ATTN DEVS: WE WANT NEW WEAPONS FOR 99 NOT RELICS AND MYTHICS

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Originally Posted by Michaeluk

Why don't you fuck off. I've been saying this since the first relic threads popped up when the forums first came up you fool. Another no mark scrub who couldn't make a relic so has to try to rubbish other peoples achievements thats all you are.

Tell you what, when you come and try to take my keyboard I'm going to tell it like it is. And i couldnt care less about people with relics and that goes for anyone who thinks they are superior to everyone who didn't waste countless hours on a weapon that was to become outdated.

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Originally Posted by Neofire

Tell you what, when you come and try to take my keyboard I'm going to tell it like it is. And i couldnt care less about people with relics and that goes for anyone who thinks they are superior to everyone who didn't waste countless hours on a weapon that was to become outdated.

I think i spy a e-thug in the makeing.

Support new system

Out with the old in with the new.. at least till lvl 99.. then stop ;p

Obtaining a relic has never been a goal of mine, and I've been playing since the NA ps2 release. Over those years I've seen plenty of dirty underhanded schemes of greedy asshole's who will throw anyone under the bus to further their relic dreams. Seen my fair share of people who bought hordes of gil for their multiple relics yet still fail to use them or gear their jobs properly. While those people are retarded, and highly annoying they don't represent the entire relic community.

I've also seen dedicated players who know their jobs. Who have completed relics over time fairly, and justly the way the developers intended, and while I still had no aspirations to do this myself.... My hat is off to those people for their perseverance. I have zero jealousy, and/or a problem with their relic marginally out performing my empy at 99 when things start to shake out, and become balanced.

Long term achievements used to mean something in this game. Leveling your job from 1-75 used to be an achievement. While Abyssea has been a breath of fresh air in many ways it has also caused an influx of whiny, no attention span having, instant gratifiers. That used to be the difference between FFXI, and Wow. The fact that those lines are being blurred nowadays has caused a significant portion of the userbase to lose interest.

If that sort of behavior is encouraged for 91-99 even these whiny little snot nosed brats will become jaded, and burnt out once they plow thru everything the game has to offer at a previously unheard of rate. Here's to hoping SE puts an end to this instant gratification sense of entitlement Abyssea has created when they roll out the 91-99 content.

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Originally Posted by Bahamut

Do you remember how hard it was getting people to help you get your AF 1 set of gear the first time around? It was bloody hard. Then at 75 all of that gear became second rate to wear, making its way to macro'd use because AF2 and +1 gear was the norm for lvl 75.

"If I had difficulty, everyone did." Just because you had a hard time, doesn't immediately validate the premise that everyone did. Then you follow an open premise that goes nowhere. You make no inference either way when you state the AF1 gear becoming obsolete.

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Originally Posted by Bahamut

Relics by far was the most expensive, cut throat, drama, and painful thing in the game to get. Was it a faiir value of time compared to reward? Most definatly not. Even back in the early days of FFXI it wasnt worth (time spent = reward) getting because of the cost, and all that drama that surrounded getting one. But some people thought, since they want to have the best of the best gear, they would bow before the SE devs and prove they could get one. Your reward was you got to walk around with the best weapon in the entire game while you were 75.

Poisoning the well... Telling the reader the expected outcome before they had a chance to come up with their own opinions. Typically used by control freaks to block discussion before it happens. The first flaw in this: You've stated yourself that you don't have a relic. Yet you speak with the voice of experience. You do not have any personal knowledge of the trials and triumphs one experiences getting a relic. And you cannot infer it was one way or another if either you selectively listen to only one side or only hear about the one side. It's like the guy that "always complains about his job", because when his job is going well, there's nothing to complain about.

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Originally Posted by Bahamut

The level cap was not raised for well over 8 years. Which is very rare for any mmo to not have a level increase in that amount of time. You were able to run around a game being the best of the best for that long depending on how early after release you got it. You had atleast a years warning that the level increase to 99 was going to happen. So if you chose to get your relic during that time, you had a fair warning that your weapon was going to be obsolete in one year, and you should try for it at your own risk.

Failed argument again, assumed premise: "You knew the level cap was increasing, therefore you knew your weapon would be obsolete." Did you forget that they also assured us that relics would remain the best weapon? I wouldn't assume they would be considering the drastic change, but i most definitely wouldn't assume the inverse. Absence of one premise does not prove the existence of the another.

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Originally Posted by Bahamut

Farming for O-hat was a pain in the butt. It would usually take days to get, then you had to get someone to craft your eyeballs, and an entire alliance to help you kill a monster for it. It was a pain in the butt to get everyone together to do it, but those who decided that they wanted to be the best of the best for head gear, went through all that trouble just to get the O-hat. Thier reward was being able to have the best head gear in the game for as long as they were 75.

The list could go on with every item that SE said lets make the (time spent = reward) so far out that it wasnt worth the time spent. SE did this with almost every aspect of the FFXI game. emp hairpin, lizzy boots, back in the day or when gil sellers would farm your sky spawn items making it weeks for average shells to obtain.

So it's not just relics, and finally the first, "floating", paragraph is brought into context. Your view on this is so far, judging by your use of absolutes: "Everything that takes effort to get in FFXI is unrewarding." I think the real problem here is that you dissociate accomplishment from reward. Since you play WoW Might I point out the Whale Shark as a conceptual model? A monster that takes a ridiculous about of manpower to take down for what could be best described as an insult for the reward. I've killed nearly every NM in this game, and rarely if ever for the drops. I wanted to do it for the sake of doing it.

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Originally Posted by Bahamut

Things were not fun all the time to get and I really do feel your pain if you did not buy gil or step on people to get these items. I think what every relic holder should be happy about, is that these days of timespent does not equal reward are over and happy weapons like emps exist. That xp got easier to obtain. That people can have more haste easier now. That more people can be good geared and better hitting without spending years to get to this point.

Appealing to compassion late in the game. You're pandering and back pedaling in the face of conflicting information. You said originally all relic holders are mean selfish people that back-stab and step on everyone to get what they want basically, now you're changing your tune mid fight? And you're inferring by association that peopel are then not screwing each other to get empyreans? There's people boasting about the bots they used to get claims, stealing pops, using programs to see the ??? before it pops, etc. And you think that's "better"? By no means do I include everyone that got an Empyrean into that, for it really is a minority, as was the minority of relic holders being back-stabbing greedy people.

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Originally Posted by Bahamut

If SE decides tommarow to make the best lvl 99 weapon in game accessable to everyone with only 1 or 2 months of farming mobs, whats so wrong with that? Why wouldnt you be happy that everyone in the game is happy and can help you fight things and missions with great weapons and gear? Do you have to be the only people who are better then everyone else based on an old system of time spent does not equal reward system? Why wouldnt you be happy that everyone in a shell is rewarded as euqally as you are?

If you want to take relics and say because of time spent wasnt worth the reward and apply it to experience points, well then by all fairness I should be asking SE to give me Ten Jobs for free because I leveled one Job to max lvl the slow time spent way.

I'm glad we moved past these days where time spent did not equal the reward and moving to a more time spent = the reward. I do not feel the need to ask for my time spent in those days to be rewarded in the days that are now going to be much much more worth time spent = reward.

Are you also forgetting the concept: "Maybe it's too easy" ?
Is the 'Reward to Work' ratio really balanced in this case? Would people be willing to work harder for the Empyreans? Would it be "Worth the effort" if all you had to do was talk to the moogle at start and get one, free of charge? No I am not asking 'straw man' arguments, it's legitimate to bracket the concept to define "reasonable". In short, I would say personally, the pendulum had swung so far to the other side, and thing are still imbalanced, just in the more favorable way. Am I angry? No, I like getting gear, but what I liked more was the challenges and the accomplishments, and those are lacking slightly.

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Originally Posted by Bahamut

Why wouldnt you be happy that everyone in the game is happy and can help you fight things and missions with great weapons and gear?

I'll let you answer that, you already did, it was a long time ago but I think I can find the quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bahamut

Do you remember how hard it was getting people to help you get your AF 1 set of gear the first time around? It was bloody hard. Then at 75 all of that gear became second rate to wear, making its way to macro'd use because AF2 and +1 gear was the norm for lvl 75.

You're arguing both sides of the coin. I thought you were trolling because you did that in nearly every post, now I know otherwise. No one argues like this without either being completely incompetent or a troll. "I hate vanilla ice cream! But only when it's not vanilla ice cream! And only then do I hate it if it is!"

I've helped several people get their Empyreans, Relics, O-Hats, etc. And the reason why as I have stated before is because of the sense of accomplishment. More-so it's because it's a group effort. I am happy to see other people get their stuff. A LOT of people are like me, I dare say, the majority are. These people that you talk about being stomped on and what-not? Do you know a lot of them just want to help? That a lot of them really don't care about having a relic? That a lot of them are there for the adventure? Or they just want to help out that guy that's always helping everyone? Maybe you've been on the outside looking in too often. Judging by how you come off here, you're probably even avoided. I can understand why you feel these group efforts are hard and unrewarding, because for you integrating is the hardest part. You have no sense of community in th classic definition, and you neither hear nor listen; you only care about the words coming out of your mouth. Stop being so mean-spirited, combative, aggressive, repulsive, and instead be more inquisitive, supportive, communicative, and you will find a lot of these Effort to Reward ratios are VERY rewarding.

Can you say that any relic horn owner is really "selfish"? C'mon... Do you realize that relics help other people too? They make getting gear for other people easier.

So again, your view is narrow and Nihilistic, and an insult to most everyone that has to read your propaganda. You're not "fighting for the little guy" you're insulting their intelligence by assuming "they're the little guy".

I just reread the title, why does it have "we want" in it? anyone view the tag for this thread? I just noticed it

it is a troll thread.

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Originally Posted by TearValerin

As a relic drk, you should be shutting the OP up with his bs claims.

I know they are fixing them now, hence why I have stopped posting nearly all together, but whats funny is he continuely posts junk. After the first 50 or so posts it gets annoying, wish I could filter out him.

This thread seems reasonable enough to me.. [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]
Many people do want an entirely new system and not be chained to old content like dynamis or salvage

I vote for a new system.. new endgame content.. down with dynamis

Even if I agreed with the OP, and maybe I do, posting pretty much the same topic thread time after time would make me want to disagree with anything he said.

Just as a reminder to those who think relics are unobtainable. Dynamis is being reworked to a zone you can work with as a party. Declaring relics unobtainable in the current state of the game, might be true for you at this moment, but the future patch may change that. Once that happens, I will be interested to see how many people will still be making the argument that they don't want relics any more. It is a ways off, but they have at least proclaimed the intention.