Wildskeeper Reive Feedback

Please adjust the yorcia wildskeeper reive. I can't find a group of players that even want to fight in this reive, they avoid it like a plague. I think the difficulty needs to be adjusted to fit the size of the zone and the number of players that normally attend... Everyone's nicknamed this the Tree Of Death, due to deathga spam, and when you try to fight support the frontline jobs everything agros to spell casting.


...and frankly, nobody wants to sit in a zone with 120 people fighting this dude for 8 hours (let alone any wildskeeper should last anything more than an hour), and if you do, shame on you! Go hug your loved ones and stop calling into work!

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Originally Posted by Angrykitty

Please adjust the yorcia wildskeeper reive. I can't find a group of players that even want to fight in this reive, they avoid it like a plague. I think the difficulty needs to be adjusted to fit the size of the zone and the number of players that normally attend... Everyone's nicknamed this the Tree Of Death, due to deathga spam, and when you try to fight support the frontline jobs everything agros to spell casting.

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I agree with this. There's no reason there needs to be such a huge disparity in difficulty between Yumcax and the rest of the WKRs.

My thoughts on how to fix it:
-Give a larger area to fight. You can literally see the mobs from the point you zone in. Either you're fighting in a bunch of adds or in the middle of everybody.
-Lower Yumcax's AoE damage. There's no reason that nearly every ability it has needs to nearly one-shot everyone in range.
-Lower Yumcax's AoE range. It's difficult to heal tanks when you have to stand in range of every single ability. If you get doomed with the tank(s), you don't have enough time to cursna yourself and the tank, especially while weakened.
-Lower the linking/aggro range of the adds. They're always joining the fight, even if they seem to be out of range.
-Eliminate Yumcax's and the add's party hate. One person aggroing an add at the front shouldn't spell death for everyone else in the zone due to party hate bringing mobs to the entrance.

I'm not saying everything on the list needs to be done, but one or two of them would make it much less miserable.

This system is so flawed it's mind numbing, I just left a Kamihr Drifts Wildskeeper Reive after fighting a few hours with 70+ people because the progress being made was virtually nil. With a 20% Colonization Rate all nukes by mages were doing 0 damage. The only damage to Kumhau was coming incredibly slowly from a few SMN.

Why was this ever thought to be a good idea to completely zero out any nukes below a certain colonization rate yet somehow only a few other jobs are ok to always do damage like SMN with avatars, COR quick draw, or GEO with exploding luopans? All this does is frustrate people and make them not want to ever bother with the content. Whether the colonization rate is 0 or 100 I feel all damage should scale accordingly so at least you can make *some* steady progress towards the goal of winning the fight and everyone can at least feel like they are contributing and get credit for it. Please fix it.

I think either the base DT should be 50% and decrease by 10% every 20% rate till its at 0% and we can deal full damage, or, the rate should scale completely and not in tiers, so that at 1% we deal 1% DMG, not 0% DMG no matter what unless we have 20~21% and above.

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Originally Posted by Indigla

This system is so flawed it's mind numbing, I just left a Kamihr Drifts Wildskeeper Reive after fighting a few hours with 70+ people because the progress being made was virtually nil. With a 20% Colonization Rate all nukes by mages were doing 0 damage. The only damage to Kumhau was coming incredibly slowly from a few SMN.

Why was this ever thought to be a good idea to completely zero out any nukes below a certain colonization rate yet somehow only a few other jobs are ok to always do damage like SMN with avatars, COR quick draw, or GEO with exploding luopans? All this does is frustrate people and make them not want to ever bother with the content. Whether the colonization rate is 0 or 100 I feel all damage should scale accordingly so at least you can make *some* steady progress towards the goal of winning the fight and everyone can at least feel like they are contributing and get credit for it. Please fix it.

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You know, I entered this thread specifically to mention what happened on Bismarck over the weekend.

There were two Kumhau runs on Sunday. The first started out fine, I guess because a pack of people did some local Reives before actually shouting ofr people. But when Kumhau hit ~25%, the Colonization Rate dropped to 20%, and so everybody that had been dealing damage without any problems up until that point were suddenly stonewalled. That's ridiculous.

I didn't stick around for the second Kumhau. I bought my key item, entered, saw I was doing no damage, and just left. Waste of Bayld, sure, but I wasn't going to kill fodder mobs for hours while a few select jobs poke the lion.

While the Colonization Rate mechanic is a great idea on paper, there's still not enough incentive to do the smaller Reives in that zone, especially in the Drifts. For me, at least, even with Trust magic, the Colonization Reives are fairly difficult to solo. There's way too many mobs, they hit relatively hard, they build resistance to sleep, and monsters on the other side of the ice walls are able to cross through and help their friends attack you. Either the difficulty of those Reives should be reduced, or some more unique rewards need to be added to them to encourage people to start doing them regularly in groups.

The assortment of failed Yumcax and Kumhau bouts on Bismarck have also illuminated a few other mechanics issues with Reives. First, half the people in the Reive area are AFK. They poke a mob once, park at the entrance, and then just stand there and wait for their Sparks and Key Items to drop. On top of that, as a small group of SMNs and CORs are massaging Kumhau to a slow and laughable death, there's a metric ton of DDs running around killing fodder mobs unhindered. It's obnoxious. "I'm going to let three people do all the work for hours, and after contributing next to nothing in the grand scheme, I'm going to walk away with some sweet gear, and that awesome COR is going to get a Flint Stone."

I don't know how to address this. If you make things too strict, they'll end up like Campaign where Beastman-controlled zones stay that way perpetually because nobody wants to whack a wall for hours just to get 200 Allied Notes. Maybe making it so that Colonization rate also determines the maximum quanity of rewards that you can receive. At 20% or Below (Kumhau takes no damage from regular sources), everyone can receive one item at most. To get the maximum of five items, the Colonization rate needs to be brought up to 80% or higher. Or something. I don't know.

Nothing short of a guaranteed pluton case would make me attend a Yumcax or Kumhau wildkeeper reive ever again.
I suffered through half a dozen of each of these when they were popular and about a month ago I tried one of these that dragged on for hours and just ate the bayld loss and left because the overall skill of the playerbase participating in these has degraded significantly (people showing up to just spam stone 1 and run around like an idiot is not skillful play) and the numbers of attending players is much smaller as well.

Kumhau might be worth going to if they added more hp to the trash mobs, anyone not a mage can never hit the damn things with a melee weapon because they die soon after spawning to a shower of Stone 1 spam from a bunch of skirmish geared noob blms. If colonization ever remained high enough for everyone to even chip away at Kumhau aside from corsairs, people might go.

Yumcax is just an mpk fest, too little room to recover from the fight, the best geared players if unsupported are usually the first to die at these because again, noone comes to heal front line players, everyone comes on a mage job to spam stone and look out for only themselves. Increasing the magic resistance of the monsters and making them more susceptible to melee damage would dramatically improve how people participate in this fight. Also increasing the doom counter might reduce the massive (hilarious) wipes i've seen happen in this WKR.

In general these fights are not *fun* to participate in, trash monsters either are too deadly if player numbers are low (panopts in yumcax) , or when participation is high, these monsters pose no threat at all and become frustrating because they die too quick for non mage jobs to close to melee range and attack.
You might want to consider adding a couple mini-boss type monster that have much higher HP in future wildkeepers that strikes a middle ground between the main boss that takes over an hour to kill, and trash that dies in under 30 seconds.

Now lets talk about rewards:
RME materials (all 3) used to be somewhat of a valuable reward encouraged participation in WKR
What little incentive remained for those of us that were capped on gear disappeared when you added the revamped bcnms, and then started throwing RME mats/cases into those battles and the AA fights.
There is 2 JSE capes i'd like to get, but honestly its not worth suffering through a WKR reive to *maybe* get it. I've done hundreds of reives, tens of each wildkeeper reive and still dont have them, so i've moved on.
Your records of eminence objectives got everyone to do all the wildkeepers again for 1 weekend, but now its back to noone bothering to do them.

As far as I can see the first 3 WKR are alright. On my THF + WHM dualbox I can usually, though not always, keep my THF alive. When my THF has enmity that's when things get iffy. That's fine and well and good, thf + whm should not be able to essentially solo a WKR. The problem is the later 3, where my THF will get one-shotted with no chance of ever surviving it. I can be thf/run with a bar spell and two runes up and take 1k more damage than my hp while in -dt and +hp gear. That's absurd. Why would I want to go to a fight that every 5-30s I am going to die and be unable to do anything for 5min?

My thoughts exactly Eaglestrike. If you go and tickle Kumhau/Hurkan/Yumcax as a melee, usually within a minute you're one-shotted and it's back to afking for 5-10 minutes.

Not exactly what I'd call fun, especially when you already have the main rewards and the chances of obtaining a pluton are rather low.

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Originally Posted by Leonardus

Hurkan

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I've personally never had a problem with Hurkan. Static Prison can be a bitch, but afair it's never 1-shot me in tp gear with Shell5 and barthundra. Kumhau and Yumcax on the other hand...

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Originally Posted by Catmato

I've personally never had a problem with Hurkan. Static Prison can be a bitch, but afair it's never 1-shot me in tp gear with Shell5 and barthundra. Kumhau and Yumcax on the other hand...

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Yeah right. Static Prison has NEVER done less than 2400 with Shellra V Barthundra and 50 cap PDT/MDT on.

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Originally Posted by Karah

Yeah right. Static Prison has NEVER done less than 2400 with Shellra V Barthundra and 50 cap PDT/MDT on.

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Okay you're right. Its definitely 1-shot me (more often than not, actually). Here are my logs:

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[20:53:05]Hurkan uses Static Prison.
[20:53:05]Catmato takes 128 points of damage.

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[20:55:52]Hurkan uses Static Prison.
[20:55:52]Catmato takes 2784 points of damage.

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[21:17:29]Hurkan uses Static Prison.
[21:17:29]Catmato takes 1460 points of damage.

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[00:11:09]Hurkan uses Static Prison.
[00:11:09]Catmato takes 2242 points of damage.

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[00:24:41]Hurkan uses Static Prison.
[00:24:41]Catmato takes 2089 points of damage.

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[01:49:14]Hurkan uses Static Prison.
[01:49:15]Catmato takes 3120 points of damage.

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[02:00:14]Hurkan uses Static Prison.
[02:00:14]Catmato takes 1007 points of damage.

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[07:36:44]Hurkan uses Static Prison.
[07:36:44]Catmato takes 2283 points of damage.

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All of those are on WHM, but I can't guarantee Shell5 and barthundra were up for all of them.

That's on whm with magic defense bonus trait, and you still take massive damage....

Whm should never even be the one getting hit by it.

Melee's get devastated by this absurd tp move without the extra;

Magic Defense Bonus VI

Obtained: White Mage Level 91
Magic Defense Bonus +20

So whm is the job that takes the LEAST damage from it (aside from RUN and PLD).

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Originally Posted by Karah

So whm is the job that takes the LEAST damage from it (aside from RUN and PLD).

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True, but that's all in TP gear.

Edit: I guess Espial does have a silly amount magic of evasion and MDB+18.

This morning, I logged in to see a Japanese yell that said the following:

{Yorcia Weald} {Wildskeeper Reive} 0% ... {Thank you.}

So, there's at least one person who appreciates the colonization changes.

I think WKRs are fantastic. The difficulty is well balanced. The rewards are substantial. And if you get enough people together, they can be really fun.

The only problem I have, is actually getting the people together! *cough* merge servers *cough* :p

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Originally Posted by Griblit

I think WKRs are fantastic. The difficulty is well balanced. The rewards are substantial. And if you get enough people together, they can be really fun.

The only problem I have, is actually getting the people together! *cough* merge servers *cough* :p

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WKR issue isn't really server issue. To clear WKR in reasonable amount of time, you need like 50+ or even 100 people for higher tier, or else it'd go on forever.

So most people just afk in zone, or join when it's 40% when there are 50~100 people in zone, making the NM fight even longer.

I wonder why SE go out to adjust delve party requirement, but not WKR. Delve requires 9~18 players and it's considered way too many by SE, WKR requires 50+ and there's still no word about adjustment.

The problem I have with WKRs, aside the need to shout for what seems like an eternity to get people to come and fight, are Trust NPCs.
Whenever I enter a WKR all I see is a sea of Trusts. Why would you rather summon Trusts instead of forming a party with real people is beyond me. I can understand if you're a melee, soloing minions to get buffs.
But when everyone cries for a PLD to hold the boss and when a PLD actually does come and gets aggro he's left alone to die because everyone is too busy spamming Stone on the boss or killing minions with Mihli and Lion. This is especially true with Kamhir Drifts' WKR, which is reasonably more challenging than the others. I saw a friggin' Aegis PLD getting pummeled to death because no one was curing him, and my SMN heals aren't exactly optimal for the task.
I also see people bringing mobs or even the boss to where all the weakened people are resting, just for the hell of it I presume. This is a direct result of a lack of experience in party-oriented environments. We shouldn't be able to kill everything with Stone/WS spamming. Not everything is a GoV party.

I guess this doesn't have much to do with SE and WKR as much as it has to do with players (lack of) cooperation skills. And I'm not that sure about not allowing Trusts in this kind of large scale events. I just wish players would at least consider the option of actually playing together instead of in their little NPC party.

Hopefully SE will consider calibrating future additions with more parties and less Trusts in mind. I understand population is not what it used to be anymore, but promoting further isolation is not the answer.

Can I have your stuff?

Here is my feedback Square Enix as a tank. For the last three Wildskeeper Reives I have tanked the NM for 2+ hours straight. I don't get to afk, I don't get to watch Youtube videos or anything else. For two or more hours I am constantly trying to stay alive and keep the NM off of the rest of the group. I have been doing this as RUN not PLD. The best drop I got after a cumulative 7+ straight hours of nonstop tanking was from Hurkan. That drop was a Handful of Iron Sand. Guess who isn't tanking another WKR? Way to go Square. I'm not expecting a great drop everytime but if tanks are going in here and putting 2+ hours in tanking these things I think they deserve more than a piece of vendor trash. Or keep it like it is, we don't have to go anyway. For the posts above mine, this is why you can't get anyone to go. You are going to be hard pressed to find a tank that is willing to come in there and bust their butt for hours on end only to walk out of there when it's over with Iron Sand and needing to cap xp again.

Yumcax mustve been designed by a sadist, because there's nothing good to be said about it. The arena, mobs, tp moveset, all of it is terrible.
You know your content is bad when even a hobby-AFKer loses patience waiting for the end.

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Originally Posted by Alexandero

Here is my feedback Square Enix as a tank. For the last three Wildskeeper Reives I have tanked the NM for 2+ hours straight. I don't get to afk, I don't get to watch Youtube videos or anything else. For two or more hours I am constantly trying to stay alive and keep the NM off of the rest of the group. I have been doing this as RUN not PLD. The best drop I got after a cumulative 7+ straight hours of nonstop tanking was from Hurkan. That drop was a Handful of Iron Sand. Guess who isn't tanking another WKR? Way to go Square. I'm not expecting a great drop everytime but if tanks are going in here and putting 2+ hours in tanking these things I think they deserve more than a piece of vendor trash. Or keep it like it is, we don't have to go anyway. For the posts above mine, this is why you can't get anyone to go. You are going to be hard pressed to find a tank that is willing to come in there and bust their butt for hours on end only to walk out of there when it's over with Iron Sand and needing to cap xp again.

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For what it's worth, I tank all of them on mnk/run with my whm mule so I imagine that anyone who can scrape together a couple of friends should be able to do the same. I die occasionally and some other DD has to try to stay alive for a few minutes, but it's rarely a big deal. I don't think many people realize that you can just throw DDs at these things. The biggest issues I run into are it takes too long and mages who want to go nuke crazy and then kite it through all the healers and weakened people.

WHM and RUN take dramatically reduced damage from SP due to native MDB, melee's don't. Due to how MAB/MDB work, having a 20+ native boost makes a huge difference in the final damage taken. When I fought hurkan as a 99BLU with typical 119 gear and no Shell / Enhanced Barthunder (WHM's gives MDB) it did about 4000 damage, Hurkan has some insane MAB. On RUN though it barely scratch's me, the paralyze effect is worse then the damage. This is why melee's are completely useless on it, they simply die too quickly to be useful.

Assuming Hurkan does 4000 damage because he has +300 MAB and is doing a 1k damage attack to you while you have +0 MDB:
1000*((100+300)/100) = 4000 damage

Now assuming you have 22 MDB because you're on level 99 RUN, you should take:
1000*((100+300)/(100+22)) = 3278 damage


So no, the dramatic reduction you observe is not due to MDB.

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Originally Posted by bloodbeat

Yumcax mustve been designed by a sadist, because there's nothing good to be said about it. The arena, mobs, tp moveset, all of it is terrible.
You know your content is bad when even a hobby-AFKer loses patience waiting for the end.

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yeah Yumcax is the worst -.-

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Originally Posted by saevel

WHM and RUN take dramatically reduced damage from SP due to native MDB, melee's don't. Due to how MAB/MDB work, having a 20+ native boost makes a huge difference in the final damage taken. When I fought hurkan as a 99BLU with typical 119 gear and no Shell / Enhanced Barthunder (WHM's gives MDB) it did about 4000 damage, Hurkan has some insane MAB. On RUN though it barely scratch's me, the paralyze effect is worse then the damage. This is why melee's are completely useless on it, they simply die too quickly to be useful.

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I tank it on mnk/run with my whm mule. DDs aren't completely useless, they just need some support.

I know that a lot of people probably wouldn't be able to pull it off, but the other day I was able to beat Hurkan by myself. The only 'assistance' I had was from Ulmia, Joachim, and Cherukiki tossing the occasional buff at me, but all the damage came from me. I was DNC/RUN. Kept Barthunder and two Tellus up, and whenever he used Crashing Thunder to activate his aura, I would do Rudra's Storm -> Reverse Flourish -> Rudra's Storm (Darkness), and then used Swipe or Lunge. This would do enough earth damage to break his aura and get the !!s. Below 25% it becomes very important to break the aura as soon as it appears, as Static Prison is an at-will from that point, but without the aura the damage it does is mitigated. Took me about 90 minutes to crush that bird. Not something I'd want to repeat often, but it just goes to show that there are ways to deal with WKRs in ways that people might not have thought of or tried.

Id like to suggest and it may have been tossed out there already, but I will suggest it again then ^^...

New WKR "Style" Fights. Toss Kefka at us, or the Witches like Ultameicia, Roll over us with OZMA, hehe ... I like WKR fights and I love all the old Final Fantasies. I think it would be fun to have some more WKR fights tossed into the game. I dont think they all need to have a story behind them sometimes its fun to just gang up on an old baddie.

;)

I have a "solution" that could overhaul the activity present in WKR's:

Make the "aged box" of HP Bayld a far more common drop. If people going in and contributing well can get 5-15 of an item presently selling on my server for 30k/each, they'll go and focus on what they're doing. As well, the bayld market is somewhat being held up by reive botters and this would bring the bayld production back into the hands of legitimate players. Also, Ergon weapons are at about twice the cost of Mythics, so it might help lower the overall cost there, too.

For my feed back, I'd personally like to see the Delve Boss Items return and stay as drops from the WKR. I have still yet to get an actually win from Delve and I'd like some other chance to get the items I need for reforge without have to shell out hand over fist
for everything. I'd rather farm my items if at all possible.

Bring back the WKR campaign.. there's a very low supply of high purity bayld going around.

Yutunga Jungle and Yoat need WKR too =D