[dev1024] Job adjustments - RDM

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Originally Posted by Duelle

I'm simply trying to steer the thread into a direction that is not crying over us not getting another spell to cycle under the delusion that it'll make our job "wanted" and "useful",

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Wait wait wait wait. Are you saying that a spell that increases double-attack that can be cast on other players would not be useful?

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Originally Posted by Crimson_Slasher

Little late to the response but greatguardian, im going to be frank, a post about the m.acc of staffs and wether they are needed or not does NOT translate "to why do we use staffs?!"

That was an irrelevent response to the question i asked, its the same reason some rng (i do at times) use fire staff, or smn use staffs, they still have uses, but i will tell you now, a ranger doesnt use a fire staff for fire magic accuracy, and under most situations, even summoners dont use them for magic accuracy. So try to not go off on a totally unrelated tangent from asking if we actually (Generally) need the magic accuracy (i did not mention nuking or other bonuses they represent) to perform as rdm (which as many claim we are an enfeebler) enfeebling.

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I'm not claiming Red Mage is an enfeeble-only job. That is stupid. Likewise, I was also responding to the people who were claiming that they may as well use swords because Magic Accuracy is unncessary from staves. I am not going to pigeonhole myself into looking at a single aspect of a certain line of staves while ignoring every other benefit the weapon class grants, just so you and/or others can turn around and say "Well ha! Staves are useless then! Sword or bust!"

It's flawed logic at its finest. Does Red Mage always need the Magic Accuracy component of, frankly, out-dated Staves? No. Does Red Mage receive multiple, potent benefits from non-swords in their weapon slot? Yes. Is equipping a sword and keeping it equipped to maintain TP a huge reduction in Red Mage's versatility and potency as a spellcaster? Yes. There is a massive opportunity cost when TP'ing in swords, whether RdMelee like it or not.

Accuracy down? You mean blind?

One person said earlier that they should change RDM's Group 2's to simply enhancing the potency of those spells and giving RDM those spells as scrolls instead - I would love this, but unfortunately that's not terribly likely to happen unless SE were to check every player to see who's merited which spells and mail them a scroll to their D box lol.


And yes, there's no guarantee that Temper is 100% indicative of SE's manifesto, but it's not exactly a good start either. They talk about making RDM a master of enhancing magic, and the 1st thing we see is a self-only buff? With only 1 more level cap increase to go, it does not instill much confidence in me - especially after the years of crap I have seen out of the old devs.

Wait, you think the Devs care if we already have a spell or not? If they remove it from the merit list and make it a scroll, we'll all have to buy it regardless. It wouldn't be the first time Mages have lost spells that they had already paid for and learned. Life's not fair, broheim.

Duelle, I understand that you're trying to make points by comparing stuff in FFXI to stuff in other MMORPGs, but I think gaining a better understanding of what stuff in FFXI actually does would be a better approach.

Paralyze can't prevent a monster's TP moves, so it's drastically different than all of those abilities you compared it to. In fact, it can't even prevent a player's weapon skills.

There is an accuracy down spell. It's called Blind. There are two tiers of it, with the second tier being a Category II merit for reasons no sane man will ever grasp. It's sometimes useful, but the hardest monsters have huge amounts of accuracy so it just changes their hit rate from 95% to 95%.

I guess you're referring to accuracy and evasion down spells that would work on a percentage with no chance of resist, similar to Dia and Bio? If that's the case, I agree something like that would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Malacite

One person said earlier that they should change RDM's Group 2's to simply enhancing the potency of those spells and giving RDM those spells as scrolls instead - I would love this, but unfortunately that's not terribly likely to happen unless SE were to check every player to see who's merited which spells and mail them a scroll to their D box lol.

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I think most people would be just fine with losing the merits and needing to buy the scrolls, if that was the way SE decided to re-work the Category 2 merits for some jobs. Well, assuming it made the merits more useful and/or more interesting.

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Originally Posted by Malacite

Accuracy down? You mean blind?

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I mean something a little more potent. Well, without having to spend merits to get it, anyway. Blind II with reworked numbers as a scroll-learnable spell would probably do the trick. Reworking the numbers for Blind and getting rid of Blind II would also work. I will admit I did forget about it, though. Lack of use and lolBlindII being partly to blame.

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I guess you're referring to accuracy and evasion down spells that would work on a percentage with no chance of resist, similar to Dia and Bio? If that's the case, I agree something like that would be nice.

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My only real concern with percentages is that the numbers in-game aren't big enough for it to be "visible". It might be possible to work around it, though.

The fact that the concept of buff/debuff spread doesn't exist in FFXI might actually work in our favor, for once. The eva down idea could come into play as something that would create additional leeway for everyone, including the caster. That alone would be a huge feather in RDM's cap if they were to get something like that.

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Paralyze can't prevent a monster's TP moves, so it's drastically different than all of those abilities you compared it to. In fact, it can't even prevent a player's weapon skills.

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The fact that a spell can stop monster actions, even if they are as seemingly meaningless as auto attacks, is much bigger than you are considering.

PS: I'm guessing no one is against Dia and Bio being able to take effect on the same mob without the overwrite silliness.

Once again though greatguardian your point is IRRELEVENT to the question. "The question wasnt should we nuke with swords?" or "Can we nuke with swords?" or hell even "are swords better?" it has NOTHING to do with WHY we use staffs what so ever. We all know WHY we use staffs, but you are just taking a tangent as to what is good about staffs, my question put simply was does the magic accuracy generally matter? The group has spoken as said "NO" and it is further "flawed logic" from you to even assume that anyone on this board, or playing redmage is trying to insinuate that staffs are "useless" and we should drop them for swords.

In a nutshell, i asked "do we need knifes to cut apples?" and you shouted "yeah we need knifes to cut oranges and pears and grapefruit!" which is irrelevent and boarderline stupid of a statement. I thankyou for your insight on staffs, but do me a favor? Take the benefits of staffs, put it on a memo, and label it "THINGS WE ALREADY KNOW" and have it on my desk in an hour. Additionally, i never mentioned my question as to us needing to having swords stay in the weapon slots to keep tp, and expecting to use my full selection of spells at optimal potency. Because 99% of the rdm population understands that meleeing is a give and take thing for rdm, giving up nuking/healing potency for physical damage which does NOT deplete our mp as quickly as magical damage.

And if you cant be bothered reading all that, simple question. What was the point in bringing up the other benefits of staffs when nobody asked and everybody knows?

Sooooooooo muuuuuuuuuuuuuch maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

Simple answer to a shortsighted question? Depends on the content. Magic Accuracy does matter on some things. Does it always? Nah.

Real answer to the situation which spawned your question? The "anti-melee" crowd doesn't say that the only reason staves are important is for Magic Acc. It's the melee crowd who instantly jumps to Elemental Staves and Enfeebles whenever the Staff vs Sword question is raised, and touts the fact that Magic Acc is often superfluous as a reason why losing Staves for Swords is no big deal. The reality of it? Fulltiming swords is a big deal, and it has to do with a lot more than Magic Acc.

If you want to ask a single question, unrelated to the context surrounding it, try not including aggressive and argumentative verbage in the first place. If you're going to say "So how come all the magic-onlies keep saying all this dumb crap about magic acc whenever we bring up swords? It makie no sense!", expect one of those magic-onlies to make you check yourself before you wreck yourself. If you don't care about the situation that's causing your apparent confusion, then don't bring it up.

And if you can't be bothered reading all that, stop 4 beeing Rosina plx.

To be fair your argument isn't as much staves as it is the ability to freely switch weapons without remorse.

Plenty of my weapons that I switch into aren't even staves. I mean the best convert weapon is a club and come 95 sword and shield/sword will likely beat terra's staff for PDT.

I mean when you say that a large part of backlinings power of the ability to equip staves that isn't exactly the best description of what you are describing and people tend to default to the old Macc from staves are needed argument.

It's both, yes. Staves do offer a wide variety of utility, but yes I have always said that one of the key features of Red Mage is its gear selection and ability to switch all of its gear slots at any time. Keeping swords on dashes that versatility in two of the most potent slots, which was the entire point of the conflict he originally cited.

I was just pointing out the confusion.

It's nothing specific to the staves themselves though there are a lot of useful staves.

If you mention staves specifically though people tend to assume you are talking about something else such as the magic accuracy debate cited so many times that isn't necessarily true.

Agreement with supersun, my issue isnt why im shackled to staffs, like i said, everyone knows why, my only statement was to the magic accuracy aspect specifically, and the other reasons were not to be addressed because in short, im well aware of what they do, but i was asking why there was so much contradction over staff vs no staff m.acc on GENERAL content, not situational content. You bringing in the staffs do more than make us more accurate was not something i addressed because frankly, i wasnt even talking about nuke potency, cure potency, evasion/skill boosts, pdt, or anything else.

As far as you ignoring my question, that comes off as a very machiavellian perspective, where as i interperit it, you saw an opertunity where you can in one fell swoop try to silence the nay-sayers who feel staffs offer in many cases, random superfluous enhancements (attack/ranged attack say hello.) to redmage, as well as "defeat" those who say the magic accuracy isnt nessesary on general content.

But thats my understanding of your posts, needless to say, the staff bonuses are a dead-horse topic, and it needs neither to be beaten more, nor do the redmage populace need to be educated on why theyre effective. Thank you sir, but again, on a list of things we as a whole already know and understand.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

My only real concern with percentages is that the numbers in-game aren't big enough for it to be "visible". It might be possible to work around it, though.

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Almost nothing in this game is visible to the naked eye, so that would be par for the course. FFXI just isn't a game where eyeballing is an effective form of measurement. I can understand why some people dislike this, but I enjoy that it rewards people who take the time to understand the effects of statistics, spells, and abilities.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

The fact that a spell can stop monster actions, even if they are as seemingly meaningless as auto attacks, is much bigger than you are considering.

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I get what you're saying about the theory, but it doesn't work that way in practice. A monster's auto-attacks just exist to wear down the MP of the healer in any competent group, or to finish someone off if directly after a TP move or spell. And yeah, everything does hit like a truck and always will, but plenty of ways to deal with that exist.

Spells are a mixed bag, depending on the monster, but generally Sleepga II or Paralyga will be deadlier than anything that does damage if a group is prepared. If you really want to stop a spell, though, Stun would be the first choice.

The TP moves or special abilities of monsters are the real danger for any competent group, and those are designed to bypass the effects of Slow (monsters gain the majority of TP through being hit, not through hitting), Paralyze (it can't activate on this sort of ability), and sometimes even Stun (the ability comes out too fast).

FFXI has some unorthodox dynamics, but the game is designed with those in mind and it works. One of those dynamics is that we often need to stop the actions of boss-level monsters and that we are able to.

Dia and Bio no longer overwriting each other would be very welcome, if only because Bio takes priority currently in spite of being near-pointless for most fights.

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Originally Posted by Crimson_Slasher

As far as you ignoring my question, that comes off as a very Machiavellian perspective, where as i interpret it, you saw an opportunity where you can in one fell swoop try to silence the nay-sayers who feel staffs offer in many cases, random superfluous enhancements (attack/ranged attack say hello.) to redmage, as well as "defeat" those who say the magic accuracy isn't necessary on general content.

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It's more likely that he just couldn't figure out what you were asking exactly, since the question was worded in a peculiar way. I've gone back two pages and read the question four times, read the discussion about it, and I'm still a little confused.

An answer to the question as I understood it: Different people have different notions of "general" content, and probably even different standards for what "reliable" is, so of course they're going to say different stuff.

Random thing but I'll put it here anyway.

Since we got MAB III last level cap I wonder if we'll get MDB III this one, also I wonder if we'll get another fast cast by 99 since they raised the cap.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

It's both, yes. Staves do offer a wide variety of utility, but yes I have always said that one of the key features of Red Mage is its gear selection and ability to switch all of its gear slots at any time. Keeping swords on dashes that versatility in two of the most potent slots, which was the entire point of the conflict he originally cited.

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I hate using a staff and swapping constantly. The reason I use the staff over the blade is because the magic accuracy and magic potency for the right element. If Temper added Magic Attack bonus and Magic accuracy bonuses for bladed weapons I'd love to full time the +15 magic accuracy sword. What seems to be the case with me is equipping a one handed weapon not only lowers magic accuracy but possibly the 2 handed stat bonuses.

Where is blade catalyst / blade finesse (trait) (all MP based magics boosted with a dagger or sword equipped equal to 2-handed staff bonuses(enhanced by sword or dagger skill for benefit bonuses depending on what weapon type is equipped)) This is Similar to mages casting spells with a wand as a catalyst drawing symbols in the air. A RDM equipped with a dagger or sword would use the metal weapon as a catalyst with skills of a master fencer and mage combined to enhance their potency and accuracy. This fits the job type well and would hopefully satisfy both melee and back line mages equally.

or what about the ability to multicast or cast to combine magics. Multicast cast the ability to cast two or more spells once with slowest delay for both.

Temper is nice but I want something more like longer durations equal to my composer for all my buffs that way the cycles are timed by mine wearing off. The catalyst trait would be a nice place t start unless it's added to an item.

Something no other job would have, quick cast will be an ability not a trait right? Just more things to clutter up a single macro set.

Lastly, why isn't death blossom useful? Say 100TP it nullifies 25% enemy enfeeble resistance with aftermath, 200% 50% and with 300% 75% for 300%. Such a good weapon skill wasted on 10 magic accuracy. Th ability to ignore resistance would be a godsend for RDM enfeebles even for a 30 seconds.

Until developers think outside the box for RDM the only thing well see is rehashes for abilities other jobs already have.

RDM isn't meant to be a melee mage DD hybrid, bluemage is. Redmage is a backline support/debuffer job.

Notice how your ideas want to add COMPLETELY insane things that are new and not easily added? There's a reason for that - you're trying to change the job completely. That is not SE's intention.

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Originally Posted by Sarick

Where is blade catalyst / blade finesse (trait) (all MP based magics boosted with a dagger or sword equipped equal to 2-handed staff bonuses(enhanced by sword or dagger skill for benefit bonuses depending on what weapon type is equipped)

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I agree with this idea. We wouldn't really need it if itemization was simple enough that the devs could create real hybrid swords (attack power and direct boosts to spell damage/accuracy instead of having to play with INT, MAB and so on).

It's definitely something to concider, and hey, the less staves matter to us, the better.

A level 99 sword with the same elemental affinities as a set of HQ staffs would be nice. Blue Mage, Red Mage, and even Corsair could all see some benefit from such an item.

An armed revolution to overthrow the bourgeois upper-class, live in their mansions, and eat their pampered children would also be nice.

I seriously doubt either of these things will ever come to pass, and if I had to pick, I'd take the second one anyway.

Edit: Magian staffs would still be better for elemental magic, obviously. Also, now that I think about it, is it even possible for an item to have an affinity for multiple elemental affinities? Even if it is, is there "room" for all of them on one thing even if the effect is hidden?

They may expand on the current ToM weapons, so who knows that may just happen.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

A level 99 sword with the same elemental affinities as a set of HQ staffs would be nice. Blue Mage, Red Mage, and even Corsair could all see some benefit from such an item.

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It might come to pass, but I've been thinking about this for ages. I think a shield with affinity would be better. This could either be "elemental shields" like the staffs, or, a shield with multiple affinities, such as a "Shield of Light" that would have Light, Fire, Thunder, Wind as all being optimized, preferably with no downside (since Shields are more combat oriented and swapping out sucks).

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

RDM isn't meant to be a melee mage DD hybrid, bluemage is. Redmage is a backline support/debuffer job.

Notice how your ideas want to add COMPLETELY insane things that are new and not easily added? There's a reason for that - you're trying to change the job completely. That is not SE's intention.

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How is making it so RDM defaults to a sword over a staff changing the job? RDMs have no skill in staff, they do have B+ in dagger and sword coincidence? In all the FF games that I've played RDM we could choose staff, dagger or sword to fight with. In fact they did rather well as melees in several versions. MY point isn't asking to make RDM a master DD but place the sword and dagger there over a staff without all the penlites associated with choosing that setup. I don't think a silly special sword is the way to go either, no gear isn't the answer. This should be something special that the job benefits from front line, back line or where ever provided a dagger or sword equipped in the main hand. This isn't game breaking or "COMPLETELY insane."

Back before shield mastery and other shield changes a lot of paladins used an earth staff as a main weapon. The reason was for the damage reduction. Soon after these shield changes they became better at helping the job. Players started shifting toward new setups reminiscent of holy knights. The result was players started equipping sword and board setups for the job. I know when I first started RDM way back I didn't find a staff in my inventory I found a dagger. I believe we was given a melee weapon because by design it's what was intended for the job. Unfortunately, the benefits of a staff forced the job to gear outside it's fantasy concept.

I can see the same thing happening here if finesse trait was given to RDM. It wouldn't mean RDM's would suddenly be front line DD's, just that we could do all the stuff you mentioned above without swapping a staff that we don't even have F skill in. In the case of paladin they at least had acceptable staff skill.

As for the combine, or multicast. Red mage cure 4 is too limited but they don't want us to have cure 5 so, why allow us to multicast cure 3 and cure 4 together. Insane, maybe but it's something unique that the devs haven't used yet to my knowledge. It wouldn't be giving away to much either or stealing from another job. After all, Fastcast isn't what it used to be. Now it's so common in gear or other buffs that even standard mages have it. At least RDM is getting quickcast.

Why not try and fix whats wrong. If anything the ideas I posted would make the job better at both back line and front line without sacrificing either.

The actual item class doesn't matter if you're going to be swapping it around, but staff is kind of convenient for the anti-melee since we lack skill in it. All depends on the stats the items themselves bring. Overall, I wouldn't mind some kind of tiered "Magic Fencer" trait (oh lord, I went there...) that could add +1 Affinity per level up to maybe +5 when wielding a sword or dagger. If they don't have a universal affinity trait hiding in the game somewhere already, I doubt it'd be impossible to add. From there, which weapon you opt to use would depend on the situation, like an INT/MATK sword for a bit more oomph, PDT for defense, and maybe we should petition for a Cure Potency sword path. PLDs could benefit from that, too. Just wouldn't look forward to more Light weather hell. x.x

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Originally Posted by Seriha

The actual item class doesn't matter if you're going to be swapping it around, but staff is kind of convenient for the anti-melee since we lack skill in it.

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I'm semi opposed to giving Red Mage Staff skill since I'd much rather see them use a Sword/Dagger, although it does kinda suck, especially since not having Staff skill makes you miss out on Spirit Taker.

Enspells definitely do reward lower delay single handed weapons though, or at least the tier ones did.

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Originally Posted by Seriha

All depends on the stats the items themselves bring.

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A high level shield with magic affinity in either half (alligned with skillchains) or all magic that is about equivelant to the NQ/HQ staffs (with its NQ/HQ), or even better, just a tiny step above, would be a wonderful item, for melee based magic users, and crafters alike.

Red Mages, Blue Mages, Corsairs, Bards, and to a lesser extent Paladins and White Mages would all greatly benefit from an item like this.

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Originally Posted by Seriha

Overall, I wouldn't mind some kind of tiered "Magic Fencer" trait (oh lord, I went there...) that could add +1 Affinity per level up to maybe +5 when wielding a sword or dagger.

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No. SE doesn't give Black Mage affinity, and they said no to White Mage getting Cure Potency even as a merit. Having a native trait that boosts damage in the way affinity does is bad. There are much better ways to do this.

One way in particular, aside from gear, would be for enspells to debuff mobs resistance to magic in a very large way, since this would fit the job quite well.

Another would be to give a low grade (like +1 or +2 like the elemental staves have) affinity for whatever element enspell you have casted on yourself when you have a one handed weapon equipped. But just giving this natively without a spell buffing yourself first, and to all elements seems a bit overpowered, and more importantly, against the feel of not only Red Mage, but all magic using jobs.

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Originally Posted by Seriha

maybe we should petition for a Cure Potency sword path. PLDs could benefit from that, too.

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Right after White Mage gets a Cure Potency club path. Considering the Tefnut Wand, I doubt it will ever happen.

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No. SE doesn't give Black Mage affinity, and they said no to White Mage getting Cure Potency even as a merit. Having a native trait that boosts damage in the way affinity does is bad. There are much better ways to do this.

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In the event the staves continue to evolve, in the end they'd still be greater than the trait for those willing to chase them. Personally, I'm not for the staff equivalent of swords, daggers, or shields as they'll just introduce yet more inventory clutter until SE lets us store weapons. +5 is ambitious, and oftentimes I propose an idea in an "overpowered" state if for any reason to get people talking and thinking about it, for or against. +3 might be more appropriate, but a girl can dream. Ultimately, I'd like to strive for more universal fixes than ones found through gear. For those who don't have said gear, they're SOL.

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Originally Posted by Seriha

Ultimately, I'd like to strive for more universal fixes than ones found through gear. For those who don't have said gear, they're SOL.

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Some White Mages asked for Cure Potency without having to resort to gear. SE told them very clearly in the White Mage Q&A, the very polite equivalent of "Deal with it." I'm not suggestion something unreasonable like "everyone should have either a Relic, Mythic, or Empyrean weapon" but instead that we have a solution with much easier to get gear.

Spells are another way this can be done, but in the end, unless they are merited, spells are just like gear... if you don't have them, you are SOL. This is part of the game...

Well, as I recently argued on Alla, gear should be a supplement, not a source for something. Relics and Empyreans break this rule, with Mythics sliding around it by giving WS access through a quest. It's not a feature I'm particularly fond of, but you'll also see people argue for the existence of such as rewards or trophies. To this day, I still can't say it's reasonable to expect a person to have an Empyrean despite the relative ease of acquisition compared to its counterparts. Jobs should be better distinguished by their features, such as JAs, traits, and spells with, again, our gear building on top of that. And if we're veering back toward highly randomized loot pools like with Voidwatch, some folks will have a hard enough time killing a given mob once let alone the 10+ to maybe not even see what they're after. If people start to discriminate or ridicule for lack of said item, then it's a problem.

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Originally Posted by Seriha

Overall, I wouldn't mind some kind of tiered "Magic Fencer" trait (oh lord, I went there...) that could add +1 Affinity per level up to maybe +5 when wielding a sword or dagger.

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やっと目を覚ましたみたいタル。>.>;

Only real issue with Magic Fencer being tiered is whether we're worried about other jobs getting access to it by subbing RDM.

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Originally Posted by Sarick

How is making it so RDM defaults to a sword over a staff changing the job? RDMs have no skill in staff, they do have B+ in dagger and sword coincidence? In all the FF games that I've played RDM we could choose staff, dagger or sword to fight with. In fact they did rather well as melees in several versions. MY point isn't asking to make RDM a master DD but place the sword and dagger there over a staff without all the penlites associated with choosing that setup. I don't think a silly special sword is the way to go either, no gear isn't the answer. This should be something special that the job benefits from front line, back line or where ever provided a dagger or sword equipped in the main hand. This isn't game breaking or "COMPLETELY insane."

Back before shield mastery and other shield changes a lot of paladins used an earth staff as a main weapon. The reason was for the damage reduction. Soon after these shield changes they became better at helping the job. Players started shifting toward new setups reminiscent of holy knights. The result was players started equipping sword and board setups for the job. I know when I first started RDM way back I didn't find a staff in my inventory I found a dagger. I believe we was given a melee weapon because by design it's what was intended for the job. Unfortunately, the benefits of a staff forced the job to gear outside it's fantasy concept.

I can see the same thing happening here if finesse trait was given to RDM. It wouldn't mean RDM's would suddenly be front line DD's, just that we could do all the stuff you mentioned above without swapping a staff that we don't even have F skill in. In the case of paladin they at least had acceptable staff skill.

As for the combine, or multicast. Red mage cure 4 is too limited but they don't want us to have cure 5 so, why allow us to multicast cure 3 and cure 4 together. Insane, maybe but it's something unique that the devs haven't used yet to my knowledge. It wouldn't be giving away to much either or stealing from another job. After all, Fastcast isn't what it used to be. Now it's so common in gear or other buffs that even standard mages have it. At least RDM is getting quickcast.

Why not try and fix whats wrong. If anything the ideas I posted would make the job better at both back line and front line without sacrificing either.

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I wouldn't waste your time with that one... It's basically 100% troll 0% anything else.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

RDM isn't meant to be a melee mage DD hybrid, bluemage is. Redmage is a backline support/debuffer job.

Notice how your ideas want to add COMPLETELY insane things that are new and not easily added? There's a reason for that - you're trying to change the job completely. That is not SE's intention.

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Enspells
Temper
Gain-Str, Vit, Dex, etc
Magian/Relic/Mythic/Empyrean Swords
Melee Gear (Dusk, Calmecac, Atheling Mantle, Brisk Mask, etc)
Composure's Accuracy Bonus
Etc. (Phalanx, Stoneskin, etc but useful for other situations too)
Etc.
Etc.

Clearly you're right, what on earth were we thinking? SE never intended RDM to ever actually melee anything...

Seriously Shiyo, at this point you're trolling. Even the new Drain-TP sword has RDM on it. I think it's pretty clear they want RDM to melee at least some of the time. Where it's appropriate is debatable.

Late to the discussion on staffs, but here are my thoughts on them in a nutshell.

I think what's tethering us to those godawful, outdated staffs is that they are just too damn good. Period. Not even being sarcastic. We got options in the Magian weapons, but even 39 levels later we can't readily replace those lvl 51 staffs except for.... drumroll... More staffs(magian this time).

Sure, we have the option to have M.Acc swords, or even MAB swords, even dual-wield them and mix and match, but the problem is that even the NQ elemental staffs are STILL better, because they offer both M.Acc and potency to each element. I could carry two of either sword to outdo one or the other, but can't match the full output of the staff. Not to mention how much versatility we'd lose by subbing NIN or DNC just to dual-wield in the first place.

I don't think SE had thought about future prospects much when they put out those elemental staffs. No lvl 51 piece of gear should be that good. Hindsight is a ***ch.

Yeah, clearly I'm trolling, that would explain why not a single piece of our AF3 has a single melee boosting stat on it at all. It would also explain why we've gotten very very very very few pieces of melee gear since 75.

Yep, trolling.

But it's ok, keep thinking RDM is meant to melee, meanwhile everyone who is smart enough to realize a square won't fit into a round hole will be playing bluemage.

Please read, he said some of the time, not all, not most, but some, you're just making yourself look stupid now. Even Whm and Smn can melee some of the time too. Is it efficient for most stuff? No, can you do it on weaker stuff, yes.

5% DA rate is still a pretty terrible spell.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Please read, he said some of the time, not all, not most, but some, you're just making yourself look stupid now. Even Whm and Smn can melee some of the time too. Is it efficient for most stuff? No, can you do it on weaker stuff, yes.

5% DA rate is still a pretty terrible spell.

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Then why are we wasting time on trying to buff our melee if we only melee things that are so weak it doesn't even matter?

....makes no sense. Please buff us for party play and stronger monsters, thank you.

I am hoping that's what the proposed enfeeblement adjustment will do, but I've almost given up on hoping with SE's track history. I don't mind them releasing a melee spell, but this one is nearly as bad as Enspell 2 as it stands in my opinion.

Also the warlock gloves/boots raise parrying/shield, which are technically frontline buffs, parrying is a bit iffy since one can parry with a staff, but shield is not. And warlock gloves and duelist tights have dex on them, but im sure thats so we can...uhm...magic...better? Then again square does like picking one piece of the origional AF gear and just going "Random stat goes here!" like rdm's chr on warlock body, or smn's vit on...i believe gloves? Or whm's str on gloves (which is awesome) or so-on.

Saying a RDM should get a reraise spell is like saying PLD should get it too, they never had that line of spells.

I would be more upset over not having something to compare to cure V then reraise, ohhhhh a main job that has a line of spells has the same spells off a sub, that's logical.

Why should sub haste be the same amount as it coming from a main? I still think SE did not really thought out the spell progress jobs should have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Yeah, clearly I'm trolling, that would explain why not a single piece of our AF3 has a single melee boosting stat on it at all. It would also explain why we've gotten very very very very few pieces of melee gear since 75.

Yep, trolling.

But it's ok, keep thinking RDM is meant to melee, meanwhile everyone who is smart enough to realize a square won't fit into a round hole will be playing bluemage.

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EDIT: On second thought, nevermind. It's clear from your posts you have zero knowledge of RDM outside of opening chests and healing, and have zero interest in hearing any other input than your own, so there's really nothing left for either of us to say to each other.

Edit: post I was responding to got edited. Now I has a sad.