Einherjar / Limbus / Nyzul Isle / Salvage - No More Proc Systems!!

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Originally Posted by Camiie

The thing I hate about procs is having to stand back and not be able to make use of the gear I've earned. I know some people don't want zergfests anymore, but I really want to be able to go all out and smash things into oblivion sometimes without worry over procs or lights.

Variety is the spice of life, right? If people like procs then don't do away with them, but it'd be nice to have new relevant events where we can just cut loose. Not without risk of dying, of course. We have to maintain some challenge. I just wonder what good all these powerful weapons, armors, spells, and abilities are if we have to constantly nerf ourselves to get anything done. Let us show them off and be rewarded for doing so.

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We're on the same page.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

The thing I hate about procs is having to stand back and not be able to make use of the gear I've earned. I know some people don't want zergfests anymore, but I really want to be able to go all out and smash things into oblivion sometimes without worry over procs or lights.

Variety is the spice of life, right? If people like procs then don't do away with them, but it'd be nice to have new relevant events where we can just cut loose. Not without risk of dying, of course. We have to maintain some challenge. I just wonder what good all these powerful weapons, armors, spells, and abilities are if we have to constantly nerf ourselves to get anything done. Let us show them off and be rewarded for doing so.

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Preach it!

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

Procs are horrible, and have been horrible since 80 cap.

It's just a sorry excuse of "balance" to include jobs that wouldn't have been included before (in the end in VW, the only jobs that get included that wouldn't be included otherwise are like BLU, SCH, RDM, DRK, and like DRG. PUP is still left out, even DRG, RDM, and SCH can be left out and still cap lights very easily.) It obviously doesn't work in Aby in terms of 'inclusion,' WAR NIN WHM BLM/BRD THF BLU or -------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>get out

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Even if you wanted to include as many jobs as possible, you can't include them all, because there are 20 jobs and only 18 spots in an alliance. So guess which jobs would be left out even in the best case scenario? Probably PUP and either DRG or BST.

Procs killed Dragoon, it's not anywhere near the same lol level as PUP or BST in group settings. Even including procs, the jobs you'd want to leave out are the ones that don't have unique weapon procs - BST and PUP. Pet procs are stupid for anything that isn't SMN.

Honestly not sure where the Drg hate is coming from. It's a solid DD, and it can easily keep up with the big 3 as long as their wyvern's alive. Throw in a Mythic and it's basically unstoppable.

Honestly not sure where the Pup hate is coming from. It's a solid DD and it can easily keep up with the big 3 as long as their puppet's alive. Throw in an Empy and it's basically unstoppable.

Oh you're funny. I'd like to see that PUP keeping up with the big 3 without a Mythic. The only reason the wyvern matters for Dragoon is for the later jumps, not because pet damage is worth a shit (hint: It's not, even on PUP).

Heh 60 "Thumbs Up" on the OP and a bunch of posts that followed. Pretty awesome. Now just need some feedback >.>

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not because pet damage is worth a shit (hint: It's not, even on PUP).

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Then you're doing it wrong. Especially so following the coming update, which makes sharpshot considerably stronger due to the drastically improved drum magazine, which means more ranged attacks, faster TP, and more WS. PUP can keep up with DRG just fine. And I know, because have some pretty darn good DRG friends (whom don't get to use it as often as they'd like because they have some of the 17 other jobs that are more wanted). PUP BST and DRG aren't even likely to be the number one job due to SE's overly cautious nature with pet jobs, but I can assure you from personal and eyewitness experience that you're not giving any of these jobs enough credit. Oh, and no PUP in their right mind should be taking the mythic over Verethregana.

(Previous post was semi-poking fun, but you chose to press it further)

//Cue post about me being irrationally defensive, though GG is basically trolling

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Originally Posted by Aeonk

I call bullshit on that. The same arguement you made against procs could be used to counter your own ToAU job favoritism preference.

"You still have a reasonable chance of getting the KI after each kill, even if you don't proc. Or getting seals to drop without grellow. Sure it's not as efficient as bringing X,Y, and Z but that's ok."

Sound familiar?

You can't adopt a "well these jobs do good enough" attitude for ToAU content like nyzul isle then conveniently forget to apply that same mentallity for abyssea.

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No it's not, because the efficency difference is way different than ToAU era.

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Originally Posted by Aeonk

In ToAU, it was SAM + RDM + COR onry. With abyssea's system, jobs like NIN, BLM, WHM, BLU, MNK, and WAR got a little more attention and actually saw some use. Last I checked, 6 is > 3.

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Now see who's BSing

SAM+RDM+COR in ToAU? Wut? Are we playing the same game? You don't use BRD in merit pt? You don't bring MNK in salvage at 75? If your LS has a relic DRK or Mythic DRG you'd rather use Shinsoku SAM over Apoc DRK? Yes, SAM is bandwagon in ToAU era, but if you have a very pimp DD there are no reason not to use it and would rather use a naked SAM. However I'd rather use a naked WAR over Mythic DRG in Abyssea for KI farm in any way since no body cares about the pt killing speed and performance. Using differernt setup for Nyzul isn't half ass attitude, there are no reason to refuse a pimp DD to join the pt and go look for a bandwagon SAM. I see plenty of non-SAM DDs outparse bandwagon SAMs in ToAU and outperform them, how often do you see none NIN WAR jobs farming KI in Abyssea?

Lumping DRG in with PUP and BST is so so so bad. I don't particularly care about how you and your friends perform. Anecdotal evidence really is the best evidence. Dragoon, however, currently holds the "Most powerful job in the game if given X, Y, Z gear" title. The biggie is Ryunohige, but it's no slouch without it. Kenkonken destroys Verethragna, too - the hell are you smoking?

Dragoon is a top-end DD who flops miserably in proc-land because they don't have crap for weapon access outside of lances.

PUP is a B-tier DD and pets will never, ever be competitive themselves until they're able to receive Haste/Song/Samba effects and all Corsair rolls. I wanted to inb4 "Pups are people too", but I guess you beat me too it. As I said earlier, the Wyvern being alive isn't important because of its own damage, it's important because it buffs Spirit/Soul jumps. That's the only important "Pet" portion of Dragoon.

Most importantly, I was looking more at Leon excluding Drg if procs were not an issue. I could care less what you think on the matter, considering all you're likely to do is huff around about how great pet jobs can be in the right hands and other such inane tripe. I don't like bad Wars any more than I like bad Pups. A good War is simply a hell of a lot better than a good Pup, and a good Drg is not very far behind a good War - a truly great Drg is miles ahead of the rest of the pack.