard mode and of course the hardcore players still get everything first cause they started on hard mode.

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No, we can't have this. Instead, let's make things as inaccessible and frustrating as possible. We don't want future events turning out like...Abyssea. What a mistake that was.

You want to hear a funny thing, though a TRUE fact ? In my LS we are 2 players, we both have an afterglow weapon that we farmed with umbral marrows. I'm going to tell this to the dev team. Getting ourself enough marrows for an afterglow verethragna cost us 120 marrows which is 5 weeks. Now, do you think you guys have built legion system or nyzul gear so that people can get it in 5 weeks ? I'm farily sur you think it's close to impossible to get, well sorry, for us, it was clearly easier and faster than grinding 5x25 floor 80 or the bullshit event that legion is (gather 18 people several times a day to get fail drops). I mean while the losers get their arise or meteor scrolls (5 millions to split into 18), I'm getting 5 marrows which I will split in 2 for 45 millions.

If you want to look credible, I challenge you to entirely remove perfect defense from the game, and realise that none of the content you release is based on skill or gear. unlike what you pretend. I mean you already pretended when you released NNI that getting to F100 would be extremely rare (do you even check your statistics?) and that the correct way would be F80 gear spam... What did players do ?

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Originally Posted by Hashmalum

I think this has been obvious ever since Absolute Virtue, but the question is: why? Why is the dev team wasting time creating content they think is impossible when they are already overworked and players are already fed up? In what world is this a sane use of resources?

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Er, but AV WAS beaten, eventually.

I don't see a problem here, adding content that can't be 'beaten' TODAY, being there when players are geared up through content to be released over time.

And to those alluding to the resources SE devote to creating such content being wasted, well, yeah, I'm sure many players could say that about content THEY can't aspire to completing for various reasons. Given these resources are likely pretty minor in the great scheme of things, that's not an argument worth worrying about IMO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

Ever since the announcement about the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava, there have been a lot of comments and feedback regarding content difficulty. Including comments from many of you that feel like the development team is creating content that they don't want you to beat.

Of course, that's not the case, but the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.

When it comes to content like Legion and Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey floor 100, they were designed to be difficult without very good gear and a high skill level. As a result, those players who do not meet a certain level will have trouble clearing this content; however, that is the context of their difficulty. The development team believes that the rewards obtainable from such difficult content should only be available to a portion of players. (Based on the stats, not everyone will be able to possess it.)

It would be hard to call it very difficult content if just anyone was able to beat it.
(Frankly, the Hall of Mul is extremely, extremely difficult. However, we saw one group of players who went all out and challenge it and we were all relieved.)

With that said, we will not be lowering the difficulty because there are people who feel that the battle is too difficult. Instead, we would like players to collect better gear from slightly easier content, work out a battle strategies, and rise to the challenge.

Of course, because of this, there will be a need to help players gradually strengthen themselves and have a wide selection of moderate content to choose from, so we would like to do our best to fill that need.

Whether or not something is difficult varies from person to person, and this is where a lot of discrepancies arise, but when creating content we need to draw a line somewhere and balance things. We would like you all to be somewhat aware of where the lines have been drawn for highly difficult content.

*In the future, we will look into revamping the difficulty of older content when higher-tier content is added.

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This is my first post, so go easy on me, but here are my thoughts on this matter.

Camate, you have to tell the developers of this game to stop changing things in a negative way after content has been released and has been around for a long time. I'll give you an analogy, and hopefully one that the dev's understand since baseball is a popular sport in Japan: what they do to the player base would be like what a bad umpire does in baseball to a pitcher. The Ump. (the dev's), would establish a strike zone early in the game, and the pitchers (us) would get used to it, no matter how weird that strike zone was. However, after about the 5th inning, for no logical reason, the umpire would randomly change the strike zone and expect the pitcher to adapt just to make the game more to the ump's liking. If you've ever watched baseball, you know what would happen: pitchers would get angry, fans would get angry, managers would get angry and get tossed, all because the umpire didn't leave strike zone the the way it was.

I mean, if they want to make things difficult and not revamp them, fine, let them be obtuse in that way. But to keep changing the rules after they determine too many people are finishing content at a faster pace than they intended (embrava and PD nerf for neo-nyzul and ADL, respectively), well, it's like an umpire changing a strike zone mid-way through a game. It makes no one happy, and it's really not a smart thing to do.

Basically, the devs need to establish rules, keep them consistent, and if anything, make things easier over time. Not make things more difficult once the player base has figured out how to beat something efficiently. That's just unacceptable.

LMAO the developer response is insanely hilarious..... Basically a big middle finger to all who play and pay the game. At least it is targeted to the hardcore crowd, and the fact that the gears are mostly sidegears, it makes it all the better for the casual crowds. As long as they focus on creating content that is targeted to the casual players, I don't really care about the other hilariously difficult content designed not to be beaten unless you are a total addict and have no life. Let them eat their cake and have at it. Though this ill omen does not bode well, if this is how their vision for FFXI, the only decision we have left is to vote with our action, and just take a good 3-4 months break every now and then. When you come back there will be enough content that last you another 3-4 months before you are due for another break.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

Ever since the announcement about the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava, there have been a lot of comments and feedback regarding content difficulty. Including comments from many of you that feel like the development team is creating content that they don't want you to beat.

Of course, that's not the case, but the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.

When it comes to content like Legion and Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey floor 100, they were designed to be difficult without very good gear and a high skill level. As a result, those players who do not meet a certain level will have trouble clearing this content; however, that is the context of their difficulty. The development team believes that the rewards obtainable from such difficult content should only be available to a portion of players. (Based on the stats, not everyone will be able to possess it.)

It would be hard to call it very difficult content if just anyone was able to beat it.
(Frankly, the Hall of Mul is extremely, extremely difficult. However, we saw one group of players who went all out and challenge it and we were all relieved.)

With that said, we will not be lowering the difficulty because there are people who feel that the battle is too difficult. Instead, we would like players to collect better gear from slightly easier content, work out a battle strategies, and rise to the challenge.

Of course, because of this, there will be a need to help players gradually strengthen themselves and have a wide selection of moderate content to choose from, so we would like to do our best to fill that need.

Whether or not something is difficult varies from person to person, and this is where a lot of discrepancies arise, but when creating content we need to draw a line somewhere and balance things. We would like you all to be somewhat aware of where the lines have been drawn for highly difficult content.

*In the future, we will look into revamping the difficulty of older content when higher-tier content is added.

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Camate I know your just the messenger so I won't get angry with you.

Tell the developers they can take their ideas and shove them up their rear end.

They just said the absolute worst thing you can possibly say to your paying customers. That they heard us and decided it didn't matter and they weren't listening. Be prepared for a massive exodus of players after a statement like that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seyomeyo

And this all happens after XIV 1.0 goes down. Anyone see a pattern here?

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How can you see a pattern in something that has only happened once?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Camate

Whether or not something is difficult varies from person to person, and this is where a lot of discrepancies arise, but when creating content we need to draw a line somewhere and balance things. We would like you all to be somewhat aware of where the lines have been drawn for highly difficult content.]

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HOLY SHIT are you kidding me, do you even understand what balance is? I've spent a long time getting the best gear for summoner, getting my skills capped for both my main and my sub, but do you think i'll get invited to neo nyzul? NOT A CHANCE nobody wants summoner for it. Unless i go with one of the "few" select jobs i will never see it nor most of your new "end game" stuff.
I've spent my time getting gear skilling up so i should fit your criteria for being able to get this mythical "Only the few should have" which in itself is wrong, we all pay the same fee to play this game so why do you want us to be divided into those who should get and those who shouldn't?

Right now your making other MMO's more appealing by the second with bullshit like this.

Quote:

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Right now your making other MMO's more appealing by the second with bullshit like this.

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If this is their mentality with the next expansion, I expect a large portion of the player base to move on. Most are already just kinda doing random stuff while waiting for the expansion, hoping SE changes.

Developers,

Abyssea was the best thing for 80%+ of your player base. There is a small percentage who hated how it made stuff available to everyone, but that small percentage is now that's keeping your lights on.