The importance of job points

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Originally Posted by Protey

no it's not. go do incursion, any job is acceptable to go to that unless you are doing the high levels. Go shout for a PUG incursion if for some reason your LS leaders are a**holes and won't let you come on BST, PUP, or w/e.

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Yep. That's 90% of this game's problem right there - a$$holes who go out of their to discriminate against others based on what job they choose to play. People shouldn't confuse actual game issues with player attitudes because that's something SE can't fix.

I am sorry... but yeah bst "can" do incursion but I don't think someone is being an a-hole if they would rather take a DD that does 2-4 times as much damage. IT IS A GAME ISSUE. All DDs should be able to put out comparable levels of damage one way or another. Even if say BST was really good in unbuffed situations and crappy in buffed situations (they could easily do this by massively boosting pets, which don't get buffs) it would be more fair than it is now where bst is pretty much never better unless you want to tickle something to death with a low chance of getting hurt.

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Originally Posted by Dale

Yep. That's 90% of this game's problem right there - a$$holes who go out of their to discriminate against others based on what job they choose to play. People shouldn't confuse actual game issues with player attitudes because that's something SE can't fix.

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Those are player attitudes that are based on mathematics, and that's something only SE can fix.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

Those are player attitudes that are based on mathematics, and that's something only SE can fix.

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Yes and no. While the math may support leaving a BST /sitting in Jeuno twiddling their thumbs people could always invite anyone and have some fun instead.

....and then I step back into reality and realize that's not going to happen outside my social linkshell lol. Damage>sociability is the reality of XI.

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Originally Posted by Jile

Yes and no. While the math may support leaving a BST /sitting in Jeuno twiddling their thumbs people could always invite anyone and have some fun instead.

....and then I step back into reality and realize that's not going to happen outside my social linkshell lol. Damage>sociability is the reality of XI.

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eh, to be fair, it's not really a lot of fun sucking either. I'd like my job to be within striking distance of other jobs with the same function.

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Except that the grind of obtaining Job points is considerably WORSE than levelling up traditionally, or even meritting.

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Some people have complained about how fast and easy it is to level up now; so rather than slow that down directly, they make their new advancement system grindy to compensate. Not necessarily saying that CP aren't too slow, but EXP is extremely fast these days. capaicty points should take longer to earn than EXP, although they do perhaps take too much longer. The good news is that as you gain more, future job points will be earned a bit more quickly due to the cumulative capacity point bonuses you earn.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Some people have complained about how fast and easy it is to level up now; so rather than slow that down directly, they make their new advancement system grindy to compensate. Not necessarily saying that CP aren't too slow, but EXP is extremely fast these days. capaicty points should take longer to earn than EXP, although they do perhaps take too much longer. The good news is that as you gain more, future job points will be earned a bit more quickly due to the cumulative capacity point bonuses you earn.

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Which means that jobs that are already slow to earn CP will get it even slower by comparison! Gifts only serve to widen the disparity. The gift that keeps on taking.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

Which means that jobs that are already slow to earn CP will get it even slower by comparison! Gifts only serve to widen the disparity. The gift that keeps on taking.

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That's a defect of job design not a defect of gifts or job points. The jobs that are slow to earn CP are slow to earn EXP as well. Should harder-to-level jobs require less EXP to level up? No, they should balance the jobs better so that in a solo situation they can still perform acceptably. FFXIV solves this problem for healers with Cleric Stance, which weakens healing spells to boost damage output. Trust should have in theory eliminated this soloing disparity, but it doesn't because the DPS trusts are woefully inadequate, something that SE needs to address. (I believe afflatus solace and misery were intended to be something similar to a cleric stance / healer stance thing, but it really falls flat as misery's boost to damage spells is pretty paltry and dependent on a number that changes frequently)

If you form a party for job points, all these problems go out the window anyway. Everyone in your party is earning them at the same rate, ignoring gifts. Remember how we used to get EXP? in a party. You can still do that with CP, you know. The job growth disparity only exists while playing solo.

Farming in a party is a lot faster, and so many people beg for old-school EXP parties and stuff. Yet despite this begging, not a lot of people do it when it's totally possible. I did a party in Woh Gates and it was several orders of magnitude faster than soloing, especially for the jobs that are not as good at soloing.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

If you form a party for job points, all these problems go out the window anyway. Everyone in your party is earning them at the same rate, ignoring gifts. Remember how we used to get EXP? in a party. You can still do that with CP, you know. The job growth disparity only exists while playing solo.

Farming in a party is a lot faster, and so many people beg for old-school EXP parties and stuff. Yet despite this begging, not a lot of people do it when it's totally possible. I did a party in Woh Gates and it was several orders of magnitude faster than soloing, especially for the jobs that are not as good at soloing.

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You must have missed the earlier posts where I noted the difficulty of joining or creating a CP party due to the severe lack of active server population. Combine that with the aforementioned job balance issues and... well a lot of us are pretty much having to earn all our CP solo. Like with many things SE has put out over the years there are too many layers of complexity than are necessary between me and my goals.

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You must have missed the earlier posts where I noted the difficulty of joining or creating a CP party due to the severe lack of active server population.

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The thing is, that makes everything harder, not just earning CP or EXP. But what I see is not simply a lack of people but rather disinterest. I often ask people and they're like nah I want to do this that or the other content instead (even though nobody I know is capped on job points).

Again, what you're illustrating is not a defect in the job point system itself- The job point issue is at worst a symptom of a larger problem. A problem that could be fixed by either or both of two things:
1) A server merge, which I'm on the fence about since news of a server merge just fuels "game is dying" discussion
2) Job adjustments to make less-solo-capable jobs more independent and/or buffing DPS trust NPCs to be halfway decent instead of garbage.