[dev1047] Thoughts/Feedback on "Legion"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mahoro

Er ok, that wasn't where I was going with that, but sure, I agree. But while it may be true, there is no reason to speed up that process (or open it up to exploitative behavior) by allowing all Abyssea gear to be purchased by cruor, or all Limbus gear to be purchased by beastcoins. Each event would soon be worthless because nobody would ever fight the actual bosses. When Joe Schmoe and his 17-mule Fell Cleave ally can purchase complete sets of +2 from the NPC, that's when you know the event is DOA.

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Except in the cases your comparing it to (abyssea / limbus) They would have to add a charge just to enter the event (360k per limbus / abyssea run?!? 0.o), and take away all time extensions so that you had 30 minutes per event. Then they would have to make it so that cruor / beast coins only dropped from NMs instead of dropping off of ep mobs. Just imagine the price of ABCs lol.

But then again, if they had done that with abyssea, you wouldn't care about legion, because you would still be trying to gather all your +2 gear right now.

Joe schmoe isn't stupid enough to try and fell cleave Rani with 17 naked WHM mules, and even if he was, who cares?

In summary, being able to buy the gear with points or w/e in legion makes perfect sense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Except in the cases your comparing it to (abyssea / limbus) They would have to add a charge just to enter the event (360k per limbus / abyssea run?!? 0.o), and take away all time extensions so that you had 30 minutes per event. Then they would have to make it so that cruor / beast coins only dropped from NMs instead of dropping off of ep mobs. Just imagine the price of ABCs lol.

But then again, if they had done that with abyssea, you wouldn't care about legion, because you would still be trying to gather all your +2 gear right now.

Joe schmoe isn't stupid enough to try and fell cleave Rani with 17 naked WHM mules, and even if he was, who cares?

In summary, being able to buy the gear with points or w/e in legion makes perfect sense.

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There is a charge to enter Limbus, and when it was first released and people were doing it with 12+ people, it cost 360,000+ 0.o Anyway, you could think of tons of differences between Abyssea, Limbus, and Legion. My point was that most of each event would lay untouched if you could just spam the same mobs over and over and amass points to buy the best gear. In Abyssea/Limbus, it was EP mobs. In Legion, we don't know what it is yet. You chose Rani for your example, one of the toughest NM's in Abyssea. Obviously Joe Schmoe wouldn't fell cleave that. In fact, nobody would ever fight it after getting Shinryu access if you could purchase the Epona's Ring from killing trash mobs. Do you think people will ever touch Paramount Botulus or some of the other harder Legion mobs if they could get every single drop from farming the easier mob types? It doesn't make sense from a design perspective. I am unconvinced that paying 360,000 and having a 30 minute event (which has no cooldown) entitles you to that scenario simply because there is a lack of "traditional EP mobs."

Don't get me wrong though, I hope drop rates in Legion are very forgiving and the stuff you can buy with points is good. I am sick of 0.001% drop rates and want to see people actually walk out of Legion with stuff besides logs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mahoro

There is a charge to enter Limbus, and when it was first released and people were doing it with 12+ people, it cost 360,000+ 0.o Anyway, you could think of tons of differences between Abyssea, Limbus, and Legion. My point was that most of each event would lay untouched if you could just spam the same mobs over and over and amass points to buy the best gear. In Abyssea/Limbus, it was EP mobs. In Legion, we don't know what it is yet. You chose Rani for your example, one of the toughest NM's in Abyssea. Obviously Joe Schmoe wouldn't fell cleave that. In fact, nobody would ever fight it after getting Shinryu access if you could purchase the Epona's Ring from killing trash mobs.

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I have a really hard time believing that legion is going to be a room full of ep-em mobs that are so weak that you can mow through them with 1-2 people. Everything you are saying is assuming that there will be fodder mobs that drop great gear. If the mobs are that weak, then joe schmoe will just plow through them, and get everything for his mules anyways, point system or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mahoro

Do you think people will ever touch Paramount Botulus or some of the other harder Legion mobs if they could get every single drop from farming the easier mob types? It doesn't make sense from a design perspective. I am unconvinced that paying 360,000 and having a 30 minute event (which has no cooldown) entitles you to that scenario simply because there is a lack of "traditional EP mobs."

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Why would fodder mobs be worth the same amount of points as botulus legion guy? why not make the points from fodder mobs so small in comparison that it would be foolish to attempt to get good gear that way? or just assign 2 different point systems. One for regular gear, and one for NM gear, that can only be attained from NMs? like they do with trophies and cruor. There has to be a million different ways to implement a point system that would be more fair and predictable than dumb luck.

On a side note, if your against joe getting his gear the easy way... why support a system that might give him the best drop on his first run?

You keep drawing similarities to the EP-EM mobs of other events when that isn't my point. I know very well there are no EP mobs in Legion, which you can tell from the last post of mine you quoted. I also never assumed the weaker Legion mobs will drop great gear. I don't expect them to, because judging from the list of mobs there appear to be a series of NM's and "Paramount" bosses IIRC.

You are the one who advocated for a system where killing weaker NM's over and over again will get you access to the best drops in the event. I'm saying if that were the case in previous events like Abyssea and Limbus, the hardest NM's would lay untouched. That is bad from a design perspective and an exploitative perspective. I'm actually in support of the points ideas or trophy idea you stated, which someone else echoed from several pages back. So we agree on that.

In the end, I think it's premature to continue this discussion till we know more about the event.

Personally, I am kind of worried about specific NMs only dropping specific items since Legion points apparently won't buy you items dropped inside. So, unless there's a certain level of predictability in a given foe making an appearance, it's possible a group/alliance could go a number of runs without seeing a mob they'd like. This gets even worse if the desired foe is particularly cheesy, like the difference between Rani and Sippoy even though both are caturae. Finally, you'll have the actual drop rate to take into consideration, which only invites drama if you're looking at 36 people wanting the same thing that drops rarely that may have a 1/x chance showing. It's shades of Leech King and Argus, really.

Now, this isn't to say mobs can't share loot pools, but it'll probably be something like 5% to access all the available head pieces, then whatever percentage is based on those numbers. So, if there were 5 possible head armors, that'd be 20% chance for one you want against that 5%, for a 1% drop rate per kill. That just gets worse the more you possibilities you add, like with all the different weapon types.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mahoro

You keep drawing similarities to the EP-EM mobs of other events when that isn't my point. I know very well there are no EP mobs in Legion, which you can tell from the last post of mine you quoted. I also never assumed the weaker Legion mobs will drop great gear. I don't expect them to, because judging from the list of mobs there appear to be a series of NM's and "Paramount" bosses IIRC.

You are the one who advocated for a system where killing weaker NM's over and over again will get you access to the best drops in the event. I'm saying if that were the case in previous events like Abyssea and Limbus, the hardest NM's would lay untouched. That is bad from a design perspective and an exploitative perspective. I'm actually in support of the points ideas or trophy idea you stated, which someone else echoed from several pages back. So we agree on that.

In the end, I think it's premature to continue this discussion till we know more about the event.

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If the object isn't to kill as many mobs as possible, then what is the point? Why not just make them instanced if people are just going to be able to pick the one bad ass mob and spam it? Why not just say "360k to pop botulus legion guy"? I thought the whole point of this event was to spam as many mobs as possible. If its just going to be "Pay 360k and get a chance at fighting that one NM that has the cool drop.." then they might as well just add the mobs to voidwatch.

My hope for legion was to have it like a Boss Battle mode in many single player games:
You fight tougher and tougher HNM's in sequence until you get to the final baddie. You try to do this before you time out. The further you get the more points you accrue. Points are then spent on good gear.

If you want add temps and time extensions at certain way points to maybe extend the event to one hour. It's not dissimilar to einherjar or salvage except you eliminate the trash mobs and just have players defeating the big bosses and seeing how far they can get.

This eliminates the risk of people just doing trash mobs for points.

But sadly SE always seems to want to complicate things and I suspect legion will have its share of complications.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mirabelle

My hope for legion was to have it like a Boss Battle mode in many single player games:
You fight tougher and tougher HNM's in sequence until you get to the final baddie. You try to do this before you time out. The further you get the more points you accrue. Points are then spent on good gear.

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That's kinda how I imagine the dungeon crawl system to be like. Or I'd like it to be, rather. So far I'm pretty happy about what SE told us about Legion as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

If the object isn't to kill as many mobs as possible, then what is the point? Why not just make them instanced if people are just going to be able to pick the one bad ass mob and spam it? Why not just say "360k to pop botulus legion guy"? I thought the whole point of this event was to spam as many mobs as possible. If its just going to be "Pay 360k and get a chance at fighting that one NM that has the cool drop.." then they might as well just add the mobs to voidwatch.

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As far as I know, the point is to kill as many mobs as possible, including but not limited to the bad ass ones. I don't think they intend for people to find the easiest mob and spam it for points, but Camate can speak to that better than I can.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mahoro

As far as I know, the point is to kill as many mobs as possible, including but not limited to the bad ass ones. I don't think they intend for people to find the easiest mob and spam it for points, but Camate can speak to that better than I can.

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From what we've been told each monster will have its own drops so if you want a certain drop you'll have to repeat a chamber and possibly plow through a set or two to get access to the NM you want.

Lets just say for example one chamber has the 3 kings which then is followed by the reskins followed by a Paramount mob. To get a paramount drop you'd have to beat the wave one, wave two and then beat the Paramount.

If each monster has a unique drop you might see individuals picking a certain mob to kill only while saccing the others away to get the desired mob to pop.

That's good if they don't all pop at once when you enter. It will give incentive to do the event rather than sac everything and search for the boss (or trash mobs). It will be more like Mirabelle stated above, where you fight tougher and tougher HNM's in sequence.

Some intrepid fellow found that some of the stuff that was taken out of the .dats a while back has been put back in.

I hope folks like long lists that have been copy-pasted after a quarter-assed double-check, because here it comes! As a bonus, some of this stuff probably doesn't even come from Legion. Some of this stuff might not even be new. I might have accidentally cut out a new item or two while haphazardly eliminating Relics/Mythics/Empyreans from this list to make it slightly less huge. With that said, here's a bunch of stuff:

Legion Chest 1
DEF:70 STR+10 DEX+10 Attack+12
Critical hit rate +3%
Set: Haste+6%
Lv96 WAR, PLD, DRK, BST, DRG

Legion Chest 2
DEF:65 DEX+9 AGI+9 MND+9
Accuracy+10
Ranged Accuracy+10
Haste+4%
Set: Increases rate of critical hits
Lv96 MNK, THF, RNG, SAM, NIN, COR, PUP, DNC

Legion Chest 3
DEF:52 HP+40 MP+40 INT+10 MND+10
CHR+10 "Magic Atk. Bonus"+5
"Cure" potency +5%
Set: Magic Accuracy+5
Lv96 WHM, BLM, RDM, BRD, SMN, BLU, SCH

Legion Chest 4
DEF:67 STR+10 DEX+10
Accuracy+10 Attack+10
Evasion-15 Critical hit rate +4%
Lv97 WAR, PLD, DRK, BST, SAM, NIN

Legion Chest 5
DEF:60 STR+5 AGI+10
Ranged Accuracy+15
Ranged Attack+15
Lv97 RNG, COR

Legion Chest 6
DEF:55 INT+15
Magic Accuracy+5
"Magic Attack Bonus"+8
Adds "Refresh" effect
Lv99 WHM, BLM, RDM, BRD, SMN, SCH

Legion Chest 7
DEF:70 STR+15 DEX+15 Accuracy+20
Attack+20 Haste+3%
Critical hit rate +2%
Adds "Refresh" effect
Lv99 WAR, PLD, DRK, BST, SAM, DRG

Legion Chest 8
DEF:55 INT+10 MND+10
"Magic Attack Bonus"+10
Enhances "Fast Cast" effect
Enmity-10
Lv99 WHM, BLM, RDM, SMN, SCH

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Rheic Korazin / +1 / +2 / +3 / Phorcys Korazin
All Lv99 WAR, PLD, DRK, BST, SAM, DRG

DEF:68 STR+12 Attack+3%

DEF:68 STR+12 Attack+3%
"Magic Attack Bonus"+5

DEF:69 STR+12 Attack+3%
"Magic Attack Bonus"+3
Increases weapon skill damage

DEF:69 STR+14 Attack+4%
"Magic Attack Bonus"+5
Increases weapon skill damage

DEF:70 STR+16 Attack+5%
"Magic Attack Bonus"+7
Increases weapon skill damage
Set: Increases STR, VIT, INT, MND

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Euxine Coat / +1 / +2 / +3 / Thaumas Coat
All Lv99 MNK, THF, RNG, NIN, BLU, COR, PUP, DNC

DEF:61 Accuracy+10 Haste+2%

DEF:61 Accuracy+10 Haste+2%
"Double Attack"+1%

DEF:62 Accuracy+10 Haste+3%
"Double Attack"+1%
"Triple Attack"+1%
"Quadruple Attack"+1%

DEF:62 Accuracy+10 Haste+3%
"Double Attack"+2%
"Triple Attack"+2%
"Quadruple Attack"+2%

DEF:63 Accuracy+12 Haste+4%
"Double Attack"+3%
"Triple Attack"+3%
"Quadruple Attack"+3%
Set: Increases STR, DEX, AGI, MND

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Tethyan Saio / +1 / +2 / +3 / Nares Saio
All Lv99 WHM, BLM, RDM, BRD, SMN, SCH

DEF:51 INT+7 MND+7 CHR+7

DEF:51 INT+7 MND+7 CHR+7
Enmity-8

DEF:52 INT+7 MND+7 CHR+7
Magic Accuracy+10
"Magic Attack Bonus"+4
Enmity-1

DEF:52 INT+8 MND+8 CHR+8
Magic Accuracy+12
"Magic Attack Bonus"+6
Enmity-3

DEF:53 INT+9 MND+9 CHR+9
Magic Accuracy+15
"Magic Attack Bonus"+8
Enmity-5
Set: Increases STR, MND, INT, CHR

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Legion Hands 1
DEF:32 DEX+6
Attack+15 Haste+2%
Set: Haste+6%
Lv96 WAR, PLD, DRK, BST, DRG

Legion Hands 2
DEF:29 STR+10 DEX+6 AGI+6
"Double Attack"+3%
Set: Increases rate of critical hits
Lv96 MNK, THF, RNG, SAM, NIN, COR, PUP, DNC

Legion Hands 3
DEF:24 MP+30 Magic Accuracy+7
Enhances "Fast Cast" effect
Enmity-4
Set: Magic Accuracy+5
Lv96 WHM, BLM, RDM, BRD, SMN, BLU, SCH

Legion Hands 4
DEF:28 HP+20 STR+8
Attack+10 Haste+4%
Lv97 MNK, THF, BST, RNG, NIN, BLU, COR, PUP, DNC

Legion Hends 5
DEF:28 STR+6 DEX+6
Accuracy+5
Attack+10 Haste+2%
Lv97 MNK, SAM, PUP

Legion Hands 6
DEF:25 Magic Accuracy+15
Enhances "Fast Cast" effect
Lv99 WHM, BLM, RDM, BRD, SMN, SCH

Legion Hands 7
DEF:29 Magic Accuracy+5
Enfeebling magic skill +10
Elemental magic skill +10
Dark magic skill +10
Blue magic skill +5
Lv99 WHM, BLM, RDM, SMN, BLU, SCH

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Rheic Mitts / +1 / +2 / +3 / Phorcys Mitts list
All Lv99 WAR, PLD, DRK, BST, SAM, DRG

DEF:29 STR+6 INT+6

DEF:29 STR+6 VIT+6 INT+6 MND+6

DEF:30 STR+7 VIT+7 INT+7 MND+7
Attack+11 "Double Attack"+1%

DEF:30 STR+8 VIT+8 INT+8 MND+8
Attack+13 "Double Attack"+1%

DEF:31 STR+9 VIT+9 INT+9 MND+9
Attack+15 "Double Attack"+2%
Set: Increases STR, VIT, INT, MND

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Euxine Gloves / +1 / +2 / +3 / Thaumas Gloves
All Lv99 MNK, THF, RNG, NIN, BLU, COR, PUP, DNC

DEF:26 AGI+6 Accuracy+5

DEF:26 DEX+6 AGI+6
Accuracy+5

DEF:27 DEX+6 VIT+6 AGI+6 Accuracy+5
Enhances "Fast Cast" effect
Haste+2%

DEF:27 DEX+7 VIT+7 AGI+7
Accuracy+7
Enhances "Fast Cast" effect
Haste+2%

DEF:28 DEX+8 VIT+8 AGI+8
Accuracy+9
Enhances "Fast Cast" effect
Haste+3%
Increases STR, DEX, AGI, MND

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Tethyan Cuffs / +1 / +2 / +3 / Nares Cuffs
All Lv99 WHM, BLM, RDM, BRD, SMN, SCH

DEF:22 MP+2%
MP recovered while healing +3

DEF:22 MP+2%
MP recovered while healing +3
Avatar: "Magic Atk. Bonus"+5

DEF:23 MP+2%
"Magic Attack Bonus"+7
MP recovered while healing +3
Avatar: "Magic Atk. Bonus"+5

DEF:23 MP+2%
"Magic Attack Bonus"+10
MP recovered while healing +3
Avatar: "Magic Atk. Bonus"+5

DEF:24 MP+3%
"Magic Attack Bonus"+13
MP recovered while healing +4
Avatar: "Magic Atk. Bonus"+8
Set: Increases STR, MND, INT, CHR

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Rheic Dirs / +1 / +2 / +3 / Phorcys Dirs
All Lv99 WAR, PLD, DRK, BST, SAM, DRG

DEF:49 Attack+18
"Store TP"+5

DEF:49 VIT+8
Attack+18
"Store TP"+5

DEF:50 DEX+8 VIT+8
Attack+20 "Store TP"+2 Haste+4%

DEF:50 DEX+9 VIT+9
Attack+22 "Store TP"+4
Haste+5%

DEF:51 DEX+10 VIT+10
Attack+24 "Store TP"+6 Haste+6%
Set: Increases STR, VIT, INT, MND

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Euxine Kecks / +1 / +2 / +3 / Thaumas Kecks
All Lv99 MNK, THF, RNG, NIN, BLU, COR, PUP, DNC

DEF:45 HP+30 Haste+4%

DEF:45 HP+30
Attack+8 Haste+4%

DEF:46 HP+30 STR+7 AGI+7
Accuracy+10 Attack+10 Haste+4%

DEF:46 HP+35 STR+8 AGI+8
Accuracy+12 Attack+13 Haste+5%

DEF:47 HP+40 STR+9 AGI+9
Accuracy+14 Attack+14 Haste+6%
Set: Increases STR, DEX, AGI, MND

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Tethyan Trews / +1 / +2 / +3 / Nares Trews
All Lv99 WHM, BLM, RDM, BRD, SMN, SCH

DEF:40 MP+1% MND+12

DEF:40 HP+2% MP+2% MND+12

DEF:41 HP+3% MP+3% MND+12
"Cure" potency +3%

DEF:41 HP+3% MP+3% MND+13
"Cure" potency +5%

DEF:42 HP+4% MP+4% MND+14
"Cure" potency +7%
Adds "Refresh" effect
Set: Increases STR, MND, INT, CHR

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Legion Leggings 1
DEF:26 STR+8 DEX+5
Enmity+4 Haste+2%
Set: Haste+6%
Lv96 WAR, PLD, DRK, BST, DRG

Legion Leggings 2
DEF:23 DEX+6 AGI+6 Evasion+5
Haste+2% "Subtle Blow"+5
Set: Increases rate of critical hits
Lv96 MNK, THF, RNG, SAM, NIN, COR, PUP, DNC

Legion Leggings 3
DEF:19 MND+9 CHR+9
"Magic Attack Bonus"+5
Magic Defense+5
Enmity-7
Set: Magic Accuracy+5
Lv96 WHM, BLM, RDM, BRD, SMN, BLU, SCH

Legion Leggings 4
DEF:23 MP-20 STR+5
Accuracy+8 Evasion+8
Addle +5%
Lv99 WHM, BLM, RDM, BRD, SMN, PUP, SCH

Legion Leggings 5
DEF:28 STR+6 VIT+6 Accuracy+5
"Store TP"+4 Haste+2%
Lv97 WAR, THF, PLD, DRK, BST, BRD, DRG

Legion Leggings 6
DEF:24 DEX+10 AGI+10 Haste+4%
Critical hit rate +3%
Enhances "Snapshot" effect
Lv99 MNK, THF, RNG, NIN, BLU, COR, DNC

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Rheic Schuhs / +1 / +2 / +3 / Phorcys Schuhs
All Lv99 WAR, PLD, DRK, BST, SAM, DRG

DEF:26 Physical damage taken -3%

DEF:26 Accuracy+8
Physical damage taken -3%

DEF:27 Accuracy+8
Physical damage taken -3%
"Double Attack"+1%
Enemy TP accumulation -6
when physical damage taken

DEF:27 Accuracy+10
Physical damage taken -4%
"Double Attack"+2%
Enemy TP accumulation -8
when physical damage taken

DEF:28 Accuracy+12
Physical damage taken -5%
"Double Attack"+3%
Enemy TP accumulation -10
when physical damage taken
Set: Increases STR, VIT, INT, MND

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Euxine Nails / +1 / +2 / +3 / Thaumas Nails
All Lv99 MNK, THF, RNG, NIN, BLU, COR, PUP, DNC

DEF:24 DEX+7 AGI+7

DEF:24 DEX+7 AGI+7 MND+7

DEF:25 DEX+7 AGI+7 MND+7
Attack+10
Ranged Attack+10
"Double Attack"+1%

DEF:25 DEX+8 AGI+8 MND+8
Attack+12
Ranged Attack+12
"Double Attack"+2%

DEF:26 DEX+9 AGI+9 MND+9
Attack+14
Ranged Attack+14
"Double Attack"+3%
Set: Increases STR, DEX, AGI, MND

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Tethyan Clogs / +1 / +2 / +3 / Nares Clogs
All Lv99 WHM, BLM, RDM, BRD, SMN, SCH

DEF:19 MND+6 CHR+6

DEF:19 HP+1% MP+1% MND+5 CHR+5

DEF:20 HP+1% MP+1% MND+6 CHR+6
Magic Accuracy+4
"Magic Attack Bonus"+4

DEF:20 HP+2% MP+2% MND+6 CHR+6
Magic Accuracy+5
"Magic Attack Bonus"+5

DEF:21 HP+3% MP+3% MND+8 CHR+8
Magic Accuracy+7
"Magic Attack Bonus"+7
Set: Increases STR, MND, INT, CHR

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Lunette Ring
Latent effect:
Magic Defense+7
Lv99 All Jobs

Legion Ring 1
STR+5
Enchantment: Attack+10
Lv96 All Jobs

Legion Ring 2
DEX+5
Enchantment: Accuracy+10
Lv96 All Jobs

Legion Ring 3
VIT+5
Enchantment: DEF+30
Lv96 All Jobs

Legion Ring 4
AGI+5
Enchantment: Evasion+10
Lv96 All Jobs

Legion Ring 5
INT+5
Enchantment:
"Magic Attack Bonus"+3
Lv96 All Jobs

Legion Ring 6
MND+5
Enchantment: Magic Defense+3
Lv96 All Jobs

Legion Ring 7
CHR+5
Enchantment: Magic Accuracy+8
Lv96 All Jobs

Legion Ring 8
"Double Attack"+1%
Legion: Accuracy+8
"Double Attack"+2%
Lv96 All Jobs

Legion Ring 9
Occ. quickens spellcasting +1%
Legion: Magic Accuracy+4
"Magic Attack Bonus"+4
Lv96 All Jobs

Legion Ring 10
Ranged Attack+7
"Subtle Blow"+7
Lv99 All Jobs

Legion Ring 11
DEF:15 VIT+3 Enmity+5
Lv99 All Jobs

Legion Ring 12
Magic Accuracy+3 Enmity-5
Lv99 All Jobs

Legion Ring 13
Potency of "Cure" and Waltz"
effects received +3%
Lv96 All Jobs

Legion Ring 14
Magic Accuracy+5
Legion: "Magic Attack Bonus"+5
Adds "Refresh" effect
Lv97 WHM, BLM, RDM, BRD, SMN, SCH

Legion Shield 1
DEF:35 VIT+10
Physical damage taken -7%
"Slow"+2%
Lv99 WAR, PLD

Legion Belt 1
DEF:14 ≺Element: Fire≻+25
Attack+10 Haste+2%
Lv96 All Jobs

Legion Belt 2
DEF:5 HP+20 ≺Element: Fire≻+15 ≺Element: Ice≻+15
≺Element: Air≻+15 ≺Element: Earth≻+15 ≺Element: Thunder≻+15
≺Element: Water≻+15 ≺Element: Light≻+15 ≺Element: Dark≻+15
Lv96 All Jobs

Legion Belt 3
DEF:7 Magic Accuracy-15
"Magic Attack Bonus"+7
Magic critical hit rate +10%
Lv99 WHM, BLM, BRD, SMN, PUP, SCH

Hyeysti Helm
DEF:42 STR+10 "Store TP"+7
Enhances "Resist Paralyze" effect
Lv97 WAR, PLD, DRK, BST, SAM, NIN

Legion Helm 1
DEF:43 STR+7 Attack+15
Haste+4%
Set: Haste+6%
Lv96 WAR, PLD, DRK, BST, DRG

Legion Helm 2
DEF:37 STR+5 DEX+5
Attack+10 Haste+5%
Set: Increases rate of critical hits
Lv96 MNK, THF, RNG, SAM, NIN, COR, PUP, DNC

Legion Helm 3
DEF:30 HP+30 STR+5 INT+8 MND+8
Magic Accuracy+5
Set: Magic Accuracy+5
Lv96 WHM, BLM, RDM, BRD, SMN, BLU, SCH

Legion Helm 4
DEF:30 INT+9 MND+9 CHR+9
Magic Accuracy+2 Enmity-5
Lv97 WHM, BLM, RDM, BRD, SMN, SCH

Legion Helm 5
DEF:33
Dark magic skill +15
Ehances the effect of "Drain" and "Aspir"
Lv97 BLM, DRK, SCH

Legion Helm 6
DEF:25 AGI+5
Ranged Accuracy+17
Lv97 THF, RNG, COR

Legion Helm 7
DEF:30 INT+10 MND+10 CHR+10
Magic Accuracy+12
"Magic Attack Bonus"+12
Legion: Magic critical hit rate +10
Lv99 WHM, BLM, RDM, BRD, SMN, BLU, PUP, SCH

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Rheic Salade / +1 / +2 / +3 / Phorcys Salade
All Lv99 WAR, PLD, DRK, BST, SAM, DRG

DEF:34 Attack+7

DEF:34 Accuracy+7 Attack+7

DEF:35 Accuracy+6 Attack+6
"Store TP"+1 Haste+5%
"Subtle Blow"+1

DEF:35 Accuracy+8 Attack+8
"Store TP"+3 Haste+6%
"Subtle Blow"+3

DEF:36 Accuracy+10
Attack+10 "Store TP"+5
Haste+7% "Subtle Blow"+5
Set: Increases STR, VIT, INT, MND

------------------------------------

Euxine Hat / +1 / +2 / +3 / Thaumas Hat
All Lv99 MNK, THF, RNG, NIN, BLU, COR, PUP, DNC

DEF:32 STR+5 AGI+12
Ranged Attack+5 Magic Accuracy+3

DEF:32 STR+5 AGI+12
Ranged Attack+5 Magic Accuracy+3

DEF:33 STR+5 AGI+12
Ranged Attack+2 Magic Accuracy+2
"Magic Attack Bonus"+2
Critical hit rate +2%

DEF:33 STR+5 AGI+13
Ranged Attack+4
Magic Accuracy+4
"Magic Attack Bonus"+4
Critical hit rate +3%

DEF:34 STR+6 AGI+14
Ranged Attack+6
Magic Accuracy+6
"Magic Attack Bonus"+6
Critical hit rate +4%
Set: Increases STR, DEX, AGI, MND

------------------------------------

Tethyan Cap / +1 / +2 / +3 / Nares Cap
All Lv99 WHM, BLM, RDM, BRD, SMN, SCH

DEF:27 INT+10 "Conserve MP"+4

DEF:27 INT+10
"Conserve MP"+4
Enhances "Fast Cast" effect

DEF:28 INT+10
"Magic Atk. Bonus"+3
Magic critical hit rate +3%
"Conserve MP"+4
Enhances "Fast Cast" effect

DEF:28 INT+11
"Magic Attack Bonus"+4
Magic critical hit rate +4%
"Conserve MP"+4
Enhances "Fast Cast" effect

DEF:29 INT+12
"Magic Attack Bonus"+5
Magic critical hit rate +5%
"Conserve MP"+5
Enhances "Fast Cast" effect
Set: Increases STR, MND, INT, CHR

------------------------------------

Lgn. Necklace 1
Club skill +8
Divine magic skill +5
Healing magic skill +5
Lv96 All Jobs

Legion Cape 1
DEF:17 Attack+15 Evasion+5
Lv96 WAR, MNK, RDM, THF, PLD, DRK, BST, BRD, RNG, SAM, NIN, DRG, BLU, COR, DNC

Legion Cape 2
DEF:18 HP+30 ≺Element: Fire≻+30
Occasionally absorbs
fire damage taken
Lv97 All Jobs

Legion Cape 3
DEF:10 Magic Accuracy+5
Augments "Absorb" spells
Enhances "Absorb" effects
Lv97 DRK

Legion Earring 1
STR+2 Attack+3
Lv96 All Jobs

Legion Earring 2
INT+2 Magic Accuracy+2
Lv96 All Jobs

Legion Earring 3
AGI+2 Evasion+3
Lv96 All Jobs

Legion Earring 4
DEX+2 Accuracy+3
Lv96 All Jobs

Legion Earring 5
CHR+2 Enmity-4
Lv96 All Jobs

Legion Earring 6
MND+2 Magic Accuracy+2
Lv96 All Jobs

Legion Earring 7
DEF:7 VIT+2
Lv96 All Jobs

Legion Earring 8
Increases resistance to
all status ailments
Lv96 All Jobs

Legion Earring 9
Blood Pact ability delay +5
Avatar: Increases "Blood Pact" damage
Lv99 SMN

Legion Earring 10
Magic critical hit rate +3%
Increases magic critical hit damage
Lv99 All Jobs

Legion Slacks 1
DEF:52 DEX+7 AGI+7 Attack+10
Evasion+5 Haste+2%
Set: Haste+6%
Lv96 WAR, PLD, DRK, BST, DRG

Legion Slacks 2
DEF:50 STR+5 DEX+5
"Store TP"+5 Haste+3%
Set: Increases rate of critical hits
Lv96 MNK, THF, RNG, SAM, NIN, COR, PUP, DNC

Legion Slacks 3
DEF:43 INT+8 CHR+8
Enhancing magic skill +6
Summoning magic skill +6
"Cure" potency +4% Enmity-5
Set: Magic Accuracy+5
Lv96 WHM, BLM, RDM, BRD, SMN, BLU, SCH

Legion Slacks 4
DEF:40 Accuracy-20 Attack-10
"Subtle Blow"+10
"Triple Attack"+5%
Lv96 WAR, RDM, THF, PLD, DRK, BST, BRD, RNG, SAM, NIN, DRG, BLU, COR, DNC

Legion Slacks 5
DEF:43 VIT+5 Enmity+10
Physical damage taken -2%
Lv97 WAR, PLD, DRK

Legion Slacks 6
DEF:50 STR+8 VIT+5 Accuracy+10
Attack+10 Evasion-10
Lv97 WAR, PLD, DRK, BST, SAM, NIN

Legion Slacks 7
DEF:30
Divine magic skill+8
Enfeebling magic skill+8
Summoning magic skill+8
Haste+3%
Lv99 WHM, BLM, RDM, SMN, BLU

Legion Slacks 8
DEF:45 CHR+10
Enhances "Fast Cast" effect
Avatar: Increases "Blood Pact" damage
Lv99 WHM, BLM, RDM, BRD, SMN, BLU, SCH

And here's weapons. Same deal. Copy-paste. One quarter of my ass. Etc.


Lgn. Gt. Katana 1
DMG:120 Delay:450 STR+10
Attack+10
"Store TP"-18
"Conserve TP"+10
Lv99 SAM

Lgn. Gt. Katana 2
DMG:120 Delay:464 "Store TP"+5
Enhances effect of skillchain bonuses
Lv99 SAM

Legion Scythe 1
DMG:145 Delay:513
Dark magic skill +10
Enhances effect of "Absorb" spells
Lv99 DRK

Legion Fists 1
DMG+35 Delay+60 STR+10
"Counter"+5
Occasionally counters
for severe damage
Lv99 MNK, PUP

Legion Fists 2
DMG+34 Delay+60 STR+5 "Counter"+2
Lv99 MNK, PUP

Legion Grip 1
"Double Attack"+3
Lv99 All Jobs

Legion Club 1
DMG:75 Delay:340 STR+6 MND-10
Haste+3%
Lv97 WHM, PLD

Legion Knife 1
DMG:49 Delay:195 AGI+10
≺Element: Air≻+10 Haste+2%
Lv99 THF, BRD, DNC

Legion Knife 2
(Not translated) Ｄ37 隔150 トリプルアタック+5%
Lv99 THF, BRD, DNC

Lgn. Gt. Sword 1
DMG:132 Delay:480 Attack+30
During Scarlet Delerium:
Damage taken +2% Enmity+10
Lv99 PLD, DRK

Legion Throw. 1
Damage taken +3%
Decreases enemy critical hit evasion
by 10%
Lv96 All Jobs

Legion Throw. 2
VIT+5 Enmity+2
Lv99 All Jobs

Good luck picking through all of this stuff that hasn't even been named yet in order to determine how excited or disappointed you should be. Please don't be too happy though, or it might turn out worse when it's actually named and implemented.

Devs,
Here is one major issue with treasure pools and time limits and it came up very often in WoE. When you are winning a lot that someone else doesn't want you to have, that instead they want one of their acquaintances, that person will hold up the lot/pass system to try and time you out from getting it. There should be some way to adress this.

Looking at this long list from the point of a White Mage, I notice that the only major upgrades we'll get are for Magic Accuracy and Magic Attack Bonus (basically meh). There are a handful of interesting pieces but aside from all jobs gear (so unless nobody else wants it, it drops like candy, or it is a result of points a White Mage will never get it) it is mostly a disappointment. Good luck to everyone's duel boxed White Mages, and good luck to all the White Mages who only play the job to get gear for other jobs, because apparently career White Mages are not allowed to get gear upgrades (perhaps I'm being a bit drama-ish but seriously, these days its all jobs gear or sidegrades for anything relating to healing or melee for White Mages... I suppose I can gear for Magic Accuracy and accept never having a Red Mage to cover me like I'd prefer).

Anyways, for the handful of pieces that looked like they could be something:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Legion Club 1
DMG:75 Delay:340 STR+6 MND-10
Haste+3%
Lv97 WHM, PLD

---

I guess this is how SE plans on having White Mages make up for all the "sidegrade gear" that drops a point of haste vs. lower level gear? Mind stat down wouldn't be a big deal if it wasn't a mod in just about every Club WS ever. I don't exactly see Paladins using this much either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Set: Increases STR, MND, INT, CHR

---

This appears on the Nares set, which appears to be an HQ of HQ on the all mages set. If we're lucky, it will be a big enough boost to warrant wearing a few of the pieces during WS. Otherwise the set is mostly for enfeebling or nuking, stuff I don't typically devote gear to with my strained inventory space.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Legion Leggings 4
DEF:23 MP-20 STR+5
Accuracy+8 Evasion+8
Addle +5%
Lv99 WHM, BLM, RDM, BRD, SMN, PUP, SCH

---

That's nice, I'll take my chances with Voidwatch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Nares Trews
All Lv99 WHM, BLM, RDM, BRD, SMN, SCH

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpankWustler

DEF:42 HP+4% MP+4% MND+14
"Cure" potency +7%
Adds "Refresh" effect
Set: Increases STR, MND, INT, CHR

---

The final upgrade to a set, much like Salvage. If you play other mage jobs that cure things or want the set bonus, I think it would be worth it, but since you can get that refresh bonus on a tacky looking subligar as an augment, I don't think so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Lunette Ring
Latent effect:
Magic Defense+7
Lv99 All Jobs

Legion Ring 1
STR+5
Enchantment: Attack+10
Lv96 All Jobs

---

Latents and Enchantments. Oh joy. I might remotely consider the ring if the Enchantment is 1/1, same deal for the latent if it doesn't suck. I don't think either will however.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Legion Ring 13
Potency of "Cure" and Waltz"
effects received +3%
Lv96 All Jobs

---

Great for soloing, now only if I can convince everyone ever to inventory -1 with this and macro it in... oh wait.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Lgn. Necklace 1
Club skill +8
Divine magic skill +5
Healing magic skill +5
Lv96 All Jobs

---

Interesting for the Club Skill. Not sure if it would be worth it yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Legion Earring 8
Increases resistance to
all status ailments
Lv96 All Jobs

---

Do want but if it is a drop I'm probably never getting one.

-

Basically, I see some nice gear, but for a White Mage, unless you are gear for magic accuracy or something, you could by and large do better in most cases. Considering that SE wants WHM to be the main healer, you'd think they'd try to get people who play career WHM to come rather then relying on everyone to dual box or play off class for gear.

I get the feeling that all the stuff labeled Legion [Thing Thing Number] drops in or is bought with points from Legion, but the three sets that are combined or upgraded over time or something will be found elsewhere.

I didn't cut it out along with the Relic/Mythic/Empyrean/not-new stuff because, hey, I could be wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

Devs,
Here is one major issue with treasure pools and time limits and it came up very often in WoE. When you are winning a lot that someone else doesn't want you to have, that instead they want one of their acquaintances, that person will hold up the lot/pass system to try and time you out from getting it. There should be some way to adress this.

---

They said they'll allocate 5 minutes after the battle purely for loot distribution (I'm guessing like in Einherjar), so that should make it impossible.

Quote:

---

Legion Fists 1
DMG+35 Delay+60 STR+10
"Counter"+5
Occasionally counters
for severe damage
Lv99 MNK, PUP

Legion Fists 2
DMG+34 Delay+60 STR+5 "Counter"+2
Lv99 MNK, PUP

---

I spy what looks like an NQ/HQ H2H where the NQ is normal and the HQ is glowy.

Perhaps those flaming fists the genkai taru had will be reused here.

My main beef with the mage stuff is a general lack of Haste. It's not a useless stat for them, but rare does it coincide with INT/MND/MATK/MACC pieces. Otherwise, they look to suffer from not all mages needing the same thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seriha

My main beef with the mage stuff is a general lack of Haste.

---

What's worse is when we do get haste on pieces, it is lowest common denominator haste, not upgraded haste. White Mage and Red Mage have ready access to the stuff while the other mages tend to have less.

Analysis:

Head pieces generally go to the all jobs gear, which got an upgrade from the ubiquitous turban to the new king of haste, the tiara. Body pieces have pretty much been Goliard Saio or go home, and I don't expect we'll see an upgrade until the Saio itself gets one. Belts got a slight upgrade in terms of ease of obtaining but are pretty much at the same values as before. Here are the Hands/Legs/Feet Haste values for WHM and RDM on the best old gear (75-) vs. the best new (76+) gear.
Hands 4% RDM, 4% New RDM Gear
Hands 6% WHM, 5% New WHM Gear
Legs 3% RDM, 4% WHM, 3% New Gear
Feet 3% RDM, 3% WHM, 2% New Gear

For Red Mage is hasn't been as bad since they have at least gotten upgrades from other stats while keeping the same levels of haste in many cases, but White Mages who are looking for something better then the HQ Blessed Set basically lose a point of Haste per piece of gear if they try to move to higher level gear, even on WHM specific gear that has haste! Neither one really got an upgrade to haste values outside of all jobs gear for the head slot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seriha

Otherwise, they look to suffer from not all mages needing the same thing.

---

I think the Development Bros have invented a drinking game around creating pieces which have INT paired with CHR or MND paired with CHR. I see entirely too many of such pieces for this to just be a coincidence.

Drinking Heavily and Inventing Pants with Funny Names:

"Rule 1. If the piece is still somehow good for something due to other stuff on it, take one drink.

Rule 2. If the piece would be good for something (even if that thing is just Inventory +1) if it had INT paired with MND, take two drinks.

Rule 3. If the piece makes less sense than putting a garter belt and a party hat on a frozen dead animal, finish the bottle.

Rule 4. If you think Summoner or Scholar can take advantage of MND paired with CHR for the weaponskill 'Scourge', put that bottle away. You've earned a promotion and you have a reputation to think about now!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Rule 4. If you think Summoner or Scholar can take advantage of MND paired with CHR for the weaponskill 'Scourge'

---

Don't be silly, they wouldn't do that since neither of those jobs can get access to that weapon skill.

By the way, I just found out what the STR on the Rubeus Spats is for, they want SCH/WAR to use Keen Edge, BLM/DRG to use Penta Thrust, SMN/BST to use Spinning Axe, and BRD/RNG to use Piercing Arrow.

Based on feedback received from players that participated on the test server meet-up the other day, the development team is planning some adjustments to the Legion system.

While a number of ideas are being looked into, I’d like to let you know about the battle related changes first.
*We will make some announcements about aspects other than battle in the future, so please wait a bit for those.

• Adjustments to special ability AoE
  Planning to reduce the effect range for AoE special abilities. Working currently to have this changed reflected in this week’s test server update.
• Changes to make it possible to try again after a wipe
  We will be performing two adjustments, which will create an area that will be safe from monsters as well as reducing monsters’ detection range.
  *There will be no changes to link range.
  These adjustments are planned to be implemented during next week’s test server update.

Please try out these changes once the test server is updated and let us know your thoughts!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camate

Based on feedback received from players that participated on the test server meet-up the other day, the development team is planning some adjustments to the Legion system.

While a number of ideas are being looked into, I’d like to let you know about the battle related changes first.
*We will make some announcements about aspects other than battle in the future, so please wait a bit for those.

• Adjustments to special ability AoE
  Planning to reduce the effect range for AoE special abilities. Working currently to have this changed reflected in this week’s test server update.
• Changes to make it possible to try again after a wipe
  We will be performing two adjustments, which will create an area that will be safe from monsters as well as reducing monsters’ detection range.
  *There will be no changes to link range.
  These adjustments are planned to be implemented during next week’s test server update.

Please try out these changes once the test server is updated and let us know your thoughts!

---

Will there be a NA legion event planned for after the update, or will it be another JP event we dont hear about until its over?

They already announced an NA event planned for the future.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sparthos

They already announced an NA event planned for the future.

---

must have missed that, last I heard they were only looking into it

They announced one? When is it? Why am I not seeing it in the Dev tracker?

They didn't announce one, they asked people to express their interest in attending one.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post269431

Doesn't sound like there's enough people interested?

Howdy!

I’d like to share some responses to feedback gained through the Legion event held on the Japan side as well as other feedback received.

Quote:

---

This may be because I have gotten used to the 2nd battle, but I can defeat the first 3 HNMs in about 15 minutes. However, I feel like the 2nd stage opponents are way too strong. They are too hard and I cannot chip away at them. I would prefer battles with more exhilaration.

---

I would hope that players get a better feel for each stage of battle as they attempt this content. Players should be able to advance further with each attempt as they get a better feel for the battles. I feel that the battles will become more exhilarating as players are able to complete them at a faster pace.

In addition, we will continue to make adjustments to the difficulty of the battles.

Quote:

---

I feel that every opponent is “an NM with powerful AoE attacks and lots of HP,” which makes the content monotonous and a bit lacking in variety…
Wouldn’t it be better to make this content more exciting by adding NMs with more individuality(such as NMs with low HP, but very powerful AoE or NMs who hardly use AoE attacks, but have very high HP)?

---

The individuality of each monster is displayed in their actions and behavior. Understanding the characteristics of the monsters is the key to defeating them. We will continually adjust AoE attacks, so if there are any attacks that are deemed too powerful, they will definitely be adjusted.

Quote:

---

My Valoredge automaton receives 300-400 damage from normal attacks, so this content is extremely difficult for me.

---

Thank you for providing us detailed statistics. We will use this as reference when evaluating potential adjustments. By the way, what was your enemy?

Quote:

---

Considering that I was only able to defeat 3 monsters my last try and that the difficulty was set so that about 6 monsters can be defeated by a good player, I feel like there is basically no room for error.

---

We have set the difficulty of the monsters so that players can defeat 6 monsters even if they do not play perfectly, as long as they thoroughly understand the monsters’ characteristics and behavior patterns.

Quote:

---

I don’t want the battles to come down to the point where everyone needs to just wipe and have one person hold the monsters until they can recover.

---

This is something we would certainly like to avoid, so we will continue to make adjustments to prevent this from happening.

Quote:

---

As I expected, if you participate in this content with 36 players, it is impossible to know what is going on between the two alliances. If you move close enough to read the opponents’ battle logs, you will probably die from AoE attacks. It is very difficult to coordinate with 36 players and some adjustments are necessary.

---

I apologize for certain AoE skills that reach too far. We were able to allow communication among 36 players through linkshells in the Legion test server event, but we believe that communicating as best possible within alliances is the key to this content.

Quote:

---

I would like the following spec to be changed: The temporary item obtained when you defeat an elemental can only be obtained by the player who defeated the elemental.

---

In exchange for the temporary item only being obtainable by the player who defeated the elemental, the temporary item has AoE effects. We have set up the battles so that they are not impossible to complete without the temporary item, so we would appreciate it if you view the temporary items as a bonus.

Quote:

---

I believe I read somewhere that if you are defeated, you can return to the lobby to recuperate, but I feel like this was never implemented. Does this refer to the fact that reraise is granted in the lotting room after you are kicked?

---

Yes, that is what we’re referring to. (Actually raise is granted, not reraise)
Even if every party member is defeated, players are not forcefully kicked from the area. Players can recuperate in the lobby, distribute loot and then leave the area.

Quote:

---

I feel like it is very difficult to lot on items during the battle, since we are very busy during battle and some players may be dead.

---

We are looking into allowing players to cast raise on defeated players as soon as every monster that has appeared is defeated.

Quote:

---

I believe it is good that we are allowed a window of time to decide whether or not to enter or leave a room. However, it bothered me that the announced time remaining until entrance changes every time you enter a room. Is the time still counted even after every player has left the room?

---

The announced remaining time is the remaining time available for the legion passes.
The sooner you enter the room after receiving your legion pass, the more time you have to prepare, so we hope players are able to allocate their time easily.
※In the test server update on 2/3(Fri), we changed the time displayed in the help text for legion passes to match the countdown format of the announced remaining time.

Quote:

---

The available time for legion passes is 5 minutes, so I have run out of time several times. Isn’t the available time for legion passes unnecessary?

---

This relates to the fundamental system of instanced areas, but if we do not implement a time limit for legion passes, it would be possible for a party to constantly claim an area, making the area inaccessible for other parties. We believe that 5 minutes is enough time to prepare for entering the room after receiving the legion pass, but do you feel like more time is necessary? If there are many requests to increase this time, we will look into it.

Quote:

---

I have not gotten involved much with the legion passes personally, so I may not be in a position to comment, but I am very grateful that entire alliances can warp to the area. However, if possible, I think it would be better if all 36 participants can warp to the area.

---

That would be very convenient, indeed, but we are currently unable to connect multiple alliances…

Quote:

---

I am not sure if this is a permanent spec, but I only received 1 dropped item (Dragon Chronicles) from an NM. Unless the drops are increased, people will stop participating in this content. I feel like 3-5 drops per NM defeated would be more fitting.

---

Incidentally, it seems like many players received only 1 drop per monster defeated in the Legion event, but it is certainly possible to receive multiple drops. Also, the expected drops are increased from the 2nd set of monsters on, so the more monsters you defeat, the more drops you will receive.

Regarding the quality of loot, this is determined by chance, so players will not always receive good items, but we will be sure to make adjustments so that players are not disappointed often.

Quote:

---

Regarding dropped loot, would it be possible to implement a system similar to Union boxes from Campaign Battles, in which a certain number of loot items, based on the number of opponents defeated, are placed in the loot pool at the end?

---

First of all, there is a system limitation of ten items as the maximum number of items that fit in a loot box. If any more items are placed on the loot box, they will be lost, so we have thought about possibly splitting up loot into multiple boxes. However, if players have to split up loot from multiple boxes, players may not have enough time to distribute loot. Players may also mistakenly open the boxes before the loot is placed in the box.

Also, if loot is distributed at the end, players who can only participate partway through the content cannot receive their rewards. If we allow players to distribute loot after defeating each set of monsters, the pace of battle will be ruined and players will be even further pressed for time. Placing dropped items to the loot box and distributing these items through the lot system has been tried and tested in Dynamis content, and many players asked that this system be implemented in Walk of Echoes.

With that said, we decided that this system would be best suited for Legion content, which involves many loot items. (We also used the same though process for determining how legion points are obtained.)

----------
We will also be implementing adjustments based on player feedback in this week’s test server update and we would like to get even more feedback from the North American led Legion event.

Eep. PUP pets taking 300-400 damage? I might go to the Legion event as SMN rather than WAR. It's not much fun being KO'd in three hits.

Pets suck in every endgame event so that is no surprise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sparthos

Pets suck in every endgame event so that is no surprise.

---

I beg to differ. Summoners a powerhouse in WoE.

Is it just me, or was the answer to the PUP remark a bit flippant?

Player: My automaton takes like 300-400 damage!

Dev: Thanks for such a detailed remark. And yeah... what were you fighting?

...lol

So basically, legion is VWNM but in an arena and without temps? Sounds like it's a bunch of NM's that spam high damage aoe's and wipe entire groups.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sparthos

Pets suck in every endgame event so that is no surprise.

---

beg pardon? there's a reason people complain about pet job users soloing stuff too easily, and it's the pet. Granted, it isn't as easy as those commenters think it is, we pet players that succeed have developed a good bit of skill and we are using it, but most chat displays don't show all those actions due to used chat filters. But if you think pets suck in end-game you need to meet some different players. My pet jobs are REQUESTED to come, because they rock, and I'm only a slightly above average skill player with mediocre gear.

It DOES help if you pick your battles intelligently, but that's true of any job. I avoid anything with Ice Spikes like the plague when I'm soloing on dnc since I can't do anything about the spikes and the cool down on healing waltz makes it impractical, especially since the para may block the waltz, but as bard or pup I have no issues with the spikes. That's just an example, every job has their strengths and weaknesses, it's the player's job to know them and use their character intelligentally and/or build their group to compensate. Pet jobs certainly have their place in the mix, the obvious example is anything that can charm; send in the pets and get out of range; there are many other uses.

@Glamdring

Preach it! \(-.-)/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camate

I would hope that players get a better feel for each stage of battle as they attempt this content.

---

In case it gives you some insight, I think when people say they want more "exhilaration", I tihnk it is because they expected this content to be more akin to The Swarm event assault- bashing down as many monsters as possible in a time limit. But instead, it's more just a big battlefield with a bunch of HNMs thrown in. I think people expected this to be something more akin to that or maybe Campaign, where any job can participate effectively and just bash stuff to a pulp. As it is, only the jobs normally used for HNMs will get used in Legion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Glamdring

beg pardon? there's a reason people complain about pet job users soloing stuff too easily, and it's the pet. Granted, it isn't as easy as those commenters think it is, we pet players that succeed have developed a good bit of skill and we are using it, but most chat displays don't show all those actions due to used chat filters. But if you think pets suck in end-game you need to meet some different players. My pet jobs are REQUESTED to come, because they rock, and I'm only a slightly above average skill player with mediocre gear.

It DOES help if you pick your battles intelligently, but that's true of any job. I avoid anything with Ice Spikes like the plague when I'm soloing on dnc since I can't do anything about the spikes and the cool down on healing waltz makes it impractical, especially since the para may block the waltz, but as bard or pup I have no issues with the spikes. That's just an example, every job has their strengths and weaknesses, it's the player's job to know them and use their character intelligentally and/or build their group to compensate. Pet jobs certainly have their place in the mix, the obvious example is anything that can charm; send in the pets and get out of range; there are many other uses.

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The issue with "pets suck" isn't so much that the pet sucks, but that their AI is retarded. BST is probably the best pet job due to their AI being direct and easy to control, you even get to pick the special move to use. SMN has serious issues outside of Abyssea, their avatars are just weak period and can only do cool things once per min or so. PUP suffers from it's AI having failed out of kindergarten and their only method of controlling it is via coaxing and hoping it doesn't decide to silena you instead of Cureing you. If SE would allow the PUP to directly control their pet, rather then rely on the maneuver mini-game, then PUP's usefulness would be vastly improved.

Pet jobs are powerful in the right situations, other times they get overshadowed, especially in high AoE damage environments which seem to be the direction SE is going.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

In case it gives you some insight, I think when people say they want more "exhilaration", I tihnk it is because they expected this content to be more akin to The Swarm event assault- bashing down as many monsters as possible in a time limit. But instead, it's more just a big battlefield with a bunch of HNMs thrown in. I think people expected this to be something more akin to that or maybe Campaign, where any job can participate effectively and just bash stuff to a pulp. As it is, only the jobs normally used for HNMs will get used in Legion.

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To expand upon this, the monsters themselves are just not very exciting.

Straight up. You can take that right to the devs. They're going about this whole "hard monster" thing backwards and, for some reason, seem completely dumbfounded when people just zerg them or don't fight them the way they want them to be fought.

If the FFXI Dev team wants to make interesting, engaging fights, they need to throw away their current AIs and read this shit right here:

1) Stop making everything have stupidly powerful AoE. All it does is encourage zerging. Focus on single-target attacks and then allow monsters to cast AoE spells.

2) Severely decrease monster Attack. Severely increase monster Base Damage. This allows for monsters to be tanked by players with high-defense and not by random DDs without the aid of Temp items.

3) Severely decrease monster HP. Severely increase monster Defense. Add -90% MDT. Do not modify Evasion. This prevents DDs from Hulk-Smashing things into oblivion, equalizes fight times, and increases the relative effects of non-damage Enmity abilities/spells.

4) Implement dynamic reaction-based AI. No, it's not too hard to do. If there's a problem coding it, ask one of the thousands of Sysadmins and programmers playing your game for help like every other successful gaming company in the world. That is to say, give players a reason to time their skills. Give players something to react to rather than auto-attacking giant Fortifications and pressing their WS macro when it's up.

4a) Use the battlefield. Diabolos is a good example of doing this right. Ifrit from FFXIV is a good example of doing this right. Force players to pay attention to their surroundings. Floor tiles may randomly change colors and have various buff/debuff effects attached to them, or straight up explode.

4b) NM Pets. We don't need them to be mage-killers that need to be held or kited. That's dumb. Give us a reason to kill these by making their presence power up the main NM. Have them cast buffs and cures on the NM if we leave them alive too long. Give them interesting kill conditions. For example: Elemental pets that have infinite HP, but instantly die if hit by a skillchain of the element that they are weak to.

4c) Shifting elemental/damage vulnerability types. Give us a visible indicator that tells us which of the 4 damage types (Blunt, H2H, Piercing, Slashing) and which of the 8 elements the monster is weak to (+50%-100% damage) at any given time. Randomly Cycle this indicator at random times or after using certain TP moves.

4d) Allow us to cripple the monsters if we're good enough. AV's 2hour mechanic was poorly implemented but well designed. Don't force us to use our 2-hours, but allow us to lock monster abilities or spells by reacting in a particular way that is non-random and is not job-specific within a certain window after ability usage. For example, lock BIGMONSTER_A from using Thunder Breath if the team fighting it initiates an Impaction or Fragmentation skillchain within 10 seconds of the move's completion.

5) When the players tell you (the Devs) a fight is boring, it's not because we don't know how to play the game. It's because the fight is bloody boring.

The sad thing is, they're totally capable of many if not all of those things (maybe not the AI, but there's one example that at least approaches everything else). This means they either implement a bunch of HP-sacks with horrible AoEs over and over due to limited manpower, or because they earnestly enjoy making HP-sacks with horrible AoEs on some level.

I'm imagining it now. A middle-aged Japanese programmer at the height of euphoria while fine-tuning exactly how many too many HP something should, and exactly how potent the Area-of-Effect attack that inflicts Amnesia and Poison and Doom and Low Self-Esteem should be compared to the Area-of-Effect attack that inflicts Silence and Petrification and Bind and Seasonal Depression.

In the end, he decides on "a lot" and "the same but with different graphics". We can not imagine the satisfaction he feels.

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Originally Posted by saevel

The issue with "pets suck" isn't so much that the pet sucks, but that their AI is retarded. BST is probably the best pet job due to their AI being direct and easy to control, you even get to pick the special move to use. SMN has serious issues outside of Abyssea, their avatars are just weak period and can only do cool things once per min or so. PUP suffers from it's AI having failed out of kindergarten and their only method of controlling it is via coaxing and hoping it doesn't decide to silena you instead of Cureing you. If SE would allow the PUP to directly control their pet, rather then rely on the maneuver mini-game, then PUP's usefulness would be vastly improved.

Pet jobs are powerful in the right situations, other times they get overshadowed, especially in high AoE damage environments which seem to be the direction SE is going.

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I'm sorry. I take issue with a lot of what you're saying. First of all, you start by saying that Pet AI sucks... and then go on to say that BST is just fine and functions well as it is.

Next you're saying that SMN sucks outside Abyssea. I'm sorry but no. I'm not sure about YOUR SMN, but mine does just fine outside Abyssea. In fact, I use mine to participate in Sea, Sky, HNMs, Assault, Salvage, Limbus and Nyzul Isle. I also managed to Solo Alexander Prime and Odin Prime using my SMN. Given the right gear (and not even the best of the best) a SMN can hold his/her own just fine outside of Abyssea. I even used my SMN to get through most of the CoP missions solo... BEFORE the level cap was raised.

As for PUP AI? Yeah... it's a little wonky, but they recently revamped the AI and it functions 100% better than it used to. A lot of our attachments were changed to work more effectively and our AI now prioritizes spells based on the needs of the master in ways that it didn't before. Playing on my PUP, I can do some serious work both solo and in a group. In Abyssea, my BLM Auto does more spike damage than most BLMs can do and it's because of the higher pet damage cap that we have. Sure, we're still at the mercy of our Auto recast timers, but that can be adjusted with the right attachments.

Lastly. I appreciate that you give the nod to Pet Job Powah at the end of your post, but in "high AoE scenarios" we're no worse off than any other job apart from tanks like NIN and PLD. Anything is squishy to a high AoE but there are ways to deal with that. A PUP can use a BLM frame and nuke from a distance outside the AoE. A SMN can just let their Avatar die and re-summon... it's basically what we do already. Our pets are expendable. BST can gear up with a ton of Pet Damage reduction gear and throw out their highest def pets, keep feeding them food and hope for the best.

Honestly, I don't play BST at all, but from what I've seen... if they can't participate in this event... it'll be the only one. 99/100 ain't bad all things considered.

Pet jobs are powerful in ANY situation. How powerful simply relies on who is playing the job.