HNMs and the future of FFXI

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trisscar

If you can make it work in an efficient maner I don't see the problem with melee Red Mages. Wish more people would put the effort into it, honestly.

---

As do I, the community's overbearing opinion that RDM can not melee leaves the impression on people both new and old that it is completely impossible to do with any efficiency, however due to new gear released for the job, and Temper/Gain-spells, the jobs melee power is actually somewhat good.

Its not that RDM Can't melee... Its just that can't melee well. On a scale of effective Melee, RDM is Below THF and slightly above SMN and BLM.

And I honestly put forth the challenge a SMN Melee could Out-DD a RDM Melee if you consider their Avatar's output, Because Shattersoul is beastly.

No no, you must include the fast that they can also use enspells to maximize their damage output...

I'm asking you to change to PLD, because it's the closest job in-game that reflects your White Knight, viewpoints.
Also, enlight will beat the shit out of your en-spells.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Habu

No no, you must include the fast that they can also use enspells to maximize their damage output...

---

Which sounds like Fupafighter's idea that for some reason a RDM would/should melee using enspells and kraken club as its form of DPS, not sure why people have this idea.

As for RDMs not meleeing well I disagree, not that my opinion matters anyways.

Could we not turn this into a melee RDM thread? We already have an entire sub-forum for that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cidbahamut

Could we not turn this into a melee RDM thread? We already have an entire sub-forum for that.

---

Agreed, so here's a post more on topic, and is an actual suggestion:

Why not have a multi-tier monster that requires special conditions (like it can only be spawned in weather/day matching its aligned element, for example) and also can't be spawned again by anyone in the alliance for (say) 3 real life days (where as the ??? Respawns after 15 minutes)?

Would make using bots pointless, and it makes more sense than reinstating the old HNM system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Demon6324236

As for RDMs not meleeing well I disagree, not that my opinion matters anyways.

---

If you have proof and math, two things that go hand in hand, to back up your claims, your opinion matters very much.

Even back during the great RDM Melee thread of 2010, I always supported the idea of RDM meleeing, and I hoped someone would bring some math or evidence forth to support its viability. I was hoping there would be 1 RDM who could Melee, Enfeeble, Cure/etc and do his jobs to the best function and participate and provide proof of concept for the idea RDM Could melee and still do their job effectively.

It never came.

Be that guy. - But post it in the RDM melee Forum i guess. Crappy Outdated Content is serious business (HNMs I mean)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trisscar

Agreed, so here's a post more on topic, and is an actual suggestion:

Why not have a multi-tier monster that requires special conditions (like it can only be spawned in weather/day matching its aligned element, for example) and also can't be spawned again by anyone in the alliance for (say) 3 real life days (where as the ??? Respawns after 15 minutes)?

Would make using bots pointless, and it makes more sense than reinstating the old HNM system.

---

So how would this work? A lot like ZNM, actually.

Now, someone on the boards have made the claim that Square wants to introduce elemental Wyrms as the end game for SoA. I haven't seen any references backing up this claim, but to explain how this works I'll accept it as being factual.

The player is told there are Wyrms that live in the area, and are told that these venerable beings are regarded as to being god-like. So there is a certain ritual if one wishes an audience with one. First you need an offering (which is combined from the trophies of other NM), then they need to take it to the region where their element holds domain and on their summoning day. But they will only appear if you have an appropriately sized procession (meaning you need a minninum of 18 people in your alliance), and you are warned that the Wyrms are not the play things of the whims of mortal kind (meaning you can't summon it again for another 3 days, win lose or draw), and further the Wyrms may quickly become bored and leave (you have a time limit of two hours to beat it or it flies off).

Edit: nevermind think i misread something.

http://i.imgur.com/QmZpm.png

And a new meme was born.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kojo

http://i.imgur.com/QmZpm.png

---

thats funny.

hey it could be worst..
it could read

" i use to be an active thread like you... then i took a gm to the knee"

>.>;; (yes i had to.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trisscar

Agreed, so here's a post more on topic, and is an actual suggestion:

Why not have a multi-tier monster that requires special conditions (like it can only be spawned in weather/day matching its aligned element, for example) and also can't be spawned again by anyone in the alliance for (say) 3 real life days (where as the ??? Respawns after 15 minutes)?

Would make using bots pointless, and it makes more sense than reinstating the old HNM system.

---

outside the 3 day personal cool down I like. Something similar to what I suggested.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rosina

outside the 3 day personal cool down I like. Something similar to what I suggested.

---

I think the 3 day cool down is probably the best way to go, personally. One the things that the old HNM campers are complaining about is the fact you can spawn Voidwatch monsters practically unlimited times, stones permitting. Honestly I see what they're getting at there.

This way they get the long cool down they like and we don't get the 'hurry up and wait four hours for an over camped HNM' type system that is never going to make a return don't matter how much they want to keep on posting like if they're better than everyone else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trisscar

I think the 3 day cool down is probably the best way to go, personally. One the things that the old HNM campers are complaining about is the fact you can spawn Voidwatch monsters practically unlimited times, stones permitting. Honestly I see what they're getting at there.

This way they get the long cool down they like and we don't get the 'hurry up and wait four hours for an over camped HNM' type system that is never going to make a return don't matter how much they want to keep on posting like if they're better than everyone else.

---

I just wanna be there as help, and have to wait three days to try it myself.. if the gear is infact something that i find nice to own.

locking out content with long cool down timers is never a good thing.

think only ppl who want long timers just wanna be seen as saints of L33tness. (which is poor reason to have a long timer)

Let me put it this way, then: Being able to spawn (for example) Kaggen 50 times in the same day may seem good at first glance, but it's a quick way to get burned out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trisscar

Let me put it this way, then: Being able to spawn (for example) Kaggen 50 times in the same day may seem good at first glance, but it's a quick way to get burned out.

---

I see the opposite. I think it's far easier to get burned out on HNM than on something more active and engaging like VW. Is there a lot of repetition in VW? Yeah there is. I prefer that over the tedium of HNM though. VW leaves me wanting more. HNM makes me want to leave more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camiie

I see the opposite. I think it's far easier to get burned out on HNM than on something more active and engaging like VW. Is there a lot of repetition in VW? Yeah there is. I prefer that over the tedium of HNM though. VW leaves me wanting more. HNM makes me want to leave more.

---

Not only that, but VW always rewards even if not in the way you want. When doing VW you will always get cruor and at least some sell-able items unless you get 24 Petrifacts in which case, sucks to be you. Cruor is typically an amount around 15~20k, 15k cruor is roughly 38k gil if you convert it via Chocobo Blinker runs. So far as it is on Phoenix, Dust is 20~25k and cells are 50~60k a stack meaning per fight you spend roughly 30~40k for each fight and make back around 38k or more before NPCable items. Either way you get something more from doing VW than you do from waiting on HNMs.

Oy rosina stop double posting...

IF the HNM's loot table only consisted of gear that could be obtained from forced pop/abyssea/VW etc then sure.

Once the content comes out - I'll laugh when all of the people preaching HNM are force popping rather than sitting at the timed spot for 3 days.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Smeggles

IF the HNM's loot table only consisted of gear that could be obtained from forced pop/abyssea/VW etc then sure.

Once the content comes out - I'll laugh when all of the people preaching HNM are force popping rather than sitting at the timed spot for 3 days.

---

So would I... But then I would think of the time and effort wasted into making those HNM and curse these punks that kept the energy from being put into something more useful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nala

Oy rosina stop double posting...

---

Rosina already said they cant cause they are on PS3 which has a text limit...

Actually, you know what? Fine. Bring HNM back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zaluchi

I don't want it near schools! I don't want it sold to children! That's an infamnia. In my city, we would keep the traffic in dudes like bechnyi. They're animals anyway, so let them lose their souls.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by scaevola

Actually, you know what? Fine. Bring HNM back.

---

What the heck was that about (that defined as what that person was going on about in your quote)? o.o

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=They%27re+anima...se+their+souls

Since I see little to no Galka response in this thread, I'm going to take the time to express my opinion. I'm not going to bother with quoting people as there is so much inside of this thread that I'm going to talk/rant about that it hardly seems I should even post after reading every single post in this thread.

Let me start off with a bit of background. I'm on Fenrir, and I started playing this game when I was 9 years old in 2003 on off-time when I wasn't playing baseball or doing whatever school needed of me. In 2004, I met Halojade and Tolone (still my best friends) and joined TheLightWarriors HNM LS, who were the first NA group to successfully kill KB without stealing or wiping, from 100% -> 0%. BTW...no, I didn't get barely anything from TLW except the intense experience of sky, einherjar, salvage, HNM, etc. from back in the good days.

I am all for HNM and I would like to see it come back to life with everything that it had including 24-hour spawns, 72-hour HQ spawns, and gear you could ONLY get at these HNMs. This concept was a great addition to people that enjoyed the challenge of claiming (whether it be by bot or hand) and killing. I agree with Habu, this is the best form of adrenaline that a game could ever have. The feeling you get is indescribable especially before the day and age of 'bots'.

A change of topic...why in God's name would it be even remotely OK to have the same item drop in different places? Please, enlighten me where else you would get an E.Body, Ridill, D.Ring, A.Body, Homam, etc? It has not been implemented to acquire these items in different areas...why start now?

I think the idea of being 'burned out' is completely ridiculous and should be thrown out the window. I don't understand this concept, and I never will. The CLOSEST I think this term is useful is the idea of Abyssea. It is extremely tedious and boring to kill the same NM (BY POPPING, NOT BY SPAWNING) to get 50 of the same item to upgrade a weapon. It is fun the first couple of times, but wow does it get borrrrring. Camping an HNM is boring...there is no doubt about that. But when that spawn window opens for 30seconds, EVERYONE is on the EDGE OF THEIR SEAT tabbing out and looking to claim, WAITING for that adrenaline rush you went out to the spawn to get.

Oh, by the way, may I remind some of you that camping HNMs...is completely up to you? If you don't like it, go away and go build more empyreans or farm dynamis or limbus or einherjar...you get the idea. Do all of the repetitive suff you have been doing for years and years to come and stay away from the one thing that you could get...and you could claim. Let the people that want to do it....do it. Don't bring us down to your level of repetitive boringness(not a word, I know). All in all, keep it to yourself. IT IS A CHOICE TO CAMP AN HNM! YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DO IT!

A lot of you by now are sitting in your comfortable chair (or uncomfortable, however you like to roll) and are thinking "demon you nub bots are like the only way to ever get something and thats what everybody uses and thats the only way you will ever get far in this game and i dont have a whm to follow me around to do all that and blahlbahlablahlablalhalblah". Me neither. I don't have that luxury. But here is what separates you from me...

I don't give up. It takes more than an outclaim or a death to stop me from saying "I'm done this sucks." All of you people complaining about bots in your little abyssea parties or claiming the lol??? before you...man up, make a macro, and spam. Spamspamspamspam. It's not. That. Hard. "Yeah but it didn't even show up!! There was no ??? !!" You lagged. Or you weren't tabbing fast enough. Or you didn't have a macro set. Or you just didn't try. One of those reasons always prevail. There is no more packet sniffing in FFXI. Things don't 'pop claimed' anymore. Unless you see someone get instantly banned (which does happen) then they were doing the same thing you were doing, but they were better at it. Plus, the people complaining about bots in abyssea parties...they are doing your job better than you are.

MY MAIN POINT BEING...IF YOU DON'T WANT HNMs BACK...WHY? Are you really trying to null other players' likes? WE LIKE HNMs, THE SELECT FEW OF US OLD PLAYERS. At LEAST let us live a bit inside of this game instead doing all of your weak shit. Yeah, I do it, out of pure boredom and because it is WAY TOO EASY.

This is my first post on these forums, and probably my last. I'll get trolled and yelled at of course, because everyone loves to do that now. I'm 18 and I'm over it. Where are you?

I smell a sock puppet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Demonmaniac

A change of topic...why in God's name would it be even remotely OK to have the same item drop in different places? Please, enlighten me where else you would get an E.Body, Ridill, D.Ring, A.Body, Homam, etc? It has not been implemented to acquire these items in different areas...why start now?

---

You can get E.Body from Odin and Niddy; the wall of text has been conquered. Good game. Not that it matters since this is clearly a troll post.

Yes, I'm sure that those people who daisy chained 20 accounts together with one claim bot were really on the edge of their seats while waiting to claim their 15th pop in a row.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Demonmaniac

...I don't give up. It takes more than an outclaim or a death to stop me from saying "I'm done this sucks."...This is my first post on these forums, and probably my last. I'll get trolled and yelled at ...

---

An outclaim or death can't stop you. But, a forum troll, that is a different story. Thanks for swinging by.

To be honest after reading most of the posts and threads on here it seems this whole forum community is 90% based of casual players and need to stop complaining the games not easy enough for you News flash Most of our original player base quit the game because of the lack of challenges. Also ton of casual gamer's like to be underhanded and back stab 1 another. some of the things that made a lot of people quit the game is because the casual gamer have too much control. As in people Join Linkshells to Leech off clear or Items needed and leave without a ruining they'r reputation. "Rinse wash repeat" scenario repeats itself and this what happened to all the servers making the game unplayable to most hardcore players. The game is already too "Casual" Making others quit because there is no long term goal for others who seek it. As for the Casual Stuff I'm sorry but there is already too much Casual Gear for everyone please introduce some old school HNM pops And HNM force pops that requires you to work as team to take it down for old skoolers, ZNM was the HNM force pops that require you to work together defeat the mob as team to reap its reward wear its armor with satisfaction.

The simple solution is to make "cool" looking gear with Special Stats on these HNM and HNM force pops to the game. I'm stating the obvious what this game needs and wants, Most player base each server wants So again Casual Gamers stop being so greedy with this game we all want both sides of fun and hardcore of this game. its FFXI which Suppose to have both hardcore and Fun(casual) and cultural(JP,NA,EU Mixed) not WOW where its (Casual only) most of came back to the game to have fun and play hardcore (sometimes) =/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seallux

To be honest after reading most of the posts and threads on here it seems this whole forum community is 90% based of casual players

---

9 out of 10 players are casual? No friggin' way! SE needs to know about this, because the way they design content you'd think the game consisted of 90% hardcores.

Quote:

---

and need to stop complaining the games not easy enough for you News flash Most of our original player base quit the game because of the lack of challenges.

---

Really? You polled them all? Some people may have quit over lack of challenge, I don't disagree with that. Some also quit because they considered the game too hard or tedious. Some quit because of real life obligations. Some quit for social reasons. Some quit from burnout. Some found other games to play. Some quit for financial reasons. Come on, get serious here. People quit for as many reasons as there are people.

Quote:

---

Also ton of casual gamer's like to be underhanded and back stab 1 another.

---

From what I've seen, the ones most likely to do bad things are the ones with the most pressure on them to succeed. Those aren't usually the casual types.

Quote:

---

some of the things that made a lot of people quit the game is because the casual gamer have too much control. As in people Join Linkshells to Leech off clear or Items needed and leave without a ruining they'r reputation. "Rinse wash repeat" scenario repeats itself and this what happened to all the servers making the game unplayable to most hardcore players.

---

I've seen hardcore players do this. Being hardcore doesn't necessarily make someone loyal or honest. Being casual doesn't make someone a drain on society or give them a criminal mindset.

Quote:

---

The game is already too "Casual" Making others quit because there is no long term goal for others who seek it.

---

If you don't see any long term goals then you're not looking hard enough. Even if there weren't any, there's plenty of short term goals to chase after if you so choose.

Quote:

---

As for the Casual Stuff I'm sorry but there is already too much Casual Gear for everyone please introduce some old school HNM pops And HNM force pops that requires you to work as team to take it down for old skoolers, ZNM was the HNM force pops that require you to work together defeat the mob as team to reap its reward wear its armor with satisfaction.

---

We already have HNMs and HNM force pops that force one to work as a team to take down.

Quote:

---

The simple solution is to make "cool" looking gear with Special Stats on these HNM and HNM force pops to the game. I'm stating the obvious what this game needs and wants, Most player base each server wants So again Casual Gamers stop being so greedy with this game we all want both sides of fun and hardcore of this game. its FFXI which Suppose to have both hardcore and Fun(casual) and cultural(JP,NA,EU Mixed) not WOW where its (Casual only) most of came back to the game to have fun and play hardcore (sometimes) =/

---

The only thing I got out of this last paragraph was that casual equals fun. If that's the case then casual content is obviously the proper form of content for A GAME, don't you think?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seallux

To be honest after reading most of the posts and threads on here it seems this whole forum community is 90% based of casual players and need to stop complaining the games not easy enough for you News flash Most of our original player base quit the game because of the lack of challenges. Also ton of casual gamer's like to be underhanded and back stab 1 another. some of the things that made a lot of people quit the game is because the casual gamer have too much control. As in people Join Linkshells to Leech off clear or Items needed and leave without a ruining they'r reputation. "Rinse wash repeat" scenario repeats itself and this what happened to all the servers making the game unplayable to most hardcore players. The game is already too "Casual" Making others quit because there is no long term goal for others who seek it. As for the Casual Stuff I'm sorry but there is already too much Casual Gear for everyone please introduce some old school HNM pops And HNM force pops that requires you to work as team to take it down for old skoolers, ZNM was the HNM force pops that require you to work together defeat the mob as team to reap its reward wear its armor with satisfaction.

The simple solution is to make "cool" looking gear with Special Stats on these HNM and HNM force pops to the game. I'm stating the obvious what this game needs and wants, Most player base each server wants So again Casual Gamers stop being so greedy with this game we all want both sides of fun and hardcore of this game. its FFXI which Suppose to have both hardcore and Fun(casual) and cultural(JP,NA,EU Mixed) not WOW where its (Casual only) most of came back to the game to have fun and play hardcore (sometimes) =/

---

There's nothing "Hardcore" or difficult about HNM spawns. It's a botfest. If you were hardcore, you would know that. You casuals don't wanna fight hard stuff anymore huh? Just want to sit around doing nothing and wait for a NM to pop up and give you some shines huh? Sorry guy, not gonna happen. Get back to farming VW / Abyssea / NIU / Legion. Quit being so greedy and having them add more world spawns when you don't even kill the ones they have in game already.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seallux

*snip wall of stupidity*

---

I was around for the HNM times, but I never participated in camping them until recently (solo and for a Blue Mage spell) but I'd imagine it's a lot like camping Guku was at first.

Keeping up Invissible, sitting around waiting for the spawn, keeping your finger on the flash macro, hoping yours gets off before the competing group can claim, insults flying around, hacks being used, etc. It was a terrible, stress inducing experience I don't ever want to go through ever again.

Does any of this sound even remotely familiar? Because camping HNM is as to fun as water boarding is to friendly conversation.

to tell u the truth. i personally loved trying to get king a on my rdm back in the day and lets face it at 75 trying to melee him down WAS a challenge . same with serket. i don't want 21-24 as much as i want alot more lotto spawns. i want mobs our lv that are like ose or even sith (before dancer) his cloth drop was like 200k but the reason i killed him was cause of how hard he was. people didn't really camp him. but u first had to pull him to were u could fight him. me and my buddy rebel. had loads of fun duoing that stuff. (btw anyone know were they moved sith?)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camiie

9 out of 10 players are casual? No friggin' way! SE needs to know about this, because the way they design content you'd think the game consisted of 90% hardcores.




Really? You polled them all? Some people may have quit over lack of challenge, I don't disagree with that. Some also quit because they considered the game too hard or tedious. Some quit because of real life obligations. Some quit for social reasons. Some quit from burnout. Some found other games to play. Some quit for financial reasons. Come on, get serious here. People quit for as many reasons as there are people.



From what I've seen, the ones most likely to do bad things are the ones with the most pressure on them to succeed. Those aren't usually the casual types.



I've seen hardcore players do this. Being hardcore doesn't necessarily make someone loyal or honest. Being casual doesn't make someone a drain on society or give them a criminal mindset.



If you don't see any long term goals then you're not looking hard enough. Even if there weren't any, there's plenty of short term goals to chase after if you so choose.



We already have HNMs and HNM force pops that force one to work as a team to take down.



The only thing I got out of this last paragraph was that casual equals fun. If that's the case then casual content is obviously the proper form of content for A GAME, don't you think?

---

this person obviously needs metal help but other than that i think my post was mis read at some point or even read at all.
i'll keep it simple and sweet ok. "The game Needs Outside Content like HNM Time pops not like kings i'm talking about 2-4 hour time spawns and Force spawns (you trade pop monster in case don't know what that is) mobs should take least party 6 or more take downs" you know something that takes effort it would be nice to see some gil items aswell crafting items to introduce more Armors that buy-able can be okay enough to wear if don't have Rare/ex gear of the higher places.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seallux

this person obviously needs metal help but other than that i think my post was mis read at some point or even read at all.

---

No they don't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seallux

i'll keep it simple and sweet ok. "The game Needs Outside Content like HNM Time pops not like kings i'm talking about 2-4 hour time spawns and Force spawns (you trade pop monster in case don't know what that is) mobs should take least party 6 or more take downs" you know something that takes effort it would be nice to see some gil items aswell crafting items to introduce more Armors that buy-able can be okay enough to wear if don't have Rare/ex gear of the higher places.

---

What would you call these new spawn NMs? I suggest the name "Voidwatch Notorious Monsters".

This is a game, a game comprised mainly of "casuals" aka they are the gross paying customer, if you are not attempting to cater to the masses you are failing in politics, PR, and MMO game design, why? because they are who are paying you, not some drooling bunch of nostalgia glasses wannabe elitist's who'd rather sit around a zone for 3-4 hours to feed their E-peen, seriously go watch some paint dry its about as exciting.

There was no part about HNM that was ever good, this game though has a few bottle necks widely is meant to be cooperative PvE not PVP, your sick sense of competition over a single point failure system where winning the claim restricts the rest of the servers access to that content for the next 4-24 hours (depending on which HNM system you're trying to get SE to subscribe to) this is poor game design extremely poor game design yet you call us the mental patients?

Ultimately this game is meant to be enjoyed admittedly many of us find different forms of enjoyment however a game it still is, if you want to play a game where you gain satisfaction from sucking away other peoples enjoyment play a real competitive game like modern warfare or battlefield (have to be good to ruin others day at those types of games however)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seallux

this person obviously needs metal help but other than that i think my post was mis read at some point or even read at all.

---

"Metal" help? Well, I do need a lot more heavy metal plates...

Quote:

---

i'll keep it simple and sweet ok. "The game Needs Outside Content like HNM Time pops not like kings i'm talking about 2-4 hour time spawns and Force spawns (you trade pop monster in case don't know what that is) mobs should take least party 6 or more take downs" you know something that takes effort it would be nice to see some gil items aswell crafting items to introduce more Armors that buy-able can be okay enough to wear if don't have Rare/ex gear of the higher places.

---

As Frank said, what you describe is Voidwatch. It's already there waiting for you. Yes it doesn't have timed spawns, but it has everything else you're asking for already.