[dev1139] Embrava and Prefect Defense - Just say 'NO'

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

I hope they nerf Embrava and PD. As SE said since these 2hrs are so powerful they would need to make all future NMs have counter-measures against Embrava and PD to even the playingfield, such as moves that can dispel it or absorb it or deal damage/insta kill through PD. Then people will complain/crymoar.

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Except they didn't even nerf the current nms at all other than a small hp decrease that doesn't address the real problem. I mean practically every nm attack is AoE max range 1000+ damage with debuffs that has to be negated through fanatic's, PD, or stun locking. Everything is also some sort of melee zerg. When the current nms can't even be adjusted correctly what makes you think they will do any better on new nms.

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Originally Posted by Dantedmc

Except they didn't even nerf the current nms at all other than a small hp decrease that doesn't address the real problem. I mean practically every nm attack is AoE max range 1000+ damage with debuffs that has to be negated through fanatic's, PD, or stun locking. Everything is also some sort of melee zerg. When the current nms can't even be adjusted correctly what makes you think they will do any better on new nms.

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Hall of Mul win, without Perfect Defense.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

Hall of Mul win, without Perfect Defense.

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If you didn't notice I also said stun locking, which is just another form of damage negation. Most Groups that don't use PD use schs to stunlock the nm. I can't be 100% positive, but I'm pretty sure they are using stuns. As much as I love sch being invited, I don't think the only way to reliably survive these monsters should be stopping practically everything they do. Secondly you notice what that video has in it. EMBRAVA! Guess what's getting nerfed? EMBRAVA!

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Originally Posted by Taint2

"Hardcore" groups don't use PD in Legion lol. They use 3 SCHs to stun lock the mobs.

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Combination of PD, full time Embrava and lots of SCH stun locking. Typically PD is only used for 3~4 NMs per run, usually the more annoying ones with stupid "save or die" type moves. The rest are stun spammed.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Combination of PD, full time Embrava and lots of SCH stun locking. Typically PD is only used for 3~4 NMs per run, usually the more annoying ones with stupid "save or die" type moves. The rest are stun spammed.

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We've now tried both strategies, and not relying on PD at all seems to work out better so far, because it opens up more room for other jobs, and stun locking is very effective in disabling any kind of mob movement, which makes PD redundant.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

We've now tried both strategies, and not relying on PD at all seems to work out better so far, because it opens up more room for other jobs, and stun locking is very effective in disabling any kind of mob movement, which makes PD redundant.

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Next update: Legion monsters will now build resistance to Stun.

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We've now tried both strategies, and not relying on PD at all seems to work out better so far, because it opens up more room for other jobs, and stun locking is very effective in disabling any kind of mob movement, which makes PD redundant.

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Their nerfing Embrava also which makes chain stunning MUCH harder. Embrava + haste allows those SCH's to have capped recast's, then they apply Alacrity to get a 3~4s stun recast. Without full time Embrava your looking at haste + march's which won't reach cap. So really just makes chain stunning a bit harder, that's all.

PD was really used for ADL as Shock squall isn't nearly enough. That first split will guarantee two moves going off, typically a double Oblivion Smash. That's knockback, gravity and paralyze for your DD's at a minimum, possibly death from the severe damage or shortly thereafter. Gotta have the 2nd Squall ready for the moment it twitch's to reapply or you'll get Slashed / Smashed / Implosioned to death. If your chose wrong it's basically a wipe unless your stupidly lucky on the 2nd one not deciding to end your run. Legion is more about denying the monsters any form of special move while you pound them into the ground and hope the later ones don't press their "I Win" button.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Their nerfing Embrava also which makes chain stunning MUCH harder. Embrava + haste allows those SCH's to have capped recast's, then they apply Alacrity to get a 3~4s stun recast. Without full time Embrava your looking at haste + march's which won't reach cap. So really just makes chain stunning a bit harder, that's all.

PD was really used for ADL as Shock squall isn't nearly enough. That first split will guarantee two moves going off, typically a double Oblivion Smash. That's knockback, gravity and paralyze for your DD's at a minimum, possibly death from the severe damage or shortly thereafter. Gotta have the 2nd Squall ready for the moment it twitch's to reapply or you'll get Slashed / Smashed / Implosioned to death. If your chose wrong it's basically a wipe unless your stupidly lucky on the 2nd one not deciding to end your run. Legion is more about denying the monsters any form of special move while you pound them into the ground and hope the later ones don't press their "I Win" button.

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lol, what?

People are 3 manning ADL, people are killing him daily without PD. He is not hard, he just requires organization. Yes even played perfect he can pull an FU card out. (looking at you 10% split) But any decent group is winning 90%+ of the time.

Why wouldn't haste+march cap recast? You act like they aren't casting in haste/FC gear or you don't understand how casting works.

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Originally Posted by Taint2

lol, what?

People are 3 manning ADL, people are killing him daily without PD. He is not hard, he just requires organization. Yes even played perfect he can pull an FU card out. (looking at you 10% split) But any decent group is winning 90%+ of the time.

Why wouldn't haste+march cap recast? You act like they aren't casting in haste/FC gear or you don't understand how casting works.

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People are not 3 manning ADL, three DD's are killing him with an army of mules / dual-box / tri-box characters. Namely in the sheer number of SMN's needed. We farm the ADL marrows to sell weekly and typically sell 7+ depending on how much time we have to farm pop sets. I'm intimately familiar with that jack a$$ and he's a push over for the first 40~50% of his HP, after that he likes to spam his "I Win" button. During his splitting animation he is invulnerable to all damage / effects, so you gotta wait for him to split, until which he'll immediately use two TP moves. After that it's a matter of luck, if you chose the right one then he's stupid easy to win as your squall will last most of the time. The problems come when you chose the wrong one (50% of the time) and now your on a very short timer to kill the second one before it does Terra Slash, Dyna Implosion or splits into four clones. Again invulnerable during the animation and all four will immediately use a TP move when their appear, pretty much guarantees a wipe.

We've had runs when we've chosen the wrong one 5 out of 7 pops. Thankfully only wiped on one of them due to second one using implosion at 5% then splitting.

Speaking from experience that capping stun recasts is quite a bit harder without embrava. Remember your wanting magic accuracy and dark magic skill when you cast stun to get a first or second tier land for maximum duration / effect. FC caps at 80% and can only reduce recasts by 40%, the rest is up to haste equip / spell. Stun is a 45s recast, to get it to 3~5s you need to cap haste while using Alacrity.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Speaking from experience that capping stun recasts is quite a bit harder without embrava.

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Haste Spell: 15%
March x2 (w/+4): 28.4%
Total: 43.4%

0.35% short of capped magical haste if the BRD has 99 Gala then they cap magical haste just like embrava + haste would. Am I missing something? I mean that seems pretty simple to calculate.