Job Manifesto discussion RE: Summoner

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

K edited. . _ .

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Thanks : D

Rerail attempt post No.3... maybe it's 4

Does anyone else think this new ability to lower BP delay should be free to use? We already spend MP to use the BP anyway, if we use 2 Predator Claws a minute it would cost us 328MP p/min which would cause us to run out of MP soon enough anyway before we added Wards, causing us to have to manage our MP without needing an additional cost to force it.

It should be without an additional cost, for the same reason of what you said.

I agree with my quote, LLH. Hard to argue that any of you care that you are half as effective as me, and to be honest, I enjoy the joke. I don't need to prove anything the the willfully gimp.

That didn't last long >.<

This time, I think I'll ignore it.

I don't think it should cost MP, but maybe HP? Or maybe Avatar recast time?

Like using the ability "shares" a timer with Avatar spells. Shares as in when you use it, it puts the avatar recast up to 30 seconds or something, which would really go along with SE's idea of SMN.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

This time, I think I'll ignore it.

I don't think it should cost MP, but maybe HP? Or maybe Avatar recast time?

Like using the ability "shares" a timer with Avatar spells. Shares as in when you use it, it puts the avatar recast up to 30 seconds or something, which would really go along with SE's idea of SMN.

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That would be interesting, I always felt our BPs should involve using our HP in someway.

Avatar recast would be ok, can see it having a negative impact on the user but not completely crippling either.

You'd just have to think about your situation, and probably only end up using it directly after casting an avatar to make sure you don't experience any downtime. So, balance wise it's not that great of an idea, but at least it's something to go off of.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

You'd just have to think about your situation, and probably only end up using it directly after casting an avatar to make sure you don't experience any downtime. So, balance wise it's not that great of an idea, but at least it's something to go off of.

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Maybe it be a cumulative effect of 15~seconds, use it 3 times recast is 75 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Razushu

Maybe it be a cumulative effect of 15~seconds, use it 3 times recast is 75 seconds.

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It could be really cool, and a lot more in depth than simple MP cost: 100, BP Recast -15

I'm afraid it will be along the lines of mana cede with a 5 min recast.....I hope this is not the case....

I just wish SE would get a clue and see how they keep butchering SMN.

Like SAM gets a 3 min meditate ability, no penalties, at level 30. SMN gets Mana Cede at 87, with 5 min recast, that costs 100 MP to get 100 TP to a pet, which only can transfer this TP to boost elemental attacks by about 200 damage.

Ok... 100 MP and SMN can do 200 damage more. No cost at all, and a SAM can do 1k+ more with a WS?

I get it. SAM is SE's love child, and SMN is the bastard child that nobody wanted and should just be punished for everything it does.

SE can prove me wrong, by giving us a job ability that is a stance and will last a long duration and let us BP whenever we want, for an additional proportional fee relative to pact cost and time remaining on BP timer.

Just ignore him Raz, your idea for the new JA that will lower BP timer was good.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

I just wish SE would get a clue and see how they keep butchering SMN.

Like SAM gets a 3 min meditate ability, no penalties, at level 30. SMN gets Mana Cede at 87, with 5 min recast, that costs 100 MP to get 100 TP to a pet, which only can transfer this TP to boost elemental attacks by about 200 damage.

Ok... 100 MP and SMN can do 200 damage more. No cost at all, and a SAM can do 1k+ more with a WS?

I get it. SAM is SE's love child, and SMN is the bastard child that nobody wanted and should just be punished for everything it does.

SE can prove me wrong, by giving us a job ability that is a stance and will last a long duration and let us BP whenever we want, for an additional proportional fee relative to pact cost and time remaining on BP timer.

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So, what do you really want?

You want SMN to be the best job out there? It already is, you just haven't seen it yet because you are blinded by the negatives of the job instead of actually looking for the positives of the job.

Stop being so negative all the time, it is getting old.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

I just wish SE would get a clue and see how they keep butchering SMN.

Like SAM gets a 3 min meditate ability, no penalties, at level 30. SMN gets Mana Cede at 87, with 5 min recast, that costs 100 MP to get 100 TP to a pet, which only can transfer this TP to boost elemental attacks by about 200 damage.

Ok... 100 MP and SMN can do 200 damage more. No cost at all, and a SAM can do 1k+ more with a WS?

I get it. SAM is SE's love child, and SMN is the bastard child that nobody wanted and should just be punished for everything it does.

SE can prove me wrong, by giving us a job ability that is a stance and will last a long duration and let us BP whenever we want, for an additional proportional fee relative to pact cost and time remaining on BP timer.

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I'm going to be optimistic, SE have been coming through for us lately, hopefully the new ability will be a stance seeing as the manifesto says "A new ability that expends an additional amount of MP to shorten the recast time for blood pacts". It says plural so I don't think it will be a one shot 5 min ability.

-EDIT-

Also I'm ok with SAM's DD abilities > ours, we are much better at, healing, buffing, and kiting. I'm not too upset that Meditate> Mana Cede because sure a SAM will put out higher damage(their sole role), but we can haste a party much better.

I think your idea raz and my ability idea as a mixed into a stance would be solid. I'll see if I can find it again.

**Edit

Found it

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I would like to see the new JA work along these examples
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 60 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 60*2=120 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 50 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 50*2=100 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 40 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 40*2=80 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 30 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 30*2=60 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 20 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 20*2=40 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 10 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 10*2=20 MP

Yes Please

I would not want the new JA to work like this

Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 60 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 50 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 40 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 30 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 20 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 10 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100

No Thanks

Will be total crap if it is only a fixed amount of MP, this will feel along the lines of when BP's used to activate when a mob ran out of range. The penalty will be x amount of MP lost if you activate the new JA when the recast is like @ 2 seconds left by accident. I hope this is not the case.

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Originally Posted by Soundwave

I think your idea raz and my ability idea as a mixed into a stance would be solid. I'll see if I can find it again.

**Edit

Found it

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I would like to see the new JA work along these examples
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 60 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 60*2=120 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 50 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 50*2=100 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 40 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 40*2=80 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 30 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 30*2=60 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 20 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 20*2=40 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 10 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 10*2=20 MP

Yes Please

I would not want the new JA to work like this

Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 60 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 50 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 40 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 30 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 20 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 10 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100

No Thanks

Will be total crap if it is only a fixed amount of MP, this will feel along the lines of when BP's used to activate when a mob ran out of range. The penalty will be x amount of MP lost if you activate the new JA when the recast is like @ 2 seconds left by accident. I hope this is not the case.

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I like your idea and a combo of yours with a non-MP cost would be close to perfect. Something like a summoning recast penalty or a HP penalty would be really interesting, a HP cost could work like yours. Ability HP cost= Blood Pact recast*4, so if you use Predator claws back to back you lose 180HP to activate, this would at the very least lead to some very interesting "Whoops I killed myself" stories:D

The more I think on it, the more I'm against an MP cost for this ability we already pay MP to do anything on SMN, and it's not cheap. Even if this ability was free the cost of the pacts will be more than enough to make us pay close attention to our MP and what we're doing.

I agree, I can live with a summoning magic recast penalty, I'm sure there will be some type of penalty I only hope its nothing to punishing.

Job Ability (Stance) Astral Void
Recast Timer: 00:10
When in Astral Void stance the Blood Pact: Rage timers will be reset with the respecting set amount of MP below.
Penalty for having this stance on will result in increase Blood Pact: Ward Timers.

Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 60 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 60*2=120 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 50 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 50*2=100 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 40 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 40*2=80 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 30 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 30*2=60 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 20 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 20*2=40 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 10 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 10*2=20 MP

In conjunction with Astral Void

Job Ability (Stance) Astral Life
Recast Timer: 00:10
When in Astral Life stance the Blood Pact: Ward timers will be reset with the respecting set amount of HP below.
Penalty for having this stance on will result in increase Blood Pact: Rage Timers.

Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 60 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 60*2=120 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 50 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 50*2=100 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 40 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 40*2=80 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 30 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 30*2=60 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 20 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 20*2=40 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 10 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 10*2=20 HP

"If" these two were to be added, only one JA would be in effect at a time and would mean the summoner must chose between attacker or Buffer etc.

Any thoughts? Constructive feed back please.

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Originally Posted by Soundwave

I agree, I can live with a summoning magic recast penalty, I'm sure there will be some type of penalty I only hope its nothing to punishing.

Job Ability (Stance) Astral Void
Recast Timer: 00:10
When in Astral Void stance the Blood Pact: Rage timers will be reset with the respecting set amount of MP below.
Penalty for having this stance on will result in increase Blood Pact: Ward Timers.

Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 60 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 60*2=120 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 50 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 50*2=100 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 40 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 40*2=80 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 30 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 30*2=60 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 20 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 20*2=40 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 10 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 10*2=20 MP

In conjunction with Astral Void

Job Ability (Stance) Astral Life
Recast Timer: 00:10
When in Astral Life stance the Blood Pact: Ward timers will be reset with the respecting set amount of HP below.
Penalty for having this stance on will result in increase Blood Pact: Rage Timers.

Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 60 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 60*2=120 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 50 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 50*2=100 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 40 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 40*2=80 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 30 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 30*2=60 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 20 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 20*2=40 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 10 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 10*2=20 HP

"If" these two were to be added, only one JA would be in effect at a time and would mean the summoner must chose between attacker or Buffer etc.

Any thoughts? Constructive feed back please.

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Maybe a penalty to the other school of pacts could work also?

Astral void would place a x2 cost on the price of wards, and vice versa. This idea would probably require a static reduction in recast to be balanced though.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

So, what do you really want?

You want SMN to be the best job out there? It already is, you just haven't seen it yet because you are blinded by the negatives of the job instead of actually looking for the positives of the job.

Stop being so negative all the time, it is getting old.

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What I want is simple. I don't want extra costs and penalties for things that are worse than what other jobs get for free. SAM is fine doing 1k while I do 200 with my TP, what isn't fine is that it costs 100 MP.

I don't like that it costs 100 MP to get 100 TP when SAM gets 100 TP for free.

SAM having a 3 min recast on 100 TP while SMN has 5, is just a slight annoyance.

SAM getting 100% TP equals a SMN getting 0 seconds left on BP timer. A SMN getting 100% TP isn't near the same thing.

Am I getting my point across, or do I have to speak a different language? If my abilities are worse, why am I penalized more for them? That is my one big question regarding Summoner.

This is of course assuming you made the mistake to think I complained about the 1k damage vs 200 damage. Raz certainly did. Though I never expected any of you two to actually get my point. Nothing personal, just my experience so far.

I want some videos of new stuffs in action Camate!

Please! Lets see our Cat in action!

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

I don't like that it costs 100 MP to get 100 TP when SAM gets 100 TP for free.

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Well Sams TP is for WS and only Weapon skills not counting group2 merit
Summoners ES is for MP which = wide variety of skills. Summoner also has a wide variety to help increase the amount of MP.(Which will be SE's defense for 5 min recast.)
However I'm not against a 3 min recast ES.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

What I want is simple. I don't want extra costs and penalties for things that are worse than what other jobs get for free. SAM is fine doing 1k while I do 200 with my TP, what isn't fine is that it costs 100 MP.

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We're mages MP cost is just a fact of life for us, I've made peace with that.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

I don't like that it costs 100 MP to get 100 TP when SAM gets 100 TP for free.

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It's only 100MP every 5 minutes, we're mages things we do cost MP, for SMN that includes /ja's.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

SAM having a 3 min recast on 100 TP while SMN has 5, is just a slight annoyance.

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This I agree with, although I guess Mana Cede is like our "SEAL" ability so they gave it a higher recast, in all honesty given it has a cost it should be on a 60sec timer, that is affected by Blood Pact delay -.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

SAM getting 100% TP equals a SMN getting 0 seconds left on BP timer. A SMN getting 100% TP isn't near the same thing.

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This new abilty will be like meditate, hopefully just superficially, in the way it lowers time between BPs. I don't think anyone wants a 1shot ability.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Am I getting my point across, or do I have to speak a different language? If my abilities are worse, why am I penalized more for them? That is my one big question regarding Summoner.

This is of course assuming you made the mistake to think I complained about the 1k damage vs 200 damage. Raz certainly did. Though I never expected any of you two to actually get my point. Nothing personal, just my experience so far.

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I actually didn't, I understood you perfectly, maybe I wasn't clear enough, but I never mentioned the disparity in damage. Which would be a stupid thing to focus on seeing as the abilities are different in function, SAMs increase their damage output by granting an extra WS, while ours increases damage output by just boosting the damage of one of our attacks.

I got your point, that you're upset we pay more for our abilities, fact is though all mages pay more for their abilities, it's just a reality of the game(although you could argue that melees pay for theirs by being the ones to get pounded on by the mob). SE has been doing right by us since >75 cap, and that's probably not going to change, until it does they will get the benefit of the doubt.

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I got your point, that you're upset we pay more for our abilities, fact is though all mages pay more for their abilities, it's just a reality of the game(although you could argue that melees pay for theirs by being the ones to get pounded on by the mob).

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What fact that mages pay more for all their abilities?

Scholar:
Negative effect of arts is that you are 10% worse at the opposite. Meaning it is a penalty if you attempt to play two roles.
Sublimation drains HP to give MP. Negligable cost since draining 46 HP restores 200 HP with a cure III.

White mage:
You lose HP on martyr to give other person HP. Not exactly a big deal since it is an emergency ability when you have no MP to spend.
You lose HP to give MP on devotion. Not really that negative since again HP is easily restored.

Red mage:
Composure will give you a higher recast. Bad if you are hasting 6 people, but it isn't really those moments you are supposed to use the ability anyway. Pretty much only bad when soloing as RDM/NIN.
Convert takes HP and gives MP. Again, a favorable swap since you can refill HP much easier than MP.

Black mage:
Nothing negative. All JA's have only positive effects. (Unless you want to complain that mana wall drains MP when you get hit)

Blue mage:
Convergence does limit your AOE to single target which could be seen as a penalty. But it sounds more like the whole idea of "focusing the damage to deal more damage to a single target" thing.

Bard:
Troubadour could be claimed to be negative with it taking 1.5 the time to cast songs while doubling the duration.

Summoner:
Mana cede costs 100 MP to give 100 TP. Had it been 100 HP, I'd just shrugged it off. Same deal as for WHM in that case, or for RDM. But MP? Nobody else pays MP for their abilities. NOBODY.
Avatar's favor does a 20% damage reduction to compensate for -2 perpetuation and an Aura effect. In addition each time you use rage pacts, you weaken your aura.

Comparing the above jobs I would claim Summoner got the shortest straw. And I can't understand where you get the impression the other mages are paying terrible prices for their abilities. (And apparently BLM is the winner with not a single negative ability)

I'd gladly swap with most of the jobs. I'd take 100 HP for mana cede cost, that will be a breeze. Then I'll take 1.5 times the recast on spells instead of 20% damage penalty for avatars favor. Now SMN pays as much as WHM or RDM for the abilities, and somehow it is a vast improvement over what SMNs used to pay. How is that possible if all mages pay the same high price?

Mala, you are complaining for the sake of complaining. Everything in the above post is utter BS and you know it, but you still posted it just because you are such a negative person and never think about the positives of a job or ability .

You're speaking to Mellowy and he could turn a conversation about income taxes into an argument about Summoner.

It's what makes him.... him.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

ive with it taking 1.5 the time to cast songs while doubling the duration.Summoner:
Mana cede costs 100 MP to give 100 TP. Had it been 100 HP, I'd just shrugged it off. Same deal as for WHM in that case, or for RDM. But MP? Nobody else pays MP for their abilities. NOBODY.
Avatar's favor does a 20% damage reduction to compensate for -2 perpetuation and an Aura effect. In addition each time you use rage pacts, you weaken your aura.

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Well again, in a different answer: Summoners focus point is our MP, it is why we have so much MP and MP Boost....so much gear that gives +MP etc. Where summoner is weakened SE gives us a chance to accomplish back though other means. You want summoner to be perfect/flawless I just don't see this happening.

Going along by being a hate free job, I can understand why we are penalized for selected things.

p.s. love your sig Sparthos

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Originally Posted by Soundwave

Well again, in a different answer: Summoners focus point is our MP, it is why we have so much MP and MP Boost....so much gear that gives +MP etc. Where summoner is weakened SE gives us a chance to accomplish back though other means. You want summoner to be perfect/flawless I just don't see this happening.

Going along by being a hate free job, I can understand why we are penalized for selected things.

p.s. love your sig Sparthos

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I gotta give the credit to Kingfury, he turned my concept into exactly what I wanted.

All SE needs to do is to add more HP to our avatar 20-30% more, boost its attack and defense, lower perpetuation cost by 2 and boost our mp pool by 30%. Then Smn is good, balanced with some penalty but that's the price you pay for having a pet that you can summon at all times with very little hate.

They do need to update all pets in terms of dealing damage now, I do agree with that.

Lets change the subject shall we???

こんにちは。

皆さんからのフィードバックを元に、次回バージョンアップでは以下の調整を行う予定です。

カーバンクル：ルビーの安らぎ Lv94
　　範囲内のパーティメンバーの状態異常を複数個回復。（※）
ラムウ：スタンガ Lv92
　　範囲内の敵を短時間行動できなくする。


ということで、まずは状況に応じて様々な召喚獣が今よりも活躍できるよう調整を行っていきます。引き続きよろしくお願いいたします。

※湧水との棲み分けのため、利便性を上げられるように目下調整・検証中です。

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Translation

Carbuncle: Lv94 peace ruby
Removes all status aliments to party in range.

Ramuu: Lv92 Sutanga
Stuns multiple targets

Spring Water is currently being tested and being re-worked.

p.s. they want to hear more feedback on Blood Pacts for further adjustments so please leave your feedback.

I hope that Peace Ruby will erase ALL debuffs including amnesia and curse/doom 100% of the time.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

I hope that Peace Ruby will erase ALL debuffs including amnesia and curse/doom 100% of the time.

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I Think it will because they are re looking at Spring Water, so it would only make sense to.

Ramuh's BP will be absolutely worthless if its got the same long-ass charge timer as every other single BP to date...

Carby's will be very very very very very situational.

Spring Water (I assume thats what they meant) Being reworked? I feel a nerf coming so Carby's BP seems more special.

Over-all very Meh, But at least we know what to expect, And i can be happy with that!

Edit: Feed back on Current Bloodpacts?

Raise the power of 75BP's again, But only slightly, please. Increase the power of 70BPs for Titan, Levia, Ifrit, Ramuh, and Shiva, cause right now theres little reason to use anything other than Predator Claws.

Maybe make Carbuncle not a furry little useless pet? Increase the Combat abilities of Holy Mist so that it does more than 100 damage over Meteorite? It costs about the same MP as the 70~75 BPs theres no reason it should be so pathetically weak.

Make Titan's "Earthern Ward" Increase in potency along with duration with Summoning Magic over cap, Maybe cap out Titans Stoneskin at 350 or so. With Accession-Stoneskin, This isn't asking a lot.

Perhaps rework a few more wards to be a bit more potent... Like Warcry one, and the Enthunder one... so on.

I dunno how I feel about Stunga......like when would you use it lol?

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

SAM having a 3 min recast on 100 TP while SMN has 5, is just a slight annoyance.

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Oh dear, First you weren't happy about PUPs being a better front line job DD than SMNs and comparing the two totally different polar opposite jobs and now it's SAM... What's next RNG?

SAMs use Meditate to you know to weaponskill and skll chain while SMNs don't.

By the way, SAMs are not the love children of SE anymore. WARs, MNKs and NINs are. But mostly WARs..

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Originally Posted by Soundwave

I dunno how I feel about Stunga......like when would you use it lol?

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Hmmm... I guess when you are dong Crowd control like a SCH would. I usually Stunga when we aggro a bunch of mobs in Dyna or in Abyssea mass pulling for BLMs or WARs.

Well I guess a good + is with this being a Ward I'm assuming, maybe it will make Ramuh shine a bit more to a used avatar. instead of Shiva Shiva Shiva.

Also Ramuh will now have two types of stuns at will now, technically 3 but 2 on the same timer.

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Originally Posted by Soundwave

I dunno how I feel about Stunga......like when would you use it lol?

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With a very long TP move.....or when the mob is about to hit 25% HP (which is when anybody with stun should use it if it is up anyway, that is almost a guaranteed TP move right there)

If under the effect of Ward and If its not instant what good is this stun?

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Originally Posted by Soundwave

Well I guess a good + is with this being a Ward I'm assuming, maybe it will make Ramuh shine a bit more to a used avatar. instead of Shiva shiva shiva.

Well at least Ramuh will now have two types of stuns at will now, technically 3 but 2 on the same timer.

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Shiva's only the "best" magical one because of Abyssea and Atma of the Beyond.

Outside of that its mostly equal, However since you can only pick 2 BP's to fully Merit, and the difference in power thanks to TP from a Fully merited one, and one with only a single merit is so large, You generally merit to max your favorite/Best performer and go from there.

Outside, Technically Ifrit's is the most powerful, thanks to that new Fervor Ring increasing ifrits Magic Attack by like, 1.

Its a matter of preferences, the only reason you see shiva is because people prefer her, shes no more powerful than any others.