One million limit points for a sidegrade? What is the Dev Team's logic behind this?

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Originally Posted by Finuve

I said let me know if I'm wrong, just going off what I've heard, however upheaval I have tested and it seems like crap, though I haven't been thorough

Realmrazer, Entropy, Ruinator, Requiescat are the worst offenders of these though

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super wrong,
Shijin Spiral is actually the best of the added ws's and the best mnk ws when paired with relic h2h. Upheaval is only behind met. torment and ukko's fury, and apex is as good if not better than sidewinder.

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Originally Posted by Brolic

super wrong,
Shijin Spiral is actually the best of the added ws's and the best mnk ws when paired with relic h2h. Upheaval is only behind met. torment and ukko's fury, and apex is as good if not better than sidewinder.

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if its as good its a problem, it needs to be better than sidewinder, I'll take your word on Shijin, and test server is closed now isnt it? I cant test upheaval again but I could have definitely been wrong on that

Realmrazer
Entropy
Ruinator
Requiescat

these four need fixed badly, they are completely worthless

arguable
Apex Arrow (if it is indeed only as strong as sidewinder)

I don't think Apex Arrowk gets the accuracy penalty that sidewinder gets, so that automatically makes it a better ws

A few are definitely better than you've heard.

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Originally Posted by Finuve

Worthless Crap:
Upheaval
Entropy
Realrazer
Ruinator
Apex Arrow
Requiescat
Stardiver
Shijin Spiral

Let me know if I'm wrong on any of these, but based on what I gathered its the WSs in the last section that SE needs to fix

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Upheaval is an absolute monster when used under the effect of Mighty Strikes, and does pretty well otherwise. Since any weaponskill that Great Axe/Warrior gains will be situational at this point, that seems good enough to me.

Shijin Spiral looks to be the weaponskill of choice for times when Impetus is down. It has a small attack bonus rather than the standard penalties that come with most of these weaponskills, so that helps a lot.

I can say with confidence that those two are useful.

I'm not sure how much Apex Arrow has been tested, so I'm hesitant to say it's good just from looking at the fTP. My guess is that people complained because they were expecting Apex Arrow to make like Jishnu's Radiance and scrape the anti-life equation into the evil crotch of whatever it was used upon.

good deal SpankWuster, that all makes sense, and Brolic without the accuracy penalty that would be great for apex and enough to qualify it as not needing adjusted

so can we fully narrow it down to just asking for Realmrazer Entropy Ruinator and Requiescat to be adjusted? (and quietus hint hint)

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Originally Posted by Brolic

super wrong,
Shijin Spiral is actually the best of the added ws's and the best mnk ws when paired with relic h2h. Upheaval is only behind met. torment and ukko's fury, and apex is as good if not better than sidewinder.

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But is it any good for a MNK without Emp/Relic/Mythic?

Vereth Mnk should stick to smite - at least with Impetus up, and anyone without smite should just spam shijin.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

But is it any good for a MNK without Emp/Relic/Mythic?

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yeah, it is

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Originally Posted by Rohelius

Drop your LS and go solo then comeback and tell me that.

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What is this 2007? Since when in the last few years has a ls been needed to do anything? Even an event like VW which is blatantly forcing 18 man setups upon us has become primarily a pickup event.

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Originally Posted by Finuve

I said let me know if I'm wrong, just going off what I've heard, however upheaval I have tested and it seems like crap, though I haven't been thorough

Realmrazer, Entropy, Ruinator, Requiescat are the worst offenders of these though

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Req is absolutely worthless period. If they would just remove the attack penality (-20%) then it would be inline with Vorpal Blade or slightly stronger depending on your gear and JA / JT. PLD/BLU/RDM aren't exactly known for critical hit bonus and high attack anyway.