Cait Sith / Atomos

I almost completely agree with your description Arciel but I wouldn't say you're "correcting" any one. Parts of that you are just submitting your own interpretation because there is no current official story related part to tie it together.

Regarding your view of Carbuncle being labeled a trickster because of him misleading Summoners to siphon power for his own cause. Carbuncle was very clear on what he asked of and never tricks you into doing it.

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Originally Posted by Carbuncle, I Can Hear a Rainbow quest

I demand you perform a labor: visit the ancient beings that sleep in faraway lands and places of legend. Vana’diel is the world in which you live. You should see the true Vana’diel with your own eyes. I will extend a bridge. A bridge between the people of the present, and beings of ages past.

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He is very clear from the beginning what his goals are and explains them even more during Waking the Beast. I can see how the Celestial Avatars however, think he's a trickster simply because they find him to be a false god and don't trust him.

Odin and Alexander are grouped together with the other Celestial Avatars because that's what they all are. They aren't asleep but it doesn't put them in a separate category. They each have dominion over 1 of the 8 elements of Vana'diel, awake or asleep.

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Originally Posted by Arciel

Odin's Protocrystal wasn't shattered because someone summoned the Dark Rider. It was shattered because the beastmen captured Emeline and brought her to Bearclaw Pinnacle to sing the entire Lay of the Immortals. However, Odin is not like the other sleeping gods as he rules the underworld or something to that extent and can already manifest and act independently in Vana'diel. That is why he's able to do the whole Dark Rider thing and fight Alexander in Ragnarok. That is also how he could grant Raogrimm powers to become the Shadow Lord.

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This is all correct except for the very last part. When Raogrimm obtained the power to become the Shadow Lord, Odin was still within his protocrystal. Remember the timeline. The Shadow Lord attacked Tavnazia with his army, and took Emeline, meaning that Odin must have still been in the protocrystal when the Shadow Lord was created. In the WotG missions, there was a massive blast of darkness that came from north of castle Z. I believe this was when Odin was released from his protocrystal by Emeline. For anyone who doesn't remember Emeline waking the Dark Divinity, talk to the Bard in Selbina, and view the promathia mission "More Questions than Answers". Also, the side quests "Tuning In" and "Tuning Out" revolved around Odin's old protocrystal.

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Originally Posted by rufuslupus

The missing piece of the puzzle is why is odin and alexander awake. It is a story square enix has yet to tell. Also we don’t know what alexander looks like yet either. The empires, old and new, keep building him a vessel to possess. Is alex outside the realm of vana’diel because odin won’t let him in? or contained in the artifact in whitegate cause of him, we don’t know.

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I've explained why Odin is awake above. We do know what Alexander looks like. When the Gordeus was opened by the puppets, Alexander's true form appeared. The image can be found here, although during the mission I think it was lighted differently, and had a darker, more reddish hue:
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8...erfrontdm9.jpg
Alexander (the ruins version) was used 200 years ago. I'm only speculating here, but it seems that before then, the protocrystal must have been found by the empire, and destroyed. Alexander must have been captured within the Gordeus in order to control the ruins. Another speculation about where the light protocrystal must have been placed is based on the weather patterns of Vana'diel. Protocrystals all reside within areas that experience their element of weather. Following this train of though, the location of the light protocrystal could be Qufim, or Tu'Lia.

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Originally Posted by rufuslupus

If he is outside then the discussion wanders into wotg confusion with the 2 odins talk.

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There is only one Odin. Odin shared his power with Raogrimm to sate his rage, thus turning him into the Shadow Lord. This doesn't mean that Odin is allied with the Shadow Lord, simply that he shared his power with someone capable of bringing death and destruction to the world. In the alternate WotG timeline, Lillith got her power from Odin as well, the very same Odin that granted power to the Shadow Lord. Again, he saw someone capable of bringing death and destruction to the world, and awarded her with dark powers, and the ability to call forth demons. He could care less who carries his power, only that the end result is a world filled with darkness and destruction.

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Originally Posted by Rakshaka

This is all correct except for the very last part. When Raogrimm obtained the power to become the Shadow Lord, Odin was still within his protocrystal. Remember the timeline. The Shadow Lord attacked Tavnazia with his army, and took Emeline, meaning that Odin must have still been in the protocrystal when the Shadow Lord was created. In the WotG missions, there was a massive blast of darkness that came from north of castle Z. I believe this was when Odin was released from his protocrystal by Emeline. For anyone who doesn't remember Emeline waking the Dark Divinity, talk to the Bard in Selbina, and view the promathia mission "More Questions than Answers". Also, the side quests "Tuning In" and "Tuning Out" revolved around Odin's old protocrystal.

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Ok I went back and rewatched cop mission 5-3 ulmia’s path. Now Im set straight.

The crystal that drove the allied expedition mad was a piece of the star of tavnazia. The star of tavnazia is magicite with emptiness sealed within it. The voice that drove the expedition mad was the voice of promathia. After the madness, raogrimm is scored by odin with his usual deal.

Raogrimm got his power and army from odin without shattering his protocrystal. No one in vana’diel knew the 5th verse of the lay of the immortals except odin and the other celestial avatars (sleeping gods). Now the shadowlord, raogrimm invades tavnazia for the first 4 verses. He takes emeline back to odin and gets her to sing the full lay of immortals. The lay of immortals not only wakes sleeping gods it brings them back to life.

Now here is where things get fuzzy. The shadowlord brought the magicite with him to odin and odin doesn’t exactly let his business customers go so easily. Did the shadowlord shatter the crystal to gain his freedom from odin? Or did the shadowlord collect the verses of the lay to resurrect promathia? Both were present when emeline sung.

But even with all said above this isn’t the first time odin has been awaken. So who woke odin thousands of years ago in teasures of aht urhgan?

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There is only one Odin. Odin shared his power with Raogrimm to sate his rage, thus turning him into the Shadow Lord. This doesn't mean that Odin is allied with the Shadow Lord, simply that he shared his power with someone capable of bringing death and destruction to the world. In the alternate WotG timeline, Lillith got her power from Odin as well, the very same Odin that granted power to the Shadow Lord. Again, he saw someone capable of bringing death and destruction to the world, and awarded her with dark powers, and the ability to call forth demons. He could care less who carries his power, only that the end result is a world filled with darkness and destruction.

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Spoiler if ya haven’t won your wotg missions beware---------




The reason it’s confusing is that ya have a real world and a dream world. Both worlds have shadowlords. The difference is lilith made a deal with odin to win vs her shadowlord who won his crystal war. If both worlds have a shadowlord, then both worlds must have an odin as well. One is real and the other is a dream. That’s the debate. If there is only one odin, did he say and do the same exact thing in both worlds? The only official thing is there are doubles of the terrestrial avatars because they are tied into the world they exist in.

Well quite disappointed looking at the Caith Sith post, hope there will be some adjustments down the line and given a merit bloodpact.

disappointed? it's a utility Avatar, if the accuracy is good on Eerie Eye this could be a game changer for SMN. Though SE would probably let NMs just resist it. ARISEGA as AF pact could be the saving grace of a botched BCNM or whatever. we don't even know Holy ?'s Potency for us, so it might be a nice AoE Nuke for Highlvl, we were still missing something like that. Having the Ability of Reraise II without /SCH and /WHM gives us all the more reason to sub /RDM for soloing things (or more exotic subs like /WAR or /SAM for meleeing *yikes i said meleeing shame on me*). AND they didn't tell us what Favor Cait will get yet. It may be something good like regain. then we would be quite a good support and actually be considered: Attack bonus(Ifrit), Hastega(Garuda) + Regain and Silence/Amnesia sounds pretty nice on paper (but that's where sadly the problems start: most things SE add sound good on paper).

Cait Sith looks so much worse than I ever could have imagined. Hats off, SE. You really outdid yourself this time.

The Amnesia effect isn't going to land on anything significant (or if it does, it'll be patched quickly). The only thing the avatar brings to the table is another source of AoE damage with Level ? Holy. I hope it at least has TH or something. Sheeet.

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Originally Posted by Mnejing

Well quite disappointed looking at the Caith Sith post, hope there will be some adjustments down the line and given a merit bloodpact.

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I too am slightly disappointed, but She will never be given a merit BP.

However.
It looks like she's in a 75-era state...
Meaning... She's unfinished.
Diabolos and Fenrir both gained "merit equivalent BPs"...
S0...
Here's hoping she'll get 1-2 more BPs later...
(Cause these at 99 aren't really gonna cut it)

Also: Does she have a favor? >_> if not....... Then she is REALLY unfinished.

whining, whining, and even more whining... We didn't need another Garuda/Ifrit/Ramuh, Cait Sith gives us things we didn't have before, and instead of being thankful for more utility spells, we Summoner's again just whine, disgusting, sry for the rant, but really, what did you expect? An Avatar to overshadow all the others? yeah right...

Wow...... I mean I'm happy we are getting a new avatar but I don't think SE understood us when we said we wanted a light based DD avatar. While attributes and avatar favor are important features that could make or break her I think they should spend more time making her into the light version of fenrir. Also it doesn't seem very avatar like to have so many common spells like Raise II and Reraise II they should have combined those two spells and made a single bloodpact. In addition, she's made as a level 75 avatar instead of a level 99 avatar she really needs alot of work perhaps they should hold her till summer 2014 to make her more on par with the other avatars. Otherwise Carbuncle will still be our avatar of choice when we want anything light based.

Overall, I couldn't be happier with Cait Sith. Please keep in mind that getting new avatars doesn't necessarily mean becoming more powerful. The greatest thing that a new avatar gives us is more versatility, which is what our job is all about. Besides, why would anyone expect to get awesomely powerful blood pacts from Cait Sith? He/She (I forget) doesn't look anything like a powerhouse. In a fight between Cait and Carbie, id put money on Carbie.

Altana's Favor: Awesome support AF. This is perfect doing things like saving failed Yumcax runs. With enough elixirs and smn/glyphic horn augment, you could cast this 5 times before AF wears.
Raise 2/Reraise 2: These aren't affected by weakness. You'll be able to raise people every 38 seconds if you're weakened, which is also great for helping save runs. This also allows non /sch and /whm access to reraise.

Regal Scratch: stock level 1 phys BP, nothing special here
Mewing Lullaby: This is the first rage pact that inflicts sleep! Now, if you want to sleep a group of mobs and also debuff them (e.g. with Diamond Storm, or Lunar Roar) you can!
Eerie Eye: This has great potential, as it's possibly (i thought there was some item that inflicted amnesia; could be wrong) the first way for the player to inflict amnesia, which is huge! I just hope it doesn't have the accuracy of Pavor Nocturnus.
Level ? Holy: This is the second aoe damage non-AF blood pact that we'll get (the first and only previously being Thunderspark, which was given to us at a very low level). It's about time that we got an updated damaging aoe BP. Think of how much more powerful it will be than Thunderspark. Imagine using this against a large group of mobs along with astral conduit; it would be like giving a black mage access to chainspell and having him spam thundaja!