[dev1289] Job Adjustments

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Originally Posted by Clou777

LOL @ the people who are saying this has made BST "unplayable", me personally am not too fussed about the nerf, they have a fair point to do so as things become TOO easy when you sic a bunch of ranged BSTs on NMs spamming abilities which do 3x+ dmg more than most other jobs, all theyve done is increase the risk factor.

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You have some valid points: Range setup are easier and you are right, something has to be done, when so many people play one job and other jobs are left out.

But bst does surely not 3x+ the damage of other jobs. You may have seen a strong bst with capped jp and top gear and compared it to a mediocre SMN, then yes. But not compared to an equal DD.
However, it became "unplayable" because it got totally messed up. Right now it cant engage, due to available gear, without giving up alot of dmg. Why anyone with a brain should do it then? So it's just standing there, eating the AoE's, which seems senseless, job design wise.
When Bst group is no longer safe, player will look for other setups. Either another ranged or melee. That's good. What's not so good is, that bst will find no place in them, mainly due to design of Brd and Cor.
So no party play besides the occassionally Bst pt, when it's possible.
And solo? Sure, with trusts, like any other job. What i will miss is the real solo challenge, which always was fun to do, and is very limited now.

Yes, something had to be done. Pet's base stats were too high compared to other jobs, which made bst the superior choice for beginners or lazy people.
And some support jobs need adjustments, so that mixed parties are possible. Pretty sure, if we would have seen more Bluemages in our Bst parties, the wish for nerfing bst would be nonexistent.
Problem is, looking into this needs lots of time, lots of balancing needs to be done. And how easy it is to change a single digit instead. I'm not happy with your work here, SE.

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Originally Posted by bazookatooth

They're saying that people are just picking X job over all others just because they saw / heard someone else win with it and they never try anything else. They just go with what everyone else does. Not because it's actually the most efficient, but because they saw / heard it worked and decided it must be the best if other people did it. The point of the story about making the party more efficient was to point out that people were trying to do everything with RNG because they don't think for themselves and just did what someone before them did, when they could have done it better using other jobs.

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That's exactly what I was trying to say.

Also, I find it hilarious that no one seems to be talking about the item level Soboro that got added, which will probably be second to only the SAM mythic.

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Originally Posted by Shirai

I think anyone that really cares about the job will find a way.
I don't see this as a problem for the beastmaster, but more a problem for the lazy healers out there. I mean, your damage output didn't really get nerfed right? You just have to put yourself in a bit more risky position to be able to dish it out. And even that can be solved with proper planning and timing.
Let the healers worry about the rest, the good beastmasters will find a way as they, like other good players, have improvised their way in groups for years. Others will simply jump on the next bandwagon.

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Yes it did. Cause when you're dead your damage is 0. And the only way BST was getting that damage output was by building to focus on the pet. But now, the only way to live is to do waaaaaaay less damage. Besides which, we were never invited because we had high damage (we don't) but because we had range (which we no longer do).

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Originally Posted by Kensagaku

I'm not against having to be in range to fight. I like the "easy mode" as it were, but I don't have a problem moving into range. I have sets for when I need to engage too. But then if I'm gearing for myself, my pet suffers. If I don't swap my offhand axe for Charmer's Merlin, my Ready timer increases by 50% (from 10->15), and that lowers my overall DPS significantly. If I do swap my offhand axe, then I lose TP every time I use a Ready move, meaning that I can't weaponskill and that I'm basically there to do minimal white damage. If I gear for my own accuracy, my pet loses accuracy. If I gear for my pet's accuracy, I can't hit anything. The problem, again is "gearing for two." If they can address this issue, then I think the problem with having to be in range is severely mitigated.

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This all of this. I could deal with the range change if they did ANYTHING to make BST a viable job with the range. Now it's even less useful than it was before they buffed pet weaponskills. We weaponskill less, slower, for less damage and have very low survivability and constant JA lock. No one is going to invite us for anything.

I was under the impression the entire reason for BST spam was not so much the damage as the fact that the pets didn't instantly die to all the massive AoE damage that kills your average DD who is a glass cannon and refuses to put on -DT.

Boo, c'mon guys didn't you like being able to clear all the content with no effort or risk? I know I did. Will miss it!

I also miss Embrava and Ukko/Smite.

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Originally Posted by machini

I was under the impression the entire reason for BST spam was not so much the damage as the fact that the pets didn't instantly die to all the massive AoE damage that kills your average DD who is a glass cannon and refuses to put on -DT.

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Well that's more of the reason for any job out of range vs melee. whether it be any of the pet jobs or mage jobs or even rng though the enmity update really killed rng popularity. Part of the reason of love for pet specifically is while generally not ideal (largely due to keeping hate off the geo you'd want debuffing) you could get away without the whole pld+healer in the pt. Though you generally should still have had some sort of tank tp at divert some of the dmg from the squishier pets you could set up a bst to be one or even better auto to be one. You can still basically do the same thing except smn for the DD.

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Originally Posted by bazookatooth

Ready move's require the use of gear that has no DT- for the master. Some of them aren't even iLVL. Same goes for idle sets. Nothing you can do about that with currently available gear. Try again.

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One of the problems with horizontal progression is having otherwise weak items that you still need even in lategame for a particular effect or ability.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

One of the problems with horizontal progression is having otherwise weak items that you still need even in lategame for a particular effect or ability.

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Indeed. I'd take this over throwing away everything I worked for within a month or two for yet another similar item with the same set of stats+7 on it though.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Indeed. I'd take this over throwing away everything I worked for within a month or two for yet another similar item with the same set of stats+7 on it though.

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There's pros and cons. It also means I don't see a new event or new fight come out that has no items I want from it, as has happened frequently over the years. As long as there's a way to get the look though, I'm good (Something FFXI has only had for a relatively short time).

The best part about the horizontal style is, as you alluded, variety. Loot is more fun when you have to look at different pieces and compare them to see what works best for you (vs knowing the next thing is always going to be better and by the same amount). In this regard FFXI is pretty much without equal.

The best part about a more vertical system (for me, anyway), is less inventory frustration from not needing 132 sidegrade items to be swapped a dozen of them in and out at a time for each ability I have. Balance is simpler as well.

The best thing ever would be something in between, with a lot of statistical variety but also a more straightforward sense of progression. I don't think these things are mutually exlcusive- Post audolin XI has somewhat tread into this territory by use of item level, but only on certain gear slots. While some people don't seem to like this, it clicks pretty well with me.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

There's pros and cons. It also means I don't see a new event or new fight come out that has no items I want from it, as has happened frequently over the years. As long as there's a way to get the look though, I'm good (Something FFXI has only had for a relatively short time).

The best part about the horizontal style is, as you alluded, variety. Loot is more fun when you have to look at different pieces and compare them to see what works best for you (vs knowing the next thing is always going to be better and by the same amount). In this regard FFXI is pretty much without equal.

The best part about a more vertical system (for me, anyway), is less inventory frustration from not needing 132 sidegrade items to be swapped a dozen of them in and out at a time for each ability I have. Balance is simpler as well.

The best thing ever would be something in between, with a lot of statistical variety but also a more straightforward sense of progression. I don't think these things are mutually exlcusive- Post audolin XI has somewhat tread into this territory by use of item level, but only on certain gear slots. While some people don't seem to like this, it clicks pretty well with me.

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True. Something as crucial as an axe or legs that increase your pet's damage output by 50-100% shouldn't have been overlooked when it came time to make iLvl gear. It's really telling when items that are that important to a job's functionality are completely overlooked. I'm not sure if SE ignored those pieces because they wanted BST to suck or if they just don't plan / test things well. Both prospects are pretty disheartening.