Kill the PS2 limitations end of the Dark Ages Era

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hordecore

PS2 should be recycled all over the world and make something more useful

---

Like arsenic plants.

You people really need to go visit the ToAU areas... I mean really... those are some impressive looking environments.

Of course, why AREN'T you drawn to these impressive looking areas? Oh yeah... they'res not much to do there. And just cuz it's pretty doesn't mean it makes it fun.

Someone close this dumb thread... I mean if you have some common sense you'll understand why this just does not matter. And if you don't you'll just do what I did and respond... ugh...

Thread is tl;dr so my idea was probably stated already.

Many, many years ago, a little MMO called Ultima Online did something to get people out of the "dark ages." People wouldn't buy expansions, and only had the base game. At one point, they decided to make a 3D client. This meant that they had to program for the original client, the client from the first expansion to the 3D client, and the 3D client.

What they ended up doing was sending a copy of the game's "second expansion" (I use the term loosely, because everyone had access to that addition.) and discontinuing support for the base game.

With systems like Steam and D2D, SE wouldn't be losing out on too much if they sent people who had a PS2 registration code to allow them to download the game. Just put out a warning about it, tell people to make sure they update their address and/or email in POL, and let them get a free copy of the newest collection.

They could do this on Xbox as well, but they'd have to put FFXI up on the Marketplace. If they wanted to do that, they'd have to make something that would let players choose which system they wanted to get their free download on. Maybe announce a date they end support, and if someone hasn't chosen by then, they get the option to choose what version they want, but can't get into POL.

And that's my opinion.

If they made this game look like FFxiv, i wouldnt be able to play it, cuz i dont have a super system. Bad idea man. The loss of PS2 support doesnt mean upgrade graphics, besides, transfering this games current graphic to look like FFxiv would cost way too much, and take way tooo much time, u wouldnt play FFxi again for like, a year or more. Remapping and building all these landscapes, man you lost your mind. Better not upgrade the graphics on this game, it already looks great as it is.

I have 1 account, I play it on the playstation, xbox or pc depending on where I am. Its the same information, all stored in the same place, doesnt matter which platform I run it from it all works fine. Some people dont understand this and continually refer to PS2 systems or xbox systems. Its the same thing people, all you are doing is talking about FFXI and why its not changing fast enough for you. Smaller populations equals less income equals less desire to change the game equals more pc users complaining

either way a minimum graphical update on FFXI for the PC and X360 would be nice, and just do the normal things for the PS2 Ver. of the game. can't improve much on it anyways, i mean aside from adding game content, they can't really polish much more the graphics on the PS2, even with clever programing or techniques or whatever is that they do.
still i like the PS2 graphics of the game, that's how i started playing this game since 2004, on a PS2 and old blurry TV lol . ^^

I find it interesting that the excuse is still PS2 limitations when they have explained that the servers basically tell the client your char data and what is going on, your client then changes this into graphics for you to see

the way I see it, the devs could infact give the PC/XB360 and possibly the PS3 a brand new client without ever effecting the PS2 and its limitations, that is why when the devs say PS2 limitations I just shrug it off because I really don't believe that is the truth, they could easily port FFXI to the FFXIV graphics engine for one and still use the same game mechanics

I think it would be nice to see them do something with that new graphics engine besides let it sit on a stale game that I highly doubt will ever truly be "good enough for the players" so why not use it for something that is active and being asked for?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by katz

I have 1 account, I play it on the playstation, xbox or pc depending on where I am. Its the same information, all stored in the same place, doesnt matter which platform I run it from it all works fine.

---

I understand this point entirely, as a player who registered two accounts using two different PC versions, upgraded one with an Xbox version, and plays each character on PC or Xbox as my needs demand. While I've completely negated my next point based on this knowledge, I'm sure there has to be some data that goes into what type of disc receives a code. I could be wrong though. I know there has to be data transferred between your system and SE's servers, because when an update goes through, it has to know what system to get the data for. I don't think it'd be farfetched for them to add extra code for your account to record what systems you log into.

If anything, maybe they could offer a free PC or Xbox copy of an earlier Vana'diel Collection on a sign-up basis (I'm thinking the 2007 version.).

Is there actually a recent publication out there that breaks down subscribers by platform? I'm being serious. I want to know if I somehow missed something or if people are just talking out of their asses when they say the majority of (group of players) are on PS2.

Last time I checked, over 2/3 of the JP player base is on PS2. So, unless SONY puts backwards compatibility back into the PS3 or a PS3 port is launched, we're kind of stuck. It would be economic suicide for SE to simply just drop PS2 support, as much as a lot of us would like to see that happen.

I'm sure it's been said before but the major limiting factor of the PS2 that keeps holding back a lot of stuff the devs could be doing, is the low RAM count of 256 MB. Not to mention the limited HDD space, which is basically why we haven't had a new expansion since WotG.

So unless some kind of compromise is made, we're either just going to continue as is (the likely scenario) or SE might throw us a bone and start making content exclusive to PC/360 users, which would tick off the PS2 base but might also motivate them to get with the times.

again, SE needs to create a version for the PS3, they could use the FFXIV engine for it with some sort of playonline wrap around for the messaging system then port it to the PC, the XB360 needs to keep POL viewer due to some agreement with Microsoft

and really this sounds more complicated than it is

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malacite

Last time I checked

---

last time you checked where? I can't seem to find this info anywhere, even in this year's census.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wildsprite

again, SE needs to create a version for the PS3, they could use the FFXIV engine for it

---

Dear Altana NO! Not that.. thing.

They should license the Gamebryo engine (Warhammer and Rift both run on it) or CryEngine (Aion uses it) or maybe even Unreal (Lineage II uses it) and build a new client, not inflict that horrible Crystal Tools abomination on us.

Crystal Tools has a 2006 feature set with 2011 hardware requirements. They'd do much better to license an engine like Gamebryo and build something that's both efficient and current.

Additionally, most licensed engines are very easy to port from PC to Xbox 360 and PS3 because optimized console versions of the core engine have already been created for those platforms by the licensor of the engine. I guarantee that if they had used Gamebryo or CryEngine for FFXIV porting it to the PS3 would have been far easier.

i still think that if they mixed ffxiv graphic with ffxi gameplay will produce the best MMO in the history

The problem isnt so much the PS2 system. it isnt as easy as just dropping the PS2, the game was build from the ground up off of it being able to run on the Ps2. They would have to completely re-work the whole game and that just isnt going to happen at this point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

Dear Altana NO! Not that.. thing.

They should license the Gamebryo engine (Warhammer and Rift both run on it) or CryEngine (Aion uses it) or maybe even Unreal (Lineage II uses it) and build a new client, not inflict that horrible Crystal Tools abomination on us.

---

or even Unity. There are shit ton of wonderful dev environments out there and it PAINS me to see companies waste time developing their own (shitty) tech.

fuck it atomic skull, let's get some community members with art, engineering, design and production experience then start our own FFXI! (with hookers and no ps2 support).

While I'd love to see enhanced graphics on this game I'd be more in support of dropping the PS2 for other reasons. Time and time again we are told we cannot have other things such as new designs for zones, gear or more/less annoying storage because of PS2 memory issues. From what I understand it is how the PS2's memory is coded? I remember other arguments much like this one having PS2 players come up saying their hard drive wasn't even close to full.

I'd kill for updated graphics, but I'd be happy with the same graphics just newly designed zones, gear and other functionalities that the PS2 currently limits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rog

Not to mention brand recognition.

I am sure i am not the only one who bought it for no reason other than the final fantasy label.

---

100% this...I remember when I first saw it on the shelf. I was just walking down the aisle shoppin' and out of the corner of my eye I saw the RoZ FFXI collection. All I could think was "holy crap theres an online final fantasy!?!"

I put off buying it for a week cause I KNEW if i did id lose the next couple months of my life, lol...never watched a review for it, never looked into how good it was, it said final fantasy on it so i threw down 50$ (FF was srs bzns).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malacite

Last time I checked...

---

Last time I saw any collected data on this, it was less then 6%.

But don't you love suffocating for inventory space? Or having hideously outdated textures? Or never, ever seeing a new zone again?

Also, I just realized my computer has 187.5 times more RAM than your system PS2 users. Stay free. Also, it's a better kind of RAM, too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

Last time I saw any collected data on this, it was less then 6%.

---

THANK YOU!

I'm tired of the ignorance around here. I'm tired that people continue to blame EVERYTHING on a console they don't know anything about. And I'm tired of people pulling facts out of their... uh nose... like "2/3rd of Japanese players stand on their head upside down when they play because gravity goes up on the other side of the planet." It amazes me how naive people are sometimes...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

Last time I saw any collected data on this, it was less then 6%.

---

Not disputing this because I pray to the Goddess that it's true or lower, but I would like to see a source if possible. =x

Yeah, if you cant provide a source, im calling BS.

And as explained, its not as simple as just dropping the PS2.

Is there a separate census I didn't see? Is it part of the the SE investor relations reports?

Well this is a touchy subject but regardless of graphical update or drop PS2 support, one of the reasons i like FFXI is because it doesn't need a powerful/expensive PC to run it, the xbox360 isn't to bad price wise , and well ps2 consoles(fat) and used HDD's are not that expensive or hard to find, at least the used HDD's, i seen some for 34 bucks or so. either way i rather have more content, and minimal graphical updates on the console/pc or the one that can run it, like the font and icon updates are nice addition, i think they going in the right direction but overall some people are hard to please.

the PS2 fat also has an issue, atleast the one in the US does, eventually the heat from the hard drive kills the laser in the DVD drive

they should have stuck with the Japanese PS2 fat design, the drive sits outside the PS2 and it would have just been easier to support in the long run

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Harubaru

Well this is a touchy subject but regardless of graphical update or drop PS2 support, one of the reasons i like FFXI is because it doesn't need a powerful/expensive PC to run it, the xbox360 isn't to bad price wise

---

CryEngine or Gambryo can run on PS3 and Xbox 360, and also on older PCs with the detail settings dialed back. It wouldn't matter if you had an older PC you'd still be able to run it. It wouldn't look as pretty but it would run just fine.

While I realize that this thread is a little dead, recently there was the survey to see what you play on. Hopefully SE will release the stats of it and move on from the PS2. I agree that the PS2 is dead and is limiting this game. I would LOVE to see the game get a major facelift and maybe relaunched since FF14 was such a disappointment. Guess we will see when the results come out.

I doubt we'll see a major graphics revamp in the game if the ps2 is dropped. In the many posts where people argue for ditching the ps2 the point is made that you can run this game on the cheapest laptop available today. Upgrading the graphics will not only leave the ps2 in the dust but also people playing on these older PCs and maybe the Xbox (I'm not sure what it's graphics capabilities are but reportedly lower than the ps3).

I just switched from ps2 to pc because I think dropping the ps2 is inevitable. Though having just gone through the experience I will say that SE makes the change much more difficult than it needs to be. The playonline website is full of outdated information on how to set up the game. Following the instructions on the website "may be causing more problems than it is fixing" according to a Tech Support GM on these forums. SE also states many times on their website that you must own all game discs to install FFXI on a PC. There is no downloadable version. Really? Also if you buy a new computer forget about any help from SE. I couldn't get the game to run and the response I got on the phone with SE was "the game can't be run on a 64 bit system" followed by "other players have figured out how to make it work. Check with them but we can't help you on this end". SE needs to update their information, educate their support staff, and just drop the PS2!!! It's clear they are going to do it. There are known issues that are getting worse that they refuse to acknowledge. They blame it on PS2 user's internet connection. If that's the case why can my PC on the same connection play cs without black screen and interact with NPC's without freezing. Stop lying to your customers and just drop it already!

Good posts never die!!

I'm running XI on a 64-bit PC. I think it just has to do with either registry errors or the type of OS you're using. Vista and 7 tend to mess up the installation of XI sometimes, more so with Steam.

I should have been more clear. I did get it working just fine. My point was that SE support saying essentially "we have no idea how to make it work, go ask other players" is absurd.

Sorry if I made no sense. I had surgery this morning and am still on some nice drugs!

Not supporting 64-bit operating systems in this day and age is absolutely absurd. Everything is moving towards 64-bit systems, not supporting them is simply inexcusable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cidbahamut

Not supporting 64-bit operating systems in this day and age is absolutely absurd. Everything is moving towards 64-bit systems, not supporting them is simply inexcusable.

---

So someone who wrote a windows 98 program 10 years ago should be supporting it now? Because that's what you're asking.

The game doesn't NEED to support 64-bit. It runs just fine on 64-bit windows without being a 64-bit program itself. You won't see the WoW64 layer going away anytime in the next several years, because even windows itself comes with software that isn't 64-bit (And still comes in a 32-bit version)

Only when 32-bit support is in danger of being dropped (and it won't be anytime soon, again) will 64-bit support be important.

As for FFXI itself, 64-bit support would do nothing for the game. It does not need to perform any complex mathematics or any of the other potential benefits. There's no point in recoding any feature of the game to use it as long as the 32-bit version remains supported.

Feynman, the problem you are most likely having is you did not download the updated installer that is compatible with windows Vista/7, which is happily provided by SE on their website. Their support staff told you it's not supported because it isn't. It's not because it won't work- it will. It just means "We don't want to deal with this because we didn't design the game for it. It might work or it might not, but we don't know and we can't help you if you try." However, the reason you are having problems is nothing to do with this- they just couldn't tell you that simply because of your OS. Download the updated playonline viewer from the official site, and you should be able to install it just fine. (Even later collections of the game do not seem to include the updated viewer installer)

I just think it's stupid for customer service to tell customers "no, we won't help you if you have a 64-bit processor". That's all.

You're really reading too much into this.

they don't make the download real obvious on the ffxi website, but its there and it works on all 7 of the windows 7 boxes I have set up. Turning off UAC seems to be a big help in getting any program to install right too. Stupid as it may seem.

Okay fellows, there's a lot of interesting information on this thread.
Some are facts, other "artifacts" of misleading information.

One of the people (in my opinion, if that matters at all) who has a good grasp of the problem is RAIST.

A lot of misinformation on the PS2 HDD here though.
What's binding Square-Enix with the partition size for FFXI (currently it's 1024MB for POL Viewer, 128MB for Tetra Master and 10240MB for Final Fantasy XI) is a contract with SONY for the partition size which they can't arbitrarily enlarge without prior authorization from SCEI (Sony Computer Entertainment Incorporated) due to the DNAS (Dynamic Network Authentication System) Digital Right Management/Protection system.

Additionally due to the "wrapper" characteristics of the game engine (already explained by RAIST) the XBOX360 and PC versions of FFXI while on "average" look better than what you get out of a PlayStation 2 console, cosmetically (about minor details like weather effects, lighting on objects and texturing) and on audio what you get out from a PS2 is more accurate to the original design of the game.

Best example is the moghouse window in Jeuno. The PC and XBOX360 one is completely glitched:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-W...3013382000.jpg <-PS2 version

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-M...3382000_PC.jpg <- PC version of same wall, Geforce GTX-280, 2048x2048 back buffer, 640x480 resolution on window

So I have a very decent pc which runs FFXI smooth yet I prefer playing in my PS2 for the very reasons outlined a few posts ago:

-Perfect weather effects
-No graphical glitches
-Perfect audio (Audio on the PS3 back compatibility to PS2 sucks so don't bother playing with that if you're a audio fanatic like me :P)
-Better response on UI and controls (keep out of crowded zones, easy to achieve)
-PC is 100% free for other tasks or even another game if you're bored waiting for stuff to happen

So distillation of vitriol against PS2 players help no one as it just causes nerdrage and PS2 players will keep playing on their low res boxes until no option is available OR their hardware fail on them.

I am sorry to inform that I have three working PS2 consoles, two being Japanese and one U.S. and I also have two spare harddrives in their respective boxes brand new. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oliveira

Okay fellows, there's a lot of interesting information on this thread.
Some are facts, other "artifacts" of misleading information.

One of the people (in my opinion, if that matters at all) who has a good grasp of the problem is RAIST.

A lot of misinformation on the PS2 HDD here though.
What's binding Square-Enix with the partition size for FFXI (currently it's 1024MB for POL Viewer, 128MB for Tetra Master and 10240MB for Final Fantasy XI) is a contract with SONY for the partition size which they can't arbitrarily enlarge without prior authorization from SCEI (Sony Computer Entertainment Incorporated) due to the DNAS (Dynamic Network Authentication System) Digital Right Management/Protection system.

Additionally due to the "wrapper" characteristics of the game engine (already explained by RAIST) the XBOX360 and PC versions of FFXI while on "average" look better than what you get out of a PlayStation 2 console, cosmetically (about minor details like weather effects, lighting on objects and texturing) and on audio what you get out from a PS2 is more accurate to the original design of the game.

Best example is the moghouse window in Jeuno. The PC and XBOX360 one is completely glitched:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-W...3013382000.jpg <-PS2 version

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-M...3382000_PC.jpg <- PC version of same wall, Geforce GTX-280, 2048x2048 back buffer, 640x480 resolution on window

So I have a very decent pc which runs FFXI smooth yet I prefer playing in my PS2 for the very reasons outlined a few posts ago:

-Perfect weather effects
-No graphical glitches
-Perfect audio (Audio on the PS3 back compatibility to PS2 sucks so don't bother playing with that if you're a audio fanatic like me :P)
-Better response on UI and controls (keep out of crowded zones, easy to achieve)
-PC is 100% free for other tasks or even another game if you're bored waiting for stuff to happen

So distillation of vitriol against PS2 players help no one as it just causes nerdrage and PS2 players will keep playing on their low res boxes until no option is available OR their hardware fail on them.

I am sorry to inform that I have three working PS2 consoles, two being Japanese and one U.S. and I also have two spare harddrives in their respective boxes brand new. :rolleyes:

---

So, there's still no real advantages of playing on a PS2, other than audio. K drop it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oliveira

-PC is 100% free for other tasks or even another game if you're bored waiting for stuff to happen

---

Oh, but even then, that's not necessary. I mean, I run TF2, PSO and FFXI altogether. And then I run a media player [music], chrome [browser], skype + msn [messenger, of course] at the same time.

So that's not really a big deal.

As above, and the graphical glitches in the PC version are trivial. The audio argument also doesn't hold much water. It's only more accurate if you're playing it out of the speakers on your TV. Even with the change to Sony's proprietary audio codec, once it's decrypted and output, it's the same audio data playing the same sound waves, unless there's some sort of serious flaw with the PC version of the codec.

The difference in input response time is imperceptible to humans (e.g. a matter of milliseconds). If you have high-end gaming input devices, those can negate that difference.

The stuff about the HDD is accurate, though I'm pretty sure that if they did enlarge the space allocated, you'd have to reinstall, and not everyone on the PS2 might be able to do that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alhanelem

The stuff about the HDD is accurate, though I'm pretty sure that if they did enlarge the space allocated, you'd have to reinstall, and not everyone on the PS2 might be able to do that.

---

As I stated on my post it's a matter of choice. Now about enlarging the partition the only limits are:

Partition is composed of chunks whose size is based on multiples of 128. Which means minimal size is 128MB and maximum size is the the size of the free space (sans SONY reserved areas) of the HDD .

Also they don't need to reinstall anything to enlarge a partition as it's just a matter of adding new "chunks". The FFXI partition in particular is composed of 1024MB chunks for the simple reason of granularity. It could be chunks of 4096MB if they wanted.

Also that partition system is called APA (Aligned Partition Allocation) due to it's characteristic of using "chunks". On top of that they use something called "PlayStation File System" or PFS for short. Linux-esque similar to ReiserFS.

It's easier to hate things you know nothing about, right ? :D