No you're wrong. Just because you can do everything on a 1000 people server on paper, doesn't mean you can pull it off on practice. I can't just server transfer to a 5000 people server(if they exist) and finish all T4 in a day, I still need to go through the process of sending out app to endgame LSs, begging every leader for a pearl, lv new jobs to fulfill their needs, take time to chat and build connections etc and that is A LOT of time investment. While I can finish all T4s in a day on a 300 people server with LS(s) that I'm already in, gain leadership positions and organize my own endgame runs, use my favorite setup, get 5 extra prebuff mules without having to pay people. I can't do any of these things on any of the NotRagnarok server without heavy time investment just because I don't have the connections to do so. Even if you think I can if I want to/work hard/lv 4+ mules myself, I can't, realistically speaking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jin_Uzuki
Doing certain stuff is more than just pull people out of a big number pools, it involves many, many, many different factors.
The endgame environment of Asura is just too different from NotAsura. Lower multi box rate, highly competitive job market, less opportunity to gain social influences in endgame scenes(unless you're some kind of superstar player) are some of the Asura traits. Think of it as big city with google/microsoft v.s smaller towns. When you send out a job app to a big company in a big city, you're competing with 400 people wanting the same job and you don't necessary get one. When you send out an app to a small company in your hometown you get the job more easily and gets promotion faster. And there's very little you can do to change that fact. Can you get a job at Microsoft if you work hard? Sure you can! But not everyone can or wants to. Some people may become super successful in big cities, some people just don't and live on streets when they could have at least got a manager job in their hometown, at family owned cornerstore.
My point is, everyone has different circumstances. What works for one person doesn't necessary work for everyone.
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01-11-2017, 03:15 AMAfania
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01-11-2017, 04:09 AMdetlef
Diavolo and Jin. You guys are arguing in absolutes. You're not arguing that X is generally better than Y. You're arguing that X is always better than Y with no exceptions. In FFXI and in life, we know that's not the case.
I've already acknowledged that yes, there's a chance that Asura is the best server for a player (or a returning player, as that's what the thread was originally about). But again, is it not possible for a player to prefer a different server? -
01-11-2017, 05:03 AMJin_UzukiNo, it's not. I played on both a low populated server and a a high populated server. Heck I played on Ragnarok in 2006 when the server was literally exploding with players!Quote:
Originally Posted by Afania
The only difference is that you got 1000 players running around instead of 400. That's all. Which are low. 1000 players are absolutely low in a MMORPG.
(Both servers don't have 400 and 1000 players running around anyway once you start to count anyway because you need to take afk, bazaar, etc that grow as the playerbase grow)
You keep thinking I'm telling you to switch server, but I'm not. I'm telling you if your server had 1000 players literally nothing would change except things so small that they wouldn't be an issue unless you choose to make them so and will require you to ignore the advantages a more rich playerbase bring. -
01-11-2017, 05:27 AMAfania
double post
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01-11-2017, 05:42 AMAfaniaAt this point I don't know if you even get my point since we're saying completely different things. I'm talking about endgame(WoC/T4/PW2), not ambuscade, vagary, domain evasion, crafting, WKR htbc, T1~T3. On the other hand you're obviously talking about ambuscade, vagary, domain evasion, crafting, WKR, htbc, T1~T3 but not endgame because you probably don't even do high lv endgame.(If you do then you won't even ask about pop spot advantages as every endgame player knows what they're for)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jin_Uzuki
Assuming 10% of playerbase does endgame regardless of server. Using your number of 1000 v.s 400, here's the math.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jin_Uzuki
Assuming Server A has 1000 players, 100 are endgame players that can kill WoC/T4(10% of players are endgame players), I have 10% success rate on big server endgame LS applications, out of all 100 endgame players, I only get to do WoC/T4 with 10 people because 10% of 100=10.
Assuming Server B has 400 players, 40 can kill WoC/T4(10% endgame players), with 100% application success rate, I get to do endgame with 40 people because 100% of 40 is 40.
There, you guys prefer math and numbers, and here is math and numbers. 40 > 10.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Afania
Not very convincing from someone who obviously don't do endgame on a regular basis, nor have fundamental understanding of how top end endgame LS power structure works on various servers. Just because you have "played" on those servers, doesn't mean you're right. Ambuscade/CP pt/T1 to T3 could be all you do on those servers, and you can still pop on the forum and claim you have "played" on all those servers. But you're still wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jin_Uzuki
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01-11-2017, 05:46 AMDiavoloMy argument is that anyone - and all their friends/LS mates if need be - can play the game the same way they're currently playing it if they moved servers. That being true, what purpose does a smaller server retain? Moving to Asura doesn't stop you from doing anything you're currently doing and, on top of that, presents you with new options the smaller servers do not. I use Asura as the standard not because I have friends there (though some did move there before/after and with me) but because, in all likelihood, no other server will come close to matching its English speaking player base before the game shuts down completely and 1,600 simultaneous accounts online is still a far cry from the numbers we used to play with. So, even if you're of the opinion that the game is 2x, 4x, 6x or whatever amount more demanding on the servers as it used to be there is still room to grow. 16 servers in 2017 is just too many. Players who return from a long hiatus often wind up hitting the message boards and asking where to transfer to because their servers are, in their eyes, dead compared to what they remembered. Why does this need to be a thing? Twice before in the game's history it consolidated servers when their numbers went too low for the dev team's liking. Those servers that were underpopulated in March 2010 and May 2011 were all more populated than Asura currently is today. Can we stop acting like 1,600 simultaneous players is too much for a world the size of FFXI's?Quote:
Originally Posted by detlef
Afania's anecdotal evidence of submitting LS applications on multiple servers comes with the obvious downside of being incapable of more thoroughly examining the playing field on his own terms and interacting with players beyond a message board, so is it any surprise that he got rejected by everyone except those he had personal ties to? Of course not. Like I told him earlier in the thread, I don't expect people to uproot themselves and leave their friends behind, but if you were able to get everyone you played with to move with you then you would all be better off on the largest server. It is as simple as that.
If there is something you can do on a smaller server that's impossible to do on the larger ones I'd love to hear it. It might do this discussion some good as the accusations of hurling personal insults and having words stuffed down my throat are starting to get annoying. -
01-11-2017, 05:51 AMJin_UzukiWhat kind of bizarre definition of endgame is this? Even if you take out Vagary and Ambu despite the fact they are 99 events, who the hell excludes T1-3? Especially Reisenjima ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Afania
Or probably because I don't use the restrictive endgame definition as you. No one talks about "endgame" using exclusively WoC and T4. You can do Vir'ava, Maju and Escha T4 at #1 and #9 all the sameQuote:
(If you do then you won't even ask about pop spot advantages as every endgame player knows what they're for)
Quote:
Assuming 10% of playerbase does endgame regardless of server. Using your number of 1000 v.s 400, here's the math.
Assuming Server A has 1000 players, 100 are endgame players that can kill WoC/T4(10% of players are endgame players), I have 10% success rate on big server endgame LS applications, out of all 100 endgame players, I only get to do WoC/T4 with 10 people because 10% of 100=10.
Assuming Server B has 400 players, 40 can kill WoC/T4(10% endgame players), with 100% application success rate, I get to do endgame with 40 people because 100% of 40 is 40.
There, you guys prefer math and numbers, and here is math and numbers. 40 > 10.
... what. -
01-11-2017, 06:04 AMAfaniaWhile I agree the rejection rate is most likely because of connection(that's like, literally the entire point I've been making) and possibly the higher competition in the job market, it's not possible to move entire server of NA population from one server to another like you claimed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diavolo
Again, you keep saying "just move, everyone move!", but that's not going to happen. In past 2 years, some people have moved, some people don't, and claimed that they will never move because they don't give a damn about progression speed. You keep having this ideal scenario in your head that entire community could just move without a word, but you didn't consider the unique scenario that some people simply just don't move. You also speak strictly from a more general perspective, from a bigger picture, while I speak from an individual pov.
And even if in your most ideal scenario that all the none big 3 server players move to Asura, that's 12 servers of population. 12x300= 3600. That's 3600+ more people adding to Asura's 1200 people, making it 4800+. Even if competition on Asura is tolerable now with 1200 players, it certainly won't be with 4800. In fact I think at that point it'd hurt Asura more than anything. And I certainly, for sure, without doubt, don't want to play on a server with close to 5000 people even if all my connections are around.
Also to people who repeatly play the "but other MMO has more than that" or "but 2006 FFXI has more than that" card. Other MMO has instances, FFXI doesn't. 2006 FFXI has multiple EXP camps accross all lv, 2017 FFXI only has 1 real endgame content which is T4/Kirin, and only 1 (ideal)pop spot for those NM. And yes, people schedule dynamis back then, and you also did dyna on a weekly basis that you aren't losing any dyna runs by scheduling, unlike these days there are multiple small groups spams escha NM daily.
The situations are so different that idk what to say when I read "other MMO" or "2006 FFXI" -
01-11-2017, 06:06 AMAfaniaBecause some people seeks T4/Kirin/WoC/master trials/PW2 activities, but they don't need T1/T3 at all. So they choose a server that gives them the best chance to do these things. While you pop on the forum and tell people "no your choice is wrong" without considering other people have different goals/preferred content from you, thus unable to make the same choice as you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jin_Uzuki
You're making a "general" argument, but that argument doesn't apply to everyone on the planet, who has drastically different in game goals from you.
I can do T1~T3 easily regardless of server, so "I need T1/T3" is never the reason why I consider/don't consider a server. All those servers are just not the same because of people that I know, or don't know.
If anything, want to play with/need X, Y, Z players has been the main reason why I choose a server in past 2 years. But not the population number. -
01-11-2017, 06:34 AMAfania
Also @Diavolo, none of my argument is anti merge if you're worried about SE won't merge servers because of people's opinion about smaller servers. My entire argument in this discussion has been about connections and how current escha game content doesn't favor server size TOO big. I think 1000 people or even 1500 people is just fine as it is, and I certainly don't mind merging servers. 5000 people is definitely not ok for Escha content, and possibly other contents though.