To the devs!

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

No, I'm pretty sure that's your job.

P.S.
Word on the street is that Scholar is in a pretty sad state at the moment.

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It's still a better mage than RDM. Oh but wait, RDM is more than just a mage, right? ~.^

If by useful every 2 hours like Smn is then yes, Sch is useful. Both have little use versus stronger monsters at the moment.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

It's still a better mage than RDM. Oh but wait, RDM is more than just a mage, right? ~.^

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In all honestly, right now there is only two "end game" events, if you could call them that. First being Voidwatch, second being Dynamis. Dynamis may be a haven for BST/DNC's right now, but the NM's still have ~some~ drops that are worth it.

First for voidwatch. RDM does have a role, although rather niche and limited. Due to the changes in SCH procs, a RDM/SCH can bring the full SCH proc set along with RDM's own merit procs and the Tier I~IV's. Currently there is no other way to get Para II / Slow II / Blind II / Dia III / Bio III, and if your going to be there might as well cover the others you can do and take some of the procing load off the BLMs. It's an incredibly small roll and not worth much, but it works. Lately I've found myself going BLU/WAR more and more often, good BLU's are hard to find these days and RDM's have become disposable.

Dynamis is a different cookie. I've gone RDM/DNC with my BLU/DNC friend and we've cleaned out camps of DC's. Dynamis zones are nothing ~but~ ash and trash mobs, the exact kinds that RDM's melee skills are effective against. It's a low man situation requiring that each member be as self sufficient as possible, basically has RDM written all over it. It's pretty limited as it's almost entirely classified as "farming", but it's effective and it works wonderfully.

Now there is a new system coming, and honestly RDM probably won't work well with it, but who knows. This board is full of suggestions on how to fix the job, its not hard and honestly it's only broken because SE programmed it to be broken.

Think you mean Blu is hard to find in general, at least for PUG. They certainly don't care what weapons the blu has as long as it has spells, and they certainly don't care about what subjob they have on, or even if they never touch the mob at all.

But that applies to any job brought along for proc'ing.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

It's still a better mage than RDM.

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Debatable.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

Oh but wait, RDM is more than just a mage, right? ~.^

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Is this flame-bait? This is flame-bait, right?

I know SE has put down the concept a few times but MAN would it squash alot of the bickering in the RDM communities-

AURA BUFFS - buffs that have a small range of a "sphere" effect that strength relies on enhancing skill that gives a solid buff to nearby members. For those that don't want to melee the sphere can be used to benifit other mages while the melee RDM can add sphere effect to nearby melee/tanks, personally i would add these "sphere" effects on top of like EN2 spells to make those spells useful. The sphere could be different than the normal effect of the spell.

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AURA BUFFS

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No.

If I want to melee I want to be able to buff my mages.
If I want to nuke I want to be able to buff my melee.
If I want to heal I want to be able to buff my melee.

There is no reason to have 2 RDM's per party it doesn't make sense, considering nothing they have stacks.

Unless you are suggestion Alliance wide aura's in which case, pinch yourself you are dreaming.


ENII's are useful. They apply nearly the same damage increas, but allow you to get benefits of Samabas. (from party DNC or as /DNC). Which is an incredibly friendly increase to damage, from both melee hits, and enspells. Much more than the decrease.

If no DNC or /DNC you can use ENI's.

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

Debatable.


Is this flame-bait? This is flame-bait, right?

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Idk, is it?

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Originally Posted by Mageoholic

No.

If I want to melee I want to be able to buff my mages.
If I want to nuke I want to be able to buff my melee.
If I want to heal I want to be able to buff my melee.

There is no reason to have 2 RDM's per party it doesn't make sense, considering nothing they have stacks.

Unless you are suggestion Alliance wide aura's in which case, pinch yourself you are dreaming.


ENII's are useful. They apply nearly the same damage increas, but allow you to get benefits of Samabas. (from party DNC or as /DNC). Which is an incredibly friendly increase to damage, from both melee hits, and enspells. Much more than the decrease.

If no DNC or /DNC you can use ENI's.

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Enspell 2s don't work particularly well on anyone that doesn't have native enhancing magic. It was bad by design and never got fixed.....just like most things on the job. If they changed Enspell 2s to reflect the enhancing magic on cast from the originator it would be fine, but that's not even how it works on RDM (much to our disappointment). Expect that to get fixed around the same time Enfeebles/Enhancing even get looked at, much less fixed.

Good thing ENII's can't be cast on others then or SE would have a real issue. (the only reason ENI's retain the casted potency is because Accession allows them to be AoE, thats it thats all.)

Enspell II's work fine on RDM and gives RDM access to Haste Samba from DNC main or /DNC, both of which provide a larger increase to damage then a full cast Enspell II would.

500*6/100 = 30 * 2 = 60 DMG at capped potency enspell II
404*6/100 = 48
60/48 = a 25% increase.

/DNC haste samba = 45/40 = 12.5%
DNC haste samba = 50/40 = 25%

A DNC main offsets the % loss completely, and as /DNC (assuming no main DNC) it provides an additonal 33% more in attack on top off 12.5% damage from haste. Attack which carries over on the more frequent weaponskills. (about a 45% increase to damage, where nin provides a 40% increase or so)

ENII's are probably the most useful tool in our melee arsenal, they allow us to increase our damage by more than /NIN, or allow us to increase the potential of /NIN by 25% + the increased WS frequency.

25% enspell 1's don't stack up, thus EN2's are much better depending on the situation. (which can be all the time if you /DNC while you melee).

(i did not include merits in ENII's it might make DNC main haste samaba actually more beneficial then an ENII. At max potency)\


Dont have DNC or DNC sub, the use ENI's. Issue resolved, you are welcome.

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Originally Posted by Mageoholic

Good thing ENII's can't be cast on others then or SE would have a real issue. (the only reason ENI's retain the casted potency is because Accession allows them to be AoE, thats it thats all.)

Enspell II's work fine on RDM and gives RDM access to Haste Samba from DNC main or /DNC, both of which provide a larger increase to damage then a full cast Enspell II would.

500*6/100 = 30 * 2 = 60 DMG at capped potency enspell II
404*6/100 = 48
60/48 = a 25% increase.

/DNC haste samba = 45/40 = 12.5%
DNC haste samba = 50/40 = 25%

A DNC main offsets the % loss completely, and as /DNC (assuming no main DNC) it provides an additonal 33% more in attack on top off 12.5% damage from haste. Attack which carries over on the more frequent weaponskills. (about a 45% increase to damage, where nin provides a 40% increase or so)

ENII's are probably the most useful tool in our melee arsenal, they allow us to increase our damage by more than /NIN, or allow us to increase the potential of /NIN by 25% + the increased WS frequency.

25% enspell 1's don't stack up, thus EN2's are much better depending on the situation. (which can be all the time if you /DNC while you melee).

(i did not include merits in ENII's it might make DNC main haste samaba actually more beneficial then an ENII. At max potency)\


Dont have DNC or DNC sub, the use ENI's. Issue resolved, you are welcome.

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In a party, 100% Agreed. If there isn't a DNC there you can actually help out.


As a solo, RDM is getting pretty good at double attacking, one might call it a strength that RDM has. I'm more inclined to see it as a nice bonus that was added to the job, since it really was only recently we got it. En2s don't really do anything for someone that has a decent double attack setup with good enhancing magic.

I get 30 extra damage between 2-4 times a round. My offhand is a Double Attack Khadga. I rarely only attack 2 per round when dual wielding. I've turned my Almace into a Joyeuse +1 and given myself an extra attack that comes with it's own enspell 1 damage. (30 x 3) / 48 is closer to the number in a solo setup.

If you are being selfish, Enspell 1s > 2s. But honestly SE could just fix it so Enspell 2s would just work better in general. Enspells have always been my favorite buffs in the game. They could be much better implemented.

Cant you still apply samba daze effects to a mob with enspells up? I mean i know you cant benefit from them but... cant a enspell rdm/dnc with en1 spells still grant haste samba to others? I think a dual/single wield drk/pld with enlight/endark can do the same, could be wrong, once i finish skilling staff up on mnk ill give it a shot but i think that worked last time i checked. In expanding on my idea before, the criteria for building those buff copy charges could vary actually. Could be something like "X amount of magical damage, or X amound of physical damage, or X amount of HP cured" similar to how various events use those numbers to determine exp rewarded at the end (besieged, campaign). That would offer benefit to any role without restricting you to any, however it wouldnt incorporate buffs/debuffs, but if we are only debuffing or buffing, we would have a lot of time according to mage, so this could be an appealing option for the buff sharing option and wouldnt need us to have single target buffs, we could just swap our gainspell between transfers. If that is how you are so inclined to do it, mind you.

yes a RDM can do that, they just don't get the benefit of the samba.

lolGoogleTranslate

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Cure adjust the amount of recovery
is to receive healing magic skill is greater than the impact of the recovery amount of Cure. Increase the amount of recovery higher than traditional skills, skills for low reverse recovery amounts to virtually eliminate the impact.
This effect has been set as a difference in the growth range depending on the type of Cure, we have focused on the following adjustments, particularly Cure IV.
(For adjustment of the scope of this magic system recovery Kearuga / Kearura, and dancer for waltz is not eligible.)
Cure I ~ IV: The amount recovered up to approximately 1.4 times the conventional
Cure V ~ VI: almost no effect
When this adjustment has been mention last Sun review of up amount healed Cure Released Date / amount healed Cure or ex two, and aims to increase the number of opportunities回Reru Standing healer in job-based mage than White Mage .

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So does that mean Cure IV goes from 500 to around 700?

Eitherway we'll know when officially translated.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

Idk, is it?




Enspell 2s don't work particularly well on anyone that doesn't have native enhancing magic. It was bad by design and never got fixed.....just like most things on the job. If they changed Enspell 2s to reflect the enhancing magic on cast from the originator it would be fine, but that's not even how it works on RDM (much to our disappointment). Expect that to get fixed around the same time Enfeebles/Enhancing even get looked at, much less fixed.

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Enspell II's suck at overall damage. Temper was the nail in the coffin for them. Prior to Temper they were useful for RDM/WAR or RDM/DRK builds, after Temper their useless. RDM/NIN with melee gear and Temper is going to hit around 2.6 times per attack round, an Enspell II would have to average above 75~78 damage to beat it. The elemental resistance reduction is only -10 and to the wrong element. You must use water to reduce thunder, thunder to reduce earth and so forth. This guarantees that you'll be using the wrong element on enspell and get horrible resist rates, all for only a +10 m.acc (same as -10 m.evasion) towards the weakened element. I find using the NI spells from /NIN to be more useful then Enspell II's.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

lolGoogleTranslate



So does that mean Cure IV goes from 500 to around 700?

Eitherway we'll know when officially translated.

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Well, if it's further multiplicative against potency and received, it could make 1065 or more Cure IV possible. Without received gear, it's about in-line with what I estimated SE would do (750-800 range with good cure potency). More than adequate to get the job done if it's what you're being suckered into. SCHs should presumably be able to hit 1250+ Cure IVs with Aurorastorm, Twilight Cape, and Obi. Have fun with Rapture on top of that.

I am, however, worried about enmity.

Did go to check but the Test Server doesn't work, kicks me off saying a download is available even though I downloaded it.

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have focused on the following adjustments, particularly Cure IV.
(For adjustment of the scope of this magic system recovery Kearuga / Kearura, and dancer for waltz is not eligible.)
Cure I ~ IV: The amount recovered up to approximately 1.4 times the conventional
Cure V ~ VI: almost no effect

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Hmmm 400*1.4 = 560*1.5 = 840, not bad SE I am glad you chose to ignore C5 and C6. Guess you did steal my idea after all. Should be able to get close to 1K with MND added on top. Its like SE got into my brain.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...891#post273891

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Cure potency will be affected more significantly by healing magic skill. If a player has high healing magic skill, cure potency will be greatly increased, but low healing magic skill will have almost no effect on cure potency. The effect of skill level on cure potency will vary based on the type of cure, but cures lower than Cure V will be affected the most. Note that Curaga, Cura and Waltzes will not be affected.

Cure I-IV: Up to 1.4 times the normal cure potency
Cure V-VI: Almost no change

With this adjustment combined with the increase of cure potency mentioned earlier, we would like to increase opportunities for mages jobs other than white mage to serve as healers.

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Google Trans was pretty bang on, essentially all cure spells from T1-T4 move up a Tier with combined skill and potency. A buff for all jobs with native healing skill, and exactly the thing RDM needed for healing. Here is to hoping they do something similar with Enhancing and Enfeebling.

Notes to enfeebling should be linked to that one, although there's still some issues with what was written.

Yeah. They've said that Enfeebling immunities will be generally removed aside from a few special cases, but high magic Eva and partial resists will be put into place. A pretty solid deal for Red Mage, all things considered. Would be happier if the Corsair nerf wasn't in the same bloody post.

Hardly call that a nerf, TP saved is still pretty awesome.

The wording seems misleading.

They say if STP is 20 it will become 25 if 5TP was gained on the WS (a one hit dagger WS for example)

I don't see anything stating that 20STP is the max or min. Just a number the picked to use.

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Originally Posted by Mageoholic

Hardly call that a nerf, TP saved is still pretty awesome.

The wording seems misleading.

They say if STP is 20 it will become 25 if 5TP was gained on the WS (a one hit dagger WS for example)

I don't see anything stating that 20STP is the max or min. Just a number the picked to use.

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The average TP return on a 2-hander/Ranged WS (you know, the important ones) is 16-20. Even MNK averages a 15 TP return. The average Miser's Roll is 20. XI Miser's is 25.

Post-nerf, an average Miser's will have 0-4 Save TP effect for those DDs. An XI will have 5-9.

Pretty huge nerf, man. Miser's will go from always saving 1-2 rounds to 100TP to situationally saving 1 round to 100TP if a DD gears specifically for it, which won't happen. Effectively useless outside of Voidwatch and pretty bloody nerfed inside.

Just reread that and see my mistake. Yes that is a nerf, oh well was a busted ass ability anyway. Of course SE is adjusting SAM to compensate. My bad for fail reading.

/sigh I wonder if RDM's merits are every going to be updated..

If they do, god I'm hoping for Full Potency, only duration increase on the spells.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

If they do, god I'm hoping for Full Potency, only duration increase on the spells.

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I'm hoping full potency and duration and increased merits increase the duration or accuracy further. :(

I'd be happy with just Phalanx 2 and Dia 3 being adjusted tbh. I'm mostly fine with the rest of them, it's just annoying I have to lose 2 merits because of Voidlogs procs.


EDIT: unless they revamp it to the point additional merits in slow/para are actually worth it

I just want them to do anything......

I'm not really sure if the proposed change will really make a difference. If Gravity or Bind can land for more than 10 seconds it would be a decent safety net. Other than that, I don't see Slow, Silence, Addle, Paralyze, or Blind really making a difference against NMs. They are just going to TP or cast magic like you aren't even there most likely.

I wonder if Break will actually do anything after this change. It's so limited use right now. It's my 4th sleep after Sleep 2 + 1, and Bind are already spent.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

I just want them to do anything......

I'm not really sure if the proposed change will really make a difference. If Gravity or Bind can land for more than 10 seconds it would be a decent safety net. Other than that, I don't see Slow, Silence, Addle, Paralyze, or Blind really making a difference against NMs. They are just going to TP or cast magic like you aren't even there most likely.

I wonder if Break will actually do anything after this change. It's so limited use right now. It's my 4th sleep after Sleep 2 + 1, and Bind are already spent.

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This is what I keep saying, our current enfeeble set is only useful vs things weaker then us. Otherwise it's like trying to stop a forest fire by pissing on it. Well GG could probably drown the whole forest, but that's a different discussion entirely.

We need new enfeebles that reduce the target's stats. I'm talking about reducing it's MAB / MDB / INT / STR / ect.. by a sizable margin, at least on par with our current Gain-X spell line but preferably double that. Make the potency based on enfeebling magic and not something like dINT / dMND. Or give something that lowers the enemy's critical hit evasion, that would be epic just on it's own.

We'll see what SE does though.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

I'm hoping full potency and duration and increased merits increase the duration or accuracy further. :(

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Well yes, I'd 100% want this. Fingers crossed!

Also 100% Yes to the new enfeebles.

Messing about with Cure IV on the test server I got these numbers:

Naked (RDM capped skill): 532
Naked (Light Arts): 547
13% Potency (87+26 MND / 80+2 VIT): 630
33% Potency (87+26 MND / 80+2 VIT): 742
33% Potency (Primeval Brew): 851

Didn't have the body (still after it), torque or earring to test at 50%.

That seems right in the zone for where id want cures to be honestly.

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Originally Posted by Crimson_Slasher

That seems right in the zone for where id want cures to be honestly.

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Yeah, I can't complain at all. Basically a Cure Potency +50% cure IV naked is cool!

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

Messing about with Cure IV on the test server I got these numbers:

Naked (RDM capped skill): 532
Naked (Light Arts): 547
13% Potency (87+26 MND / 80+2 VIT): 630
33% Potency (87+26 MND / 80+2 VIT): 742
33% Potency (Primeval Brew): 851

Didn't have the body (still after it), torque or earring to test at 50%.

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Those are nice number's. A little confuse in the difference between casting cure IV spells for Cure V numbers instead of just getting the spell. But I guess the balance is in the fact that you can only see those number's off the one spell instead of casting Cure IV & V back to back for the same value's. Did you happen to test III at all?

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Originally Posted by tyrantsyn

Those are nice number's. A little confuse in the difference between casting cure IV spells for Cure V numbers instead of just getting the spell. But I guess the balance is in the fact that you can only see those number's off the one spell instead of casting Cure IV & V back to back for the same value's. Did you happen to test III at all?

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On a quick test.

Cure I
naked: 56
/sch: 58
13%: 63
33%: 77

Cure II
naked: 131
/sch: 133
13%: 148
33%: 176

Cure III
naked: 286
/sch: 293
13%: 323
33%: 389

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Originally Posted by tyrantsyn

Those are nice number's. A little confuse in the difference between casting cure IV spells for Cure V numbers instead of just getting the spell. But I guess the balance is in the fact that you can only see those number's off the one spell instead of casting Cure IV & V back to back for the same value's. Did you happen to test III at all?

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Cure V has unique enmity properties and doesn't share a timer with Cure IV.

WHM now has, essentially, 3 Cure Vs (lolcure6) while RDM has 1. Fine with me, really.

Not too sure on the enfeebles, but it stills seems like most NM's are ~70% resistant to then decent ones. Don't vouch on me for that though as I've only tried 1 or 2 enemies in VW and Abyssea.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Cure V has unique enmity properties and doesn't share a timer with Cure IV.

WHM now has, essentially, 3 Cure Vs (lolcure6) while RDM has 1. Fine with me, really.

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Fine with me as well, just can't help but to giggle a bit.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

Messing about with Cure IV on the test server I got these numbers

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I've added your information to the Cure Formula Changes thread. Thanks once again for testing this stuff out, it helps loads.

If anyone wants to discuss that we've been having the thread going for some time (even before these changes formally got announced) and any help working out the new cure formula would be great.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

I've added your information to the Cure Formula Changes thread. Thanks once again for testing this stuff out, it helps loads.

If anyone wants to discuss that we've been having the thread going for some time (even before these changes formally got announced) and any help working out the new cure formula would be great.

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I'll look into doing that test tomorrow if I can get the time. Can't guarantee it though.

not bad, not bad....