Current Empy 95 Price

Nope, SE purposely gave an unreaonnable about of plates for a mediocre upgrade, so they won't change it. Worst case is 0.1% of the playerbase has a weapon that is 1% stronger lol...

And I really hate to say this but pics or it didn't happen with the duo dynamis 300-600 coins claims. That's a pretty bold claim. I could believe a 300 count with a dedicated 2x emp melee /dnc duo (basically nin/dnc and thf/dnc) with no comp on mobs but 600 is damn well pushing the envelope. I'd like for it to be true, though. Gives me something to shoot for. I just don't see it with the rng and ninja mobs running about in Xarc. If it's in a different zone then by all means, I'll stfu now. My Dynamis experience ends with Xarc.

I said 2-3 people we three man and get 300+ coins regularly. I even said "We three man though so this may make up the difference." but we do it DNC/nosub DNC/nosub THF/DNC. We do CoP Dynamis only. I can give you pics if you'd like we do it regularly enough for the last few weeks that I'm scared to share our logs.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

You two come back to me when you are at your 3rd farmed relic like us. You did a few runs and present it as a given that a duo pulls 300 coins. Duo is considerably limited by proc and pulling speed as explained above. For us, 80% of the time the mob is proced in the first 10 seconds of it being being at camp, the monk in constantly killing (with a non gimp subjob and actually using his TP for DD) and the thief is constantly pulling for 2 hours minus the amount of time required to farm 5 extensions, and we only do 400 coins per run with 6. And you are explaining us that your duos pulls about as much coins which means, since duos is extremely slow for fulling, you are actually procing faster than 10 seconds. This is the internet and you can't backup your claims. Please show us a parse of your duos with an average amount of coins per mob dropped, and the amount of mobs killed, then we will discuss seriously.

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Its not a duo its a trio. We'll give logs if you'd like to see. Its sad to think that two dncs and a thf can farm timers faster than a monk and a thf/dnc we normally finish and are pulling by 12 mins in. It doesnt take that much work. Kinda sad if you're only pulling 400 coins with 6 ppl. Have you not done CoP Dyna? Also I dont know if you're banned from BG an thus cant get the strategies but its all there on how to make that much coin/hr. Our dnc's pull and proc and the thf solo kills, and gets helped when we have more than 5 proc'd mobs at came. I dont know why you're having issues looking at our logs from last night we proc'd 122 mob and we proc'd more than one a minute and we were changing camps with the hours. Will gladly start posting for you though since you're having such a hard time.

Give me your email I have it in a text file will send it when you're ready.

So some JP had 300 mil to spend and created his own supply? Solid defense of this asinine trial.

Dont see you jumping to claim the 450mil-600mil for a 75 mythic should be reduced. Or how its some grave injustice.

Cause no one has ever said that before right? This thread isn't about the stupid mythic requirement but there's about 20 threads that are. 2 wrongs ect. ect. They are both stupid but neither one is a good reason for the other to be stupid.

We need some form of solidarity instead of the this one thing needs to be fixed. Maybe if SE sees that the playerbase is aiming for more reasonable endgame rewards and we complain enough about it we might see fixes. Though tbh we're talking about SE they could still completely screw up a fix.

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Originally Posted by Staren

Dynamis with 2-3 people is an average of 300 coins a run on the low end. At around 18000 coins on the worst end thats 60 runs 2 months of work on the low end for a relic.

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Not anymore. On the JP forums SE admitted that they ninja patched the currency drop rate in COP zones to match city zones with the Oct. 4'th maintenance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Staren

We need some form of solidarity instead of the this one thing needs to be fixed. Maybe if SE sees that the playerbase is aiming for more reasonable endgame rewards and we complain enough about it we might see fixes. Though tbh we're talking about SE they could still completely screw up a fix.

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Solidarity? Most people agree that 30k alexandrite is stupid considering the supply but why would anyone talk about that here when there are 20 threads they can post in? Just because it's equally stupid doesn't mean it belongs in this thread anymore than a 1500 plates conversation belongs in the numerous alexandrite threads. Solidarity is not complaining about everything that needs to be changed in every thread about something that needs to be changed. That's just derailing.

We've gotten 300+ since the 10/04 maintenance.

Its not derailing when someone complains that mythics are easier than 95 empyreans or that relics are just as hard as them. In my opinion thats an insult and part of the reason se isnt getting the proper amount of complaints about mythics to get any change done.

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Originally Posted by Staren

We've gotten 300+ since the 10/04 maintenance.

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Yeah, I don't believe you.

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Originally Posted by Staren

Give me your email I have it in a text file will send it when you're ready.

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As if that can't be edited to show whatever you want it to.

Quote:

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We need some form of solidarity instead of the this one thing needs to be fixed. Maybe if SE sees that the playerbase is aiming for more reasonable endgame rewards and we complain enough about it we might see fixes. Though tbh we're talking about SE they could still completely screw up a fix.

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Asking for solidarity in an MMO forum is just pissing into the wind. You're not going to see that because not everyone wants the same thing. and often what people want is mutually exclusive of what somone else wants. Thus people are constantly at each other's throats. Some people want endgame to be egalitarian and fair, others want it to be a gated community that keeps out the noobs by being extremely difficult. This is how it's always been in every MMORPG ever (it was like this when I played Meridian, and later Everquest) and human nature will ensure that it always remains this way.

Imo i feel this new 1500 item for empyrean is a step back for SE :( for a few reasons.

atm the drop rate is something like 1 in 5 (inc pouchs) meaning you need to do around 7000 runs

if on a good day you get a run done in 20 min it would take you 2333 hours to complete it if say you play this game 4 hours a day on average then your looking at 583 days to complete a weapon.

Now here's the question i have for SE and i really think it's a fair one.

Do you really feel it's healthy for a player to play Final fantasy for 30 hours a week for 2 years to obtain the upgrade from 90->95 ?


Anyway i can see the reasoning SE added this

1. To force people to do Voidwatch since nearly 50% of people have an emperyan so the content would be successful

2. To balance relics/mythics with empyreans.

With the first issue SE you need to look at the rates of drops on 1 chest per person considering you feel doubling the drop rate for 18 pple on a 1 chest system is fair when it really means it's nearly 9 x harder than if it was a shared pool

Which means eventually people that miss out on the drops won't get them since 18 people don't have the time for such a low drop rate for one person.

This is all VW/WoE stuff... and really should be addressed if you want to move people out of abyssea.

With 2 and this is where i feel you have overlooked something.

If you just made Relics/Mythics stronger and easier then you'd not annoy anyone infact you'd get people to keep playing ffxi.

But by making so only 10% of the people that have empyrean will be able to upgrade to a 95 version you have annoyed 90% of the people that have existing empyreans and to some extent the 10% that will eventually make the 95s prolly wouldn't be to happy about the time they invested to complete them. since the upgrade is so weak...)

I find it insulting that you ask me to put 1-2 years into weapon i have already made to 90 in a game i have put 6 years~ into already

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Staren

Its not a duo its a trio. We'll give logs if you'd like to see. Its sad to think that two dncs and a thf can farm timers faster than a monk and a thf/dnc we normally finish and are pulling by 12 mins in. It doesnt take that much work. Kinda sad if you're only pulling 400 coins with 6 ppl. Have you not done CoP Dyna? Also I dont know if you're banned from BG an thus cant get the strategies but its all there on how to make that much coin/hr. Our dnc's pull and proc and the thf solo kills, and gets helped when we have more than 5 proc'd mobs at came. I dont know why you're having issues looking at our logs from last night we proc'd 122 mob and we proc'd more than one a minute and we were changing camps with the hours. Will gladly start posting for you though since you're having such a hard time.

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Why do you invoke BG every time you get called on the bullshit you claim ? BG startegies, really ? Dynamis has stategies ?? Pull, proc, kill lulz. All of a sudden your duo went to trio for one. For two you are saying that you proc in under a minute (which is extremely slow), because as I explained you need to proc and kill in less than 45 seconds as well as having treasure hunter 2 to get your 300 coins DUO, which is IMPOSSIBLE and is what you two claimed, so get your "facts" straight. Getting 300 coins DUO is not the same as getting 300 coins TRIO ... On top of that there are way to many issues with the CoP zones that will ruins your runs :

-- the 5th extension which randomly pops at one of the random 4 High levels beastmen camps. Crossing the zone looking for it will take up to 20 minutes.
-- BST soloers
-- other group farming
-- having to change camp due to this

Also I noticed that you laughed at my 400 coins per run with 6, probably because you think it is unefficient. Do you realise that your 3 fail jobs would pull 400 coins by doing 3 runs simultaneously on BST. There is a strategy for you and BG, be sure to post it, because apparently it was not brought yet to your knowledge that BST is the best ratio time/coins/number of jobs (and that has been the case for 6 months). The only reason for farming with more than 2 in dynamis is if you are at least dual boxing. Otherwise, BST or bust.

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

Now here's the question i have for SE and i really think it's a fair one.

Do you really feel it's healthy for a player to play Final fantasy for 30 hours a week for 2 years to obtain the upgrade from 90->95 ?

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They. Don't. Care.

But they certainly do care about keeping you paying 11.95 a month for the next 2 years. And lets be honest, you will do this.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

Not anymore. On the JP forums SE admitted that they ninja patched the currency drop rate in COP zones to match city zones with the Oct. 4'th maintenance.

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Is that true? Why do we not get this information. This JP only shit is starting to piss me off seriously. Small evidence toward this for me: did a 430 coins run before the patch, and now its 320-375 post patch, with the exact same strategy. Initially thought it was due to countercampers, but i noticed a tremendous decrease in 3x and 4x coin drops. Before patch I get 80 coins in a 20min window w/o counter campers, now i get only 60 ish.

Sorry, that post was made before we'd figured out the CoP Dynamis proc system. I pulled in 225 currency last night in Qufim, which has no good Byne monsters unless you're essentially solo in the zone. Pulling in 200~300 with 2-3 players isn't even 100 currency per hour per player though.

I pull in 200~250 every two hours with two characters and one player (me). A little over 2 mil per night on average. Toss in other random things I do for gil, and I'm making about 3mil per night average (~17-20 plates, averaging the prices I buy at). I expect supply to spike on the weekends.

Some servers have been reporting as low as 100k/plate already. Lakshmi is sitting pretty strong at 170-200k/plate.

I haven't noticed a change in coin drops.

JP reports say that the Almace hasn't changed in any hidden way. It's just base damage + Stat. I'm hoping that drops the prices.

Also, CoP Dynamis nets me a consistent 75~100 currency more than normal Dynamis did.

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Originally Posted by Staren

Dynamis with 2-3 people is an average of 300 coins a run on the low end. At around 18000 coins on the worst end thats 60 runs 2 months of work on the low end for a relic.

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From my original post in this thread. This 2-3 people was referring to the BST duo we compete against every night we farm and our group. So yes you can do 300+ coins regularly duo I just didnt take the time to spell it out for your special ed needs. I never claimed I did the zone with 2 people just that I know its possible.

I love your logic Pchan.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

On top of that there are way to many issues with the CoP zones that will ruins your runs :

-- the 5th extension which randomly pops at one of the random 4 High levels beastmen camps. Crossing the zone looking for it will take up to 20 minutes.
-- BST soloers
-- other group farming
-- having to change camp due to this

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So CoP is too hard for you to do with 1-3 people so you do a 6 man run somewhere else? If you have good players you can split up and one get the normal TE's and the other one find and kill the random in about 10 mins. I'd like to point out we do it under in 10 mins regularly with "fail" jobs too. Sorry new Dyna is Hard Mode for you. Funny how you can claim we have "fail" jobs but you're not a skilled enough group (knowing you have 6 people) to kill CoP timers in 10 mins.

And on top of that you start with saying this

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

For two you are saying that you proc in under a minute (which is extremely slow), because as I explained you need to proc and kill in less than 45 seconds as well as having treasure hunter 2 to get your 300 coins DUO, which is IMPOSSIBLE and is what you two claimed, so get your "facts" straight. Getting 300 coins DUO is not the same as getting 300 coins TRIO

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And then go to this

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Also I noticed that you laughed at my 400 coins per run with 6, probably because you think it is unefficient. Do you realise that your 3 fail jobs would pull 400 coins by doing 3 runs simultaneously on BST. There is a strategy for you and BG, be sure to post it, because apparently it was not brought yet to your knowledge that BST is the best ratio time/coins/number of jobs (and that has been the case for 6 months). The only reason for farming with more than 2 in dynamis is if you are at least dual boxing. Otherwise, BST or bust.

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So you admit that its possible to duo 300+ coins with beastmasters in CoP but you also say its impossible for a duo to get 300+ coins in the same breath. Also you say solo/duo beast is more efficient but you farm 400 coins with 6 people anyways? Why because you like wasting time? We're a low man group we're not splitting coins they're being sold and going towards the mythic we're working on after that they'll go to the relics we're working on. So I dont get how us making almost as much as you make with 6 people with 3 such a huge time waste we average per person more coins than you do anyways with our "fail" jobs. Also you dont take into the fact that the strat to for beastmasters to duo/solo doesnt allow for whiteprocing since both of them sub dancer to quick proc JA's. So it comes down to are you a risk taker and like getting 1-x number of whiteprocs a run on occasion or do you go for consistent 300-400 coins a run and settle. Personally I enjoy the random chance of getting white proc and especially enjoy when we get 3 white procs in a run 600 coins is nice.

So I'll end with giving you a piece of your own advice about posting without reading what the other person has actually said and not proofreading your own posts.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

so get your "facts" straight.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

Yeah, I don't believe you.



As if that can't be edited to show whatever you want it to.



Asking for solidarity in an MMO forum is just pissing into the wind. You're not going to see that because not everyone wants the same thing. and often what people want is mutually exclusive of what somone else wants. Thus people are constantly at each other's throats. Some people want endgame to be egalitarian and fair, others want it to be a gated community that keeps out the noobs by being extremely difficult. This is how it's always been in every MMORPG ever (it was like this when I played Meridian, and later Everquest) and human nature will ensure that it always remains this way.

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If you really think I feel the need to edit a text file that long to prove a strat I got third hand works. It's not even worth the effort. I'm following what I heard and reporting the results you can believe or not believe me. I've got no real reason to need to prove it to you I offered as a politeness. You can be in denial or jump on the bandwagon and try it for yourself. It takes a few runs to learn the timers and to get your rhythm but you can pull as much as we do regularly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

Imo i feel this new 1500 item for empyrean is a step back for SE :( for a few reasons.

atm the drop rate is something like 1 in 5 (inc pouchs) meaning you need to do around 7000 runs

if on a good day you get a run done in 20 min it would take you 2333 hours to complete it if say you play this game 4 hours a day on average then your looking at 583 days to complete a weapon.

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I know you're upset about the requirement but you're also exaggerating drastically. If the drop rate was that low Niceguy wouldnt have even been able to buy or farm all the heavy metal plates he did in a week to finish his 95 Almace. You need to get in with a good VWNM group and do Qilins and you'll realize how much faster this actually is. Yes it may still cost you a month of playtime if you dont buy heavy metal plates but so do Empys when they first came out. If a month to two months of your time is not worth the weapon dont work on it until next update where I'm sure it'll be much easier to get.

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Originally Posted by Staren

So you admit that its possible to duo 300+ coins with beastmasters in CoP but you also say its impossible for a duo to get 300+ coins in the same breath.

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Nope I didn't say solo BST get 300 coins ... They don't.

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Also you say solo/duo beast is more efficient but you farm 400 coins with 6 people anyways? Why because you like wasting time?

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You are not bright, aren't you ? 6 char but two persons. 2 bst doing two runs at the same time will get a maximum of 200 coins EACH and I doubt they can even get this, so yeah it's still inferior to 400 coins.

And no doing 6 runs @ 150c per run is not better than 1 run at 400 coins I will let you guess why. However it IS vastly better than your pathetic 3 man pulling 300 coins (maybe) because you spent 2 hours for one million each which essentially is on par with cruor farming and selling roffl.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Byrth

Sorry, that post was made before we'd figured out the CoP Dynamis proc system. I pulled in 225 currency last night in Qufim, which has no good Byne monsters unless you're essentially solo in the zone. Pulling in 200~300 with 2-3 players isn't even 100 currency per hour per player though.

I pull in 200~250 every two hours with two characters and one player (me). A little over 2 mil per night on average. Toss in other random things I do for gil, and I'm making about 3mil per night average (~17-20 plates, averaging the prices I buy at). I expect supply to spike on the weekends.

Some servers have been reporting as low as 100k/plate already. Lakshmi is sitting pretty strong at 170-200k/plate.

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Byrth we're a low man group so we do everything for the group. We're farming in whole. So while we're not one person dual boxing working for himself. We're one extra player than you working towards one goal. We make 300 coins a night on a bad night (last night I came /blm on accident and it took us 15-20 mins to get TE's since I couldnt solo the random stat and we got 415 coins). I dont know if you have the chance to white proc the way you do either. Its our method and its a pretty common one. We're still getting an extra 50+ coins a bad run from your high end and its going towards one goal. So I guess you could argue efficiency but we've also had a 600 coin run and I'd argue its due to two subless dancers pulling and procing constantly while I finish off their mobs once they proc. Its just a difference in playstyles though and I personally don't have any ill feelings on your dual boxing 200-250 coins hats off thats more than I'd be able to get dual boxing, maybe duo but idk I'm not the best dualboxer.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Nope I didn't say solo BST get 300 coins ... They don't.



You are not bright, aren't you ? 6 char but two persons. 2 bst doing two runs at the same time will get a maximum of 200 coins and I doubt they can even get this, so yeah it's still inferior to 400 coins.

And no doing 6 runs @ 150c per run is not better than 1 run at 400 coins I will let you guess why.

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Look at your math you said 3 beasts doing simultaneous solo runs could get 400 coins easy. So there is no way by your own logic that two beasts could get a maximum of 200 coins when adding a third by your own word would double that.

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Originally Posted by Staren

blabla abour white procing

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White procing is fail, k ? ALL the strategies and jobs combos implying white procs end into fail because they average less than a normal setup. So yeah sorry for not accounting fail stratetgies, but I now see how you totally made up your 300 coins duo haha.

Also I may not be bright in your eyes but wow at your reading comprehension. I said 300 coins on a bad run 300+ on an average run. So our three man is not too far off from what you and your friend manage to "duo" but have to use 6 characters for. Grats you can use a whole ton of third party apps or hit alt tab reeeeeally fast. All that effort to make maybe 100 coins more than us on our bad runs. Congrats! You didnt have to make another friend. Glad that let you avoid all the other logic and your own double talk. I now realize you're not man enough to admit your own mistakes or incoherencies. I dont need to respond to you any more, though should of known this before I started responding with the name you've made for yourself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

White procing is fail, k ? ALL the strategies and jobs combos implying white procs end into fail because they average less than a normal setup. So yeah sorry for not accounting fail stratetgies, but I now see how you totally made up your 300 coins duo haha.

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We made 412 coins last night with 1 white proc. U mad bro? I also came /blm and it took us 15 mins to farm timers. Sorry we're just more efficient than having to pay 45 dollars a month on two people to be able to make maybe 100 coins more than our bad nights.

I will give my opinion in a respecfull way for Mr Tanaka. So the moderadors dont erase my post.

I think the way of think mr tanaka is this:

He think the JP comunity love the challenges and love play in big groups. We can see the JP comunity still running big LS with 30 - 40 people like before. They do everything with massive number of people.

Maybe Tanaka is thinking more in the Japanase comunity because they are who keep this game alive. Without the Jp comunity probably FFXI was death like 3 years ago.

The problem is FFXI start Feel like before. "A lot of grind and several hours for get the gear needed for a very small feeling progress".

In abyssea we all experiment the "God mode". Now with VW. We are experiment the old school ffxi, even if i like both feelings. Im think the abyssea route was the best for the game. A lot of short LS, short groups was the way to go in this last months

I hope Tanaka. Reconsider this choice and he let us have FFXI in a casual way. In this moment with a lot of new MMRPG are coming if they dont keep the comunity happy probably they will lose a lot of people in the next year.

When i finish my Masamune. I dont will bother with this 1500 things really. With my limited time for play 1500 runs assuming i can get 1 plate per run. This will take massive time. (The only way for i try go for this is if get a Pouch 12 plates per run and burning my 250+ stones. without this Never i will even try this)

412 currency with 1 white proc . . . I pulled in 236 a few days ago without a white proc (but also without a sub). So you're adding more mouths to feed and picking up 80 currency per run. It would be better for you as a group if you split up and did the zones separately.

I am on the edge of giving up on white procs. I can pull in decent currency without a sub because I'm Dancer, but /WAR offers Provoke (a 30 second JA that can't miss and can be used to pull) and Berserk. I bet it would add an average of ~30 currency per run, and I've had literally hundreds of procs and only one white... I guess I can keep trying, but regular >2k Dancing Edges in Qufim last night was pretty fun.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Byrth

412 currency with 1 white proc . . . I pulled in 236 a few days ago without a white proc (but also without a sub). So you're adding more mouths to feed and picking up 80 currency per run. It would be better for you as a group if you split up and did the zones separately.

I am on the edge of giving up on white procs. I can pull in decent currency without a sub because I'm Dancer, but /WAR offers Provoke (a 30 second JA that can't miss and can be used to pull) and Berserk. I bet it would add an average of ~30 currency per run, and I've had literally hundreds of procs and only one white... I guess I can keep trying, but regular >2k Dancing Edges in Qufim last night was pretty fun.

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Like I said different playstyles Byrth. The group is feeding one mouth currently and we enjoy playing together. We'd each have to pay 15 dollars more a month and level a whole new character or buy one to do what you're doing. Otherwise yeah we could split up and make 750 ish dual boxing like you are. I just dont feel the need when I enjoy playing with my friends and I don't enjoy dual boxing. But I will bend and say if you've got a group of three people with 2 accounts and who dual box regularly splitting up the three zones would be more efficient.

I do this with my girlfriend and our friend to work on her mythic and then relics for him and I once the mythic is finished. Don't really -need- a whole lot from the game at this point since I can do VWNMs efficiently with what I have at this point we're just working on finishing the stuff we've always wanted to get for fun and to have it more than anything else. Pretty much all that's left to do after abyssea.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

I am on the edge of giving up on white procs..

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I will test soon white procs with 6 char, 3 being war nothing, we'll see.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

JP reports say that the Almace hasn't changed in any hidden way. It's just base damage + Stat. I'm hoping that drops the prices.

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Well that's disappointing I guess I'll just stock up on gil to buy plates once the 99 upgrade is found and tested... Oh well.

Tested white procs and it's fail. Well at least it "doesn't hurt" our 6-man way. However it's not as fail as the BSTs completely ruining cop dynamis. It lasted 3 weeks, not bad. All the easy prey camps are know ruined by BTS solos or duo. Bascially during 2/3 of the run we have 2 other groups cc ing us, still managed to get 250 coins, which is just slightly worse than cities. 3 procers /war, 3 procer war, zero white proc. Forget it for duo or trio.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

I am on the edge of giving up on white procs.

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Lol I only did one run with no sj, of course no white!! It's an illusion to make good money for people who like big currency but in the long run its not worth it. It's like pulling the Nms in city. They take longer and you have to do sac pulls or move, or clear their helper , which costs time etc, and the 1/30 drop rate sucks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Tested white procs and it's fail. Well at least it "doesn't hurt" our 6-man way. However it's not as fail as the BSTs completely ruining cop dynamis. It lasted 3 weeks, not bad. All the easy prey camps are know ruined by BTS solos or duo. Bascially during 2/3 of the run we have 2 other groups cc ing us, still managed to get 250 coins, which is just slightly worse than cities. 3 procers /war, 3 procer war, zero white proc. Forget it for duo or trio.

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Don't have BST problems on Cerb, but DNC or /DNC is better overall for procing. Also which zone did you do? Bubu seems to be the best for coins with 3 EP camps not far from each other. White proc is garbage which is unfortunate, if its 1% I'd be shocked.

Bubu is the best zone but also the most played. The uragnite camp is undoable, the crawler camp is to small for a single group. Therefore the bird camp is sytematically saturated. The mandy+ rabbit camp is nearly always spammed too. The dhalmel camp is free half of the time only and the eft is free nearly 100% of the time. As soon as another soloer or group is at mandy or dhalmels it's ruined. I didn't try valkurm but the mobs are basically all of "aoe something that sucks" - type. Qufim ? Well no idea. For me no big change it just mean that I'm switching to a tough camp if it's taken from now on. I'll need accuracy for birds though which sucks.

I really wouldnt be buying Pchan's garbage at straight word of mouth. He demanded proof that 2 dnc's and a thf/dnc could farm 300+ coins in bubu asking for logs etc etc, and yet he doesnt provide any mathematical statements, logs, etc. (anything he'd ask for to be convinced). He just throws a blanket statement out there that its crap. It's completely random true but since the october 4th update we've seen 6 white procs, a run with 2, a run with 1, and a run with 3. Not saying we haven't gotten lucky but DNC no sub DNC no sub THF/DNC and if you're geared decently to DD on your thf (Which I realize thf isnt a dd but it kills fast enough on EP mobs if you're popping SA everytime you can especially when trying to take proc'd mobs off your DNC's who have proc'd so they can go pull a new mob) and the dnc's start to help kill when you have 5-6+ proc'd mobs at camp. You can easily farm 300 coins a run. The white proc is just icing on the cake. This is not the strategy for people who need to dual box and tri box and dont have friends willing to help you work toward your goal. This does require 3 people who are able to fully play their characters and work together (communicating constantly). It's a fun way to spend 2hrs. Thf doesn't try to help proc unless you're within a 20-10 vana minutes of time change. Birds > Mandies/Bunnies > Crabs/Scorps procing with JA's. It does well enough. Seriously try it once it's better than cities and it gives you a chance at white proc.