Fostering Skillful Play

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Originally Posted by Jerbob

I would just like to point out that some people are still desperately waiting for SE to fix the macroing system. It's not really relevant whether there are third party tools or not - not everyone can use third party tools, and not everyone WILL use them, even if they can. I don't want to turn this into a debate about such things, but please be aware that, even if a macroing fix would not directly benefit you, it has the potential to massively enhance many players' enjoyment of the game. Surely that is something positive?

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There is a massive discussion going on in the Japanese forums right now on that very matter. As is the problem with inventory space.

That's really good to hear, actually, thanks. :)

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Originally Posted by Prrsha

As is the problem with inventory space.

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Go, Japanese FFXI-players, go! My hopes and dreams rest upon your dorky shoulders! Imagine 100 inventory slots as a ten-year-old girl with pig-tails and PURSUE THAT DREAM! Fight for it! Go!

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Go, Japanese FFXI-players, go! My hopes and dreams rest upon your dorky shoulders! Imagine 100 inventory slots as a ten-year-old girl with pig-tails and PURSUE THAT DREAM! Fight for it! Go!

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It's more about having more macro slots, more then anything. Matsui is saying that is not in the near agenda but is being looked into for later.

PS Is one of the dogs in your sig from Mega Man 3 btw? :3

Edit: double post

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Originally Posted by Riggs

o god please no clickable UI, if i wanted that crap i'de be playing 14

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You don't have to use it if you don't like it. The standard UI will still be available, and it's PC only. It's something people have been asking for for a long time.

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Originally Posted by Prrsha

It's more about having more macro slots, more then anything. Matsui is saying that is not in the near agenda but is being looked into for later.

PS Is one of the dogs in your sig from Mega Man 3 btw? :3

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That's understandable. People who have found a way to cope with the current macro system can't come right out and make an argument like, "It isn't possible to use a third party program to fix the issues I have with inventory space, so please prioritize that if you have to pick a difficult issue to wrestle with." Looking at FFXI right out of the box, the six-line macros are the most ridiculous part of the interface.

Yeah, the mechanical dog towards the middle is Rush. Treble, however, is absent.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

I would be interested to know what is behind this. Assuming that the developers are aware at this point that a huge percentage of the population already have access to unlimited lines in their macros...

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This is the infuriating thing, pretty much anyone playing knows how to cheat to get a macro system that works very well, but SE continue their ostrich-like stance on the matter.

Can there be more details on how Fostering Skillful Play will be done? I felt that was lost when Aht Urhgan came out. Some of the new nms that came after that was interesting as there is a few of them that could qualify as Fostering skillful play but overall I feel that was lost when AU and beyond came out. Everyone and their mother have emps and relics and jsut plows though everything. Anything that is remotely "hard" revloves around "zerging"

Then there is the problem of the stuff that is challenging does not give reward equal to effort.

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Originally Posted by Jerbob

I would just like to point out that some people are still desperately waiting for SE to fix the macroing system. It's not really relevant whether there are third party tools or not - not everyone can use third party tools, and not everyone WILL use them, even if they can. I don't want to turn this into a debate about such things, but please be aware that, even if a macroing fix would not directly benefit you, it has the potential to massively enhance many players' enjoyment of the game. Surely that is something positive?

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I'd like to think about it this way. We have third-party systems that have become effective parts of the game- not so much as "hacks", but simply as quality of life upgrades- "windower" programs being a biggie, extended macroing systems another. If they're officially tolerated, then the next step should be finding ways to make them intergrated with FFXI in ways that both the dev team and players would find appealing. That this would also mean those 3PP's no longer worry so much about being broken repeatedly with updates.

Alternatively, take what IS acceptable from these programs and intergrate it, then simply watch the game data. There are things that extended macroability make doable that no person using the basic UI could manage. Note that in the process, you'd also have to redo a lot of higher-end mobs that have been balanced against players who commonly use said programs.

We live in an interesting world in Vana'diel- where PC players have always had a bit of an advantage due to the ease of client-side customization, even if such actions are against the TOS, they're often effectively undetectable in a direct fashion.

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Originally Posted by Rustic

I'd like to think about it this way. We have third-party systems that have become effective parts of the game- not so much as "hacks", but simply as quality of life upgrades- "windower" programs being a biggie, extended macroing systems another. If they're officially tolerated, then the next step should be finding ways to make them intergrated with FFXI in ways that both the dev team and players would find appealing. That this would also mean those 3PP's no longer worry so much about being broken repeatedly with updates.

Alternatively, take what IS acceptable from these programs and intergrate it, then simply watch the game data. There are things that extended macroability make doable that no person using the basic UI could manage. Note that in the process, you'd also have to redo a lot of higher-end mobs that have been balanced against players who commonly use said programs.

We live in an interesting world in Vana'diel- where PC players have always had a bit of an advantage due to the ease of client-side customization, even if such actions are against the TOS, they're often effectively undetectable in a direct fashion.

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It would be wonderful if SE would take these things on board and integrate them, certainly. I would take issue with the idea that they are simply a quality of life addition, though - as you've said, they have a direct impact on a player's capabilities and so represent something quite different to something like the official windowing program or something like dat modding a piece of gear that you find repulsive.