What are you upset about, exactly? The new GKT WS seems comparable to/better than Fudo at 5/5 thus far. This would make Mythic GKT the best SAM weapon in the game by miles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lessina
[dev1049] New weapon skills
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12-01-2011, 05:46 AMGreatguardian
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12-01-2011, 05:49 AMTaint2Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatguardian
Yeah Mythic is a blow out based on the limited info we have.
Amano vs Masa is closer then I first thought because of Masa's +15-20str and 100% WSmod of the new WS.
Without an Emp/Relic/Mythic SAM also just got a beefed up PA WS and a solid Bow WS. Huge update for SAM from any perspective. -
12-01-2011, 05:52 AMLessinaH2h, as I just said. Pardon me if it wasn't very clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatguardian
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12-01-2011, 05:54 AMGreatguardianOh, my mistake then. H2H should still beat everything but true-Vereth V Smite, though (because of the Aftermath). Add-plague probably has situational usefulness as well. I wouldn't rule it out completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lessina
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12-01-2011, 06:04 AMLessina
I've been fooling around with it for a few hours, I've yet to see it break 1800 damage. In or out of Abyssea. On both Pup and Monk...
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12-01-2011, 06:05 AMGreatguardian
How much DEX are you throwing into your set? With a 100% DEX mod at 5/5, that's going to be one of the bigger factors in determining damage.
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12-01-2011, 06:07 AMFrankReynolds
in this thread here, they show it right on par with VS.
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12-01-2011, 06:23 AMLessina
I had about 160 Dex, was still only getting about 1800. :/ Hm.
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12-01-2011, 07:31 AMUrteil
Make the Scythe WS ASPIR MP not RECOVER.
Notawhmrdm. -
12-01-2011, 07:35 AMGreatguardian
Inb4 Urteil finding something to complain about when DRK gets legitimately badass weapon skills because Pv- SHIT
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12-01-2011, 08:11 AMRaeliaSome of us would enjoy having a level 99 Scythe WS that is better than our level 60 Scythe WS. Just sayin'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatguardian
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12-01-2011, 08:28 AMLeonlionheart
More indepth post on FFXIAH but for those who are wondering:
on Cherufe:
Upheavel 300%: 1944
Mighty Strikes Upheavel 300%: 4944
Mighty Strikes Ukko's Furry: 100%: 2222
Mighty Strikes Upheavel 100%: 3339 -
12-01-2011, 08:44 AMUrteilI like having your existence revolve around me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatguardian
Badass where? The Scythe WS apparently can't even beat Guillotine and for the mathematically challenged 96 is > 60 by a 36 whole levels.
Why is a DRK worrying about MP recovery in an endgame event, do your DRK's stand on the side using Tier III nukes? They are running out of MP from all their not-spell-casting between Refresh II and or consumables?
Are there Dark Magic spells worth casting that I don't know about, instead of swinging my apocalypse as fast as I can, as quick as I can?
And it recovers MP, and apparently doesn't steal it from the target. So it fails on levels otherwise thought impossible. So if the previous sentence is true: WTF.
You went full retard son. -
12-01-2011, 08:47 AMLeonlionheartI hope you're joking, that would just be total failureQuote:
Originally Posted by Urteil
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12-01-2011, 09:02 AMLyrminas
I kinda wish that emperyean weapons gave aftermath effect regardless of what WS you use <_<;;; like for Verethragna, any H2H WS should activate the aftermath, and that you worked towards that weapon solely for its aftermath capabilities.
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12-01-2011, 09:22 AMSparthosThis is an extremely confusing comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Urteil
You want the WS to steal MP from the target so it'd be subject to resists on mobs like skeletons and other undead/dark-based mobs? Why? -
12-01-2011, 09:22 AMTaint2Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonlionheart
very interesting, thanks for testing. -
12-01-2011, 09:44 AMMirageAspir effects don't work on undeads and any mob without a MP pool. Have fun making the WS useless on half of the game's targets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Urteil
Making the WS work like Spirit Taker will let you recover MP from WSing *any* target that isn't under the effect of physical shield abilities. -
12-01-2011, 10:18 AMQuetzacoatl
Just so that Square-Enix knows, Entropy needs to have a STR mod added to its current INT modifier. Otherwise, in endgame events, what is a Dark Knight doing that's costing him all his MP that doesn't involve using Drain spells and Dread Spikes?
I am impressed with Resolution, however. I may use it in tandem with Torcleaver and its Aftermath if there is a special perk to using Resolution.
Overall, it's looking like Great Sword is really making a comeback. I can't even look at Scythe anymore. -
12-01-2011, 10:43 AMUrteilDRK didn't need help recovering MP it doesn't use. At least make the WS make some damn sense with the nature of the job. Instead of making it like an already existent STAFF, ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
Useless WS was already useless, now it doesn't even have the dignity of making logical sense. -
12-01-2011, 10:46 AMUrteilOkay then I suppose Catastrophe should just "recover" HP as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparthos
SE's Idea List for Dark Knight:
Give them Tactical Parry.
Give them Spirit Taker.
Job fixed yet? /troll. -
12-01-2011, 12:01 PMSeriha
Sorry, but I'd rather have a scythe equivalent to Spirit Taker over Energy Drain/Steal. If all this is just groaning about PvP, you're playing the wrong game. Meanwhile, I'll be happy I can more aggressively use Dread Spikes and the Drains when Aspir isn't an option. Lone wolfing in events like Campaign or WoE also introduce a higher longevity, particularly if opting to sub WHM, RDM, or SCH for added survival purposes.
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12-01-2011, 12:02 PMRaeliaOr you can /DNC with a multihit weapon and make those other subs look silly in terms of longevity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seriha
Anyone else in favor of dropping the MP recovery effect from Entropy and making it an eight hit WS (hitting twice per swing of the animation)? That's what it'd take for Scythe to catch up to Torcleaver. -
12-01-2011, 12:33 PMGreatguardian
8-hit WS with 100% WSC mod would be stupidly broken. Is DRK really even hurting that much for INT gear? 100% WSC is 100% WSC.
Edit: Even as an INT WS, this looks fairly decent, http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/239656
Blood mail would be augmented, of course, and I'm guessing on the SC properties. Whenever the fTP's confirmed, Aife's medal may be comparable to gorget in the neck slot. -
12-01-2011, 01:00 PMRaeliaThat set is great for the INT mod... and just missed three out of four swings (or worse if you're talking about an eight hit Entropy)!Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatguardian
100% INT is certainly NOT stupidly broken. Adding INT doesn't also raise fSTR and Attack like a 100% STR mod would (and the GS WS got a 100% STR mod, wtf?)
8 hits is what a vanilla Scythe WS would need to put the weapon back into contention at all, and also simplifies gearing and limits power creep because Double and Triple attack won't affect it (max 8 hits in any attack). Keeping it an INT mod would further limit the WS just enough for 8 hits to not be totally broken.
The entire concept of making Entropy an 8 hit WS is to give Scythe 1. A reason to exist and 2. Better help the longer delay make use of Souleater.
With capped accuracy it will still only land 6 hits most of the time, with occasional spikes. -
12-01-2011, 01:11 PMQuetzacoatl
WHERE IS KIRSCHY'S INPUT ON THIS ; ;
i'mreallyjustcuriousaboutherinput -
12-01-2011, 01:11 PMSpankWustlerUnless I'm missing something (I know little of augments), that's not even the best set, either. Off the top of my head, I'd say Twilight Helm and Twilight Mail would be improvements. The Abyss Gauntlets +2 that will soon exist will be pretty epic for Entropy, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatguardian
Dark Knight has a lot of options that include INT along with STR and stuff. Maybe some of the pieces are a little anemic in terms of attack, but I don't understand the tidal wave of complaints. -
12-01-2011, 01:20 PMGreatguardianD'oh! For some reason, Twilight wasn't there when I did a ffxiah power search for INT+ <_< I guess it cut off the results before it hit Tw.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankWustler
You realize WSC and fSTR do the exact same thing during WS, right? They both just add to your weapon's base damage. Even if your fSTR isn't capped, 2 STR isn't going to be nearly as potent as 2 INT with a 100% WSC mod.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raelia
2 INT * 0.85 = 1.7 Damage, whereas 2 Str is 0~1 Damage with an average of 0.5.
With a 100% WSC mod and 0.85 Alpha, 1 INT is the equivalent of 3.4 STR when fStr is uncapped - STR has no value at all when fStr is capped.
Yes, Attack is an issue when you're not getting free Attack from a STR mod WS, but that's pretty much all it comes down to. But is DRK of all jobs really lacking on Attack? Probably not.
fStr on WS is just not a big deal when you have such a high WSC. -
12-01-2011, 01:23 PMAlhanelem
DRK has many items with both STR+ and INT+. You can add INT while also raising FSTR.
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12-01-2011, 01:38 PMRaeliaI'm glad you understand alpha and everything, but you completely wooshed my point just so you could play math. I was NOT talking about stacking STR on Entropy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatguardian
I was comparing a 100% INT mod to a 100% STR mod.
Let's throw 100 of each stat at each mod and see what we get:
+100 INT, 100% mod
100 * 1.0 * 0.91 (a much more recent alpha value mind you, .85 was back at 80 cap)
91 base damage from WSC
Now 100 STR on a 100% STR mod
91 base damage from WSC, ~25 base damage from fSTR if uncapped (which definitely happens in Voidwatch) and 75 attack (Also highly valuable in such events as Voidwatch)
So you're looking at a 10% Ratio increase on top of 27% more 'bang' from raw Stat.
A 100% STR mod is far more 'broken' than a 100% INT mod would ever be no matter how strong the base WS is. Resolution is 100% STR mod and already 25% stronger than Entropy (5.0 fTP vs 4.0, gorgets and ele belts are far past worthwhile at this point mind you so don't even mention them).
Having a 100% INT mod does not make Entropy any less crappy, especially when compared to Resolution. But if you wanna say that an eight hit Entropy would be broken because of a 100% INT mod you're just being silly. -
12-01-2011, 01:42 PMGreatguardianI'd like to see where your data supporting a 0.91 Alpha is coming from, considering all of the testing that's been going on on the test server from both Pchan and BG have either confirmed that Alpha is 0.85 or are using 0.85 as the level 99 Alpha. Edit: In fact, I'm fairly certain Alpha was very specifically confirmed to be 0.85 at 99 using Sidewinder because we've been having so many problems figuring out what was going on with these new WS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raelia
Obviously a 100% STR WS would be stronger than a 100% INT WS, my point was simply that being a 100% INT WS doesn't inherently make it "Bad". Is the great sword WS better? Quite possibly, but then Greatswords also suffer from a great deal of X-hit issues and a lower base damage in general. A 15%~ish overall difference in WS damage isn't gamebreakingly horrid when you're looking at a 7-hit GS and a 6-hit Scythe. -
12-01-2011, 01:45 PMLeonlionheart
Entropy is the best DRK ws simply because of Liberator.
99 Mythic pretty much rapes the scene.
Obviously, for the 99.999999% that don't have one, Torcleaver on low Defense mobs or High Attack situations and Resolution on high defense mobs. -
12-01-2011, 01:47 PMSpankWustler
Following your logic, every single merit weaponskill should have a 100% STR modifier because anything else is just intolerable.
Of course a 100% STR modifier is better than a 100% INT modifier. I don't think anyone would suggest otherwise. I'm just saying a 100% INT modifier isn't as awful a thing as it's being made out to be. The sky isn't falling. -
12-01-2011, 01:49 PMRaelia
Alpha has been rising since it was 0.82 at level 75. It's been above 0.90 for some time now. You are way out of date but this portion of the argument is irrelevant. It's still incomprehensible for alpha to have gone back down to almost the level it was at 75, but I digress. Do your own damn research.
The Greatsword WS is curbstompingly better with any decent amount of attack. If you have anything to say otherwise then feel free to make yourself look like a total clown. It's much further on the order of fully 50% stronger just for the STR mod reasons I detailed above and because the base damage difference between Scythe and GS has actually closed since level 75. X-hit issues are on a per-weapon basis (I'm looking at you Caladbolg) but are not insurmountable.
I also hope you're joking about only 6-hitting Scythe, especially with the Askar upgrades coming down the pipe.
100% INT is pretty awful, but isn't what's wrong with Entropy. It's the laughable 'four hits' cloning of a level 60 WS that is the problem. Make Entropy eight hits and it will at least compete even with an INT mod (if it were STR modded, that would indeed be too much!)
This is an opportunity for Scythe to not fall completely off the wagon. As it stands GS will take over both singlehit and multihit WS supremacy with better TP phase damage. -
12-01-2011, 01:56 PMGreatguardian
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106...=1#post4915450
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106...=1#post4915481
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106...=1#post4915503
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106...=1#post4915521
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106...=1#post4915520
Put your money where your mouth is or shove off. -
12-01-2011, 01:59 PMRaelia
Don't really give a rat's ass, you're running a sideline argument and ignoring the topic at hand.
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12-01-2011, 02:06 PMGreatguardian
Which is what? You feel entitled to a flat 4.0 fTP increase on your WS? Even Asuran Fists, MNK's strongest non-Empyrean WS, only gets 20% total WSC while being 8-hit - and this is with a significantly weaker base damage.
Yeah, an INT mod is silly, but the alternative you're suggesting is breaking the god damn game. But who cares, right? In the end, it's just DRKs emo'ing about DRK. This entire conversation is subjective nonsense because determining where to draw the line of "Good enough" here is subjective. I could understand if Entropy was being shat on by Guillotine, but it's not. It's very clearly a gimmicky WS, where GS excels in pure damage. Whether it comes out comparable overall is going to depend vastly on the kind of gear/weapon options we're given at 99.
I also don't take kindly to people trying to "correct" me with bad, easily disproved numbers. If you want to get an attitude, make sure your bloody facts check out first. -
12-01-2011, 02:18 PMRaelia
Because Torcleaver swinging a 4.75-6.5 fTP with auto-capped accuracy isn't broken in the same way? "Because it only has a 60% VIT mod"? DRK can stack a smidge over +110 VIT on gear but only about +85 INT (and most of that is the same Twilight pieces), and Torcleaver only has to consider Attack before stacking VIT.
An eight hit Entropy would require keeping accuracy capped first, then attack, then that INT mod might come into play. it's the classic Guillotine formula and has always separated the good DRKs from scrubs and would be good to return to. Your point about Asuran Fists's low modifier isn't relevant because said mods should come last from any standpoint.
'Entitled' to a 4.0 ftp increase? I just want the WS to be relevant. DRK should be a DD class to start, hybrid and utility second. After accuracy considerations, eight hits is not overpowered in comparison to Torcleaver.
Would you rather it be made a crit WS? -
12-01-2011, 02:25 PMGreatguardian
Accuracy considerations, even at cap, are one of the biggest reasons I'm "wut"ing at this 8-hit request. Why not just add 2-3 fTP to the first hit? That would do a hell of a lot more for the WS than adding extra hits. 8-hit WS's only hit all 8 hits 66.3% of the time, even with capped accuracy. That's a woefully unreliable way to add damage if that's all your after.
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12-01-2011, 02:32 PMRaelia
One (two?) word: Souleater.
Combine with Stalwart Soul and DRK has a nice chunk of zerg/spike output back without resorting to giving it a crit WS.
Should still land 6 hits most of the time. Making the WS eight hits means double and triple attack are not necessary and/or abusable if you took it into Abyssea.
It would be a powerful but fairly regulated (mostly by accuracy) weaponskill and fall within classical DRK design schemes without jumping the crit shark. Scythe needs a decent WS that badly and Torcleaver is the least comparison I can make; start throwing around WAR fTPs with critical attack bonus and Blood Rage thrown on top and eight hit Entropy would probably seem downright tame.