It took me 2 weeks to finish Neo Nyzul for my mule. If you're not bad at FFXI, the event doesn't revolve around luck, and you finish it rather quickly. Getting 1 piece of gear a month is just pathetic. Neo Nyzul has an amazing effort to reward ratio. Two weeks, 10-15~ hours, 8 awesome pieces of gear. How is that even remotely bad for FFXI or any other MMO? I have said this repeatedly, and now demonstrated it in video repeatedly. Now stop calling it luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
NEO Nyzul 2.0
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09-07-2012, 08:14 AMwish12oz
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09-07-2012, 10:00 AMDemon6324236Not going to stop calling it luck when every bit of it yells luck in your face and skill simply mitigates it. You cant say that NNI isn't luck based on a level, because everything in the event is random from when you start. Floor jumps, objectives, mobs, layouts, pathos, size of floor, gears, all are nice and unpredictable. The amount of preparation, and the skill/communication of players, makes a dent in the luck factor, however it doesn't stop it, bad jumps, floors, and pathos, will always be the cause of losses given they are bad enough. Skilled group can go 20 jumps of 4 on average, and lose, other group can go do 15 jumps of 7 on average, reach floor 100, but WS pathos and 1 minute remaining isn't quite enough to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by wish12oz
In either case the month long for 1 piece is off of the idea of doing 25 runs of floor 80 for a single 100 piece, which is much to long. Doing that is the only progressive style of rewards in NNI, as doing that is the only way you are nearly guaranteed some progress to getting a piece of gear, however if you lose trying to get to 100, there is no progress, only a loss, and when you try 100 more times, if you still don't make it to 100, there is still no more or less progress for a piece of gear.
Abyssea had progression for everything you did, Emps being a good example being that it always gave 1 item, with a chance at 2, you never killed a NM for an Emp and got nothing for it. This event is much more limiting on time, and much less rewarding for effort, as if you do not go all the way, you either wait a month for 1 piece of gear or you get nothing at all for attempting to make it to 100, and failing. -
09-07-2012, 09:10 PMCymminaBecause EQ was totally the only MMOG on the market at the time? If you ask me, FFXI was designed by someone who had the concept of MMOGs described to them and they went ahead and made one based off of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel
Good for your mule? The only videos I've seen you post were from the perspective of a character that mills a round at the start, who's only job is to cast buffs and use the Transfer. I suppose your idea of how easy it is would be pretty skewed if you're doing the easy job.Quote:
Originally Posted by wish12oz
I don't know how you can call a system that can potentially give you 6 2-floor jumps in a single run anything but luck based. We had such a run just last week with a few 3-floor jumps thrown in for good measure. Guess what? We didn't win.
People who cheat their asses off don't even have a 100% win rate.
They clearly didn't intend for people to win that often, otherwise they wouldn't have given you a guaranteed item of your choice for winning. -
09-08-2012, 04:56 AMwish12ozThis is all I see when I read your posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
Math says if you clear XX number of floors you win X% of the time. That's how this event works. Suck less, get a higher floor clear average, finish the event faster. If anything this event is skill and gear driven.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymmina
Look more, I posted 4 or 5 different runs, this one being the best since I finally managed to learn movie maker enough to not delete the audio and cut videos correctly, and its not sped up, and blah blah blah. I just suggest watching this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by wish12oz
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09-08-2012, 05:51 AMDemon6324236People go 1/1 on bodies in VW, others go 1/1000 on bodies in VW, % does not always mean it will definitely happen that much. You can read what you want, I know what the event is, its common sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by wish12oz
I myself haven't done NNI recently because I am making a new static with better people, and have been taking the time to make sure we have the right gear to get it done as best we can. In either case it has nothing to do with my complaint, or statement on what it is, I simply tell it as I see it, and sorry, but when everything from start to finish is a roll of a die, luck is involved.
As I said, skill & gear mitigate the luck, but a group of skilled and geared players can still average 4 floor jumps, in a 20 jump run, and lose. The same with that group that jumps only 15 times, hits floor 100, and then gets WS Pathos, with only 1 minute or less remaining and ends up timing out. Its luck, good or bad, either way, luck. -
09-08-2012, 07:28 AMNawesemo
.......... Yeah, this thread wreaks of spite....
Co.grats on the clears. -
09-08-2012, 09:00 AMwish12ozThere's nothing you can do to directly change the drop rate in VW and make it drop what you want 100% of the time. The difference with Neo Nyzul is that once you win, you get the item you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
If there was an option in VW like, kill this mob in under 2 minutes and everyone gets a drop of their choice, it would be skill based just like Neo Nyzul is.
Luck is not involved when you look at the big picture. If you can clear 20 floors a run, that means you will win 40%~ and lose 60%~ It's not luck that you do 100 runs you will have won around 40 and lost around 60. Luck would be if you won 60 or lost 80. Unfortunately for you that doesn't happen. It's expected that you lose 60% of the runs. So it's not luck that keeps you from winning every single run, it's the expected result. Expected results are not luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
However, if you gear better, bring better jobs, work better as a team with your group, use voice chat, etc. You can directly impact the amount of time it takes to finish this event by substantially increasing your average # of floor clears per run, which increases your win percentage. No amount of luck in the world would give a group of people who clear 15 floors/run my groups win rate when we're in the 22~ range.
Again, you're only suppose to win 40%~ of the runs at 20 floors. You think those other 60% of runs are just going to stop you when you reach 100 and tell you that you're not allowed to win? No. Theyre going to give you crap jumps and crap objectives the whole run. It's not luck because it's something that is expected to happen, 60% of the time. When it occurs more or less often than this, it would be luck. Unfortunately for you, by the time you finish getting 15/15 in Neo Nyzul your average win percentage will be exactly what the predicted estimate will be. So you can't call it luck. I don't know how many more ways I can say this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
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09-08-2012, 10:44 AMFupafighter
I think he still isn't winning lol. This is the guy that wants to bring red mage to nyzle. ANd red mage can keep on par with damage with a blue mage. Kaerin is right. I'm a prime example. I went with a group that knows what they're doing, and they do excellent at it, and they win. I went with my other 3 nyzle groups, and let's just say, it cannot be done with the way they play. It's not luck, it's skill. Luck is only a part of how the floors jump, as expected. Learn how to gear your jobs, hope to avoid order lamps if you are like me and play xbox, and hope to win. Keep trying and get better gear to compensate until you get your nyzle gear.
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09-08-2012, 11:29 AMAfaniaLuck based for NNI doesn't mean it's "bad", considering everything in MMO, or at least everything in FFXI are 99% luck based.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
If you don't like luck based, then you may as well not play an MMO.
Say if 17 floor jump has 30% chance to win, and it's possible to do 100 17 floor jump run and still didn't hit F100 cuz you're extremely unlucky and get nothing, that's just same as doing dyna-xarc for 40 times and no RDM hat/THF hands drop and get nothing, or doing salvage 150 times and can't get that bee NM to pop from rampart, or killing HQ behemoth for 100 times and no Dring drop. NNI is not the only event that you get nothing when you have bad luck, so does VW, salvage, dyna, HNM, legion, limbus, Ein, and every single event that involved drop or nothing.
Does that means you make "no progress" when it doesn't drop? I'd say no, since every run you attempted that doesn't drop, you should treat it as an investment for a chance to get it. If you can't view it this way, then you may as well not to play drop based MMO since you will feel bad if it doesn't drop and you get nothing.
If the 17 floor jump has 30% win rate, then avg every 3 17 floor jump run you will get an 100. If Qilin dagger has 0.1% of drop rate, than avg 1000 Qilin kill can get you the dagger. So your goal is to do it as many times as possible. That's same as doing abyssea X amount of time to get the empy. Except the difference is you can't see your "progress" when your item doesn't drop. But every no drop run, it should be treated as a progress too. The difference between an empy farm and doing NNI for F100 gear is really only visible difference and that's it.
If you don't like invisible progress, doesn't like to invest a run for no drop, then all I can say is majority of game content in this game probably isn't for you, and you may as well play other MMO or just do Abyssea only. And gl finding a MMO that has 0 luck factor in it. Last time I checked, majority of popular MMO/RPGs are still luck based for everything. -
09-08-2012, 11:56 AMsaevelMost of the "skill" involved is communication and coordination. Once your past that it's down to pure luck on how many 2~3 jump floors you get, or how stupid your objectives are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fupafighter
Wish is talking out their 5th point of contact, he's the pole SCH, the one without secret ninja magic. Without secret ninja magic your talking less then 5% win rate, heck I'd say somewhere in the 1~2% win rate. Many floors are too big and running around with powder boots won't much help due to their activation time. When your talking ~80s or less average per floor, your not winning unless you get absolutely no c8ck blocks along the way.
So now only do you need a "perfect" run where you get nothing but 6+ jumps, you also need to not hit more then 1 floor boss while also not getting order lamps or any large floors.
... Yeah that ~could~ happen in theory. In all my NNI time I haven't seen it happen once, secret ninja magic just allows you to sustain a few c*ck blocks without blowing your run.